Snow/Ice winter tires

tiff_c · October 2007

Didn't mean you either. I was going to say the Hakkas would be squirmy, but I didn't because I have no experience with them. I just suspected they might be. I did consider them as well but went with the WR's as I like a tire I don't have to mount/dismount due to weather. Due to its' over protective traction control, the Prius needs all the traction it can get!

Yeah I have a LOT of experience with the Hakkas and soon it will be RSi's and they are awesome in the snow but useless in warm weather. I was considering the WR's but my Rex has done such a great job but really I'm holding on in case I get a Christmas bonus but I will have buy something soon. I'll be over 200K miles before long and I've had to stop using the WRX for work to keep the miles down on it.
I hate to mount and dismount tires but usually the snows go on in November at some point and come off 1st week of april or a bit sooner if it's warm enough.
The WR's would be great on a Prius but might eat into your economy a bit. but since it's a city car you probably wouldn't lose much.

I suspect there would be a difference in deep snow between the Hakkas and the WR's, with the Hakkas outperforming the WR's, but only there and on dry roads, where the WR outperforms the Hakka. Compromise compromise. But we don't get deep snow here, usually only small amounts at a time, and usually dry snow. It then turns to ice with traffic driving on it. Six months of that.

Oh be certain the Hakkas will seriously outperform most other snow tire in the snow and ice, but as an all around tire, not a chance. That's why I was considering the WR's but gotta figure what if I get a Speed3 then what? Do I run RSi's for more grip or risk it with the WR's. Keep in mind we get lots of wet heavy snow to powder to wintry mix, a few ice storms and lots of hills and compared to Canada the worst plowing you can imagine! Snow can be deep here no matter what the radio says. They measure it in some huge field where no one ever goes or drives except to check the snow or maybe at the airport and locally we can easily get twice as much. i went outside my house with a yardstick30 inches but only 19" according to the news. I could get 30 anywhere in the area!
The ice storms are what kill you on hills .
Performance cars need really good grip but I think for most cars the WR's would be fine. It depends on how fast you drive. The bonus is keeping the tires year round on the same wheels. Nokians are expensive tires for an all season tire.
We can have snow that lasts until may at least in the woods, So I know where you're coming from.

lpatterson83 · November 2007

I've had two sets of Blizzak's and loved them but never got more than two winters out of each Dec-Ap/ 8 months of very low mileage.

I'm looking for options.....because I had to pay $87 twice a year to get them on and off and balanced...so add $180 to the price of the tire each year.

lpatterson83 · November 2007

I purchased 2 sets of Blizzaks for my front wheel drive Hyundai Elantra. I only got two winters out of each set which means each set only lasted 8 months of low mileage but were FAB tire on ice and through deep snow.

Additionally I had to pay $90 spring and fall to get them put on the rims. The tires cost about $400 plus $360 (2 years of mounting, balancing on my rims, spring and fall $180 yr) for a total of an absurd $760 for two years.

I need some help here. I wanted to buy rims but they run $400 and my car is too new (2007) to buy used rims, so what's a girl to do?

I need 4 snows because I live on a ski mountain in the winter.

Any tips on great snows or what to do with the on and off business?

Thanks all..........

shipo · November 2007

I've had the same experience with Blizzaks, they wear out quickly. That said, I've since moved over to Michelins, first the Arctic-Alpin, and then to the X-Ice (when it replaced the Arctic-Alpins in Michelin's lineup). In the case of both types of Michelins, we've easily gotten three to four winters out of them before they were too thin for good snow grip.

Best Regards,
Shipo

lpatterson83 · November 2007

thank you so much for that tip. Did you have them taken off in the spring and then put back on in the winter/Dec or did you buy rims and do it yourself? thanks for the reccomend

shipo · November 2007

Personally I think it is WAAAAY cheaper to buy a second set of wheels for each car than messing around with mounting and then remounting (and potentially damaging the bead).

Best regards,
Shipo

kiawah · November 2007

Shipo's right, buying rims is the way to go.

When I lived up in snow country, I bought a 2nd set of rims for each of the vehicles (for the drive wheels). That was during the times of fullsized spares, so actually only had to buy 1 rim. They don't need remounted and rebalanced, and I could switch them at my convenience relatively easily, as simple as changing a tire.

mz6greyghost · November 2007

If you can afford it, get a set of rims with the snow tires. Steel wheels work and are inexpensive compared to aftermarket wheels.

paisan · November 2007

Tirerack will also mount, balance and ship you a whole package which is really the way to go. I have had good luck with the Pirelli Sottozeros on my cars.

