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Edmunds TMV the Magic Number

Edmunds.comEdmunds.com Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 10,315
edited September 2014 in General

imageEdmunds TMV the Magic Number

Edmunds.com's True Market Value (TMV) is a powerful tool for car buyers and sellers. Here's how to use it to get a great deal on a new or used car.

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Comments

  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    Does TMV include incentives...its not clear here nor do I see incentives listing with the pricing any longer.
  • philip17philip17 Member Posts: 25
    The TMV will factor in "dealer cash" at the appropriate ratio. Also, if a customer cash incentive is available nationwide, will show up on the pricing page. However, many incentives are regional or restrictive (such as a military bonus) and will not appear. So it's always best to go to the incentives page and search separately: http://www.edmunds.com/car-incentives/

    Philip Reed, Senior Consumer Advice Editor

    Philip Reed, Edmunds.com Senior Consumer Advice Editor

  • mrs_eggmrs_egg Member Posts: 1
    When hoping to get TMV, does it matter if I am planning to finance the car vs pay cash for the whole thing?

    Also, when do I factor in the trade-in value of my car. I thought I should negotiate price first and then bring up trade-in, but maybe not. If they give a better than expected price for trade-in (one dealership has looked at my car and given a number that is good based on Edmunds and KBB), can I still expect TMV?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Dealers make money financing cars so it's probably better not to mention that you are paying cash until you have a firm price. Tell the salesperson you have financing lined up but that you'll give the dealer a chance to beat the rate, but meanwhile you want to talk price, not how much your payments are going to be.

