Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

kullenberg · November 2002

I must differ with keeping ESP on all the time. When I go up my steep drive in the snow, with ESP on, and the wheels start to slip, the ESP brakes the spinning wheel(s), and cut back engine torque, just when I don't want it to. If I turn ESP off, I still get traction control to the spinning wheels but no torque cutback, thus no loss of momentum, and the truck goes up the snowy drive like tank!

crikey · November 2002

Your analogy makes sense. But I think the whole ML platform is due for a revamp. That and with increased competition, I think demand for the ML350 might still be soft. If MB does not discount now, they will surely discount soon.

And yes, a firesale on the 320's will happen first.

stever · November 2002

Could be; 5 year "revamp" cycles are pretty common for lots of manufacturers. An entire platform revamp is another can of worms though I'm guessing.

As far as demand goes, I'm amazed that the entire new car market down here hasn't been soft since before 9/11. But "firesale" isn't a word I typically associate with Mercedes .

Steve, Host

mark156 · November 2002

My understanding is, the 2005 ML will be re-styled. That puts it on course for the 7 year cycle ('98-'04). The E-class was on a 7 yr cycle too ('96-02). The S-class was on an 8 yr cycle on the last style ('92-'99).

Mark

mac320 · November 2002

When using the oil check feature, there is a minimum wait of about 3-5 min that you have to wait if the car has been driven. It only indicates that everything is Ok or not--it doesn't get specific about how much you're down unless you're a quart low.

And, to adjust the clock, I believe it only adjusts forward, either fast or slower, but not backward.

bwm · November 2002

I have a 1999 ML-320 and we had the autolock feature activated shortly after we purchased the vehicle new. I assume the 1999 ML-430 can do the same.

kiiwii · November 2002

Thanks. The problem is that the clock doesn't go either forward or backwards.

kiiwii · November 2002

According to MB user's guide, you need to turn off ESP for serious off roading condition. Guess you must have a serious steep drive

mac320 · November 2002

The manual recommends chains on all four wheels. If you only have chains for two wheels, they'd go on on the rear, in which event, you'd turn ESP off as the system would have problems making any sense of some wheels slipping while others were not.

derel2 · November 2002

Thanks to those who responded to my questions about the ESP switch and the autolock feature.

Mike

rich96 · November 2002

kiiwii, when twisting the knob to the left or right, you really need to twist it hard. that's what i needed to do with mine in order to adjust the clock.

brwndoggy · November 2002

My local dealer in Austin is selling all 320's at invoice. This is the same dealer that would never be so aggressive.

MB HQ is giving them the $.

mark156 · November 2002

derel2, on my 2002 ML500, to activate the locking system to lock automatically at 15 miles an hour (est), you hold down the locking switch for at least 20 seconds. That will turn on the locking feature. I'm assuming the '99 will do the same.

Mark

sydney6 · November 2002

My 2000 ML320 with the 6-CD changer seems to be skipping in the last few weeks. Anyone else have this problem? Will be scheduling a service call soon, but wanted feedback here...

Thanks

psedrish · November 2002

Likely dust...needs cleaning...get CD optical pickup cleaning disc anywhere and pop it in.

rs64 · November 2002

My 2000 did the same skipping thing and a cleaning CD did not fix it. When I took it in for the A service, the dealer replaced the changer no charge under warranty. Give it a shot.

derel2 · November 2002

Mark:

Tried what you suggested. Unfortunately, the procedure did not work. Unless I am doing something wrong, it could be the 1999 430 is different from the 2002 500. I guess I will have to contact the dealer. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

Mike

cch1 · November 2002

I currently drive a Volvo wagon and love it, but it's getting old('89 w/ 160,000+ miles), and has the rattles to prove it.

I recently started shopping for a newer one ('99-'00), when my father offered to sell me his 2000 ML320 for $20k, just about what I wanted to spend. He keeps his cars pristine.

