Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

RE: 72 Nova---the decimal is in the wrong place on that one.

stickguy · November 2014

nice looking Ghia, but I would still prefer a convertible. Probably even more rust prone though.

fintail · November 2014

I kind of like the bathtub Packards. The "Victoria" model was especially nice, but maybe that's just me speaking as a BTTF geek. I've read in the commentary for the movie, that the car was perfectly reliable and ran like a dream, more than could be said for the DeLorean:

I'd definitely drive that.

Mr_Shiftright said:
Hopeless for restoration. The chrome alone would easily exceed the purchase price of the vehicle.

I know of the same year car in much better shape for sale for $7500

bhill2 · November 2014

Mr_Shiftright said:
These can be nice driving cars if you get one with overdrive. That straight 8 has enough torque to pull down a house. You can even lay down a nice patch. And if you hit something, you'll only hear about it through an e-mail notice, because you'll never know it.

I would be interested in what years that comment applies to. I could never really warm up to the bathtub models, but think the '51 redesign made them considerably better looking. Actually, I think that the '55 and '56 are beautiful, but by then they had gone to the V-8 instead of the straight 8.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

It's a matter of personal taste. I find the 55-56 model vulgar but if you like the Lincolns of that era, you'd probably like the Packards. The bathtub Packards are not particularly attractive either. In general, Packard styling postwar helped to kill them off. Probably as you say the 51-54s are the least offensive.

isellhondas · November 2014

Mr_Shiftright said:
Hopeless for restoration. The chrome alone would easily exceed the purchase price of the vehicle.

I know of the same year car in much better shape for sale for $7500

These can be nice driving cars if you get one with overdrive. That straight 8 has enough torque to pull down a house. You can even lay down a nice patch. And if you hit something, you'll only hear about it through an e-mail notice, because you'll never know it.

isellhondas said:
Paging our resident Packard expert....

I've always liked these beasts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Packard-sedan-4-door-1949-packard-series-23-2362-runs-and-drives-great-/111519156866?forcerrptr=true&hash=item19f70f4a82&item=111519156866&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

I'm thinking the costs of even making this into a driver would probably exceed it's value.

What do you think?

That's what I thought you would say. I hadn't thought about the price of doing the chrome. Chrome plating has become SO expensive and there are few shops anymore that do it. I know it's a nasty process.

I don't think I would want one with an Ultramatic.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

Ultramatic was a good transmission. I dunno, on a big blob like that, an automatic might be a better idea. What you really want is power steering.

isellhondas · November 2014

I was thinking that finding a shop willing to overhaul an Ultramatic might be difficult.

My petite mother used to drive a 1951 Buick Roadmaster with no power steering and even parallel parked it! Good thing it had a huge steering wheel!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

All American automatics are fundamentally the same, but sure, parts might be an issue.

isellhondas · November 2014

A lot of shops simply refuse to take in an old car out of fear "something" might happen or some oddball part won't be readily available. They don't want to tie up valuable space waiting weeks for that part to arrive. Can't blame them for that.

And, a Packard? Maybe a 1949 Buick with a common Dynaflow....maybe!

isellhondas · November 2014

Someone help me here. I may be TOTALLY wrong but I would peg this Chevy at maybe 12,000 dollars.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Impala-original-1965-impala-/331391252921?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d287539b9&item=331391252921&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

It's a nice car from the Bay Area but it's not a Super Sport. It's a lowly 283 with Powerglide, no A/C or other desirable options.

Maybe I just underestimate the value of old cars?

I hope the motor mounts have been upgraded!

stickguy · November 2014

might be simple, but certainly looks like a nice clean, authentic car. Prices? No clue!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

Some are trickier than others---Fluid Drive for instance.

isellhondas · November 2014

I "googled" Ultramatic and they had some quirky features. They continued to make changes in them until the very end.

fintail · November 2014

It is both "original" and "restored".

isellhondas said:
Someone help me here. I may be TOTALLY wrong but I would peg this Chevy at maybe 12,000 dollars.

fintail · November 2014

No doubt a bit ostentatious, but mention of the 55-56 reminds me of this car I saw over the summer, one I suspect was unrestored. I wouldn't kick it out of my garage/aircraft hangar:

Mr_Shiftright said:
It's a matter of personal taste. I find the 55-56 model vulgar but if you like the Lincolns of that era, you'd probably like the Packards. The bathtub Packards are not particularly attractive either. In general, Packard styling postwar helped to kill them off. Probably as you say the 51-54s are the least offensive.

hpmctorque · November 2014

isellhondas said:
A lot of shops simply refuse to take in an old car out of fear "something" might happen or some oddball part won't be readily available. They don't want to tie up valuable space waiting weeks for that part to arrive. Can't blame them for that.

When I had my 1987 BMW E30 three years ago, an independent shop which specializes in BMWs, and had done repairs and maintenance on mine for the four years I owned it, decided to only service newer BMWs. Even though I was a fairly long-standing customer, one day when I called to make an appointment I was advised they would no longer work on my car. No exceptions. If I brought in a newer one they'd be happy to work on it, but not a E30.

hpmctorque · November 2014

Mr_Shiftright said:
Ultramatic was a good transmission. I dunno, on a big blob like that, an automatic might be a better idea. What you really want is power steering.

