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Comments
Stay tuned to find out if I have to eat my words about what great service I got from MB
I think it'd be cost prohibitive...
john:
Dealers are representatives of MB, but not all dealers or salesmen are alike.
I ordered mine a year in advance (got in line for next year's model); no production# in that case, but he told me how far down in line I was. When they got their first set of production#s, mine proactively called me to tell me what it was and an estimated build date. He then gave me a VIN# a month before it was built. When it was delayed for release, he also called me and let me know.
I get this feeling I'm being lied to - but I'm also paranoid I'll wait until I can see he's avoiding the question before I pass judgement.
The redesigned M-Class."
Just saw this TV ad for the first time, and like it.
What do others think?
Wolfgang
Driving it home, a two hour trip, the rear cargo lamp would flicker on and off. I pulled over to have a look and could see the switch was in the "on" position and the bulb resting against the lens.
Thinking this was an easy fix, I opened the hinged lens and the bulb fell out along with one side of each of the paired contact arms.
It's as if the metal was work hardened or made brittle from the heat of the bulb. There is no way that the metal, which should have a degree of springiness to facilitate bulb replacement have broken off at the formed corners.
I called the dealer and they will have a new lamp assembly waiting for me at the next service. I just wanted to give the group a heads up on this, I want to check the rest of my lamps, but maybe it's better left to the mechanic.
Is there a way to have all your lamps activate while in the vehicle, rather than operating each individually, similar to when you unlock and open the a door? I've checked the manual but can't find a thing.
brian
I got my ML at $35,800 in June with the M1, M7, BOSE, metallic paint, and power sunroof. I wish I had opted for a truck with the M2, however, the only ones available with the M2 option didn't have the 3rd seat (a must for those disney trips) and Mercedes wasn't taking orders for the 01 after May 01 (or so stated the dealer).
I purchased the extended warranty (for up to 100,000 miles) and will try to hold on to this baby until the 2007 model which according to sources will be da bomb! This model should have the steering wheel controls, a choice of a regular or XL platform, and all the other things we note as missing from the current model.
Drew? correct me if I am wrong..is it the 2007 or 2008 model year that is to be a total redesign?
Neicey
Hope the prototypes we've seen are wrong...
Pics of GST from "car connection":
http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4126&n=156,178&sid=178
Notice I didn't post the picture this time!;)
Also this popular web site shows the new ML in MY2004:
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/roadmap.htm
Jack
- refresh every 2 years
- facelift on 4th year
- full redesign 3 yrs after facelift
The E and ML have followed this pattern...the MY2005 will show up in 2004. Maybe that's where the confusion lies?
GUYS REALLY KNOWS ALOT MORE THAN THE SALE CONSULTANTS IN MY LOCAL DEALERSHIPS.I JUST PURCHASED A 02 ML55 2 WEEKS AGO, I AM EXTREMELY SATISFY.I WAS ABLE TO GET $2000.OFF MSRP. THAT WAS JUST ABOUT THE BEST I CAN DO IN THE SAN FRANSICO AREA. I HAVE ABOUT 800 MILES ON IT NOW,
GAS MILAGE IS NOT THAT GOOD, BUT IT GOT POWER!!
Could you try to put a range to "cost prohibitive"?
-- Gustav
Didn't get my VIN (forgot to ask, actually) but did get a build date as well - 10/23/01. Apparently, from that point, it will take 3-4 weeks to actually receive the car.
Does that sound about right? I'm glad to hear that there's a production number assigned. I got very good vibes from this dealer, and finding out they were messing with me would have shot any confidence I had in auto dealers, period.
Yes fuel comsumption is going to be higher, but if you could afford the 55, enjoy it. Life really is short, some things we enjoy now, later in life it will not give the same trill.
When my father got into his late sixties, I asked him to come with us into a little jungle expedition, he said no thanks, at his age he would enjoy more a good glass of vine and a fine hotel lobby, now, once in a while I find myself studying good hotels, Gawd, I am going to figth it for as long as I can. (I just started restoring my Unimog)
Enjoy,
Build date: Sep5-Sep7
Final Inspection: Sep 15
To the dealer lot: Sep 25
Going Home: Sep 29, with 5 miles on it :-)
Good Luck!
