Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

drew_ · October 2001

Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html

johnnnyc · October 2001

Has anyone ever heard of them?

I found a set on the net fairly cheap - but little information about them. Are they durable, and do they look good?

thor8 · October 2001

Can you elaborate on the 400CDI, I guess what I mean is that I heard in this board that it will no be available in the U.S.

Incidentally when I went to the U.S GP in Indianapolis a green ML400 went by me on the Interstate, that is the second one I have seen on the road, I have noticed the engine has something like a high turbo whine, sounds very strong.

kenyee · October 2001

thor8:
Are you serious? I thought it couldn't survive on our fuel??
Drool....

Birger is in Belgium. They can get it there :-)

pox · October 2001

Ken Yee

Thanks for the pointer towards the M-Class Mailing List. I should go there and see what else I have been missing!

Jamie

I am sorry to hear that the window switch problem exists on the 2001 models as well. Maybe the 2002's will be different since I believe that they will have windows with the One-Step up and down feature.

John

Thanks for the tip on how you solved the MP3 problem. My friends too suggested that I purchase the Rio 500 along with a car kit. They know that I am mechanically challenged and that I would never even dream of trying to monkey around with any piece of electronic equipment!

Pox

lovemyclk · October 2001

Primarily for Thor8 and Johnnyc... I have now obtained the digital photos of our 1999 ML bumper problem and would like to post for review. Thoughts on the easiest way to do this?

Also, we have since replaced the '99 with a 2002 ML320 (M1, M2, Xenons, Bose, Sunroof) - Desert Silver/Java. Can't tell you how much we are enjoying this new vehicle. I can assure you as a long-time owner of the ML that the 2002 is several steps ahead of the '99. Many improvements that are apparent to the eyes (and ears) and many under the skin. Since this is my wife's car, she has the final say and is really pleased. Happy to offer any insight to anyone interested.

I'll also add that we were ready to cross-shop the ML, although we really liked the vehicle. MB and our prior dealer kept the monkey on our backs w.r.t. getting through the hassle of dealing with the manufacturing defect shown in the pictures I plan to post. We let them know that we understood the problem to be an anomoly and only wanted MB to provide assurance (via letter) that the vehicle was repaired to MB specs so we would not get dinged at resale/trade-in time. Quite an ordeal to get the letter, but my wife had lost confidence in the vehicle at that point.

Well, the final solution arrived in the form of a local dealer (and our former saleswoman). They made my wife "feel" important and treated her more than fairly on the trade-in. Also got the loaded 2002 for a great price. If anyone looking for an ML lives in or near Atlanta, I'd be happy to recommend this dealer/saleswoman.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but wanted to get this out. Any advice on posting pics of our bumper issues appreciated!

mark156 · October 2001

There is just no way I could have gotten mine for $1,000 over invoice. I got it for $2,100 over or $1,500 off list. People pay almost list for ML's at our hometown dealership.

M

stever · October 2001

Styling: Does function trump style?

raybear · October 2001

Bay Area, right?

kenyee · October 2001

Easiest thing to do is join one of the free web pictures services like www.webshots.com, upload them there and post a link to them.

itsui · October 2001

Does it fit the ML with third row seat?

drew_ · October 2001

Don't miss the weekly MB Tuesdays chat at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10pm Eastern! All MB fans/enthusists/owners/potential owners are welcome to participate. Hope to see you there!

Click on the link below to enter the chat at the times above. Note that the link to the chat is always near the top of this page, just under the discussion topic title:

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html

ometofu · October 2001

Don't bother... just order the seal yourself and upgrade them

neicey59 · October 2001

On the MBUSA website they list 91 octane as being the required octane for this model year-Why the discrepancy over the 2001 model? Everyone is saying their svc mgr has advised them to only use 93 octane...anyone got their manual handy?..what is the actual octane requirement for 2001?

Neicey

drew_ · October 2001

AFAIK, it has always been premium 91 octane for from '98 to '02 models (of course this differs if you live in a high altitude location like Colorado). You don't need anything more than that :-) I only use 91 octane for my own ML, nothing more, or less.

Drew
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birger · October 2001

Hi,

Rather reluctantly, I handed back the ML400CDI this morning (well, I didn't care too much about the color (designo cognac!)) after a longish test drive of some 135 miles.

My impressions are still a little mixed: Yesterday I wasn't overly impressed, but then ten miles isn't really enough to assess a vehicle.

The new HVAC system is a DEFINITE improvement over the preceding year's, but the chrome rings on the dials are IMHO a little too much.

The Bi-Xenons give a very impressive output - unfortunately the factory adjustment results in a nearly unuseable low beam, and adjustment requires tools I didn't have handy last night. On high beam, however, night driving is a true pleasure.