I love the ML, but am concerned that it has just under 100,000 highway miles on it already. I also don't know if maintainence costs will be more or the same as on a Volvo.

I'd appreciate any feedback.

mark156 · November 2002

cch1, $20,000 for a 2000 100,000 mile ML320? How much would a low mileage one be? Your Dad should GIVE you the car! The price just doesn't sound like a wonderful deal to me.

I just looked up the ML on the Kellys Blue book site, trade in value in my area with the basic options is about $14,000 on your Dad's vehicle. Looks like he wants RETAIL from his own flesh and blood. Amazing.

Good luck. M.

mac320 · November 2002

According to Edmunds, it's worth more than $20K as a dealer trade-in (e.g., white and with leather seats and the usual options). That includes a minus $2.6K for a mileage adjustment.

Now that it is at the end of the year, and with the next year's 3.7L equiped ML350 being the the base model, new '02 MLs probably can be had for the biggest discounts ever, that probably still will be about $37K if it has leather, moon roof, bose &etc.

I'd think if it is worth $20K to anyone, it would be to someone who knows the previous owner and how well the car was maintained.

derel2 · November 2002

Can anyone tell me how to remove the black engine cover on a 1999 Ml 430? Does it just snap off or are there fasteners holding it on?

Mike

cch1 · November 2002

When I typed in the ML320's specs on Edmund's site, the value was around $27,000. I know that the car was exceptionally maintained, both mechanically and cosmetically.

My question is this: with just under 100,000 highway miles on it, will maintainence costs be more or about the same as on a Volvo V70 of roughly the same year?

I'm asking for opinions on this because as a Volvo owner, I don't know much about ML's.

Thanks

ggoudeli1 · November 2002

Obviously, I don't have a new truck with maintenance included. I have a '99 ML 320.
I paid $390, which seems steep, especially considering that I told them to skip the tire rotation.

Thanks.

Gary

1wiseguy · November 2002

I bought my 99 ML for 33000 CAD$ (very low mileage) but I got a great deal because it was a company vehicle driven by one senior exec (where I worked- I knew the guy personally) and all I had to do was match the trade in price offered by the dealership.

derel2 · November 2002

Can any of the major brands of antifreeze be used in a ML series SUV or is the mercedes formulation something unique for this vehicle?

Mike

jcat707 · November 2002

How come the ML has the folding key and all of the Mercedes have the Smartkey? I really like the Smartkey in my father's S500.

mark156 · November 2002

Jcat707, I'm sure the ML doesn't have the smartkey because it's cheaper to make them that way. My 2000 E430 has the smartkey. I like the folding style key on my ML500 better because on several occasions, I've dropped the E-class smartkey on the floor. I dropped it because the smartkey is spring loaded once you put it into the slot. If you don't push it in far enough, it will pop back out. If you are in a hurry and the key pops out, it's frustrating trying to find it on the floor especially at night.

M.

thor8 · November 2002

derel, any major brand is good.

gnc · November 2002

I just traded my MY 2000 ML 320 with about 33,000 miles (with third-row seat option, audio upgrade, sunroof, mud flaps, and towing package) which was in pristine condition for a 2003 Camry V6 XLE. The dealer gave me $26,000 which was acceptable when compared to the $27,000 that a private party was willing to pay given the tax advantages.

Having been very enthusiastic about the ML (to the extent of going to the factory and doing their off-road track drive) I became increasingly disillusioned with the product given poor fit and finish. The engine and transmission worked flawlessly although loudly. I did recently drive a well-broken in 2002 loaner and was happier with the different gearing but still unimpressed with the overall quality of the vehicle.

By the way, the Camry drives very nicely! I bought it for several young drivers and will probably get a BMW 530 shortly. Moving on up!!

derel2 · November 2002

Enjoy the new Camry but how can you compare the ride of a small truck to a mid-size sedan? I don't expect my ML 430 to perform like my Jaguar but I certainly expect it to outperform my son's Explorer which it does.

