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Comments
The first service to be performed on a new vehicle is a B-Service. Then, if the distance driven since the last B-Service is less than 14,000 miles, an A-Service should be performed. If the distance driven since the last B-Service is greater than 14,000 miles, a B-Service should be performed. On models equipped with FSS which evaluates engine temperature, oil level, vehicle and engine speed, distance driven and time elapsed since the last service, the type of service to next be performed is indicated in the instrument cluster.
- Mark
I recently took my 2001 ML320 for a ton of work (new breaks, tires, piece fell off the moonroof, loose glove compartment door-the usual ML junk) and they gave me a ML 350 loaner. To my surprise, I actually felt that the ML320 had a better ride and even better acceleration. Was it my imagination, or have others had the same experience?
Guess I will keep my ML 320 for a looooong time since there appears to be no significant reason to upgrade my wheels.
I believe the 2002 also added 17" wheels as standard for the ML3xx, along with new tire models, and there are changes in ride characteristics.
Please also keep in mind that the vehicles have an adaptive transmission and a loaner may not respond in the same way you expect.
I am surprised at comments that the ML350 felt rougher. Starting with 2002, there were suspension changes that many think made the ride somewhat more compliant and smoother. I wonder how much of this is the difference between driving an older vehicle with its suspension "softened up" with use vs. a relatively newer loaner.
blueguydotcom "Town Hall Test Drive Team" Jul 28, 2003 2:24pm
Steve, Host
But I think the review in the link above is totally negative. Don't bother to read it if you already haven't.
The person definitely has a bias against the ML. His last line sums it up.
To quote the author:
"Consider far superior offerings from Acura, Infiniti, BMW, Volkswagen, Nissan and Lexus."
Edmunds HOST. Be nice, fair and don't delete this post....
The ML is a SUV, did the guy even go off road once? Where it will beat Acura, Nissan, Infiniti, BMW, Nissan and Lexus handily.
The ML is a utility vehicle. Did the guy try to stuff 15 trash loads of stuff in the passenger compartment? Which I did, and which can never be done in the Infiniti and BMW?
Has he even driven the Tuareg, or FX45 or the RX330? Does the Murano, FX or BMW even have the option of 3rd row seats?
Is there even a check for competency before being allowed to write for THR or can anyone do it?
I don't think many dealers encourage test drives off-road, btw - Land Rover may be the exception with their parking lot courses. Ditto on stuffing a new model with trash!
Steve, Host
Taking the SUV acronym apart the U stands for UTILITY! Hellooooo anybody out there.
The review even questions whether the ML is a truck or not, did they even look underneath or towed anything at all, in five years of ownership (ML430 trouble free) I have been towing, many times my 25 Ft fishing boat around 6000lbs loaded with tandem axles trailer, I have towed once in off-road conditions an 8000lbs load (tractor on trailer to a camp) the ML did it with no problems, the real question is whether those other grocery haulers are trucks or not with the exception of the Tourareg they are cars on SUV uniforms.
Take a look at this picture I took at the plant a few years ago, the ML transmission and frame and see if any of the darlings mentioned look this big and strong.
http://www.funtigo.com/mltransmission
The slanted hood is there for a reason, visibility, any ML owners, can you see any hood while driving or all road? Did you think the ML handles well or is the article correct? Are all the other negatives correct or not?
From the first sentence to the last the whole review is a bash, I find the writing style very familiar, is to be found at the Mercedes and VW bashing topics like at News&views, is this a Camaleon game? It reads like the biography of a serial killer, the author makes a little effort and finds a couple of bright episodes in his childhood. Is Edmund’s a professional and objective site or agenda ambassadors?
HOST, if you think I am wrong read it or read it again, even a small thing like opening the hood is a pain for the reviewer, full of negatives, I just hope he did not hurt his wrist.
From the same author, excerpt;
“The Corolla is the leader in reliability and you can pick up a used one for a song. A used civic also will cost peanuts and will definitely run forever. avoid a 2.0 jetta, especially a 2000 like the plague. burning oil, window problems, etc.”
I don’t think in downtown Tokyo I will find more negatives.
My two cents.
I'm one of the lucky ones with a 1998 ML-320 that's had very few problems. Sure, I get frustrated by the 20,000 mile brake pad replacements and the rubber trim that keeps falling off the sunroof but other than that I've had 116,000 miles of trouble free driving.
I bought an extended warranty which started at 50,000 miles but so far have not had one dollar in claims. My warranty runs to 150,000 which I'll hit in about a year.