I've been used to big mirrors on my last four vehicles, and thus find the downsized ones on the 2002 ML's a drawback - and I didn't not any significant improvement in wind noise. But the auto function on the RH mirror when reversing is very neat.

The most significant difference between my present truck and this one is of course the engine. And boy, it's nice! It's also expensive, of course - but it might be worth it. Power, as much as you could reasonably wish for, anytime, and without much fuss. The way those two tons can transit from a 90 mph cruise to a quick pass at 110/115 mph has to be experienced.

The pleasant thing is that once you have digested the initial shock of some US$ 11,000, the added power doesn't eat you out of the house. Of course, fuel consumption figures on such short a drive with an engine only 1,000 miles old are not definitive, but considering that I was cruising at around 90 mph and could not resist some brief excursions beyond that (and some pedal-to-the-metal starts) I found that using 26.71 litres of diesel over 211.2 kilometres (in euro-speak 12.65 l/100 km) can be considered more than reasonable. Yet, last weekend driving back from Italy in the ML270CDI with now nearly 15K miles, restraining the speed to no more (but not much less either) than 80 mph, I got a mileage of 9,2 l/100 km. But then that wasn't much fun either ;-)

And the fuel gauge returned to normal sometime during the drive ;-)

I still really miss steering-wheel mounted radio controls, and didn't find that the new high-mounted tweeters made a a vast improvement to the sound, but these are details.

Now, do I go for it? I don't know - delivery will in any case not be until May/June 2002. Before deciding, I'll see if I can get a test drive in the X5 with the three-litre I-6 diesel, which is quite a bit less expensive - but also less powerful, spacious etc. Food for thought.....

Enjoy your day,
Birger

BTW: I don't quite get it why you should not be able to get the MB CDI's in the US or Canada. While the general diesel quality level in Europe might be better, we certainly also have variations, and nothing - also not the instruction manual - warns about this. Also, there is now arning about i.e. going to Eastern Europe, where diesel fuel is (literally!) dirt cheap. I suspect something political behind this - maybe Wolfgang, who seems to have vast information sources, can tell more?

bob259 · October 2001

I've been using Sunoco 93 Octane, because it's only 4 cents more per gallon ($1.55 Vs $1.51) and the engine seems to run smoother on it Vs the 91 octane. If it was more than 4 cents I'd stick with the 91, but for less then $1.00 per fill up I chose to go with the 93.

dwang0725 · October 2001

I haven't posted in a while as my 00 ML320 has been a delight. (knock on wood) I was reading the 4000+ posts in the last 4 months and I thought I could offer some help in the MP3 compatibility.
A solution to MP3 playback is the Duo Digisette. It's a tape shaped MP3 player that works as a stand alone player AND it can be slipped into the tape deck to listen to the MP3 songs stored on the player. All the functions of the cassette deck would still work. I don't have the player, but it seems like a very logical solution to the MP3 compatibility question. JAT

Dave

dwang0725 · October 2001

I'm coming up on my FSS A service in a few weeks and I was wondering if I should have the dealer change my fuel pump. It has not given me any problems but there is a very slight but noticeable high whining noise when the car is above 65 mph. There was also one occasion (ML had aboout 7000 miles on it at the time) where I was drving on a highway and had to stop for a toll. As I was approaching the toll and slowing down (5mph), the ML320 engine cut off and I coasted to the toll gate. I had the radio on so I didn't even notice it cutting off save for the christmas lights that lit up on my dashboard! Luckily, I was able to crank the engine right up and off I went. No other stalls or start problems since then. Could this incident and the whining noise be attributed to the fuel pump? Anyone? Thanks

Dave

rs64 · October 2001

I took my 2000 ML320 in for it's first A service a few weeks ago and they changed the pump & fuel lines w/o me even asking. So, you may want to mention it and have it replaced while it is there.

Also - my dealer used Castrol synthetic - not Mobil 1

kito2 · October 2001

It is interesting to see the pricing from different parts of the country. I have been looking for either an'01 or '02 ML320. In MN, my dealer is going about $3000 off MSRP and straight MSRP for '02s. Sounds like I should shop elsewhere if I decide on an '02.

ml320 · October 2001

Thanks for a great review. Diesel in the US? I guess it's a combination of very strict emmissions controls, lower quality fuel and maybe less demand since fuels are generally less expensive. This may change.

collection of some diesel fuel links etc

Wolfgang

lovemyclk · October 2001

Shots of our former '99 ML bumper. We now own a beautiful Desert Silver 2002 ML320. Don't expect to have the same problem! Hope I did this correctly!

http://community.webshots.com/album/23386394QQdHRPXosr

drew_ · October 2001

Yes, you did the linking perfectly. Thanks for sharing the pictures with us. Good luck with your new ML :-)

drew_ · October 2001

Regarding the MCS lid closing with the tape adaptor wire running out, if you position the wire properly you should not have any problems closing the lid. I tried it with mine and I didn't.

