Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

mark156 · April 2005

Love..... The third seat in the current ML is not that tight. The second row seat moves forward about 5 inches to allow for extra legroom for adults. The second row (small section) seat-back folds down then the whole seat flips forward to allow for more room to enter the third row area. Normally, all I carry are adults and that happens 10/12 times a year. For short trips to a restaurant or movie, there have been no complaints about it being too tight.

I've seen the G-class in my Automobile magazine and I will take a look at it when it comes out to the showroom. It might be more SUV than I want, we'll see.

Mark

lovemyclk · April 2005

I should have prefaced my thoughts with a disclaimer... I'm a former Rugby player that played over 20 years and have the knees to prove it

Aside from being a large fellow (6'4" and 260lbs), our 2002 ML has been fantastic and I'd take a prisoner if I were made to sit in a 3rd row! Don't get me wrong, I see the allure if you have kids, but still believe MB will point you to the next G/R-Class if you need the 3rd row.

One thought... knowing that the 2nd row does slide forward to accomodate the 3rd row passengers, that all but kills knee room in coach class, doesn't it?

mark156 · April 2005

I guess the discomfort depends on the size of the person. I'm a regular size guy at 5'8" 175lbs so my seat is not pushed that far back. No one has every complained about the leg room in coach class when the seat is moved forward.

Most of my friends are of a much smaller size than you, so the issue has not come up about being cramped in the ML.

Mark

rlmcgarry · April 2005

Yes! I drove it and bought one that will arrive in two days. Love it! One question though -- does anyone know if there's a way to disable the seatbelt warning chime? (it's constant in this model) Please let me know if you do... and if anyone has any specific questions for me, I'd be happy to try to answer!

R

P.S. Please no questions as to why I don't want to wear the seatbelt (at all times) or advice to cut a belt off another car and click it in (I can think of that myself!). I want to know if there's a way to turn it off. I did read about European vs. USA settings and that might be the answer, but until I pick it up, I don't know what the menu options will be... all I know is that in my husband's BMW it drives me crazy!!!

tyresmoker · April 2005

As someone who has been a regular on "the boards" since the Town Hall was conceived, this is about the dumbest question I have ever seen someone ask. I would hope that we all know better then to answer such a request. They call it an "idiot buzzer" for a reason. The easiest way to turn it off is to wear your seatbelt at all times, not just when it suits you.

stever · April 2005

You must have had another name at one point, 'cause Rlmcgarry's user name is several years older than yours.

The seat belt chime may be federally mandated so info about turning it off may be hard to come by. The dealer may not disclose how to disable it if they know, since there could be a liability issue for turning it off.

Steve, Host

tidester · April 2005

I believe the manufacturer is mandated by the Federal government to install chimes and sellers to have active chime systems in the vehicle but I don't recall that there is any provision governing end user deactivation of the system.

In the early 70's, the Congress attempted to require an interlock system such that when the seatbelt chime was deactivated it also caused the deactivation of nonessential systems in the vehicle (radio, tape players etc.) Public reaction was unambiguous and Congress (at the insistence of NHTSA) abandoned that approach though some manufacturers "voluntarily" installed the interlock.

Today, NHTSA is pushing for a "seat belt reminder system" that would basically mandate the chime do its deed for an extended period (5 minutes or more).

tidester, host

tyresmoker · April 2005

Actually.... several different names wrappped around the "carguy" theme. One day I decided that tyresmoker was a far more suitable handle, so I made the change.
I will stick to my point, those that take operating performance machines seriously simply turn off the chime by buckling up....

mercara · April 2005

A couple of months ago, NJ passed a law against using cell phones while driving. It makes sense to me from a Safety stand point. But from a libertarian perspective it scares me. Where does the govt draw the line. Soon our wake up time, what we eat, what we drive, etc, etc, will be specified by law makers. The good thing is that we dont' have to tire our brain thinking about what to do. We'll be told what we can and cannot do.

Call me paranoid, but we'll reopen this discussion 20 years later, if there isn't a law against Internet message boards.

rlmcgarry · April 2005

Thank you steve

Although I didn't want to get into it, of course I wear my seatbelt most of the time. However, there are several instances when I don't want a chime sounding every 5 seconds. As I mentioned, my husband's 2004 5 series has this and it never, ever stops. For example, if we are going to a restaurant/store etc... and he wants to drop me off at the door, I have to keep my belt on until the second I open the door... can't remove it to be prepared jump out so as not to cause the person behind us to wait (until you own a vehicle with the passenger side chime, you don't realize how often things like this happen).