-mike

dudleyr · November 2007

Get extra rims - well worth the price. I just got 4 Michelin X-ice on alloy wheels mounted, balanced, deliverd for under $700.

When I need new tires I will only pay a little over half as much since I already have the rims.

This is for a Honda Accord.

bhenderson · November 2007

I live in the canadian prairies, so it likely won't get above zero until march, with lots of ice and potentially heavy snow falls. Having AWD I am more concerned with controlling and stopping the car on ice/packed snow. I am leaning towards either Toyo Observe or Nokian Rsi, I can get the toyo's a little cheaper. To get them a little cheaper I think I will downsize to 15 inch rims. Anyone have any thoughts?

hammerhead · November 2007

I've used the Observes on my 97 Outback. This will be their 8th winter, still lots of tread left, but my winter is only about 4 months long. As long as you don't run them on too much bare pavement above 50F, they'll last awhile (apparently)

The Observes are my only experience with so-called 'studless' snow tires, so I cant compare them to any other varieties. Would recommend them highly.

Cheers!
Paul

pathstar1 · December 2007

I've used Nokian WR on a Pathfinder. Very good traction, even on ice (rated by Nokian as good as the Mich. Ice tire). Best part, you can leave them on all year round, as they don't wear too much in summer, don't "squirm", and are fairly quiet. Like the Rsi they aren't a "cheap" tire.

I have them on my Prius. This being the first winter for the tires and the Prius, all I can say so far is they give excellent traction up to now. We haven't had any deep snow yet, just -5C and -20C ice in places. In Edmonton.

bhenderson · December 2007

I have managed to find a good deal on a set of Michelin Primacy PA3, but don't know alot about them. The dealer says they are better than the X-ice. I guess I'll do some research. They are cheaper than either the toyo or nokian plus they are $100 off per set.

woodyww · December 2007

First off, I'm in Mass. And for various reasons I only put 2-3,000 miles/year on my 2000 bmw 5 series (non-sport), altho most of that is April-Nov. (when I'm not snowed in).

Right now I have the crappy stock 16" Conti's, which are horrible in snow. And I actually do have a 2nd set of 16" rims, but the WinterSport M3's aren't mounted on those yet.

There's another possibility, which I "could" do: Sell off the 2nd set of 16" (bmw) rims, & look for a really nice used set of 17" bmw rims w/tires for summer.

But to my orig. question: given my yearly mileage, is it nuts to just use the WinterSport M3's year 'round? I copied a post by someone else here who ran their Wintersport M2's winter & summer:

I just put Dunlop SP WinterSport M3's on my Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX awd - after putting 47,000 on my previous Dunlop SP Wintersport M2's - I loved those, they were great, was going to get again and find that the new M3 replaces it. The M2's were great on snow and ice, and I ran them year-round with good summer handling, no noise problem - I would have been happy to get 30,000 out of them and not be having to switch twice a year from winter to summer tires - so the long mileage was a great bonus.

TIA for any feedback!

PF_Flyer · December 2007

Today's blog entry on the Alternate Route deals with the all season vs dedictated snows question with a bit of a humorous twist :P

tiff_c · December 2007

Looking for advice for a Winter snow tire for a Mazdaspeed3.
I need a rim and tire package and normally run Nokian tires but will need the tires shipped to me as the local Nokian is expensive for rims so figure I might as well go
with a Tire rack package then switch over to Nokian tires later on.
We get a mix of every kind of nasty weather so you never know what it will be doing outside and I travel all over NH, Maine and Massachusetts.
The Speed3 has a lot of power running through the front wheels so that will probably make a difference.
I'm used to AWD and dedicated snow tires.
Some friends suggested Michelin X-Ice tires my concern is when the roads clear up they are fairly dry until the next storm.
Was going to get Nokian WRG2's but they are more an all season tire. All that power through the front end might overwhelm them.
I guess I can just buy rims and Nokian tires but was hoping for a Tire Rack purchase just due to ease of buying.
Any suggestions especially on tires? Thanks

kyfdx · December 2007

I have Nokian WR on my CR-V, but I run them year round... Since I have AWD, I just wanted something that was a little bit better in the snow, than regular all-season tires, but that would still be good for the rest of the year.. I don't think I would get them, if they were dedicated winter tires.