This all leads me to ask how many other folks have hit the 100,000+ mile mark? For the few of us who have, I hope we'll all continue to have many more trouble free miles ahead.
Jethro Jackson
I've but on these forums for years, and while bluedot seems like a reasonable guy and is certainly prolific, he has an opinion on everything, many times making snap judgments on subjects he's only vaguely aware of. I've been as big a critic of the ML as anyone, but this review was out of bounds and close-minded.
- Mark
Road Tests & Awards
Recent stories have focused on the ML 500.
Steve, Host
"I HATE THE ML WITH ALL MY HEART"
He would have been more honest too.
Regarding bobeberhardt's comment that he thought Edmund's was an unbiased sourced of info, the prices maybe, but TownHall definitely not. TownHall is inhabited by fanatics.
You have to be very wary of advice you get.
I used to frequent an EDMUNDS topic called "Ask the dealers". One time a guy was a victim of bushing. This is where someone takes delivery of a car, then the dealer calls them back and tells them that their financing didn't go through and they'd have to pay more. THIS IS ILLEGAL. The poor guy asked the salesmen on that forum for help and the salesmen all told him he should have read the contract more carefully. No one told him he was the victim of a scam. Those salesguys really lived up to their reputation.
The exchange was already a few weeks old so I couldn't help him, but I was so disgusted that I left the topic (and had to wash my hands afterwards). If anyone wants to read about bushing, here's a newstory on it.
http://www.komotv.com/buyerbeware/story.asp?ID=25838
This long note is to show everyone just how far Mercedes Dealers and Mercedes Benz USA are willing to go to resolve problem cars and keep their customers happy. So if you have a problem Mercedes Benz, approach your dealership with this posting or just call the people I mention here.
My wife and I bought a black 2001 C240 sedan with the C-1 memory package, automatic transmission, and heated seat/headlight cleaner package in March 2001. Our purchase was the first sale for our salesman and we were thrilled with our stylish and relatively inexpensive “Baby S Class”. The car has been a joy to drive when not in the shop. In defense of the dealership, which is an hour from where we live, every service call was handled perfectly. A driver would deliver a clean Mercedes loaner before my wife would leave for work. Over the last 28 months we have driven a variety of loaners including; first generation C320 sedan with the sport package, C320 Wagons, C240 Wagons, ML-320, E320 Sedan, C240 Sedan and a ML-350 Inspiration. When the service was completed, our C240 was returned with a light-detailing job to my wife at work or home.
The problems with the car included; four attempts at repairing rattles and groans from the front suspension, replacement of both front headlight assemblies, five attempts at the C1 memory seat/mirror system, three or four key replacements, ESP failure, EBD failure, disappearing mud flaps, cracked speaker grill, and two Tele-Aid upgrades. I might have missed something, but you get the gist of it, lots of little things that I never though I would get in a $33,000 car.
My wife has been a polite complainer throughout, never whiney, just disappointed. She reminded everyone we dealt with at the dealership that our neighbors always asked about our “New Car” every time a different loaner was parked in our driveway. She also told the service manager and loaner scheduler that it was a shame that we might leave the brand. After all, we’re the exact demographic that MBUSA was targeting with the “NEW C” campaign and we also know about how valuable an entry level buyer is in the luxury car segment. After the latest attempt at the recurring front rattles, we my wife decided to contact the owner of the dealership. Cheryl spoke with the owner of the dealership and asked what the dealer and MBUSA could do for us?
After a few days later the dealership sales manager called my wife and told her that since we took advantage of MBUSA Finance to buy our car there was a variety of dealer allowance money he could use to get us into a replacement car with as little pain as possible. When he said this I researched what MBUSA sales incentives were being offered to dealers. I read about the various incentives and financing offers on C-Class sedans, wagons, and MLs.
My wife and I debated the pros and cons of the ML350 and the C-320 wagons for several weeks. Most of the discussion was gas mileage vs. carrying capacity. We knew how the C-Class would drive so the sales manager arranged for two separate Thursday night through Monday night test drives of ML-350s. The first was a basic P37 Inspiration edition. The AMG sport seats are great but the dark wood interior looks like dirty plastic according to my wife. I was more interested in the M2 convenience features but I wanted my wife to experience the car herself. The next week we drove a silver ML350 with the M2 full convenience/charcoal leather package, M5 sunroof, Bose radio/CD changer, heated seats and some lightly used all season floor mats. The exact options we wanted and the bonus of a hefty loaner/demo car discount.