Hope this helps!

drew_ · October 2001

As it was mentioned in the MB chat last night, the MCS does not have an auxilary input. The COMAND system (in the MB cars anyway) does though, in the glovebox

drew_ · October 2001

As far as I know, the rear seat cover that people have been praising is only for the 2nd row. Can someone else confirm?

Drew
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pox · October 2001

Drew

Thanks for the information on running a wire through the MCS. I probably should just purchase a Rio 500 with a car adapter and see how it works.

Pox

sequoiasaurus · October 2001

Salesman called today to inform me that he had received "official" word that the factory tour is a no go for me during my delivery. However as mentioned before the off road track is driven by the new owner instead of a professional driver.

Thankfully the factory is only about a 4 hour drive for me so I will be able to go again if and when it opens back up to the public.

Also received word that in fact my new ML was built today! Happy Birthday! Wednesday is a good day right? Heard Mon's and Friday's are bad days for builds.

thor8 · October 2001

I was begining to doubt you, but you were true to your word. I have been looking at the pictures off and on today, very intently. Since I have done a good bit of welding in my life including Tig and Mig I have a basic understanding, in looking at the pictures very carefully, and you have to excuse me, all I have is a picture in my monitor, it seems like the problem was not corrosion but poor welding, is what we call a surface weld, no penetration and fusion of the metals, as a result corrosion took place under the surface weld, had it been a good weld, corrosion would have taken place on the surface of the weld as is usually the case with a good weld.

Now that takes me two the second part, that is P poor craftmanship, a weld can look good but be faulty, there are tests available, X rays and stress, but they are costly and slow and are usually reserved for critical aspects, like pressure wessels, aviation etc. A bad welder can pass a lot of bad work before he is detected in some cases, I will not speculate on that. I know that Mercedes does not make the frame but it subs it out, someone correct me on that if I am wrong, Drew? but I visited the assembly line twice and that is what I remember, could easely be a case of a subcontractor passing bad conponents, happens everyday, I did have my reservations about this U.S built ML business, but what the heck, is nothing that we can do about, standarts are falling every day everywhere, schools, hospitals, industry, art, morals, you name it.

Regardless as to who did the boo boo, the general is the one accountable for losing the battle, no one acuses the soldier on the trench, he should have seen to it, likewise MB should clamp down on this and they are ultimately responsible. Again this are dissapointing pictures, I am glad things resolved favorably.

Andrew

drew_ · October 2001

Indeed you are correct. The frame is built by a supplier using MBUSI-owned dies and is shipped using the just-in-time method. Ogihara is the name of the frame supplier. Ogihara's Alabama plant, built to supply MBUSI, operates almost around the clock and is expanding rapidly to meet MBUSI's increasing demand for product. According to my press information, Ogihara uses metal-stamping presses to produce the M-Class frame. The Company has five presses that cost more than $20 million dollars. These presses contain MBUSI-owned dies for stamping M-Class metal body parts. When MBUSI designers modify the M-Class body, Ogihara receives new dies and stores or destroys the old dies. Ogihara has made significant investments to try and keep pace with increases in MBUSI production.

Since they know that they are obligated to have parts available on-time and in-sequence, Ogihara tries to keep a day's worth of parts at its plant ready to be transported to MBUSI at any given time. Apparently Ogihara had originally planned to expand its operations and attract other automakers' business but supplying MBUSI has consumed all of its capacity.

Sounds to me like this case may be just a fluke. First time I have ever heard of it since the M-class came out! I do know that the ML's frame is specially heat treated for strength, and hence normal welding is not allowed as it changes the strength of the frame. The techs are taught what to do and how to do any alterations, and the limitations that they have.

Drew
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drew_ · October 2001

And Happy Birthday to your ML :-). Let us know about your factory delivery experience, and hopefully you'll have some factory delivery pictures to share, eh?

johnnnyc · October 2001

days for builds.

:-)

Kidding, obviously - great to hear it's ready and waiting! Wish I was only 4 hours from the factory... I'd *love* to have that tour sometime.

johnnnyc · October 2001

how long in advance of today did you know the build date of your car?

This has been the subject of much debate with my vehicle - the fact that I was told delivery would be pushed off a couple of weeks by the WTC attacks, and still don't have a firm date for either build or delivery.

I originally was told beginning of November; it was pushed off to Thanksgiving. No exact dates though.

I'm wondering if I should expect a solid date some time soon, or if I'm just going to get a call to come down and pick up my car.

itsui · October 2001

I cannot find any gas station has 93 octane at southern California. Seem like the higher rate is 91 octane

drew_ · October 2001

Over here, Esso only sells 92 octane. They don't carry 91 octane at all, so just 87, 89, and 92.

