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Snow/Ice winter tires

pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
Winters here again, so this topic should be active
again!

Now that Winter is almost upon us and I have to
buy new snows for my new Ford Focus, I have to
decide which brand. Have ran both the Bizzaks and
the Artic Alpin and like them both. But the Nokian
Hakkapeliitta Q ($89) has really caught my eye
while doing research. Called around to get prices
and a dealer tried pushing me toward Hacook Zovac
W400 ($64). Really liked what I read about the
Nokian's. Not any test info about the Hacook's out
there at all, just what the dealer told me. What
does anyone had actual experence with these tires?
Don't want any info about studded tires!

Thanks, Pat
«13456716

Comments

  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    Should be mounting the Nokian Hakkapeliitta Q's on my 2000 Ford Focus ZX3, all the way around, this Tuesday. Will keep you guys posted on how well they do in the Upstate New York Lake effect snows.
    Pat
  • hengheng Member Posts: 411
    the Blizzaks and the Arctics?
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    I got three winters out of the Blizzaks. 60 miles a day plus xtra trips. Average about 25,000+ miles a year. Sold the car with the Artics so I didn't have them the full winter. Figure the Artic Alpins should have gotten about the same.
    Reports I have read on both seem to indicate a 15,000 to 25,000 mile life, depending on the winter conditions. This is one of the reasons I decided on the Nokian Winter Tire. Long life and excellent traction.
    Pat
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    Got dumped on overnight! No work today, but picked up my Nokian's. Trip to Dealer (in boondocks) was very slow. Trip back home was very fast. Even took shortcut over the hill. Wunderbar!!!!!!!!

    Pat
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    16" on a Sentra - Wow! Have you tryed to come down to a skinnier tire with the same height? The 195/55 is very wide. There are some conversion charts on some of the sites. I left my alloys on, but didn't really want to. With people upgradeing, I can pick up another set. I would not worry about what the wheels look like in the winter. Tire rack shows the hubcaps on their site, plus you get a choice.

    CR rated the Dunlop snows fairly good, but not as good as the Artic Alpin. Had them on my Sentra (13") and they handled real well in the snow and on pack snow and ice. Only had them thru part of last winter.

    Pat
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    Wow!! No problems. They go like they are glued to the snow covered highway. No hype about them, they are everything the company says they are. Now we will have to see how well they wear.

    Pat
  • blumsdenblumsden Member Posts: 15
    Is it possible to install your own studs in tires that are "studdable"? Is there a special tool you can buy or rent? Do the tires have to be re-balanced afterwards?


    Thanks.
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    Watched dealer do it. Seems to be a small rotating stud canister/air compressor, mounted high on wall with plastic tube coming down to his stud gun. Special set up, but does not look expensive. But being special one never knows. Can't answer your other question, but I think I would. Check around the web and you should find answer somewhere. Plus, I don't think all studs are created equal in terms of quality.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I seem to remember J.C. Whitney selling a tire studding kit with some kind of manual installation tool. Looked like more trouble than it was worth , IMHO.
  • rbink1rbink1 Member Posts: 11
    Have been using Nokian tires for the past 10 years in northern Michigan. In my opinion, best snow tire in the world. I just purchased Hakka 1's for my two new cars a few weeks ago. I choose the Hakka 1's over the Q's because of the more aggressive tire pattern. The 1's also are a T rated tire (118 mph). If you want to get through the snow, you might want to consider the Nokians.
  • catmomcatmom Member Posts: 42
    Just bought studded snow tires from Discount Tire.
    The depth of the stud was only about a sixteenth of an inch above the surface of the tire (not the eight of an inch I expected like the tires I used in the 80's).

    Have been driving for about a week (150 miles) and the studs are now just barely above the tire surface. At this rate, I would expect the studs to be flush with the tire by season's end and will certainly not give me several season's wear.

    My question is whether this is normal? Is the studding technology different from what it was several years ago or should I expect the studs to be longer? Thanks
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    catmom,
    When I was getting my Nokian Q's mounted there was another customer there (a rural route mail carrier) was asking the same question. He to was concerned about what would be left by seasons end. The tire store owner (a wholesaler) told him he would look around to see what other stud manufactures had to offer, but he also said that he didn't think there was much hope to find anything better. This rural route mail carrier is driving on a lot of dirt roads and blacktop and he has noticed that the studs do not last like they use to. Wonder what happens when they are driven on new concrete roads.