With MBUSA and MB Chase Credits help the dealership offered us an aggressive trade value for our C240 with 30,000 miles on it and dramatically discounted the 3,900 mile demo silver ML350 with M2, M5, 873 heated seats, and 168 Bose stereo/CD changer. I got a three month old ML350, got out of the C240 and MB credit beat the current rate from one of the on line car loan banks. We shook hands and signed the paper work. Our sales person introduced us to his delivery assistant who showed my wife the details of the car for at least an hour past closing while I entertained our 13-month-old son.
In closing I have to admit that I still have my concerns about dependability issues on the ML350. I hope that unlike my new model year C240 that the bugs have been worked out. I think that a lot of MB dealerships need to learn a thing or two about customer service from the people at my dealership. Specifically I would like to thank our salesman and his manager for making the deal happen.
Regards M
Since the past couple of days I have been searching for a used ML320. I am impressed by the safety features that comes this SUV, but going through some of the posts in this forum, I am really worried, regarding quality of the components used, and the frequent visits to the Service station to get things fixed.
I found a seller who has a nice Silver 2001 ML320 in very good condition, with 40K miles on it. The test drive went well, has a good ride. But my question is, is it worth the risk buying this car, when it is 10K miles shy of its factory warranty expiring?
All, please find time to help me clear my confusion.
I'd use this as a litmus test. Assume you're going to have three problems with the car in the first six-months ... based on ML trends, let's assume the a CEL comes on and requires a sensor fix (under warranty), the sunroof makes an awful noise (fixed under warranty), and the brake pads are going to need replacing ($225). If this idea really bothers you, then get a Japanese with a better record (RX300 and the MDX come to mind immediately). But if this doesn't sound like a huge deal and you can accept it as part of owning a nice SUV, go for the ML.
- Mark
Plusses: safe, room enough for 4 comfortably, wonderful power, good fuel economy for an SUV, invites jealousy.
Minuses: ride quality sub-par, some squeeks from dash, stereo sucks, overall quality not what you'd expect for $51k.
My humble opinion: I don't plan on keeping it past warranty, would consider another, wish it was built in Germany, not Alabama.
Miles (est) Problems
0 Trailer hitch installed, wiring kit improperly installed, trailer lights won’t work.
1000 Grill guard didn’t fit, had to slot holes (self installed because parts not there as promised and didn’t want to drive 2 hours back to dealer.
1000 Sold wrong phone, only worked analog, was not aware until too late for dealer to exchange.
1000 Phone installed, gps cable left disconnected, had to take back.
10000 Arm rest dimpled, replaced.
15000 Driver side window switch failed
18000 Auxiliary cooling fan motor failed
20000 Arm rest dimpled, replaced
22000 Fuel pump failed, had to have hauled in
24000 Brake light switch failed (ETS, no cruise, etc)
26000 Rear brakes worn out
31000 Transfer case making noise, changed out after several attempts to convince dealer
32000 Front differential making noise, dealer changed out differential
34000 Door locks failed, replaced module
45000 Shifter bushings worn out, replaced
45000 Noise and small leak in rear differential, dealer says will replace later even if out of warranty if it gets worse.
50000 End of warranty work.
51000 Power steering hose blew off at oil cooler connection, I repaired in parking lot.
52000 CD player quit working.
54000 Lower dash lights out.
55000 Arm rest dimpled, dealer won’t replace out of warranty even though 2 previous replacements.
60000 O2 sensor causing check engine light to come on. Dealer replaced $395.
60000 B service done, $400 even though our understanding was the oil change was free for as long as we owned the car (original salesman represented this).
60000 Dealer won’t honor earlier promise to repair rear differential.
62500 A/C auxiliary fan out again, found blown fuse, ok for now.
63000 Drivers’ window switch bad again, window will not go up.
63000 Transmission hesitating when shifted into gear from park.
Does anyone know where to buy OEM brakes pads for 2000 ML320? What's the brand Mercedes use as their OEM pads for ML320? Galfer USA or Textar? (Jurid or Pagid?)Please post the websites ASAP. Thanks!
Paul
My fronts are going to need replacing soon with new rotors and I plan on ordering from these guys:
http://www.pelicanparts.com
- Mark
Regarding brakes... has anyone tried ceramic brake pads? Upgraded vented rotors? I fully expect I'll need new brakes/rotors with next two years based on what others are saying. Tire rack has OEM brake pad material brakes for $26/pair.... pretty cheap stuff. Ceramic brake pads are about twice that.... must be better.. Just trying to get educated.... If anyone can shed some light on ceramic and or kevlor brake pads vs OEM brake pads, would be appreciated...
Fuse blown on aux cooling fans (twice).