Another example occurs when I need to reach into the rear seat for something (don't worry, tyresmoker, it's generally while we are sitting at a stop light) if you've ever done this, you'd know, it's kind of hard to do if you're wearing a seatbelt! So, I remove it, rearrange whatever we were trying to transport that has spilled/ fallen, all the while to hear ding - ding - ding. I could go on, but my point is, there is absolutely NO reason the chime needs to be constant, 30 seconds of it when you initially start the car is plenty!

There's quite a bit of info out there on how to disable the chime in Fords (click it three times, turn on headlights etc..) I was just wondering -- as was my salesperson [who told me the service people do know how, they just aren't allowed to do it] if anyone has any inside info.

Anyway, thank you to everyone who agrees the new models are a bit overboard on the warning system and I'll let you know if I ever figure it out... I should pick it up on Thursday. Silver ML 350 - can't wait!

R

mark156 · April 2005

Rlmcgarry.... are getting a 2005 or 2006 ML?

Mark

rlmcgarry · April 2005

2006

merc1 · April 2005

Please let us know what you think of your new ML when you take delivery and put a few miles on it.

M

zmanfrnk · April 2005

Anyone know how to disable the FSS light on a 2001 ML 320? Thanks.

rlmcgarry · April 2005

So far I really like the new M-Class. For me, it replaced a C-Class and the ride is much better than that was (of course the price was higher too!) I think my husband even likes it better than his 5 series

Too bad though, it's mine! Let me know if anyone has any specific questions.

R

surffishing · April 2005

I have been looking into the ML430, and was just wondering if the AWD is full time all wheel drive, front and rear pull equal. Or do they run a 50/50 split on take off and then return back to rear wheel only. Also does this vehicle come with four low option...

wmquan · April 2005

The good news is that the ML you're looking at has true four-wheel drive, including low-range gearing. All wheels are getting a virtually equal amount of power all the time under normal conditions.

I think ESP (stability control was introduced with the '99's, so make sure the one you're looking at has it. I also believe that sometime in the middle of the '99 model year there were some improvements made to the interior materials.

stever · April 2005

The '06 M-Class is the current showcase ad at Edmunds.com:

The all-new 2006 Mercedes-Benz M-Class

Steve, Host

lyrickyla · April 2005

Hello,

I am thinking about purchasing a 2000 ML 430 with 56K on it. I have reviewed the service records and ran a carfax and all is well.

However, I have read several posts that makes me think perhaps I should go with another vehicle.

Please advise me on what I should be concerned about.

mark156 · April 2005

Lyrickyla, how much are they asking for the unit?

Things to consider......... how many miles do you drive a year? Can you get an extended warranty?

I have a 2002 ML500. If you are looking for a used ML, 2002 was the model year that Mercedes updated the ML. The front and rear bumpers were redesigned, center console was redesigned where the power window switches were put in a more convenient location, the A/C controls were updated and rear air vents were added, better materials were used in the interior, etc.

My local Mercedes dealership is offering new 2005 ML's for $100 over invoice since the new 2006 ML's are now available.

Mark

lyrickyla · April 2005

Mark,

They are asking $19000 including taxes and fees. I can still get an extended warranty on the car. I drive A LOT OF MILES. Probably 20K or so.

mark156 · April 2005

Lyrickyla,

That's a lot of miles to put on a used car that already has decent mileage. If you decide to go for it, an extended warranty would probably be a good idea.

Mark

lyrickyla · April 2005

Mark,

I live in Atlanta. We drive everywhere here. I am more concerned about all the problems I hear about this vehicle. I had a 2000 Land Rover which was a great truck. People warned me not to buy the Land Rover and it ended up being a great vehicle.

mark156 · April 2005

Personally, I like cars to be under warranty, especially, if drove as much as you. My 2000 E430 Sport has been out of warranty for about a year and a half; I only have 29,100 miles on it. Probably as it gets close to 50K, I'll trade it. At the rate that I'm going, the car will be 10 years old by that time.

My 2002 ML500 has 41,000 miles on it and I'll trade it at the end of this year for a 2006 model (not sure what kind yet). I'm sure I'll be right at 50,000 miles by December so I'll be going out of warranty. I'll be right at the 4 year 50,000 mile warranty threshold.

If I were you, I would buy an end of the model year vehicle and then when it comes time to trade, your vehicle won't appear to have as much mileage. Also, you will have the benefit of a full warranty.