The MazdaSpeed3 has some pretty big tires, right? Rather than the X-Ice, you could get performance winter tires that will be a little worse in the bad stuff, but a whole lot better on dry roads... Look at Bridgestone LM25, Goodyear Eagle Ultra-Grips (I liked these on the BMW), or Michelin Pilot Alpin.. I think we have Dunlop winters on the current BMW (but, I'd have to look).. they are just okay.

regards,
kyfdx

tiff_c · December 2007

The MazdaSpeed3 has some pretty big tires, right? Rather than the X-Ice, you could get performance winter tires that will be a little worse in the bad stuff, but a whole lot better on dry roads...

Thanks but no way would mediocre tires make it up here. You need snow tires or at least something better than all seasons it's not an issue in the summer as I would run summer tires when it gets nasty out. But in the winter you just can't make it up the hills near my house without really good in snow and ice tires.
I will look into those tires you mentioned, thanks.

kyfdx · December 2007

Yeah... the ones I listed are all winter tires... Our 325i was like a tank on the Goodyears.. But, like every tire, there are trade-offs.. You have to give up a little winter capability to get better dry road performance. I think the performance winter tires are worth it, considering you are probably on dry roads, 90% of the time..

Good luck!

mz6greyghost · December 2007

...You have to give up a little winter capability to get better dry road performance. I think the performance winter tires are worth it, considering you are probably on dry roads, 90% of the time..

I agree 100%. For a MS3, I'd consider the Dunlop Winter Sport M3 (or the newer version, the 3D, depending on what fits your car). The "performance winter" tires will work well for you, since they don't turn sloppy in dry weather just for a slight edge in winter driving. Plus, I've found them to last longer than typical winter tires do as well.

For example: My Mazda 6 has a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 "performance winter" tires, and since I live in upstate NY, I know all about lake-effect snow and the terrible winter driving it causes. This is my 4th season with the PA2s, and they're still running well. I've never gotten stuck or skidded off the road, and traction, both in 3" of snow and dry pavement, is outstanding. I've gotten close to 15K miles on them, and they show NO wear, and still attack the snow as if they were new.

I'm looking at the 3Ds for next year, and I think you should check them out as well.

tiff_c · December 2007

Yeah... the ones I listed are all winter tires... Our 325i was like a tank on the Goodyears.. But, like every tire, there are trade-offs.. You have to give up a little winter capability to get better dry road performance.

Thanks, yes it's hard to give up one when you really need it and yet burning through a set of winter tires in one year is no fun either. I do appreciate your suggestions, please don't think that I don't. It's just I live in 4x4 and Subaru country and when you need it you really need it to get home but driving on Jello on the dry roads is frustrating also. :sick:
On my road we have like a roller coaster hill step up and down both ways, more accidents there than I could ever count because it's blind going over the top and often cars at the bottom of this small hill can't make it up the other side BAM! Or they try for a bit of speed to make it up the other side and off into the woods they go.
Thankfully it's not a very busy road the problem with not being busy is it's not maintained as well.
No issues before as I have a Subaru now but probably buying a Mazdaspeed3 will come with winter drama I'd like to avoid. I will check out all the tires you mention on Tire Rack and see.
Thanks again

tiff_c · December 2007

I agree 100%. For a MS3, I'd consider the Dunlop Winter Sport M3 (or the newer version, the 3D, depending on what fits your car). The "performance winter" tires will work well for you, since they don't turn sloppy in dry weather just for a slight edge in winter driving. Plus, I've found them to last longer than typical winter tires do as well.

Just how much winter performance do you really give up?
I've always used Nokian tires and by that I mean the Hakka Q's which is now the RSi but one season is all you can get out of a set and that adds up when you drive as much as I do. I went through 2 sets in one year due to all my driving! These Dunlops sound like they might be ok and having dry performance would really be a blessing as long as I can make it up the hills in the snow and Ice we often get in my area. Locally we get hit worse than the news says.
I'm grateful for the suggestions, i haven't bought the car yet but am considering it as my #1 choice at this time. 80% chance of buying it within a month.
thanks for your suggestions.

kyfdx · December 2007

I can get 3-4 seasons of top performance... That is 4-5 months X 1250 mi./mo... So, around 20K.. If I notice they start to give up a little snow performance, I leave them on until they wear out the next spring/summer...

dudleyr · December 2007

The x-ice actually handles pretty well in the dry for a snow tire. Best of the 4 or 5 different ones I have tried. I also think the max pressure of 51 is a good sign - compared to 44 on many.