Drivers side window switch died.
Transmission used to downshift hard. (Transmission control module replaced under warranty at about 40K miles. It would have cost me about 500 without warranty)
Besides that I have had no major problems in 58000 miles. It's a 1999 ML320
I called my MB salesman and told him I didn't want this vehicle back. I felt as though it was a lemon. Nor did I want a replacement vehicle. I either wanted my trade-in returned to me (as well as my down payment), or, if my trade-in had been sold, I wanted our down payment + the trade-in value of our vehicle in cash.
The operations manager contacted me and would not accommodate either of my requests. While he agreed to give me a new vehicle, I reiterated that I really didn't want another ML350, as there was no guarantee this problem would not happen with the second vehicle. He would not budge.
My original salesman delivered a new vehicle to me (a clone of my original ML 350). On my 7th day of ownership with the new vehicle, the power steering hose clamp failed for a third time. I have spoken with the operations manager and the general sales manager of Phil Smart. They will not accept the vehicle and return my money. The general sales manager's comment to me was "At some point, you have to realize that we sold you the vehicle, you bought the vehicle, it's your responsibility now. Buying a car is not like buying a suit. You can't return it just because you don't like it." The operations managers remark was "That's what warranties are for."
Both gentleman insisted that NO OTHER ML owners at their dealership have experienced as many problems with the hose clamp as I have.
Has anybody have a similar experience? My wife and I are so terrified the hose clamp will fail again one day while driving on the freeway, we want to do everything possible to return the vehicle to the dealership for a refund. Any suggestions?
Your legal recouse is lemon law proceedings, but the bar is higher than simply two failures of the same component. Basically there has to be in intractable problem that they can't fix in multiple attempts before you can go this route. I would read the brochure though and start keeping very careful records in case it comes to this.
Hose clamps are simply systems. Statistically, it would seem that there must be some common factor to cause these repeated failures - a bad batch of clamps, a bad fitting on the cooler or pump, something not secured properly that is causing unusual vibration or stress, or an incompetent service technician.
While there have been some drivers who have felt that this problem is a huge safety concern, my opinion is that this is being overly dramatic. All cars with power steering, including the ML, can be steered after failure of the power steering system. You have to use some muscle, but the car is completely controllable. So while this is a huge annoyance and breaking down on the freeway would be disconcerting, I don't think there is a good reason to be "terrified". Just drive the car normally and use whatever force you need to turn the wheel. In fact, if and when it breaks again, forget the tow, just drive the darn thing to the shop. If it burns out the power steering pump or something, tough, then can just replace it.
I think your best bet is to get it fixed and drive it. Perhaps, even take it to another dealership (e.g., Barrier) and have them take a look at it. I'm sure if you explained that situation, they'd bend over backwards to get your business. (I'm not saying that Smart or Barrier is better - just that something is fishy in the way Smart is doing the repair, so another set of eyes on this wouldn't hurt.)
And I'd get in the service person's face to explain what is happening. What is failing? Hose? Clamp? Fitting? Are all possible components that could be causing the repeated failure being replaced? Is something not secured properly that is causing an unusual vibration that is fatiguing the fitting or hose? IOW, I'd tell them to stop REPLACING and start FIXING. Or if they can't find what is wrong, then replace EVERYTHING - hoses, clamps, cooler, and power steering pump.
I'd give up on the refund angle. Ain't gonna happen unless you can get over the lemon law bar.
- Mark
Mark
All vehicles are required by federal motor vehicle safety standards to be steerable if the power steering is not working (which will happen if the engine stalls) so I don't know what to tell you if you say that you can't phsically do it. I'd probably advise you to get a different car and maybe even one without power steering - I wouldn't want to drive a car where steering control was quetionable whenver the engine stalled.
- Mark
It seems like most persons who experienced the problem were in colder climes and the car had just been started and was cold.
Anyway, we never had problems. We recently traded the truck in great shape with about 72K miles on it for a '03 ML500. We had a tow hitch installed from the beginning and I noticed on the work order that the dealer had taken care of performing the p/s recall. We now have over 2,000 miles on the "500."
I just looked at the clamp and there is no way that the replaced clamp will ever blow off. The hose is still pushed firmly against the stop with a slight bulge and the clamp is wide and tight and looks very much to me like it clearly is there to stay.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/shoptalk.html
a new switch part number became available Oct '01. Presumably, it has been improved.
On this site there is also a DIY instructions on rebending the contacts to extend the life of the problematic switches. But if I went to all the trouble to get in there, I'd replace the switch.