Just my .02... Mark

footie · April 2005

What do buyers/non-buyers think of the new 06 styling?

It seems to me to be an amalgamation of several other existing, popular SUVs instead of a "pure" Mercedes look?

chumsae · April 2005

Lyrickyla:
ML's are a mixed bag when it comes to owner happiness. We've had our 2000
ML320 for 2 1/2 years and we are in the "happy camp" among owners with one
financial hit of $1,200 for the A/C at 70,000 miles. We are now at 80,000 miles.

Part of the negative experience comes from a pattern of real problems with the truck, and real problems with the dealer and manufacturer. Spend a couple of
hours here and you'll see the picture.

Part of the negative experience comes from missed expectations, I think. The ML is our 3rd Mercedes over a 30 year stretch and our expectations are safety, handling, driver enjoyment, reasonable economy, reasonable cost of ownership,
and decent dealer service. We do not expect Lexus style reliability, but something decent. Our now 15 year old Lexus LS400 has been very good but not perfect... at 190,000 miles now, we have previously replaced the A/C twice, and steering rack. A few other things we live with such as broken switches, displays,
and antennas. In our limited experience, Mercedes will see about 30% more faults
than a Lexus. The ML320 fit and finish and A/C do not compare well with Lexus or
MB sedans (at least for the 2000 ML320), but these are not bad at all.

Part of the negative experience comes from dealerships who are under the gun to
improve service revenues and reduce warranty expenses to M-B, which is in moderate financial trouble.

On the positive side there is the enjoyment of the truck itself which offers safety, handling, comfort, good off-road capability, and reasonable MPG (20 average for the 6 cyl.) I also like the A&B service plan at $150 & $300 about every 12K miles
rather than the Lexus $500 at 30K and $1,000 at 60K intervals. At 60K the Lexus
cost us $1,500 versus the ML $1,050, plus wear items. Also, for 2000 model year
M-B paid the first 4 visits, reducing my cost to $150 at 60K. I believe that this freebee has gone away.

Also positive, at 80K the truck drives like new; very smooth engine and transmission, and a solid feel to original shocks and suspension. Few domestic
trucks and SUV's are this tight and reliable at 80K. Some imports can beat it but often at a cost - smaller cargo space, no low range, no ESP, rougher ride, lower MPG, higher maintenance programs.

So, weigh the +'s and -'s. To me it is worth the quirks.

mark156 · April 2005

My 2002 ML500 is still under warranty until this December (4 years).

Also, I have free maintenance until the warranty expires.

The only out of pocket expense have been a set of new tires. (about $700)
I added a wind deflector on the front hood and mud flaps ($400)
Rear brake pads installed at 18,000 miles. ($220) I don't think it needed it so soon because now I have 23,000 miles on the rear and the light has not come on. When I take my ML in for tire rotations (non MB shop), they always tell me that my brakes are getting close to needing to be replaced... I'm going to wait for the "brake pad" light to come on before I change them.

The adjustment I've had under warranty, other than regular maintenace....
*** fix the loose molding at the bottom of the front bumper (twice)
***rear cup holder broke
***squeak in dash at the base of the windshield (90% fixed) rattles on occasion at freeway speeds. The hood was removed and something was done at a body shop at the firewall or just above it. There was a note from MB on how to fix it if a customer complained of that noise.
***one speedometer light went out.

Every car I have ever owned had "adjustments" that needed to be done. I've owned 4 Nissan's, a Peugeot, a couple of Jeeps, and a disastrous Oldsmobile diesel.

This past winter right before Christmas, we had an ice storm. WOW, what a difference if you have AWD with stability control. I felt like I could go anywhere with no problem. On many occasions, the two-wheel-drive cars and SUV's were having a real problem getting around. I drove around many stuck vehicles without any problem at all.

Also, when I went off roading near Joshua Tree National park, it's not a good idea to have mud flaps that are not flexible. I knocked my front mud flap loose and had to have it re attached at the dealer. If they were flexible, there would be no problem.

Footie, I like the new 2006 ML style... it definitely looks like a Mercedes product to me and not much different than mine, especially the shape of the windows.

Mark

unsure32 · April 2005

I am buying a new SUV and my husband and I are in disagreement about what to get. I want the Lexus GX470, and he wants me to get the new ML500. The main thing I don't like about the ML500 is that I feel cramped sitting in the drivers seat (and I'm a small person). I just don't feel like there's much room to move in. Can anyone give me any advice on which to get?

mark156 · April 2005

Unsure32, I'm surprised that you feel cramped in the ML. I'm a normal sized guy and I have plenty of room.