Drew
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thirayuth · October 2001

Does anyone knows that head lamps,out side mirrors and climate control of 02 model can be installed into 01ml320? Thanks

dwang0725 · October 2001

rs64,
What was the built date of your ML? My SA is telling me that my ML's built date was 8/00 and that it already has the updated fuel pump. He said that all ML's built after 5/00 has the newer fuel pump. He said the stall must have been caused by something else and they will solve the problem when I bring it in. Is this true? Does anyone know when the new fuel pumps made it's way into the ML? Drew? Thanks.

Dave

rs64 · October 2001

The car is at home, but I think 5/00 was the build date. We purchased it 10/00 but it had been on the dealer's lot for awhile.

stever · October 2001

Premium gasoline's rating (in California) will drop from 92 to 91 as MTBE is phased out. The switch started back in June at some stations.

Here's a link.

Steve
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rs64 · October 2001

Well, at least we will be able to drink the water now.

kenyee · October 2001

lovemyclk:
Glad MB stepped up to the plate on that one. I would have felt the same way your wife did.
What's the build date on it? Just wondering if others on that date were affected.

johnnyc:
You should have a production# when they booked your order. With that #, you can check on the build date. Your salesman should have called you one month before the build date to confirm your options. At the one month point, it will have a build date and you can't change options. At this point, you will also have a VIN assigned.

hhm1644 · October 2001

Just wondering if anyone has actually seen this green yet-I keep dropping into the dealer in hopes of seeing on any model before I decide if that's my next choice. I've hated most of the MB greens and especially this latest, "Aspen", as it had too much yellow in it.

What I'm hoping is that Everest is the color that you see on so many of both the previous generation Acura Legends. Just a deep black-green, with little metallic to interfere.

Info, anyone?

Also, I'm the one the dealer told to start using 87 octane fuel to manage the hesitation caused by the anti-knock sensor software- Who would've guessed, but it actually DOES WORK! If I were planning to keep the car past a couple years, I'd be pissed about using the lesser-quality fuel and damage to engine components, but since not, it's cheaper and it works. Go figure-it would still be nice if MB could actually fix the inherent problem and not have to resort to that kind of ridiculous recommendation.

Thanks.

johnnnyc · October 2001

That's the one thing I keep getting amazed at when I see people hitting the pumps.

The gasoline companies do their best to confuse you, calling one 'premium' and the other 'regular' (for those not native to the US, that's 93 and 87 octane, respectively).

Octane isn't a measure of quality in a fuel. Granted - some gas formulations come with extra 'detergents' in the premium gasoline to merit calling it that - but it's not an indication of how clean the gasoline is. It's a measure of just how effectively it will resist detonation.

Detonation is the enemy in a gasoline combustion engine. Basically - you've got an additional explosion happening within the cylinder - one being the expected one, coming from your spark plug - and the other, being detonation occurring from the gasoline and air mixture becoming unstable and catching fire. Octane measures just how resistant the fuel is to catching fire this way. The pings you hear are detonation.

No measure of gasoline quality there. Many car manufacturers design their cars to run on regular gasoline, 87 octane or equivalent, and if yours runs there without detonation, that's where you should run it.

johnnnyc · October 2001

I should check my bill of sale, right? That should have the order number on it.

sequoiasaurus · October 2001

Actually I stand corrected on the build date. Salesman just called back to say that it was actually built on Mon 10/15. The factory sent him the VIN yesterday which is when he called me to give me an update. He didn't notice the build date until today which is when he called back to give me another update and to inform me that we need to complete the paperwork sometime next week.

As far as the date given to me. On 8/31/01 my dealer faxed to me a "Factory Delivery Summary" which gave all the personal details of who was going to actually be at the factory during delivery. My address, travel info etc. It also shows the "off line date" and delivery schedule which includes the tour, off road experience and handover time. This form also came with a "Factory Tour Guidelines" sheet which is now obsolute b/c of the shutdown.

sequoiasaurus · October 2001

I suggest that you push a little harder for info from your salesman/dealer. They should know this info by now as well as build dates into the month of December.

I believe you're getting the run around. As mentioned before our vehicles are identical (which includes bose/M7) and there is no delay with that as of today.

sequoiasaurus · October 2001

Has anyone leased a 02 ML yet? If so if you don't mind sharing the particulars such as money factory, payment, downpayment etc.

Thanks

kenyee · October 2001

It's not an order#. It's a production#. The dealers get a list of production#s from MB. When you put a deposit down, you should get allocationed one of these production #s. It's something you should have asked for. You can then call and bug them about it since they can't allocate it to someone else :-)

gustavm · October 2001

Question (again...)

Does anybody know if it is feasible, having failed to order option package M2, to add the trip computer / power folding mirrors combination in the aftermarket, or by MB service dept.?

I would love to add the option to our '02 ML320, if possible.

Drew? Wolfgang?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-- Gustav

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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