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Comments
And yes, a firesale on the 320's will happen first.
As far as demand goes, I'm amazed that the entire new car market down here hasn't been soft since before 9/11. But "firesale" isn't a word I typically associate with Mercedes .
Steve, Host
Mark
And, to adjust the clock, I believe it only adjusts forward, either fast or slower, but not backward.
Mike
MB HQ is giving them the $.
Mark
Thanks
Tried what you suggested. Unfortunately, the procedure did not work. Unless I am doing something wrong, it could be the 1999 430 is different from the 2002 500. I guess I will have to contact the dealer. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.
Mike
I recently started shopping for a newer one ('99-'00), when my father offered to sell me his 2000 ML320 for $20k, just about what I wanted to spend. He keeps his cars pristine.
I love the ML, but am concerned that it has just under 100,000 highway miles on it already. I also don't know if maintainence costs will be more or the same as on a Volvo.
I'd appreciate any feedback.
I just looked up the ML on the Kellys Blue book site, trade in value in my area with the basic options is about $14,000 on your Dad's vehicle. Looks like he wants RETAIL from his own flesh and blood. Amazing.
Good luck. M.
Now that it is at the end of the year, and with the next year's 3.7L equiped ML350 being the the base model, new '02 MLs probably can be had for the biggest discounts ever, that probably still will be about $37K if it has leather, moon roof, bose &etc.
I'd think if it is worth $20K to anyone, it would be to someone who knows the previous owner and how well the car was maintained.
Mike
My question is this: with just under 100,000 highway miles on it, will maintainence costs be more or about the same as on a Volvo V70 of roughly the same year?
I'm asking for opinions on this because as a Volvo owner, I don't know much about ML's.
Thanks
I paid $390, which seems steep, especially considering that I told them to skip the tire rotation.
Thanks.
Gary
Mike
M.
Having been very enthusiastic about the ML (to the extent of going to the factory and doing their off-road track drive) I became increasingly disillusioned with the product given poor fit and finish. The engine and transmission worked flawlessly although loudly. I did recently drive a well-broken in 2002 loaner and was happier with the different gearing but still unimpressed with the overall quality of the vehicle.
By the way, the Camry drives very nicely! I bought it for several young drivers and will probably get a BMW 530 shortly. Moving on up!!
Mike
"Preformance" is defined in both objective and subjective terms.
I don't think I will seriously consider another Mercedes given my experience with the ML and the two dealers/service departments I have dealt with over the past three years. The sedans, coupes, and convertibles are nice eye-candy but not the kind of vehicles I want in my garage for a long term. I wonder how many other customers Daimler-Benz has lost in their rush to cash in on the SUV popularity?
None.
First MB gained a lot of customers they otherwise wouldn't have. MLs are a dime a dozen on the roads.
2nd. Disliking one product is no reason to avoid every single other product from that company. Your Camry might be a nice car, but you should drive a MB sedan first.
I'm a 22 year owner of MB products and am speaking from experience and still own a 1998 ML along with a 2000 E430.
Wally
If anyone has any information I would appreciate the feedback. Thanks a bunch
Neil
neilg432@cox.net
That was a smart move on MB's part, because our MB experience was again too good to pass up when it came time to replace the sedan, so instead of another Honda, we now drive a C-Class and know it is the best car we've ever had; and it still seems to us to be the best choice among all of the other worthy competitors to choose from.
The ML is a great SUV, a real SUV from the drawing board to final assembly, i.e., a "real" SUV generally never does any single thing perfectly, but does nearly everything well. The ML, of course, does nearly everything very well. It's a freeway cruiser with plenty of room for adults in the back seat and it can tow, all in comfort, safety, and with the kind of unquestioned longevity and desirability that will be rewarded years down the road with a good resale value.
tidester, host
Although my question regarding how many other customers have become disillusioned with Mercedes Benz was a rhetorical one, I would like to recount my first-hand experience with two other disappointed former ML owners. One was a life-long MB fan who had a negative experience with a ML 430. He commented on the build quality as well and ended up trading "up" for the X5. The second was also a life-long MB fan who had multiple sedans and coupes. He was disappointed in the rough ride, poor mileage, and quality which was not in keeping with his previous MB's. He ended up trading for a domestic SUV. He coincidentally had purchased a S500 (MY 2001) which he was very unhappy with-he traded that one in for a Lexus SC 430 which he is delighted with.