BTW, how lucky of you who have 400CDI or 55AMG! Congratulations!!!
That's why I mentioned I didn't want to jump to conclusions about my dealer. The only reason I had second thoughts was because of the treatment I received from other dealers while I was searching for the car.
How's your ML been treating you?
I'd have to guess the folding mirrors would be at least $500 installed (parts are at least $250 if I remember right since you have to get new assemblies). I'd suggest you give your dealer a call if you're that curious...
john:
Sounds about right (though 2-3 for delivery is more realistic). I'd suggest you get the VIN so you can give it to the insurance company so they can get you some paperwork now.
Thanks for your answer. At $500, that'd be less than the M2 option itself, not a bad deal. I would pay up to $1,500 for the power folding-mirrors and the trip computer.
BTW, I did ask my dealer, and he told me that it was not feasible, but then again he didn't know that you could order the single-CD AND the 6-CD changer, so I am not sure how knowledgeable he is. He also discouraged me from getting the Xenons, why, I don't know. He insinuated that they were more trouble than they were worth. Since I was in a little bit of a rush to get my car and they didn't seem to have any vehicles coming with those two options, I didn't insist to much, to my chagrin.
That doesn't mean, though, that I am not tremendously enjoying the car. It's so far surpassed all expectations I had about it.
-- Gustav
Probably means he doesn't want to do it. Did you ask the service department or the salesman? You might want to see if you can ask different service departments to see if they want the challenge :-)
FYI, retrofitting mirrors has been asked quite a bit. No answer yet that I know of...
Leaving the lot I ran into a MB mechanic, and asked him his opinion "off the record" he stated it was the "darndest thing he had ever seen" but agreed this was the most awesome engine in the industry. He said it was "crazy" for people to think MB is telling them not to change their oil more frequently merely because they are responsible for the cost on the newer models.
His statement was "why would MB risk a engine" just to save money on a "run of the mill oil change".
My warranty doesn't expire for 8 years or 100,000 miles..so if he's wrong, hopefully my wallet won't be affected.
Neicey
it seems it is telling us to service the car every 7500. But with the FSS, what the heck do we need that for?
i just think they did a great job to confuse us(maybe just me). any one?
I like to take the scientific approach - by theory, the shorter the oil change interval, the better the oil will protect your engine, thus, the longer the engine will last.
That being said - there's a question of cost versus benefit when it comes to shortcoming the manufacturer's recommended interval for changing oils. You could change oil every single day, and it would be great. But how much better would it be than changing every other week, or every month? Would the cost of the increased changes merit the extra protection? Probably not.
Therein lies your problem - in the probably.
I myself drive in NYC - so I laugh when I hear people say 'I go 10,000 miles between drains and so should you'. I can easily go 1.5 years before I hit 10,000 miles. In between, I'll have had a thousand starts, lots of them cold. I'll have gone through seasons six times. I'll have driven stop-and-start for almost all 10k miles. Am I to believe that the oil will still be protecting my engine at that point?
The FSS is a much debated thing here. I like to think of 'recommended' intervals as a compromise. There has to be significant reward to get that interval down less, and even more so because maintenance is included for so many (NA only) M-class vehicles. "Recommended" means on average, basing all types of drivers - from stop and go to all highway, from single climate to multi-season, or limited duty to heavy or extreme duty.
Why would MB risk an engine for 'the run of the mill oil change'? Well - do some math - simply put, if you're talking 100k vehicles (only hypothetical), and the cost to MB per oil change is only $25, then the savings is $2.5 million. If the cost of repairing the number of engines that could fail by not decreasing the maintenance interval is less (significantly less, because you have to factor in other costs, like reputation) - then the interval stays the same.
I like to take the reverse approach - I'll do an extra oil change myself once a year. It'll cut down the wear on the oil by 20-25%, and will (to some unmeasurable amount) protect my engine better. For that piece of mind, for my expensive and well-loved vehicles, I'd rather do it for the $60 myself and sleep well at night knowing that I did. I don't have my ML yet, but I've got a Chevy Blazer that has 180k NYC miles on it, and runs like clockwork, without any major repair. I like to think I played some part in that.