- Mark
I'm thinking of trading the ML for a larger SUV. I've been looking at the Lincoln Navigator but will decide at the end of the year if I want that particular vehicle. The ML is OK but just "OK" in my opinion. I've enjoyed it but would like a "fold flat" third seat and the power liftgate on the Lincoln is something I would like.
Just my .02. Mark
To confirm that the ML is steerable with reasonable effort without power steering, I did some tests this evening with my 2000 ML320. I got on a deserted road with a downhill grade and coasted down the hill at about 25-mph with the transmission in neutral and the ignition off.
The steering is definitely stiff, but I would be surprised if any normal strength man or woman would have any trouble whatsoever steering the vehicle. At one point, I coasted into a park entrance and did some sharp turns at low speed in the parking lot. As the vehicle's speed decreased, the steering did become stiffer (as you'd expect), but it only got really difficult to turn as the vehicle was coasting to a stop.
My other car is a Lexus sedan and I did the same test. It steers with slightly less effort, but the difference is not significant. You'd expect this as it is a lighter car with smaller tires.
If you haven't done this test, I suggest you do to assure yourself that the vehicle is steerable if the power steering would fail. Specifically:
1. Find a deserted road or parking lot, perferrable downhill a bit so your speed doesn't bleed off so quicky after you turn the engine off.
2. Accelerate the vehicle to about 25 mph.
3. Let off the accelerator and place the transmission in neutral.
4. Turn the ignition off by turning the key ONE NOTCH CCW. (Warning: Do not turn the key to the LOCK position.) The engine will stall.
5. The steering will become stiffer, but you should easily be able to steer the car.
Warning: If you do this test, be careful restarting the car while it is rolling. On mine, you have to turn the key one more click CCW to allow you to turn it CW to engage the starter. When you do this, you're only one click from the LOCK position. To be safe, you might just want to let the car coast to a stop before restarting.
- Mark
Maybe the extra weight of the 5.0 liter engine vs. the 3.2 liter makes the difference in our experiments. Also, my tires are really wide which will add in extra weight.
Mark
- Mark
Mark
It probably is less of an issue when driving on the flats, unloaded in 70 degree weather, but I'd use the octane the engine was designed for when towing, or driving in high heat with the A/C on, or driving with a lot of cargo, or driving up steep hills, or at high altitudes.
Now the ML does have knock sensors, so I don't think you can damage the engine by running lower octane fuel. But it will reduce peak engine power under high stress conditions. So if you are comfortable with turning your 215-hp ML into a 180-hp ML, feel free to use regular. But it always seemed like strange economy to pay extra for a high performance engine and feed it fuel that turns it into a low-performance engine. And the V6 ML is not exactly blessed with a surplus of power, so if you drive at high speeds, tow, or have a lead foot off the line, you're likely using most if not all of the power it has.
C&D had a report about a year ago on using lower octane fuels in cars that require higher octane. Their conclusion: You'll reduce performance by about what you save, approximately 10-15%.
- Mark
Thanks
Michael
I use a Thule rack and cargo carrier (13 cu ft.) and have put this thing through at least 27K miles of use. It has never leaked or failed despite heavy downpours, high wind (80MPH + 30 MPH sustained headwinds across Kansas) and sub-zero cold, and 100+ heat. Cost was something like $400.00 (on sale at REI) for the whole setup. Cheap compared to buying a cheap one and then buying a better one when the cheap one fails.
One last thought, there are some decent "soft" roof top "bags" that might do what you're looking to do too - might try LL Bean, REI, or Lands End for some ideas here. Here's a link to REI's racks:
http://www.rei.com/rei/gearshop/index.jsp?specialty_shop=Racks&am- p;stat=side_18
They are having a sale on the Thule stuff right now if you prefer the hard case carriers but they also list the Sherpak products which might be more to your liking and these are apparently pretty reliable (although I'd wonder about pliablity in cold weather applications - especially when driving though snow, freezing rain, and the like). These kinds of products were not really available 5 years ago, so I don't know as much about them. You might also want to make sure they don't produce too much wind noise. You might buy one and then pack it up like you might use it and then drive it at various speeds to see what the noise is like as well as how hard it is to load and unload. Nothing more irritating than driving 10 hours with a constant whistle in your ear or finding out it is hard to load/unload : )
Happy motoring...
both my colleague and i believed high and low octane work the same 'til we tried. i didn't feel anything at the beginning when i used 87. few weeks later, the engine started to make some sort of whisper noise during acceleration. yeap, switched back to 92 right away. thank god that fixed the problem after few tanks of 92. my colleague experienced exactly the same thing.