One obvious difference is that the Lexus has that "BIG" swing-out door instead of a lift gate. That type of design does not work for me. For one thing, it opens backwards. If you are parallell parked, you are in the street trying to unload groceries, etc. If you pull into a garage and close the garage door, it better be deep for that big door to open. The lift gate on the ML acts as an umbrella when raining if you are loading things.

The 2006 ML's do not offer a third row seats like mine; the Lexus does.

Mark

hang · April 2005

I am thinking about purchasing the 2006 ML350. How much would it cost me if I only want leather seats as my only option? I used the "build your own" on the MB website and it was confusing b/c it seemed that I had to get the sunroof in addition to the leather. Why is the leather option costing over $6000?

mgreene · April 2005

finally the voice of reason. it never ceases to amaze me the number of people that despite all of the evidence to the contrary, believe they can have it all! you cannot have 7 passenger space and cargo room simultaneously, unless you are going to increase the size of the vehicle sic tahoe surburban expedition. then these same people would [non-permissible content removed] about fuel economy and the bulk of the truck. the new ml is a midsize suv, it does not have floor pan space for a third row that could comfortably accomodate anyone other than 2-3 children. and putting children in the third row of a mid sized suv even the new longer wheelbase m class is lunacy. in the event of a moderate to severe rear end collision there is not adequate buffer between the third row seat and the intruding vehicle. guess who becomes part of the crumple zone! how does that grab you? still want to be trendy???????

lovemyclk · April 2005

Exactly! Functional design dictates that to accomplish a particular mission, the design should be optimized to satisfy the objectives of that mission. If I'm hauling tanks, Hummers and troops, the C-5 is a better functional design than a 747, although the 747 may have better "performance" characteristics.

Same thing with autos... if carrying 7 is your objective, plenty of folks would love to put you in a minivan. Unfortunately, functional design does not translate into the "cool" factor craved by today's buyers. Until the new R and G-Class vehicles hit the streets, MB may not be your best alternative for hauling the troup. Fantastic choice, however, for that family of four!

wmquan · April 2005

... it does not have floor pan space for a third row that could comfortably accomodate anyone other than 2-3 children. and putting children in the third row of a mid sized suv even the new longer wheelbase m class is lunacy. in the event of a moderate to severe rear end collision there is not adequate buffer between the third row seat and the intruding vehicle. guess who becomes part of the crumple zone! how does that grab you? still want to be trendy???????

You're missing a major point here. There is a vehicle that comfortably holds 2 kids in the thrid row, and provides an exmplary level of safety even in a rear-ender. There are photos of it being rear-ended at 50-60 mph with zero intrusion into the third row.

It's the 1998-2005 M-class.

The Volvo XC90 also has impressive rear-collision protection and yet still manages a third row that is more than roomy enough for kids.

So yes, you can have your cake and eat it too.

I don't expect cargo room with the third row in use, but I expect the flexibility of having a third row to use for short-term passenger carrying.

mgreene · April 2005

i don't know that i am missing anything.i believe i am asking is the prize worth the potential price? for me the answer is no. furthermore, the majority of posters bellyaching over the lack of a third row seat are not thinking in terms of merely hauling the wee folk, they want to put adults and cargo in something not designed for it. i guess as long as you are right you can have your cake and eat it too. but if you are wrong, that is one bitter bitter cake. your choice.

wmquan · April 2005

What you're missing is:

... putting children in the third row of a mid sized suv even the new longer wheelbase m class is lunacy. in the event of a moderate to severe rear end collision there is not adequate buffer between the third row seat and the intruding vehicle. guess who becomes part of the crumple zone! how does that grab you? still want to be trendy???????

You're saying that a third-row in a mid-sized SUV is not safe. The 1998-2005 M-class has proven that it IS safe, by using the proper design. So has the Volvo XC90. They have engineered the chassis so that they can safely take a hit that would probably collapse the third row of some of the lesser, full-sized SUV's or minivans.

merc1 · April 2005

I thought everyone knew that Mercedes left off the third row because they want you to buy the pricier G or R-Class vehicles. True the R and next G are built on a long version of the same chasis, but I have no doubts in my mind that Mercedes a leader in safety could have built the ML with a third row and still have the level of protection their cars are famous for. The E-Class wagon has had a third row seat either as standard or as an option for at least the last 20 years. Haven't heard anything adverse about this setup when it comes to rear collisions. This seat even faces rearward!