You say Ultramatic was a good transmissions, but I'd heard they were problematic.

ab348 · November 2014

isellhondas said:
Someone help me here. I may be TOTALLY wrong but I would peg this Chevy at maybe 12,000 dollars.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Impala-original-1965-impala-/331391252921?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d287539b9&item=331391252921&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

It's a nice car from the Bay Area but it's not a Super Sport. It's a lowly 283 with Powerglide, no A/C or other desirable options.

Maybe I just underestimate the value of old cars?

I hope the motor mounts have been upgraded!

It is a really nice example of a fairly ordinary car - didn't the '65 full-size Chevy set some kind of record for the highest number of vehicles sold in a model year? As for prices, Chevys bring a premium over other equivalent or even higher-end cars for a given year and condition. Makes no sense but they do.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

I should have qualified that...the most mature development of the Ultramatic was good---1954, and also it's not really as conventional as I stated. I mean, the principles upon which it operates are totally conventional, but the design, and the lock up torque converter, and how it shifted, were all pretty novel at the time. But it was still controlled by a valve body hydraulic system. It had high gear starts on the earlier models, which wasn't great, but then so did Dynaflow.

hpmctorque said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Ultramatic was a good transmission. I dunno, on a big blob like that, an automatic might be a better idea. What you really want is power steering.
You say Ultramatic was a good transmissions, but I'd heard they were problematic.

gsemike · November 2014

What is missing from that ad?

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/cto/4711877761.html

On that Chevy, looks like the front driver's fender doesn't line up too well. I'd really like to know what's under the paint

explorerx4 · November 2014

@gsemike, I guess that's one way to build a project!

stickguy · November 2014

buy all the parts and build a new one? Can probably do it on a Mustang now that some company makes frames and unibodies. Will need a large checkbook of course. and lot's of patience. But still likely easier than starting with a rust bucket!

just watched an episode of one of the rebuild shows (Classic car rescue? The one with Mario and Bernie. totally staged, but funny). They did a Delorean, and did a segment at the DMC headquarters in Houston. Bought out the entire factory, and the owner said they have enough parts (including body shells) to make about 300 brand new cars out of them. Not that you would want to, but at least for an old, niche, orphan, great parts support! For now.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2014

It's hard to say because we have no shots of the undercarriage, but if it's as clean underneath as up top I'd say more like $16,000.

isellhondas said:
Someone help me here. I may be TOTALLY wrong but I would peg this Chevy at maybe 12,000 dollars.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Impala-original-1965-impala-/331391252921?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d287539b9&item=331391252921&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

It's a nice car from the Bay Area but it's not a Super Sport. It's a lowly 283 with Powerglide, no A/C or other desirable options.

Maybe I just underestimate the value of old cars?

I hope the motor mounts have been upgraded!

isellhondas · November 2014

hpmctorque said:

isellhondas said:
A lot of shops simply refuse to take in an old car out of fear "something" might happen or some oddball part won't be readily available. They don't want to tie up valuable space waiting weeks for that part to arrive. Can't blame them for that.

When I had my 1987 BMW E30 three years ago, an independent shop which specializes in BMWs, and had done repairs and maintenance on mine for the four years I owned it, decided to only service newer BMWs. Even though I was a fairly long-standing customer, one day when I called to make an appointment I was advised they would no longer work on my car. No exceptions. If I brought in a newer one they'd be happy to work on it, but not a E30.

It sounds like painful experiences led them to that decision which left a loyal customer high and dry.

fintail · November 2014

That stinks. Is parts availability maybe part of it? But I can't imagine, for something as common as an E30. Or maybe more money in fixing newer more complex cars?

My indy mechanic still welcomes my fintail with open arms, and always has older cars hanging around. Another indy I know also has no problem with old cars.

When I had my 1987 BMW E30 three years ago, an independent shop which specializes in BMWs, and had done repairs and maintenance on mine for the four years I owned it, decided to only service newer BMWs. Even though I was a fairly long-standing customer, one day when I called to make an appointment I was advised they would no longer work on my car. No exceptions. If I brought in a newer one they'd be happy to work on it, but not a E30.

isellhondas · November 2014

Do all of you remember your first car?

This is what I bought for 35.00 at age 16.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Other-Base-1952-chevrolet-styleline-deluxe-base-3-9-l-/161493285575?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2599bffac7&item=161493285575&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Mine was the dark green that the roof is on this one and mine was a stick.

It had a leaking fuel pump that my step dad helped me install. I remember I bought a rebuilt
fuel pump for 7.00.

I loved that old Chevy but I had to sell it when I went back to school when summer ended and I couldn't afford the insurance. Relied on my parent's cars for awhile.

A long time ago....

stickguy · November 2014

who can forget their first car? First girlfriend, well,...