I have driven several MB sedans and coupes but frankly didn't find anything special about the experience. They take a second seat to BMW when it comes to performance and handling. They take a second seat to Lexus with respect to appointments, fit, and finish. I would refer you to the J.D. Powers surveys to determine the trend for the MB line.
Wally:
I believe both the engine and transmission are manufactured in German plants. Those preformed well in my personal experience. The remaining components however can assume a large role in determining the overall driving experience. I don't know if it would have increased the price by 50% but by "saving" on these items, MB may have reaped a short-term return but a long-term deficit from unhappy owners.
mac320:
My personal experience regarding resale of the ML has been dissapointing. I purchased a MY 2000 for about $41,000 and in about three years was offered (and accepted) $26,000 by a car dealer. I turned down an offer of $27,000 by a private party. I don't think that was "good resale value". I would hazard to guess that the resale value on the ML's is significantly below that of MB's sedans as well as several other lines of SUV's (BMW, Land Cruiser, and Lexus come to mind).
As I have said in one my earlier posts, I was a enthusiastic ML fan initially but rapidly became disenchanted with the product. IMHO caveat emptor-definitely "question" a product you are making a modest investment in and don't succumb to the marketing of a brand on a subjective basis.
I think you did very well.
I've found owners of the C230s, for instance, to be far more generous with their appreciation and I think it might be because these owners are probably younger and generally more enthusiastic about everything, and also because it's probably not their 8th or 10th new car.
MB's burden, I think, is not only because it is seen as at the top of the game, which makes it a target, but also because the relative older age of MB buyers compared to other brands. MB's biggest design defect to date will be that it didn't try harder to appeal to younger buyers sooner.
Mr. JD Powers asks Mr. new MB owner how he likes his car and the reviewer is tough but fair of course and gives his new MB an 8 or less out of 10. Mr. JD Powers asks the young Subaru owner and 10s across the board and given with enthusiasm. What is Mr. JD Powers really rating: the new car or the new owner?
For those 2 friends of yours there are probably thousands who feel differently.
I use the ML as a utility vehicle. I can fit 7 in it. I've fit loading pallets in the back, 2X4's, cabinets, trash, yard waste, tables, ladders, luggage and after I clean it up I can still take it to the opera. The X5 just doesn't compare. Your life-long MB fan friend who had multiple sedans and coupes and who was disappointed in the rough ride and poor mileage doesn't understand that the ML is a truck - it's not a sports coupe or a sedan.
By all accounts the reliability of BMWs are worse, and the ride of Lexus is too soft. I'm not arguing with you since everyone has the right to his/her opinion. In the words of that famous sybarite Goldilocks, to me "it's just right."
I purchased a 02 Brilliant Silver with: leather, 3rd row, moon roof,CD player,power folding mirrors for $40K ($3800 off sticker). After 5 months and 7,200 miles(knock on wood)we have had no problems. I find the vehicle has good power and great gas mileage (22.2 highway, 18 around town). The 3rd row has come in handy a number of times. In fact, we had a 5'10" teenager sitting back there, without a complaint. This is by far the best riding vehicle I've owned. We sold our 2000 Chrysler TC Limited to buy the ML. So far, my owner satisfaction is higher than the TC Limited, which cost $32K and was a very fine mini-van. My wife and I feel very safe in the ML, which is a big reason for buying it. We also get a lot of compliments from neighbors and friends about the overall appearance of the vehicle. We like the redesigned front lights and bumper, as well as the interior.