Mike

gnc · November 2002

The ride is clearly only one component of the overall ownership experience. When it comes to cruising on the highways (I never took the ML 320 off road) I prefer my wife's full sized Yukon.

"Preformance" is defined in both objective and subjective terms.

I don't think I will seriously consider another Mercedes given my experience with the ML and the two dealers/service departments I have dealt with over the past three years. The sedans, coupes, and convertibles are nice eye-candy but not the kind of vehicles I want in my garage for a long term. I wonder how many other customers Daimler-Benz has lost in their rush to cash in on the SUV popularity?

ctic · November 2002

"I wonder how many other customers Daimler-Benz has lost in their rush to cash in on the SUV popularity?"

None.

First MB gained a lot of customers they otherwise wouldn't have. MLs are a dime a dozen on the roads.

2nd. Disliking one product is no reason to avoid every single other product from that company. Your Camry might be a nice car, but you should drive a MB sedan first.

wniel · November 2002

When Mercedes came out with the ML in late 1997, they were competing with all of the other SUV's on the market and had to keep the price competitive. The running gear of the vehicle is all Mercedes but the the components, etc. were all provided by suppliers. Had Mercedes put in the same components as in their sedans the vehicle would have been at least 50% more expensive. One cannot compare the quality of the ML with the general quality of Mercedes sedans, even though the ML quality has improved dramatically over the last couple of years.
I'm a 22 year owner of MB products and am speaking from experience and still own a 1998 ML along with a 2000 E430.
Wally

neilg432 · November 2002

My question is has anyone installed or have installed an electric brake controler on their ML. I do a lot of towing and the new trailer has electric brakes. The dealer refuses to install the controler, they state the electrical system is to fragile and Mercedes will not back this install.

If anyone has any information I would appreciate the feedback. Thanks a bunch
Neil
neilg432@cox.net

mac320 · November 2002

I got educated. As a two time Jeep SUV owner, the ML compared too well to pass up. And, I still like Jeeps. However, I am pretty sure I probably wouldn't have been on the lots test driving MB's if the ML hadn't been "made" in the US.

That was a smart move on MB's part, because our MB experience was again too good to pass up when it came time to replace the sedan, so instead of another Honda, we now drive a C-Class and know it is the best car we've ever had; and it still seems to us to be the best choice among all of the other worthy competitors to choose from.

The ML is a great SUV, a real SUV from the drawing board to final assembly, i.e., a "real" SUV generally never does any single thing perfectly, but does nearly everything well. The ML, of course, does nearly everything very well. It's a freeway cruiser with plenty of room for adults in the back seat and it can tow, all in comfort, safety, and with the kind of unquestioned longevity and desirability that will be rewarded years down the road with a good resale value.

tidester · November 2002

It's probably not a wise idea to post your email address publicly as any site will be visited by the unscrupulous who harvest email addresses. To avoid spammers you might make your email address public in your personal profile which is a bit off the beaten trail. Alternatively, some merely put spaces before and after the @ symbol of their email address when posting.

tidester, host

gnc · November 2002

ctic:

Although my question regarding how many other customers have become disillusioned with Mercedes Benz was a rhetorical one, I would like to recount my first-hand experience with two other disappointed former ML owners. One was a life-long MB fan who had a negative experience with a ML 430. He commented on the build quality as well and ended up trading "up" for the X5. The second was also a life-long MB fan who had multiple sedans and coupes. He was disappointed in the rough ride, poor mileage, and quality which was not in keeping with his previous MB's. He ended up trading for a domestic SUV. He coincidentally had purchased a S500 (MY 2001) which he was very unhappy with-he traded that one in for a Lexus SC 430 which he is delighted with.