    There was quite a bit of discussion on studs vs studless on the old "frozen" snow tire topic. Maybe those guys will find this new topic and help us out.

    Pat
  • catmomcatmom Member Posts: 42
    I think I probably wasted my money--got an average tire that won't have any better traction than a normal tire after a short time. My old studded snow tires lasted 9 seasons. Should have probably gone with one of the newer compounds.
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    catmom,
    Kind of late now, but did you check out the Nokian site and their factory studded tire. Very interesting site. "www.nokian.com"

    Pat
  • catmomcatmom Member Posts: 42
    Checked the web site. Sigh. Guess I have buyer's remorse. Have you had a chance to test your Nokias on ice? I'm not really too concerned about getting stuck in snow, but don't like to slip and slide. BTW, I have a zx3 too.
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    I got the Q's without the studs, but they are suppose to be considered a ice tire, comparable to the blizzak or artic alpin. Live south of Buffalo on I-86 (Rt 17). We have had our share of both snow and icy conditions. I can say, having ran the Goodyear F-32, Bridgestone Blizzak (original style) and the Michelin Artic Alpin, that the hakka Q is as good on snow and ice as they claim. Last week had good lake effect snow three days and was able to pass in the unplowed snow covered lane on I-86. The one day the road looked bare, but wet, and I discovered after traveling a few miles and seeing many cars in medium, that it was black ice, Never slipped once. Almost to good of traction, but I knew the road felt different. I really like the way it handles on bare road also. Think it handles better that the stock RS/A's. I waiting to see if I can get the 140,000 kilometers (close to 90,000 miles) wear resistance out of them.

    Might have paid a bit more for them than what I would have for the competition, but if they last as long and maintain their traction ability as the claim, they will be well with it. Have to admit that I took a chance, but think I did my homework well.

    Pat
  • dunkadunka Member Posts: 17
    Do any of you have experience with this Swedish tire. Naturally my Volvo dealer recommends. I am also considering Blizzaks. Vehicle in questions is an '01 V70 T5 with tires that I don't ever want to encounter a snow flake in - 17" Pirelli Sport Veloce 6000.

    Specific Questions - tread life, noise, handling characteristics.

    Any other tire recommendations?

    Thanks
  • dunkadunka Member Posts: 17
    Forgot to mention - I live in the Boston area so winters can go from mild to severe in the same day.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    i live in new jersey, but was born and raised in new england, so i know what you mean about the changing conditions... it's actually quite similar here... i have a 325iC... i currently am using blizzak mz-02's... they worked really well last winter... tread life is "ok", i figure i'm going to get about 25-30k out of them, mostly dry highway driving... not horribly noisy, but really can't comment on that, being as mine is a convertible, there's enough other random noise that tire noise really isn't a factor for me... as far as handling characteristics, well, don't forget you've got them on after you switch from your summer tires... i just live with the fact that 4 months a year it's not gonna handle great... if you do *much* heavy snow driving, vs. light snow/freezing rain/sleet like we get here (and what tends to happen in boston proper), you might want to consider a more aggressive snow tread pattern...

    i would *strongly* suggest winter wheels in either a 16 or 15 inch size as well... skinnier and longer contact patches work much better in the slick stuff...

    tirerack has several different reviews of snows. check it out.

    good luck.

    -Chris
  • md2002md2002 Member Posts: 142
    If you have a car the normally takes H rated tires you should consider the sister tire of the Artic Alpin known as Pilot Alpin. My wifes car was originally fitted with a standard Q rated Ice Compound tire and she found it make the car hard to handle.

    We had them switched (free guarantee) to Pilot Alpin when I found out really needed a better performing tire for her Solara. The difference between the H and Q rated tires is dry vs snow traction.

    H rated will give you a 8 out of 10 on snow and 10 out of 10 on dry.
    Q rated will give you a 10 out of 10 on snow and maybe a 6-7 out of 10 on dry.

    Since in upstate NY you get maybe a total of 25 days of snow covered roads that are not clear yet the dry performance was just as important as snow.

