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Comments
Until you get a consistent fault, I'd ignore it. I almost consider it just another funny characteristic of the vehicle.
- Mark
$23K for a 99 430 with MB extended warranty sounds like a pretty good deal, although it depends a little on the how it is optioned. The dealers around here typical are asking $30K+ for this car.
OTOH, I hear ML prices are VERY depressed right now and you can get new cars for $5K off or so and this has to trickle down. Personally, I'd rather spend $36K on a new 2003 ML320 rather than $23K for a used 99 ML430, but then I find the 320 power completely adequate and prefer the lighter and more fuel efficient engine.
- Mark
M-Class SUV probed for leaks
Steve, Host
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/w164.html
- Mark
Will there be any significant changes between 2003 and 2004 versions of the car?
I have heard about reliability problems with the M-class in the past. Has reliability improved? The 3.5 liter engine seems better suited to pull this large vehicle. My wife likes the comfortable leather seats. Are they supportive for long car trips? Our Lexus RX 300 has been great but we want to try something new this time around and the safety features of the ML 350 seem unmatched. Also we get flooding here in South Florida and the 20 inch fording depth sounds like a useful feature.
She likes the Silver and Desert Silver (gold) colors of the car but she also likes the Java leather - is it possible to get these color combinations? Does the beige leather hold up well or would she be better with Ash (gray) or Charcoal (black) leather? We have a baby on the way so we want to have something that won't get too dirty.
We will be going to a Volvo XC 90 event in two weeks. They said that they will have ML350's and X5's to drive in addition to the XC 90's. Sounds like a good chance to test drive without having to deal with a salesman. We test drove the T5 XC 90 but were unimpressed with the engine. The T6 costs as much as the Mercedes and the BMW but doesn't seem as luxurious.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Reliability has improved, but if your "300" is a RX300, it won't match that. MB still has a much higher percentage of electrical glitches. The data shows it improving from "awful" to "below average".
I certainly wouldn't pay much attention to "fording depth" in my decision - at the depths where the ML might be slightly better than another SUV, you're putting yourself at huge risk.
Personally, if I was buying a new mid-size SUV right now, I'd get either the Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander, but the ML is still a very nice SUV.
- Mark
Scott
However (you knew that was coming didn't you??) at 1600 miles the check engine light popped on. Called MB they said not to worry - so I didn't. Got home and had it serviced and it turns out a wire had broken in a harness to a fuel sensor. they ordered a new harness and everything seems fine now. The dealer was very good about getting me in and out and I got a loaner car for each trip (once to find out the trouble - the other to install the harness).
In addition, I mentioned when I dropped it off the first time that I thought the tranny was shifting a little erratically and they said they dropped the pan and cleaned out clogged screens with "flashing" material in them. While it seems to be much happier now, I wonder just what "flashing" material is...
All in all, still a thumbs up from my point a view - especially now that I know the truck can handle pretty much anything nature can throw at it. Oh, it is available in Desert Silver / Java. That's what I have - I like it and I have 2 children - just put a light blanket on the seat and seatback and you should be able to prevent most disasters : )
Joe
I am quoted $1005.00 out of pocket and $499 a month for the lexus. Can MB come under this or will it be more. I understand the M-class has more room but we do not need it. I just like the looks of the M-class a little more.
Can any one help?
I'd do your homework and get all the invoice prices off this site including any dealer incentives. Then go in and offer something near invoice and if they bite, then see what residual and lease factors they'll allow and what the payment might be. You really want to avoid going in and saying "can you do $x/month?" Salesman lick their chops when they get a customer that says this, because they can manipulate the deal by extending terms and adding capital charges to get any payment amount you want.
And shopping for the lowest payment will sometimes unduly favor cars with an an artificially high residual - that's fine if you're sure you're going to turn the car in at the end of the lease, but if you shop for a lower upfront price and lower residual, you'll have better options to buy the car at the end of the lease.
All these things are the reasons I don't lease - too much power in the hands of the dealer. If you buy the car, you have only a single number to negotiate and you can directly compare deals. Unless leases are subsidized, you'll typically get a lower total cost of ownership with buying.
- Mark
$900 to replace the radio because Starmark doesn't consider the radio 'necessary'.
It seems the Starmark warranty is crafted to cover things that last on Mercedes, rather than protect you on parts that are not reliable.
The Starmark inspection also means little. When I got my Starmark'd car, the wipers didn't work right, the sensor for the oil level was broken and the dealer blew the repair and then the dealer repaired a number of other items they evidently didn't notice on their first inspection.
The radio really kills me though. This is the 3rd radio in a 2000 ML320 with 58,000 miles. The SA says he'll ask MB if they'll 'help' with the cost.