My cousin from Holland visited us this summer, he is an engineer with Shell. We got onto the topic of maintenance and oil changes, his car is a 2001 Toyota Camary and my wife's is a Honda Accord. In Europe the standard for an oil change is one year or 25,000 Kms., compared to our Honda which is 3mths or 6,000 Kms.
In Holland traffic jams are standard with long wait times, when you get into Germany you are flying at 160 or 180 kms/hr. The difference though, is their gas, 91 octane is their regular grade and their premium is 105. This provides for a cleaner burning engine and less contamination or wearing out of the additives in the oil. He went on to say that no one in Europe would buy a car will an oil change interval of 6,000kms.
So, if MB is recommending you use 91 octane or better from a quality gas provider, there is probably more to do with it than preventing engine knock from the higher compression. To my understanding the 320 is an ULEV which would also explain the longevity of the oil
brian
Things like driving habits, climate, elevation, engine type, etc. - all factor in.
The same - and then some - go into factoring in how long the oil change interval is, and what type of oil should be used.
I don't tend to disagree with your engineer cousin Brian (only because I spent too many years in college to become one myself) - but there's one thing I'd debate - how 'clean burning' the higher octane gas would be. That's another religious argument along the lines of 'how long should the oil change interval be' - namely, how much do you get for the extra octane? Some would argue anything over 91 doesn't buy you a thing, others would argue that 105 is the holy grail. I fall somewhere in the middle.
Answering Sam's question - changing the oil yourself doesn't void the warranty - as long as you use OEM parts, OEM recommended oil, and save receipts. So if you get yourself an OEM oil filter, and pick up some recommended Mobil-1 (oil range dependent on where you are and the temps there), you'll do just fine.
Benefit - we can argue till the cows come home, but here's the simple fact - 8.5 quarts of Mobil-1 (I'll go with 9 - easier) @ $5 a quart = $45. Add a MB oil filter to the mix @ $25 = $70. That's for you to do an additional oil change per year. $70.
Might sound extreme to some - but to others, like me, who pay premiums for microfiber cloths and Klasse, leather cleaners, Rain-X's, etc. - it's just another car-related expense, and gives me a comfort level.
And it *DOES* benefit the oil - we just can't say how much - it's impossible to measure. The oil does stay cleaner longer (overall), and that does get more contaminants and crankcase acids out. Whether the cleaner oil merits the cost is not up to serious discussion, because we really can't tell.
Don't mean to stretch out a long topic - but I'd love to see some kind of consensus. This is one of the big-time car related religious discussions, like 'Do I get anything from Synthetic oil versus Dyno oil' (the answer to which you'll have to go to a different forum to learn . Bottom line - what's best is whatever you feel comfortable with. I don't think MB will jeopardize most engines (some will be; unfortunately, *ALL* manufacturers recommended maintenance intervals do that, because they can't fit all driving situations), so you can sleep well at night if you're worried. And if you are worried - just change it an extra time. Well worth the $$$ just for the comfort.
Right now, it's going for $46.99 + tax + S&H. Last week, it was on sale for $29.99 + tax + free S&H.
My normal disclaimer - I don't work for either one, and I've never even *used* the Topsider before - just keeping the populace appraised of a good deal. If I run across more, I'll be sure to let you guys know (and wherever there's a discount on the net, super-cheap and all knowing JohnN will be there...)
I know my dealer mentioned the first Q '02 as the timeframe for the MB phone. Running boards, though, I don't know about. I had some interest in fender flares as well, and they're delayed for three months - maybe the running boards are delayed equivalently?
Good luck with your new ml!
Changing your oil more often, *responsibly*, is not bad for the environment.
Used motor oil is highly recycleable, and will return to use if brought back to a recycling station.
In turn - if it does help keep the engine running longer - that's that many less cars on the junkpiles of America. So you could look at it as a positive in terms of environment - I'd just say it's a wash, and not hurting anything.
Nice discourse on oil changing. I liked it! I will add that oil filters are about us $12-$15 for OEM grade and about us $8 for OE. And, lastly, to my understanding the dealers and MBUSA cares naught if you change your oil more frequently than recommended. The next buyer, however most definitely will take it as a sign of above average care for the faithful steed!