By following this site, I have come to the conclusion that the 02 model has overcome many of the previous quality problems. Most of the posting and problems are from owners of 1998-2000 model years. I'll continue to read this site, hoping that other happy 02 or 03 model year owners will share their satisfaction. While I would like to think that I won't experience any problems, I am not naive to believe that won't happen, but then again that would be true for any vehicle!!
My ML now has 15,000 miles on it and I still enjoy driving it every day. The only real problem I have with mine is the trip computer (date, compass, mpg, etc) up near the sunroof does not work properly. I have tried to reset it many times, but it only works for a few days. After that, the date will jump ahead or display some crazy number (11-18, 11-19, 87-26, 6A-45, etc). The dealer tried to fix it, but all they did was reset the date. However, that didn't resolve anything. I will asked them to look at it again next time. Other than that, I can't complain.
My ML 320 had one option I never had before and that is heated seats. At first I thought this was a silly option for the expense. However, now that I have had it, I can't imagine not having it in the future. Nothing like toasty seats on a cold morning!
Another thing that is great about the ML compared to the BMW and Lexus, is the size of the rear cargo area. The ML can hold much more stuff than the other 2, so I found it to be the only real choice for me when I bought mine.
I am a Realtor, so I have a lot of people crawling in and out of mine. The only real complaints from my clients have come from short people. They think it is too hard to climb inside.
If I had to do it again, I would in a heartbeat. My only regret was getting it in Capri Blue. The paint is too dark and it shows everything. It looks sharp when it's clean, but that doesn't last long. I should of held out for the silver, which was my first choice. However, they didn't have any in stock.
Compared to the 2000, it seems the 2002 is considerably quieter as far as engine and wind noise goes. I've been told that MB added Thinsulate to the doors at some point along the way.
Having read this board, I was very atuned to the squeaks and rattles issue and drove many miles without the radio on looking for any tell tale squeak or rattle. I did discern a slightly metallic rattle from the tailgate area which you had to listen for to hear while going over a decent bump at low speed. This minor imperfection was starting to bug me, when I read here that MB had engineered a solution for the tailgate rattle. There are two hard rubber/plastic cylinders sticking out of the tailgate opening just outside the weatherseal that have a slot for a screwdriver. On the end of each cylinder is a ball-like swivel. The cylinders can be screwed out or in (in my case out) to hold the tailgate more firmly against its latch by placing more tension on the tailgate. My intial efforts to turn these a little by hand did not cure the rattle. Later I actually screwed them out more with a screwdriver and the rattle is completely gone. This thing sounds and rides like a vault now.
The only barely discernable noise now comes from the plastic cargo plates moving against the cargo tie down rings in one place and this can be easily halted with a little velcro or something.
I'm extremely pleased with the quiet ride now. The ride quality is very nice. Mildly bouncy like the truck it is, but very soft and responsive otherwise.
I had considered the Lexus RX 300, but it really is much more of a car than the ML 320. The last straw was looking at the shiny black ML 320 with its positively monstrous (now 17 not 16 inch) tires and comparing them to those on the RX 300. The RX 300 looked like it had Honda Civic tires on it by comparison. By the way, that is not intended as a slam, my Lexus ES 300 still rode like a vault with 80K on it and was problem free, so it was hard to part with. Lexus makes great sedans, but MB really got it right with the styling of the ML IMHO. I see there is a new Lexus SUV out now incidentally.
Anyway, thus far I'm like the the styling changes to the 2002 over the earlier models which I also thought look great. It seems that MB has worked hard to solve the fit and finish problems they encountered with the earlier vehicles.
Thought I'd add my thoughts. Happy motoring.
Steve, Host
tidester, host
I am about to take delivery of my 2003 ML320 this weekend. Just wanted to know if any of you had any thoughts or concerns about the new 2003 vehicle, or what I should be looking out for when the dealer releases the vehicle to me.
many thanks
fareed