The ML is great to drive but it is the shop every six months for something. The power windows in the ML will break, its a given. When I complained my driver window switch broke, the SA told me "that's nothing, usually more than one break at a time". Nice consolation.
To EDXIAN, I would recommend against buying a 1999. Supposedly the 2000 is better but I am seriously thinking of dumping this to avoid future big dollar repairs, so I would avoid a 1999.
My brother-in-law had a 1999 ML for about 2 years before trading it in on a BMW X5 which he loves. Now I understand why.
Consumer Reports just rated MB as the second worst quality car (above Cadillac) and specifically mentioned the M class and C class as the reasons why.
The dealer gave me a C240 sedan as a loaner today which I loved (most of the their loaners are Altimas but I always get a Benz because the first month I owned the car they had it as much as I did) but MB quality scares me so much I'll get a 3 Series if I want a car like.
If MB spent as much on quality control as they do on advertising, it would be a worthwhile automobile.
The first time to own the MB ever, I bought 2000 ML320 in Nov.2002. On the day I picked up the turck from dealer and drove to home, the oil level light came up so I took it to the dealer to add some oil. It has been 4 month and drove for around 3500 miles, I noticed the oil level light again. When I took it to the dealer they've said that it is normal for MB to burn about 1 QT per every 1,000 miles. ??? Is this true??
Anybody have same experience?
goodies. Asking price $2600. I am located near Utica NY.
Most mfgs publish max oil consumption figures that are quite high - in the range of qt/1K. At this level, I'd complain and they will usually do something, but once I was in the range of qt/3K, I'd just live with it. Oil consumption is an annoyance, but as long as it isn't excessive, it has nothing to do with how "good" the engine is or how reliable it will be. It's just one of those things that varies from engine to engine.
The class action suit has to do with extended oil changes when non-synthetic was used. If you suffer a lubrication related failure and non-syn was used when serviced by MB, then they'll fix it up to (I recall) 100K.
- Mark
My point: People get all excited about oil consumption, WAY out of proportion to the neglible expense/hassle. And it has virtually nothing to do with the overall quality of a vehicle. In fact, there is some evidence that engine features in more expensive Euro cars that promote long life and durability (e.g., Nikasil cylinder coatings) do tend to make break-in more difficult and somewhat increase the chances of higher oil consumption.
But mostly a random noise thing across samples, whether it is Chevy, Ford, VW, or MB. The oil consumption you get with a new car is mostly a roll of the dice, with some minor influence on how the car was broken in. It has nothing to do with quality.
- Mark
My wife and family barely escaped serious injury several days ago when the power steering failed while on the freeway. Fortunately, she was on a straight freeway section, but the failure occurred during traffic and she changed several lanes involuntarily and ended up in the median. Vehicle is a 2001 ML-430 with 32.5K miles.
After giving up on TeleAid (do they have more then one employee?), I tried to muscle the car home and was amazed at the difficulty in steering.
When the steering fails - and it fails very fast - the car cannot be controlled by a 5'2", 90lb female!!! I can bench-press well into the 200's (even at my age) and I could not control the vehicle.
I reported this to 800-Call-Merc the following morning as well as to my local dealer. While both were polite and apologetic, neither really seemed to be concerned about safety issue. I was astonished. My entire family could have been killed.
Someone will be killed or seriously injured under this failure scenario. Don't let it be you or your family. I'm reporting it here for your safety.
My wife said that she heard a noise like a high-performance motorcycle and was looking for it in the rear-view when the steering just "disappeared". Apparently, this was the power steering pump failing. You've got about three seconds after you hear that sound to get your life in order.
I'm not comfortable trusting my family in an ML any more. The reliability of this vehicle has been abysmal. However, I draw the line with my family's safety. This is a severe safety flaw, and Mercedes does not appear to care. Someone else will own this car by the weekend.
Be safe & good luck!
Joel King
San Antonio, Texas.
You've had the infamous clamp failure. We've known about it for a good 6-8 months already on most of the ML forums. MB still hasn't issued a recall :-P
Questions:
1. How did power steering failure cause your wife to involuntarily change lanes on a straight freeway section? Didn't the failure cause the steering to become very hard to turn? If so, I'm perplexed how the car started changing lanes involuntarily.
2. How do you know you personally can't physically turn and control the car if the failure occurred while your wife was driving? Did you intentionally turn off the engine while in motion and check it yourself? If you attempted to turn it while the vehicle was stopped, then you're adding the static tire friction to the resistance which isn't representative of the effort required when the vehicle is moving.
I agree that the ML has a poor reliability record and that the power steering clamps are a trouble spot. But I'm skeptical that that ML is any worse than other vehicles if the power steering fails.