I have driven several MB sedans and coupes but frankly didn't find anything special about the experience. They take a second seat to BMW when it comes to performance and handling. They take a second seat to Lexus with respect to appointments, fit, and finish. I would refer you to the J.D. Powers surveys to determine the trend for the MB line.

Wally:

I believe both the engine and transmission are manufactured in German plants. Those preformed well in my personal experience. The remaining components however can assume a large role in determining the overall driving experience. I don't know if it would have increased the price by 50% but by "saving" on these items, MB may have reaped a short-term return but a long-term deficit from unhappy owners.

mac320:

My personal experience regarding resale of the ML has been dissapointing. I purchased a MY 2000 for about $41,000 and in about three years was offered (and accepted) $26,000 by a car dealer. I turned down an offer of $27,000 by a private party. I don't think that was "good resale value". I would hazard to guess that the resale value on the ML's is significantly below that of MB's sedans as well as several other lines of SUV's (BMW, Land Cruiser, and Lexus come to mind).

As I have said in one my earlier posts, I was a enthusiastic ML fan initially but rapidly became disenchanted with the product. IMHO caveat emptor-definitely "question" a product you are making a modest investment in and don't succumb to the marketing of a brand on a subjective basis.

fedlawman · November 2002

Your ML retained 63% of it's value after 3 years?

I think you did very well.

mac320 · November 2002

My guess is, MB owners probably have a larger percentage of persons that send the steak back because it's slightly overcooked or get irked then when the salad has cherry tomatoes on it when they specifically asked for no tomatoes.

I've found owners of the C230s, for instance, to be far more generous with their appreciation and I think it might be because these owners are probably younger and generally more enthusiastic about everything, and also because it's probably not their 8th or 10th new car.

MB's burden, I think, is not only because it is seen as at the top of the game, which makes it a target, but also because the relative older age of MB buyers compared to other brands. MB's biggest design defect to date will be that it didn't try harder to appeal to younger buyers sooner.

Mr. JD Powers asks Mr. new MB owner how he likes his car and the reviewer is tough but fair of course and gives his new MB an 8 or less out of 10. Mr. JD Powers asks the young Subaru owner and 10s across the board and given with enthusiasm. What is Mr. JD Powers really rating: the new car or the new owner?

diploid · November 2002

He's a phony...the real Mr. JD Power does not have an S in his name.

pablo_l · November 2002

My mother, my two sisters and my little niece are visiting us over the Holifays. We never drive around with more than 3-4 people in the ML320 ('99, and it's been a darling), but now there'll be 6 of us... squeezing 4 in the back is not an option, driving around in two cars most of the time seems silly. That means getting the third roaw seat from MB, I assume... then again, shelling out $1k for a two week one-off thing also seems kida silly... anyone knows of any products that might provide a cheap-o one off alternative? Don't think I am a monster set out to endanger my little nieve's life - I'm nimble, and *I* can sit in the back if I must (most likely it'll become the mother in law's regular seat, though :-)

ctic · November 2002

gnc:

For those 2 friends of yours there are probably thousands who feel differently.

I use the ML as a utility vehicle. I can fit 7 in it. I've fit loading pallets in the back, 2X4's, cabinets, trash, yard waste, tables, ladders, luggage and after I clean it up I can still take it to the opera. The X5 just doesn't compare. Your life-long MB fan friend who had multiple sedans and coupes and who was disappointed in the rough ride and poor mileage doesn't understand that the ML is a truck - it's not a sports coupe or a sedan.

By all accounts the reliability of BMWs are worse, and the ride of Lexus is too soft. I'm not arguing with you since everyone has the right to his/her opinion. In the words of that famous sybarite Goldilocks, to me "it's just right."

rvaughn4 · November 2002

I have been following this site for 6 months - before I purchased my 02 ML 320. This site gave me a lot of information and insight regarding problems with the ML. After test driving/researching several SUV's (Acura, BMW, etc) my wife and I decided that the ML was by far the best choice. In fact this is our first MB. While I liked the MDX, to me it drove like a mini-van. The 3rd row was too cramped - though I like the fact that the 3rd row folded down. Finally, for $40K, I did not find the interior to be attractive - in fact it looked cheap.