    Check out www.tirerack.com they offered the price that was lower than the local shop by almost $200 less.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    Have read with interest the above topics. Does anyone have experience or an opinion on the value of a winter tire on a 2wd pickup versus a normal all season tire one would find as original equipment on pickups. I carry Z-chains now, but wondering if winter tires would be a safer and better performing alternative.
  • xanadu2uxanadu2u Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone have a great recommendation for the sizing of tires for my Nissan. The manual recommended one size and the dealers often use another when replacing. I live in Virginia and will also be up against snow and ice. Please let me know, need to replace them this weekend.
  • persamppersamp Member Posts: 7
    Anyone out there have any experience with the Toyo Observe snow tires? Local tire dealer here in Boston can get me a set of 4 for significantly less $ than other brands (Blizzak, Arctic Alpins, Pirelli...)
  • pcleveland2pcleveland2 Member Posts: 516
    Here's another board to check "http://autopedia.com"
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    I think they have walnut shells embedded to them for ice crunching. GOod for icy roads. Otherwise an overkill and it's loud!
  • md2002md2002 Member Posts: 142
    I would say it depends on the truck. Is it heavy enough by itself, do you have extra weight in the back? The bigger issue is if people put snow tires on a car why not on a 4x2 truck. I would say it truly depends on where you live and how much snow you get, if you live in New England I would say "yes", if you live in NYC I would say if you live in Georgia, no.

    Good Luck.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I too live in Boston and just got a set of Arctic Alpins for my Y2K Odyssey. First time I have used snows since 1984 - decided it was worthwhile for the wife and kids (and myself too!!) as it is our primary weekend vehicle.

    First impression - excellent. We had about 4 inches of snow last week and the Ody made it up the hill to the main street and the traction control barely kicked in. My Accord would have been all over the place. Although 4" isn't much snow, it was slick enough out there and the tires I believe did their job. Ran them the following day on the highway at 70 mph and they were not much louder than the standard Michelin Symmetry.

    I got them from Tire Rack with steel rims - neglected to order wheel covers. The black rims look pretty ugly. Maybe Santa will bring them.

    As for the Nokian and Gislaved brands - although people rave about them, they were hard to find here in Boston without going to a Volvo or Saab dealer or a couple of exclusive tire emporiums. Essentially, they did not present a very good value to me.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    The problem is I live right where you could get some big snows or nothing at all, DC. But when traveling occasionally to PA or NJ it would be nice to know I've got the right stuff. I don't doubt that winter tires are better, what I can't get a read on is whether they are that much better than regular LT tires. What I'm really trying to decide is should I get a set of Nokian's on regular steel wheels and then mount Michelon Pilot LT's on factory rims for the other three seasons or just stay with the factory Dunlops which have given great service so far. Probably won't know until I try it for myself, just looking for someone who maybe already has.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    A friend of mine was using this brand (bought from his dealer) on his Volvo 850 for the last 2 years. He switched to the Michelin Arctic Alpins and immediately noticed a significant improvement in snow/ice over the Gislaved. I can't say that I've ever been particularly impressed with those Swedish tires. Not like they were inexpensive either!

    Drew
    Edmunds.com Townhall co-host
    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories conferences
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    are good if you see alot of snow and ice. But if u only see occasional snow then u're better off with a winter tire instead of serious snow/ice tires. the gislaves and heavy duty snow tires can get real annoying when the road s dry. Not to mention loud!
  • gmassachusettsgmassachusetts Member Posts: 3
    Living in eastern MA with a novice driver in the family (son, 17), I decided to invest in Arctic Alpins last year for our family sedan, a Buick Park Ave. I checked with the local tire merchant and that well known automotive performance periodical, Consumer Reports. The peace of mind and performance/improved safety are well worth the investment. I would highly recommend these tires for anyone likely to encounter snow or slick conditions while driving. Stopping ability is as impressive as the improved traction, and avoiding one $500. deductible pays for the tires!
  • ckone0814ckone0814 Member Posts: 71
    ok all you experts...am in the process of shopping for a replacement for my chevy blazer suv and am feeling the guilt (and light wallet). i'm leaning towards a volvo/vw/saab non-awd wagon with just traction control, abs, and a good set of snow tires. i live in NE Pennsylvania. any thoughts? any place on the web where tests or info is provided? i thought i remembered a major magazine doing this test (4wd vs fwd/snows/traction) but cant find anything. thanks to all!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I test drove a Subaru Legacy with 4wd right after a snow storm, and with the standard tires it was not as good in the snow as my Acura Integra with 4 Blizzaks. I imagine a wagon with traction control, extra weight (Integra only weighs 2,600 lbs.) and snow tires would do even better than my Integra.