They did this to give the G and R reason for being, not because they couldn't engineer the ML to be safe with a third seat. Mercedes has for sure slipped in reliability, but safety is still one of their strong points.

M

rlmcgarry · April 2005

It depends if you want leather inserts or full leather seats. My '06 ML 350 has the leather inserts and I think that's just fine, no one would ever know -- and IMO they hold their shape better after a few years (leather tends to stretch).

Anyway, if you want the leather inserts, you must get the Trim Package costing an additional $2,200 which I believe also requires the Sunroof Package costing an additional $1,390.

For full leather, you must order the Premium Package costing an additional $6,150 and also the sunroof package at $1,390.

I could be wrong about the sunroof thing, but I think that's how it works.

jsegovia · April 2005

I've just purchased a pre-owned '04 ML350. The dealer says Mercedes recommends premium unleaded gasoline but he says there should be no impact other than the occasional engine knock if I always use regular.

Is this true? Should I plan on using regular gas? If this isn't as good for the car as premium gas, would it help if I mix it up a bit?

Thanks very much in advance.

Jesse

suliucpa · April 2005

I am thinking to buy brand new 2006 ML 350? If you bought it, can you tell me how much did you pay for drive out price?

Jimmy Liu

wongfeihong187 · April 2005

I just placed an order for mine with my specific options I wanted. I put down 1K deposit for a delivery date in three months. Believe it or not I got it for Invoice price! There were a couple of dealers willing to sell for a couple hundred over invoice. Be patient, the dealers want to sell you one, trust me

.

WongFeiHong

stever · April 2005

That's exciting - where are you located? We'll expect a full report in the Mercedes Benz M-Class: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion.

Steve, Host

calbrit · April 2005

I am a big fan of the Land Rover brand so extremely biased, but why do Mercedes dealerships the minute they have a brand new exciting vehicle, start selling them for invoice and trash the value of the product. I was very excited about the 2006 ML, but it sounds like the dealers have to give them away to sell them. One dealership told me they are too expensive compared to the 05's.

I know a lot about Land Rover's and take theLR3 for example. I am not saying it is a better car, but the vehicle is priced at $45-$55 and they by and large don't discount the car, especially the HSE model. It doesn't make me feel enthusiastic about a car if the dealers have to give it away and flood the market.

hang · April 2005

Calbrit,

Maybe you have tons of money to throw around, but a lot of us don't mind getting a good deal on a vehicle. There is nothing wrong with a discount. If you like to look like an idiot and get ripped off, then enjoy paying full price.

gjacob · April 2005

I am looking to lease an ML 350 I was wondering if price is negotiable in the lease, and what should I look to put down , and what is a reasonable payment . I was thinking from 650 to 750

wongfeihong187 · April 2005

yes leases are always negotiable! You can choose to go with MB when you lease, or you can find outside lenders for leases. Check the web. make sure you do your math before you lease!

carmaven18 · April 2005

We're thinking about purchasing a 2006 ML500. But I have a few questions: is the power liftgate worth it to buy? Is it really that hard to close the trunk without it? Also, "premium interior lighting" is an option. What exactly is this, and is it necessary?

svinaik · April 2005

What do you folks think is the fair price. I have owned ML 320 in past and am well aware of the strengths and shortcoming of the ML. But at a very attaractive price, ML may not be a bad deal.

One of our local dealer (Non MB) has a trade in ML 500 and is willing to deal. It may have been sitting for some time and that's why he is willing.

Please share your comments and advice..
Thanks

newmbfan · April 2005

I currently have a c320 wagon that has been a great vehicle. I need to add a second vehicle to my garage and just drove a 2003 ml350 with 19800 miles.

The vehicle appeared to be perfect. Does anybody have advice for me as to what to look for. The vehicle is a 1 owner that was sold and traded back to the same dealer. They are going to get the service records for me on Monday.

The asking price seemed about right at $29,800 and they indicated there was some room to haggle.

david99ml320 · May 2005

I have the same problem with my 99 ml320.
I had the Check Engine light coming out. Check with a friend who has a ODB reader, the error is P0170 and P0173. Iread from the net it is most probably the Mass Air Flow sensor to change ar maybe just to clean ? Anyone knows how to do that ?

Thanks

david99ml320 · May 2005

Have the same problem with my 99 ml320 47K miles.
Is it difficult to access this sensor (the MAF one) ? I just would like to get a look at it before to go to my dealer. He may tell me I need to change the whole engine !!!!! :-)

Thanks,
David.

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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