    Your trade-in is a separate deal but it's hard to keep the new car purchase and the trade from intertwining. If you know the TMV of your trade, and the TMV of the new car, you can look at the bottom line and see if you are getting an ok deal or not.
  • iambarryr2iambarryr2 Member Posts: 1
    The Total Cost of Ownership is a very helpful figure, but rather than having to look it up for each car, I'd like to be able to see lists of cars sorted by their Total Cost of Ownership. Is that a feature that anyone has considered adding? That would be very helpful.
  • benrey23benrey23 Member Posts: 42
    I am a car salesman. I appreciate Edmunds and all the information it makes available to consumers. I do wish they would verify there information such as when comparing vehicles because they get alot of options ect. wrong. That is a dicussion for another day. I look at the price selling this way. As a saleman my goal is to earn your business today and in the future. I hope you feel comfortable in sending your friends and family my way. That is how a good salesman is successful. The problem I have with Edmunds is they believe you should never pay MSRP. Well first off if a vehicle has alot of inventory the manufacturer will have rebates so what is wrong if the set price is sticker but the consumer gets rebate off that price. I get paid 25% of front end gross (difference between selling price and invoice price plus dealer holdback). If that equates to $2000 (very seldon is it $2000) then I make $500 commission. Most consumers do a 60 month loan so my commission is a whopping $8.00 a month. What are you getting for $8 as a month. A committed salesman that you can rely on. Someone other than a service advisor to vent to. Someone that will pick your car up and drop it off if need be. Someone that spent hours in product training to be able to help assist you. If a vehicle has no rebates then it is selling well. Why should we reduce the price from MSRP. By doing so we are reducing the value. Nothing wrong with paying sticker on a vehicle that sells well and is hard to keep stock of. I will say the blame for that goes to the usually bigger dealers who have the means to sell many of there new vehicles at close to invoice. In the end all they do is Wal-Mart the smaller dealers. One day I would love for my hardwork in customer service to pay off and a customer say to me. I love the Cruze and you have been good to me. I trust you will continue to be good to me so I have no problem spending an extra $8 month and paying sticker for a car that is truly worth the value of MSRP since MSRP includes the salesman, and dealership.
  • benrey23benrey23 Member Posts: 42
    It used to be cash was king because it took awhile for banks to get the money to the dealers. Today it is almost in a day they get the money barring no issues with the paperwork. The only thing holding back a trade does is cost more time. I have only had one deal this year where the trade allowance was different than ACV (actual cash value). It was a 99 G.Caravan with 195,000 miles. She wanted 1800, we showed her 1800 but ACV was 1000. The 800 difference came out of the price (my commision). So as a salesman I say hold back your trade if it makes you feel better, but most of the time has no effect. Mostly because thanks to Edmunds and KBB buyers no the trade values. That actually helps. It used to be customers wanted retail and pay invoice. However we base our ACV on 150 mile radius of what cars are going for at auctions with the same options and dont forget carfax comes into play as well. As for financing. We can usually match or even beat a rate and often times use your nank or CU. I do suggest you know what rate you can get as everyone should. However all this worrying over if I should tell them I have a trade, rate, cash, ect. The only thing that matters to me is if I have the right vehicle for you and if I do will you buy it.
  • thatlaoguythatlaoguy Member Posts: 3
    @benrey23
    If I were to come in and ask for a Cruze and avoid all the salesmen BS, why would I need to pay msrp?
    Why do salesmen require the buyers to pay you for your hard work? That's your employers duties not the customers.
    I've met many nice folks and
  • judelbugjudelbug Member Posts: 1
    Here’s my experience regarding the value of using the www.Edmunds.com TMV when shopping for a new car. First up, I’d never heard of a TMV. I discovered it when I visited Edmunds to check out a Kia Optima SX – which I bought. Before I bought it, though, I did my homework. A beginning point was the Edmunds TMV.
    With TMV in hand, I invited quotes from four Kia dealerships, all through the Internet. A couple of the Web sites required me to enter my phone number but I specified that if either Kia dealer contacted me I would immediately eliminate them from consideration.
    Previously, I had read numerous car-buying articles on Edmunds, and one said that shopping by Internet eliminated pressure from the car-buying experience. Made sense to me and it worked.
    My state is North Carolina. My residence is in the middle of NC (the “piedmont”), so I invited quotes from one dealer in the eastern part of NC, one in the western part, and two in the piedmont – one near my home and one farther away. Western Kia’s Web site boldly proclaimed WE WILL NOT BE UNDERSOLD!!! PERIOD!!! The salesman from that dealership “backed-up” that claim with identical numerous email claims.
    With my TMV stealthily in the background, I began assessing the value of the four quotes I had received. Eastern Kia came in BELOW Edmunds TMV. (I had only revealed to Western Kia that I had the TMV.) The two piedmont quotes were more than eastern’s but western Kia (read, “We will not be Undersold”) came in WAY higher – after adding more than a thousand dollars for “dealer prep” to their quote. Confronted with not only my TMV but with my lower eastern quote (all through email, mind you), the western dealer threw his little tantrum and said, “if you can buy that car at that price, you better do it.” I did it. But not with the eastern quote.
    Eastern Kia had a great price but began low-balling me about the value of my trade-in car – much less than the KBB value and lower than my Edmunds’ vehicle trade-in allowance estimate – effectively raising their price and lowering their quote by lowering my trade-in value.
    Decision day arrived for me. "In my heart," I really wanted to buy from the Kia dealer nearest me because that’s where I would have the Kia serviced and they had the car with the color of my choice (eastern dealer’s car was a color I didn’t want but could live with). But, hey, dollars are dollars, so I was all ready to buy from eastern. Just as a courtesy and, literally at the last moment, though (and because I would be getting my car serviced there), I telephoned the nearest dealership and said something like, “hey, I really appreciate your price quote, but dollars are dollars and I’ve got to buy from eastern Kia because their quote is so much lower – and don’t worry, you did your best but you can’t possibly match their quote.” They did.
    In fact, they even beat eastern’s already below-Edmunds-TMV quote by $500’; gave me the color of my choice; equipped the car better than eastern’s car; gave me a lifetime powertrain warranty, good at any Kia dealership; and gave me free oil changes for life. (Gerry Wood Kia, Salisbury, NC.)
    All of that Internet research and dealing took me about one week. But it saved me about $3,500. And EDMUNDS IS DUE THE CREDIT!
    So do your homework, use the Edmunds site, take your time, use the power of the Internet, do not be pushed, do not be intimidated, do not be BS’d. It may save you thousands of dollars.
    Enjoy your car purchase and feel a justified sense of pride by not being "taken for a ride."
  • ravyn1ravyn1 Member Posts: 1
    I am also a sales consultant, and the problem I find with Edmunds and KBB and others, is yes, people are told never to pay MSRP......however, with todays market and the Internet, ther is no longer the couple grand between invoice, msrp and dealer holdback. If I sell a car at MSRP, which I do occassionally, the most I can hope to make is about 180 bucks. I do also get 25% of the front end gross, but when the difference between invoice and MSRP is $486, guess how much I make on that vehicle? I think if you are going to give trade evals, new car pricing etc, you should let people know that the prices will not necessarily reflect the dealership prices. Plus, should be aware of roughly the difference between MSRP and invoice on certain makes. Usually, the higher the rebates and incentives, the higher the markup. If there are no incentives or rebates, probably just a couple hundred bucks.

    I really do love the TMV!!! It is a great tool to use when you have a customer sitting in front of you and you can show them the TMV of their car!

    Thank you Edmunds for all you do!
  • bamarazorbamarazor Member Posts: 1
    I must say in my experience if the big dealerships are able to under sell the the guy that posted below then you would be a fool to go to the smaller guy. The bottom line is in fact the bottom line.
    When you buy a car the salesman is your very best friend until you drive off. If you need to return for any warranty issues with your car you will find out that you will be treated like a migrant worker at the country club. Not only do they not want you there, they can't understand what you are saying. That is until the warranty expires or you are shopping for another vehicle. Then the magic translator is deployed once again.
    As I said the bottom line is the bottom line for the dealer. Shouldn't it be for the customer also?
  • knight1096knight1096 Member Posts: 2
    mrs_egg, it does typically matter for TMV if you finance over pay cash. The dealerships get a kickback when you finance and are therefore more willing to take a little more off. It is better to let your salesperson know if you have a trade in before you negotiate because if you are looking for a particular dollar amount off, it is easier to work with two cars instead of one (especially if there is no more that can be taken off of the car you are purchasing). Also, it is imperative to think about public opinion when trading in a car (which KBB and NADA, etc do not factor). For example, if gas prices are high, trade in values for SUVs and trucks are lower because in general, people are not looking to purchase them and wholesalers will lowball the trade value to the Sales Manager. Same goes for convertibles -- if it is January in Wisconsin, it is probably a better idea to wait until April or May to trade it in.
  • alvlee01alvlee01 Member Posts: 5
    MSRP...Manufacture Suggested Retail Price...magical word really and having been on both sides of the spectrum both as sales person and as a consumer I feel I have the right to chime in. I've noticed that over the years and because of the dirty antics of the 80's and 90's from dealerships people have this jaded idea that they can pay whatever THEY want for a car. Ok, let's go with that. So if I come to your store (Macy's, Nordstroms, etc.) and I refuse to pay the "sticker" or advertised price...can I just ask for the "invoice"? No. I'd be lucky if I even got a discount unless it was already on sale. Now, from a marketing and business standpoint, what is so bad about a dealership making a profit off their customers? 7-11 does it. So does Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and every business imagineable.