Okay, one more thing....you owe it to yeself to get a Topsider or similar. The topsider or equivalent will remove *all* the mess from changing oil -- especially on a ML -- which will otherwise spray everything from the sway bar to the right front tire, just as soon as you pop the bolt. I use mine on all 4 cars, 3 lawn mowers, and the big weed whacker. Between that and surgical gloves (a must any time working on a car) there is not a drop of mess. Pretty cool!
Regards
...Tracy
OK - so I need to get out more often. Sue me.
What's the norm? If you've got it - mind telling me what you paid for it?
Also - anyone with an Alpine aftermarket DVD NAV in it? With MCS? I've been trying to figure out what the costs would be to just add the Alpine version, and how I would get a screen display installed in addition to the MCS (not a lot of surface area to work with there it seems, and I wonder how audio integration would work).
Just the other day, I used my Topsider to change the transmission oil (not the ML, my other car) and it was a cinch.
I highly recommend it to any DIYer's.
Take care. :-)
Joe
I am also undecided on the Xenon, but i havent heard enough good things to warrant it, and i am hoping to get a well equipped 500 for about 48K, so its proabably out
I did ask the dealer is she was aware of any special incentives or low interest coming, she said no. Then I asked if she thought they might, she smiled and politely said, No". I guess they are selling well. EVERYONE STOP buying for a month!!!! Then we can all get a better deal. Oh well. I have not yet asked the salesman for his best price, but will start that process monday. I am in virginia and i would like to get for 1,000 over invoice but i dont think i will get that here. Kinda funny how we get so concerned over even a couple hundred bucks on a 50K car....
I have one final question, and will ask it here since there is no 20 year old mercedes topic and a coule of you have said you have old turbodiesels. I have an 83 300CD with 180K and still going strong. SO strong in fact it wont shut off after i remove key, have to pop hood and hit "stop". Been in 3 times for vacuum checks and they have even cut off the door locks and a couple other things. ANyone ever have this problem in an old MB diesel?
Here's a thought ... he was willing to give me the 02 ML320 (Desert Silver/Java, M1, M2, M5, M7, Bose Stereo upgrade) that I test drive for $500 over invoice !
This fellow had the suction tube break into small pieces, (the hot oil hardened the plastic and made it brittle), leaving some of it in the crankcase.
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/z3/messages/archive/msgsy1998w23/19806.html
I also went to WestMarine, since I have purchased from them before and found them good to deal with and read two unfavourable reviews about this product.
http://westmarine.consumerreview.com/reviews/showproduct.asp?partner=westmarine&partnerproduct=5599
brian
What's hot? Relatively speaking, the oil should be warm to the touch. If it's boiling hot, something bad can and *WILL* happen.
I'm skeptical too - but for so many people to use it, and for only a few horror stories to come up (I saw the westmarine reviews as well prior to purchasing), it should do fine.
He's not giving me the M2 for free. He was saying that I could get the Desert Silver with all the options (i forgot, it also have Heated Front Seats) at $500 over invoice.
neednewcarnow,
What's your email address ? I'll send you an email with the info.
PS. I've been doing some calculations and here's what I came up:
(msrp - $2000, see post 5362) is better than (invoice + $1000). Difference is $171.00.
Thanks a lot guys !
If they don't have the total confidence in their FSS, i believe they will spend that extra $240 per vehicle. why? consider how much they spend on Ad to bring in new buyers. $240 is only 0.48 % of a $50,000 car.!
by following mb's recommendation, if you still have a problem with your engine, would you buy another mb. would you tell your GOOD friends to buy a mb. does anyone still believe in" we didn't just build a better SUV, we built a better mercedes."???
that's my belief.
I understand that you used 5w30 Mobil1 Synthet when you changed the oil for the first time. I too used 5W30 Mobil1 instead of the recommmended 0W40 weight. So far I have driven about 1400 miles with the 5W30 in the crankcase. Did you see/feel any difference after you switched back to 0W40? How long did you drive with 5W30? I am beginning to think maybe I should switch back to 0W40 as soon as possible but one part of me is doubting if it is necessary. I appreciate any suggestion.
Your calculation is right !
Decisions ... decisions ...