    I think you will be fine with 4 snows. The roads are closed well before I start having any problems getting around.

    btw my father has a Passat wagon and loves it his lifetime mpg is 31. for 2001 the Passat goes from 150hp to 170hp for the 4 cyl.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    Did you know you can get the Passat with AWD now? IMHO, would be a very good choice. Wish I was in the market for a new car.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    An AWD car plus 4 winter tires makes one heck of a winter package! Bring 'em on!!! More snow please!!! =)
  • dunkadunka Member Posts: 17
    Hi All - Following up from my earlier post. Driving a 01 Volvo V70 T5. Had 4 16" tires on steel rims installed about a month ago, they replaced 17" performance tires that I will put back on this spring. Just made it through our first real nor'easter and these tires (and car) are great. Made it up a slush, icey snow covered hill (brother's driveway) from a stop with no trouble, handled the sloppy road conditions flawlessly. On dry pavement the tires feel as solid as the Pirellis that I have resting in my basement. Glad I made the investment.
  • kkelleherkkelleher Member Posts: 9
    Hi! Does anyone have any experience with these tires? I'm considering them for my OB VDC...
    Kevin
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,281
    I live in Alaska and have run Blizzaks for 2 winter then a friend of mine in the tire business pointed me to Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice, its a studless winter tire. I bought a set for my 99 Nissan Quest SE and was very impressed. They are quieter than the Blizzak and don't tend to have the folding feeling in the corners like the Blizzaks. I just sold the van with the Ultra Grip Ice on it but am buying another set this week for my new Jetta. I also found that the Ultra Grip Ice was cheaper than the Blizzaks. We don't have a lot of snow but boy do we have ice. My Quest hardly ever spun a tire, only when starting up at a very slippery intersection. Just another tire to consider.
  • r_scott_gr_scott_g Member Posts: 16
    It's not really that season, but for anyone thinking about tires for next winter, I ran Nokian Q's. I used them on a new Mazda Protege. My previous vehicle was all-wheel drive with ABS. So I was a little spoiled the previous two winters.

    The Nokians worked very well. I almost went with Blizzaks or Observe's, but decided on the Nokian Q's.

    They would of been the same price as the Blizzaks or the Observes, but I managed to get them on a bit of a sale ($110 canadian). They're were a lot cheaper than Goodyear Ultra Grip ice($180 or something insane like that).
  • odie6lodie6l Member Posts: 1,173
    Even though it is now Memorial Day. You will have to soon think about Winter/Ice tires again shortly... I currently have a 1998 Stratus and I got Goodyear Eagle GTII tires on it... they have pretty decent grip in the snow, ice, rain, and when it's dry. I live in Hershey,Pa so when they say it will rain... it could snow, when they say it will snow.. it just may do that very heavily, or it might just rain. Weather up here is so unpredictable NEVER trust it. I looked around at so many different tires I though I was going to go batty. But they worked really good this past winter. And here in PA we have different Seasons than the rest of the world, here are 4 seasons are - ALMOST WINTER, WINTER, STILL WINTER, & CONSTRUCTION. Have you ever seen our roads in Pa... they are just horrible. so up here I needed a tire that could handle many multiple tasks. Dealer actually gave me more for my trade in on the Escape I just ordered 3 weeks ago because of the Goodyears on the Stratus.

    Good luck in you tire hunting

    Odie
  • leogenghisleogenghis Member Posts: 22
    I'm sorry if this idea was knocked about before - if it was just tell me where I can find the archives of it. But here's my situation. I drive maybe around 10-12,000 miles a year and live in upstate NY. I know the best thing to do, of course, is to change into snow tires when winter approaches and vice versa. But I'm in college so I move around pretty frequently, maybe once every year or two, so changing tires twice every year and in addition storing the old tires would be too much hassle. Which would be the better option: use snow tires year-round (Dunlop Winter Sport M2) or all-season performance tires? (Dunlop SP Sport 5000) I wouldn't mind slightly less mileage out of the snows for tremendously improved winter performance. At least I'd be changing tires less than once per year, I guess!

    Thanks for any opinions.