If you want max snow traction consider minus sizing the tires/wheels. I did on my Accord. Do you really want ultra low profile when crashing over ice rutted roads?

tiff_c · December 2007

I can get 3-4 seasons of top performance... That is 4-5 months X 1250 mi./mo... So, around 20K..

Thanks, I get about 15K out of a set when I use the Nokian snow tires but for my driving that is only 1 winters worth. :sick:

tiff_c · December 2007

If you want max snow traction consider minus sizing the tires/wheels. I did on my Accord. Do you really want ultra low profile when crashing over ice rutted roads?

Oh I usually go tall and narrow for winter tires I would put 15's on instead on 18's if they'd fit over the brakes.
No way are you going to be going all that fast except on a cleared highway anyway.
Low profile is great for the summer but not a chance in the winter.

shipo · December 2007

Y'all are saying the same thing. Minus sizing is the same as going taller and narrower (staying within a tenth or two of the same overall tire diameter of course).

Best Regards,
Shipo

maryh4 · February 2008

I just moved to Sheboygan, WI, drive a Rav4 and have been having a lot of trouble with traction. I have slid off the road 3 times so far. I still have the all seasons on. I need a great tire for snow and ice as I drive 40 miles each way to work. Recommendations please.

robr2 · February 2008

Your best bet is tirerack.com. They have consumer reviews of all their tires.

The problem is that you probably won't be able to buy snow tires at this time of year. Like fashion, the greatest availablity is the season before you need them.

tiff_c · February 2008

I just moved to Sheboygan, WI, drive a Rav4 and have been having a lot of trouble with traction. I have slid off the road 3 times so far. I still have the all seasons on. I need a great tire for snow and ice as I drive 40 miles each way to work. Recommendations please.

Your best bet if you want the best tires is to buy Nokian tires. Tire Rack does not sell them. They are not the cheapest tires you can buy but they are the best. Try www.nokian.com and they have a list of dealers. I am using the Nokian WR's on my Civic in the Northeast and we have had a lot of snow and icy roads and no trouble at all. I've used Nokian tires for many years. My Civic Si can go places that will get most cars stuck. The Nokian WRG2 is the newest snow rated all season and the best they have.
But if you keep going off the road in corners you are probably exceeding the grip your tires have for conditions. Nokian does make dedicated winter tires but they are full winter and Ice and very impressive in nasty stuff.
The website lists dealers and sizes. Tire Rack always suggests winter tires that aren't all that good IMO. They love to sell Blizzaks which are only a winter tire for 1/2 the tread depth.

kyfdx · February 2008

Another vote for Nokian WR.... I run them year round.. As noted, Nokian has more heavy duty winter tires, if needed..

But, really.. if you are sliding off the road with all-season tires, you need to re-think your driving habits.. You are traveling too fast for conditions..

Good luck.. and slow down!

tiff_c · February 2008

Another vote for Nokian WR.... I run them year round.. As noted, Nokian has more heavy duty winter tires, if needed..

Are you running the WR or the newer WRG2's?
I really like the WRG2's and yes they still have the 50,000 mile warranty. :surprise:

I used to use the Nokian Hakka Q's which are the same as the new Nokian RSi's which have to be the best full Snow and Ice tire I have ever used. Sadly they are not very good on dry roads and when it warms up they are like driving on Jello. The WRG2's are so great for what I drive in here even with the steep hills and mostly unpaved roads. :shades:

kyfdx · February 2008

Just the WR... I bought them about this time last year... I've put 18K on them..

Almost as capable as a dedicated winter tire, and better riding/handling than the crappy all-seasons that come on a CR-V.. So, I'm better off in all seasons..

Right around $500 OTD, though.. for 205-70-15..

maryh4 · February 2008

Thank you all so much.
I am going to try to buy the Nokian tires asap.

tiff_c · February 2008

Almost as capable as a dedicated winter tire, and better riding/handling than the crappy all-seasons that come on a CR-V.. So, I'm better off in all seasons..