    Now, I've been fortunate to have met some people who just want to feel like they got a deal, so discounting a few hundred bucks is all they ask. But then you get these ridiculous offers where I will tell a customer that the invoice is $18000 and they will go ahead and say they will not pay a dime over $15000...how does that mathematically make sense? It's the equivalent of me going into a liquor store, telling the clerk I refuse to pay $0.99 for a candy bar, but instead want to pay LESS than what he paid for via mass order. So I've come up with a resolution...if customers want to continue haggling and negotiating...FINE. I've made it my life ambition to haggle and negotiate at every vendor I go to...be in the local gas station where I refuse to pay $4.00 a gallon, instead I will demand $2.00. Etc. and so on...you consumers have this self-righteous idea that you can do that at a dealership, so why can't we as people who have a right to make a living to feed our families do it at YOUR businesses? Why should I pay MSRP on an Apple iPad? I know it probably only cost about $30 to make...therefore...i want to pay $15 for it!
  • alvlee01alvlee01 Member Posts: 5
    bamarazor, your comment aboutthe sales person being your best friend UNTIL you drive off the lot is only true at SOME dealerships, not all, so please do not generalize. And to really clarify something to you and hopefully to anyone else who takes a trip down to the dealership for idiotic reasons...your salesperson is not a professional trained certified technician. If you buy the car, and you come back because your brakes are squeaking, or the lights on your dash won't come on your sales person 99% of the time will not know what to do! If you buy a TV at Best Buy and it stops working, you don't go back to the sales person who sold it to you, you go to the people who know, like Geek Squad. If you need new tires you don't go to the sales person who sold you the car, you go to a tire shop. If your shoes wear out faster than normal you don't go back to the sales person who sold you the shoes, you go to the manufacturer...seriously you people need to learn some common sense. Sales people can answer BASIC questions about features, accessories, and maybe differences between competitors...we can't diagnose problems and even if we had the knowledge, the fact that we are not certified technicians prevents us from diagnosing them for you anyways...
  • ndabunkandabunka Member Posts: 24
    ah, er, ...what happened to this True Market Value section of Edmunds? Did a group of car dealers get together and "pay off" Edmunds to remove it? These articles are still here but they link to .............................. nothing?
  • kikinpegkikinpeg Member Posts: 1
    To the salesman on here. If you are a cook and get trained at Cordon Blue in NYC and open a Burger place in Clovis NM, does that mean I have to pay extra because you were classically or do I just pay avg fair price? It does not matter to consumer what or how you got to where you are..I will have a great deal whether you or someone else gets $8 a month.
  • traxemtraxem Member Posts: 2
    To the salesman who said "Most consumers do a 60 month loan so my commission is a whopping $8.00 a month": STOP LYING. This undermines the credibility of your entire comment.

    When a consumer finances a car, the bank writes the dealer ONE check and the consumer then owes the money to the bank--not the dealer. This is true even with Toyota Finance or GMAC. If your dealer is paying your commission on installment, then you can't blame the customer.

    Why would anyone feel bad for the salesman? This is business.
  • traxemtraxem Member Posts: 2
    To the salesman who said "Most consumers do a 60 month loan so my commission is a whopping $8.00 a month": STOP LYING. This undermines the credibility of your entire comment.

    When a consumer finances a car, the bank writes the dealer ONE check and the consumer then owes the money to the bank--not the dealer. This is true even with Toyota Finance or GMAC. If your dealer is paying your commission on installment, then you can't blame the customer.

    Why would anyone feel bad for the salesman? This is business.
  • jayburu2002jayburu2002 Member Posts: 0
    Be careful. Loaded with the TMV, dealers also know what to do with your TMV from Edmunds. THey will say that there is more to it than the TMV.
    You CAN actually go lower. ALWAYS insist on below invoice. Then work up from there.
    ALWAYS check the Dealer Fee. Don't step foot into a competing dealer until you get that.It used to be around $299 many years ago. NOW it can be as high as 799.00 ( Volkswagen loves it).
    Dealers would love to do a fast sale because they are adding on NON_NEGOTIABLE "straight to the owner" $500 profit. Times 40 cars a month.....show him your MONEY!
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