- Mark
We've had two owners come in and say that the ML is unsafe and say that any oil consumption is unacceptable. Their entitled to their opinions, but I think it useful to see if their positions are reasonable.
My ML has had a few problems (mostly early on), but overall 45K miles later, it has been a pretty good vehicle. Of course, any one person's experiences are anecdotal.
- Mark
Mr.Pappu Rajesh can you be kind to mail me the copy-if you give me your e-mail address then I will send you my address.
Thanks a lot!!
Make: MERCEDES BENZ
Models: M CLASS
Years: 1998-2003
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 03V121000
Recall Date: MAR 26, 2003
Component: STEERING:HYDRAULIC POWER ASSIST:HOSE, PIPING, AND CONNECTIONS
Potential Number Of Units Affected: 211000
Summary:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES, THE HOSE CLAMP USED TO SECURE THE POWER
STEERING FLUID COOLING HOSE TO THE POWER STEERING FLUID COOLER MAY NOT
PROVIDE SUFFICIENT CLAMPING FORCE FOR THIS CONNECTION.
Consequence:
THE LOSS OF POWER STEERING FLUID MAY RESULT IN DIMINISHED POWER STEERING
OVER TIME AND ULTIMATELY CAN DAMAGE THE POWER STEERING PUMP.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL A NEW HOSE CLAMP ON THE POWER STEERING HOSE TO THE
POWER STEERING COOLER. DURING CLAMP REPLACEMENT, THE POWER STEERING
COOLING HOSE WILL BE INSPECTED AND REPLACED AS NECESSARY. MERCEDES-BENZ
HAS NOT YET PROVIDED AN OWNER NOTIFICATION SCHEDULE. OWNERS WHO TAKE
THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE
AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD
CONTACT MERCEDES-BENZ AT 1-800-367-6372.
Notes:
CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY
ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
Registered owners should shortly be receiving notices from MB.
- Mark
Others' experiences seemed to point to the fact that the problem for most was associated with starting the car after having sat idle in very cold weather. Probably the hose contracts somewhat in the cold and renders the clamp less effective.
I'm perplexed why there is only a single line (that I can see) from the PS pump to the radiator. Doesn't there have to be two? Is there one underneath that can only be seen from the bottom?
- Mark
http://forums.benzworld.org/publications/pub.asp?id=93
P.s., there is a clamp at the bottom and I think that is the one you want to check--the hose should be up against the radiator fitting.
Honestly, it takes 5-minutes to tighten the clamps which probably solves the whole thing, or another five minutes and $2 worth of hose clamps if you want to to replace them. So it isn't a big deal IF you know about it. The real problem here is not with the difficulty in the repair, it is with the insidious nature of it to owners who haven't been advised about the issue.
- Mark
http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20030411-12340450.htm
The print edition has some photos of the wreck but the on-line version doesn't.
Steve, Host
I have a ML350 with about 5K miles on it and I'm noticing a few issues with braking and I wanted to see if I'm just being silly or if there is really something there. After all, this is the first vehicle I've owned with ABS and other computer enhancements - my old truck ('89 Toyota - traded) and my little '83 Rabbit GTI (did)do not have these things so perhaps I'm just not used to the feeling.
First, when backing up (engine speed at or near idle) hitting the brakes hard results in the truck stopping in about 16-18 inches - about twice as far as my minivan takes to stop going the same speed. The Rabbit stops pretty much on a dime. The main reason I noticed this was a neighbor's child ran behind the truck one day when backing out of the garage. No, I didn't hit her, but I felt the truck took too long to stop.
Secondly, when braking hard for a stop light from 50 or so MPH it does not seem to stop in a linear manner. It seems to vary in the application of the brakes even though I have not changed the modulation of the pedal. These are not panic stops - just the kind of braking where you need to stop pretty fast but not in desperation.
So, anyone else see this? The ML320 loaner I had a few weeks ago did not seem to act this way - but I was not really testing it at the time.
I'd suggest you test the backup behavior a few times on a deserted parking lot. Maybe it was a one time thing.
The non-linear problem is a well-known issue in late model Benz brakes. Many people attribute the problem to the braking computer which attempts to anticipate when someone is making a hard stop and applies the brakes more quickly. (Safety experts believe too-gentle early application of brakes in emergency situations is a leading cause of accidents.) If this is the problem, then there really isn't anything you can do about it, although you'll adapt over time.
You do want to make sure there is no air in the system and the brakes, in general, are up to snuff. At your next service, I'd mention these issues and request that they bleed the brakes and give them a good inspection. Perhaps something is wrong.
- Mark