    Leo

    ps. would your suggestions be different if I were driving an AWD instead of a FWD?
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    In my opinion, I'd run the all-seasons regardless of whether you have an AWD or 2WD vehicle. The reason is simple...winter tires are not designed to run in hot weather, and your handling will suffer (emergency handling will definitely be significantly less competent due to the softer tread). Additionally, winter tires do not necessarily work well in the rain, so wet performance may also suffer. The best choice is for you to purchase a set of 4 winter tires on inexpensive steel rims, and simply swap them with the all-season tires/wheels with the snows. It's probably simpler and less of a hassle than you think!

    Good luck,

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Member Posts: 423
    My advice is also the all seasons. However, I do not have any experience in your part of the country. Perhaps all seasons with a pair of cable chains for the real bad stuff would be a better compromise.
  • skijazmanskijazman Member Posts: 3
    For the past 15 years I've had either front-wheel, four-wheel or All-wheel drive vehicles. Living in Connecticut I travel to Boston weekly. Just bought a used 2000 BMW 323i (rear-wheel drive)that has Dynamic Stability control and traction control. Question is: do I need to consider buying snow tires or will the all season tires that came on the car suffice?
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Anyone have any experience with Michelin Pilot Alpin tires for winter snow/slush/ice driving? I am thinking of buying a set with new wheels just for the long Minnesota winters. My P5 currently has 195/50R-16's on. I have found a good deal on the Pilot Alpin's with new rims at Discounttiredirect.com. The one thing I don't like is that I need to step up in tire width to 205/55R-15's. Droping to the 15" rims though should help with frozen slush and pot holes.
  • leogenghisleogenghis Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for the replies guys! (and sorry for my late reply!) So I guess I'm leaning 75% with the all-seasons. But snow tires have that undeniable allure, especially if you've got an AWD vehicle - you have an I-can-conquer-anything-in-this-snow-now-HAHAHA! kind of feeling. Neat. The snow tire I was thinking about was the Dunlop Winter Sport M2. According to Tire Rack's customer survey results, that particular winter tire has superlative dry and wet handling traits, plus the advantages of a "wintrish" compound. I've actually never driven a car with winter tires before! I wonder what it feels like.

    skijazman: Snow-tires are your best choice. Many newer-model BMWs I've seen have winter tires shod in the winter. Even with the ESP feature, having just all-seasons might mean very slow acceleration up hills, or even not at all. And turning corners will be tricky, since power is to the rear and not the front.

    Leo
  • blackgtpblackgtp Member Posts: 19
    I used the Dunlop Wintersport M2 last winter on my Grand Prix GTP. Good in the snow and on ice. The tire still had good wet and dry traction and was able to handle the torque of the engine. I will be putting them back on again in a couple months.
    Don't use winter tires in warm weather because they will wear out very fast.
    Also, I used Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 tires on a Neon a few years ago. These tires had superior snow and ice traction. I don't, however, recommend using Blizzak WS-50 tires on a performance car. The tire tread is so good in the snow that dry traction is sacrificed too much.
  • skijazmanskijazman Member Posts: 3
    I'm convinced about the need to put snow tires on my 323i. Now I have to decide on the "right" tire by deciding which has the best combination of traction and dry road characteristics. The primary tires most sites recommend are the Blizzak, Artic Alpin and the M2. The M2 sounds like a good one and the Tire Rack recommends it for the 323i. As for size I think I will go with the 195/55 on 15" steel wheels. Not pretty, but living here in Connecticut, it's only for 4 months at most.

    leogenghis and others....thanks for the input. I'll keep checking back from time to time to see what the latest input is.
  • robynkrobynk Member Posts: 46
    Hi,

    I am shopping for winter tires for my 2001 Sequoia (16" wheels).

    I was looking at Bridgestone Winter Dueler DM-Z2 245/75QR16. Our local dealers don't stock these and are recommending a Cooper winter tire (don't have the details -- my husband spoke to them) and studs.

    We are in the mountains in Vermont. We drive about half of our miles on dirt roads that have a base of ice on them all winter long; the other half on hilly, curvy paved roads (2 lane hwy) with imperfect snow removal and often black ice. We had Cooper all-season tires on our last SUV (Expedition) and they were pretty good, but we really want to go with dedicated snows to make life easier this time.

    What would you use in these conditions? How will the studs be on paved roads?

    Thanks in advance!
  • guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    I live in Quebec and last winter I installed the Bridgestone Winter Dueler DM-Z2 on my Santa Fe and my brother did the same on his 4Runner. We both agree that these are absolutely the best tires we ever had for both snow and ice.

    I would certainly recommend you go with the Bridgestone!
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