I purchased a 02 Brilliant Silver with: leather, 3rd row, moon roof,CD player,power folding mirrors for $40K ($3800 off sticker). After 5 months and 7,200 miles(knock on wood)we have had no problems. I find the vehicle has good power and great gas mileage (22.2 highway, 18 around town). The 3rd row has come in handy a number of times. In fact, we had a 5'10" teenager sitting back there, without a complaint. This is by far the best riding vehicle I've owned. We sold our 2000 Chrysler TC Limited to buy the ML. So far, my owner satisfaction is higher than the TC Limited, which cost $32K and was a very fine mini-van. My wife and I feel very safe in the ML, which is a big reason for buying it. We also get a lot of compliments from neighbors and friends about the overall appearance of the vehicle. We like the redesigned front lights and bumper, as well as the interior.

By following this site, I have come to the conclusion that the 02 model has overcome many of the previous quality problems. Most of the posting and problems are from owners of 1998-2000 model years. I'll continue to read this site, hoping that other happy 02 or 03 model year owners will share their satisfaction. While I would like to think that I won't experience any problems, I am not naive to believe that won't happen, but then again that would be true for any vehicle!!

intmed99 · November 2002

jorgegvb · November 2002

I would have to agree with your remarks. I purchased my '02 ML 320 a year ago this week. I had owned 2 Jeep's previously and was very pleased moving up to the ML. The Jeep's had a much rougher ride that this vehicle. However, the gas mileage is about the same.

My ML now has 15,000 miles on it and I still enjoy driving it every day. The only real problem I have with mine is the trip computer (date, compass, mpg, etc) up near the sunroof does not work properly. I have tried to reset it many times, but it only works for a few days. After that, the date will jump ahead or display some crazy number (11-18, 11-19, 87-26, 6A-45, etc). The dealer tried to fix it, but all they did was reset the date. However, that didn't resolve anything. I will asked them to look at it again next time. Other than that, I can't complain.

My ML 320 had one option I never had before and that is heated seats. At first I thought this was a silly option for the expense. However, now that I have had it, I can't imagine not having it in the future. Nothing like toasty seats on a cold morning!

Another thing that is great about the ML compared to the BMW and Lexus, is the size of the rear cargo area. The ML can hold much more stuff than the other 2, so I found it to be the only real choice for me when I bought mine.

I am a Realtor, so I have a lot of people crawling in and out of mine. The only real complaints from my clients have come from short people. They think it is too hard to climb inside.

If I had to do it again, I would in a heartbeat. My only regret was getting it in Capri Blue. The paint is too dark and it shows everything. It looks sharp when it's clean, but that doesn't last long. I should of held out for the silver, which was my first choice. However, they didn't have any in stock.

jsimpohio · November 2002

Hello people. I've been lurking here for some time but have never posted. This fall I had been looking to pick up a 2000 ML 320 and had my eye on one in pretty nice shape with 39k miles. I'm cautious about these things and looked at it for a while. I knew I could get pretty decent money for my '93 Lexus ES 300 by selling it on my own (as opposed to dealer trade-in offer) and decided to try to sell the Lexus before buying the ML 320. As it happened, before I could sell the Lexus, the ML 320 was bought by someone else. I was kind of bummed about that, but started my search anew. Not long thereafter I found a dealer here in NW Ohio that had one remaining '02 ML 320 (Black w/Java like I wanted w/ M1, M5, basically everything but M2 and third row seats). When I asked in mid-October for the best offer from the dealer he moved on the first try (to my amazement)from $41,720 sticker to $37,856 or a discount of $3864 or about $1000 below invoice). I figured it would take days of haggling to get to about $39,500. I later learned there was a dealer incentive in place of $1500 making this possible. For the first time ever in buying a car I did not haggle at all, believing this dealer was down to the bone b/c '03s were out etc. Took delivery on October 18th and the vehicle has been fantastic. Like some other obsessive compulsive's posting here, I did not like the idea of having that beautiful MCS screen controlling only the CD and Radio, so after trying to figure a way around buying the MB Motorola v60 phone, I bit the bullet and ordered that too. The phone is pricey, but it is truly very slickly integrated and works great. I've had an occasional problem where signal strengh was marginal, but overall it's fantastic. Would like to add the NAV at some point, but the phone had much greater utility for me and buying both would have been bleeding the turnip a little too much. Maybe I'll add it down the road. My other observations are as follows:

Compared to the 2000, it seems the 2002 is considerably quieter as far as engine and wind noise goes. I've been told that MB added Thinsulate to the doors at some point along the way.

Having read this board, I was very atuned to the squeaks and rattles issue and drove many miles without the radio on looking for any tell tale squeak or rattle. I did discern a slightly metallic rattle from the tailgate area which you had to listen for to hear while going over a decent bump at low speed. This minor imperfection was starting to bug me, when I read here that MB had engineered a solution for the tailgate rattle. There are two hard rubber/plastic cylinders sticking out of the tailgate opening just outside the weatherseal that have a slot for a screwdriver. On the end of each cylinder is a ball-like swivel. The cylinders can be screwed out or in (in my case out) to hold the tailgate more firmly against its latch by placing more tension on the tailgate. My intial efforts to turn these a little by hand did not cure the rattle. Later I actually screwed them out more with a screwdriver and the rattle is completely gone. This thing sounds and rides like a vault now.

The only barely discernable noise now comes from the plastic cargo plates moving against the cargo tie down rings in one place and this can be easily halted with a little velcro or something.

I'm extremely pleased with the quiet ride now. The ride quality is very nice. Mildly bouncy like the truck it is, but very soft and responsive otherwise.

I had considered the Lexus RX 300, but it really is much more of a car than the ML 320. The last straw was looking at the shiny black ML 320 with its positively monstrous (now 17 not 16 inch) tires and comparing them to those on the RX 300. The RX 300 looked like it had Honda Civic tires on it by comparison. By the way, that is not intended as a slam, my Lexus ES 300 still rode like a vault with 80K on it and was problem free, so it was hard to part with. Lexus makes great sedans, but MB really got it right with the styling of the ML IMHO. I see there is a new Lexus SUV out now incidentally.

Anyway, thus far I'm like the the styling changes to the 2002 over the earlier models which I also thought look great. It seems that MB has worked hard to solve the fit and finish problems they encountered with the earlier vehicles.

Thought I'd add my thoughts. Happy motoring.

stever · November 2002

Thanks for the "review" and congrats on the new ride!

Steve, Host

tidester · November 2002

Welcome aboard! We're glad you finally decided to step out of the shadows and join the discussion!

tidester, host

pablo_l · November 2002

Our '99 ML320 has never had a single rattle or sound. It has always felt extremely solid. Only issue ever was the sunroof seal - and of course it got fixed under warranty. And we compare the interior comfort to other high end cars we have owned over the last few years - Jaguar XJR and a Saab. At 35k miles, the car feels like a brick. I have always liked it a lot, I used to be an utter anti-SUV person. Of course, my wife won't let me drive it! I agree the '99 is more spartan than other SUVs... but it's the whole point about an SUV, in theory, some ruggedness has to be dialed in for authenticity. In the end, to each their own - we're very happy with ours. Best car purchase we've made, all in all.

janoo · November 2002

Hi All,
I am about to take delivery of my 2003 ML320 this weekend. Just wanted to know if any of you had any thoughts or concerns about the new 2003 vehicle, or what I should be looking out for when the dealer releases the vehicle to me.
many thanks
fareed

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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