The problem seems to be when the roads are clear and dry full winter tires are too squirmy. The WRG2's are really very good. True the RSi is a far superior tire in snow and ice but you'd have to get a lot more than we do and more often with unplowed roads for it to be worth buying them at least in the Northeast where I am.

The WR's are the only snowflake rated tire on the market. I'll never buy another brand of winter tire for any car I own. They were $600 even, for my WRG2's, free rotation and a discount to remount my summer tires for my 2008 Civic Si.
I think the lower profile tires cost a bit more but I'm very happy with them.

tiff_c · February 2008

Thank you all so much.
I am going to try to buy the Nokian tires asap.

Sure thing, and once you have them you'll be a true believer like all other Nokian tire owners.

dudleyr · February 2008

I run the michelin x-ice on 2 of my vehicles and it does very well in dry weather. Not razor sharp, but certainly not squirmy.

Had some Dunlops that were very squirmy though.

hammerhead · February 2008

Toyo Observes. As long as you get them off above 50F, they wear like iron. I have a set on their 8th winter, about 50% tread left.

Cheers!
Paul
(former dyed-in-the-wool studded tire fan for 25+ years)

tiff_c · February 2008

Nokian does make studded tires but I always buy studless as 1) we don't need them and 2) they are illegal for road use in my State.
Trouble up here is that we will see 60-70 degree weather and then it will snow again. This really screws you if you took off your winter tires.

mz6greyghost · February 2008

It's not only the tread that determines a tires useful life, but the age as well.

The recommended maximum "shelf life" for a set of NEW tires is 5 years old, because the rubber compound begins to break down, leading to cracks in the sidewall and within the tread. I personally wouldn't keep tires longer than 5 years, whether they're full of tread or completely bald.

This is especially important with winter tires, since it's the compound that assists in deep-snow traction as well as the tread. I'm on my 4th season with my current winter tires (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2s), and even though I've got over 60% tread left, I can still sense a little more slip, and a reduced traction limit compared to new. I plan on replacing them for next winter.

If I were you, for the safety of you, your passengers, and the vehicles around you, I'd recommend retiring those 8-year-old winter tires. I'm sure you've got your $$$$ worth out of them. Plus you'll be surprised at just how much better winter tire technology has improved in that time.

ntxgal · August 2008

I swear by Bridgestone Blizzaks myself. They grip on ice like you wouldn't believe!

shipo · August 2008

Wait until the tread is about one third gone, you'll be amazed at how bad those tires quickly become.

mz6greyghost · August 2008

Wait until the tread is about one third gone, you'll be amazed at how bad those tires quickly become.

Quoted for agreement. I'm lucky of I can get two full seasons of adequate snow traction with Blizzaks, compared to Dunlop and Michelin which usually give me at least four full seasons.

krzyss · August 2008

I also read that Blizzaks (not LM the high performance ones) drive poorly on anything but ice and snow, especially dry roads. If you drive mostly on unplowed roads then WS-60 or 50 should be your choice otherwise look for high performance winter tires. They drive better on dry and wet, similarly on snow and slightly worse on pure ice. Choose tires for your condition.

Krzys

ray80 · August 2008

Wait until the tread is about one third gone, you'll be amazed at how bad those tires quickly become

I agree, the special soft rubber compound I believe is only the first half of the tread, the rest is regular winter compound. There are other that fall into this catagory also. To me its like buying half a winter tire

.

dudleyr · August 2008

Blizzaks are not all that bad. It is the first 60% not the first half, and no winter tire does that well once the tread starts to get low, so you should really replace at about 20% anyway.

Do other winter tires last longer than the Blizzak - probably.

Is it twice as long - no.

krzyss · August 2008

I am not sure. Wear depends on temperature and surface and how car is driven.
It is not hard for me to imagine that during particular warm winter WS-60 would wear twice as fast as LM-25 (both Blizzaks).

Krzys

adkcar · September 2008

I have a set of 14" Blizzaks, with quite a bit of tread still on them, that have been sitting in my cellar since the winter of 2002-03.

I am wondering if they are still safe to use since I thought I read that "old" tires could be a hazard, due to the rubber disintegrating.

Thanks.

ray80 · September 2008

old tires

Snow/Ice winter tires

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