This is close. A base '67 Camaro. 6 cyl, powerglide (that is the car where I learned to never put it in low, wind it out, and shift up to high!). Except mine cost $300, was brown with a black vinyl roof, and had no rear lower fenders (rusted away up to the crease). And don't put your groceries in the trunk, because the trunk floor ended about 10" before it reached the tail panel!

Also missing the window bar that fit between the front and rear windows. I assume that let rain in.

I liked to think of it as the lightweight performance edition!

did not keep that long. Really wanted a stick, so replaced it with an also rusty (who needs rear outer fenders anyway? Dad and I pop riveted some sheet metal there. Looked fine!) 1974 Duster. 6 cyl, 3 speed on the floor, and my first sunroof (crank operated slider). I was living large!

fintail · November 2014

My dad's first car was a 49 Chevy I think,. similar to that 52. That was in 1953 or so.

My first car was almost identical to this, same trim and colors:

These aren't worth a fortune now, and were even cheaper in the early 90s. It was the coolest thing I could find on limited funds. Cold blooded and thirsty, but nice looking, and the 390 sounded good. It got hit hit when I was still 16, then I used the Tempo for awhile, until I found the fintail when I was 18.

isellhondas · November 2014

I always liked the looks of a 66 Ford. I'm sure you've seen the ratty primered up LOUD 1967 Galaxie that runs around Bellevue!

ab348 · November 2014

isellhondas said:
I always liked the looks of a 66 Ford.

Me too. So much better-looking than the '65.

stickguy · November 2014

I have never been a big car guy, or at all interested in FS American cars. But that vintage Ford to me always looked very sharp. Maybe I just have a fondness because me grandfather had one when I was real little. I also had a plastic toy one that I remember for some reason.

andre1969 · November 2014

ab348 said:

It is a really nice example of a fairly ordinary car - didn't the '65 full-size Chevy set some kind of record for the highest number of vehicles sold in a model year? As for prices, Chevys bring a premium over other equivalent or even higher-end cars for a given year and condition. Makes no sense but they do.

I think that 1965 was significant for Chevy in that they sold over one million Impalas that year for the first time. I may be wrong, but I think wagon sales were broken out separately that year, and didn't count towards that million. The Impala SS might have been counted separately as well.

I think 1965 was a banner year in general. It might have set a new record for US auto production.

xwesx · November 2014

After seeing some of the first cars you guys posted, I'm not sure it's fair to even post on this subject... I'm only working on my third decade of being a licensed driver!

I still have my "first car" as well, though it looks nothing now like it did when I first "inherited" it (my dad bought it new in 1971 and gave it to me in 1991 at the tender young age of 14). It was quite the project, and I worked on it off-and-on through 1995 until I had a highly usable, but not necessarily pretty, vehicle to drive.

So, it's a franken-Econoline, having started out as a 1971 Econoline 100 (302 V8) cargo van and eventually getting hybridized with a 1969 Econoline 300 (302 V8) window van. I have many fond memories in that rig (and, no, none of them involve girls!), and it tickles me that my kids love it when I take them for rides in it.

hpmctorque · November 2014

isellhondas said:

hpmctorque said:

isellhondas said:
A lot of shops simply refuse to take in an old car out of fear "something" might happen or some oddball part won't be readily available. They don't want to tie up valuable space waiting weeks for that part to arrive. Can't blame them for that.

When I had my 1987 BMW E30 three years ago, an independent shop which specializes in BMWs, and had done repairs and maintenance on mine for the four years I owned it, decided to only service newer BMWs. Even though I was a fairly long-standing customer, one day when I called to make an appointment I was advised they would no longer work on my car. No exceptions. If I brought in a newer one they'd be happy to work on it, but not a E30.

It sounds like painful experiences led them to that decision which left a loyal customer high and dry.

I think that's it. They were polite, but didn't elaborate regarding their decision. This shop specializes in BMWs, but also works on MBs. They do good work at reasonable prices. When I asked why they had decided to limit their servicing to newer models (I don't know just how much newer because it didn't matter to me), they said something to the effect that it was less hassle.

Their decision was disappointing at the time, and a little surprising, but they're entitled to run their shop as they wish.

explorerx4 · November 2014

My first car:

Exact brand, model, including 3rd row seats, and color combo.

fintail · November 2014

It's cool that you still have it. Cars can quickly become sentimental objects.

I am apparently exactly the same age as you - but my dad was both a Ford guy and an old Ford guy, so having an old Ford as my first car was pretty much assumed - I knew it would be something like that by the time I was 14-15, and he started looking. The Galaxie fit in with his old Ford fleet, which then included the 60 Country Sedan, and a 68 Fairlane.

I remember looking at a 62 Galaxie 500XL when I was 14 or 15 - it was black on red, and seemed immaculate (I was less picky then, and it was dark, so who knows). I remember it was $2K, which seemed very cheap - but my dad wasn't won over. The 66 was half that.

xwesx said:
After seeing some of the first cars you guys posted, I'm not sure it's fair to even post on this subject... I'm only working on my third decade of being a licensed driver!

fintail · November 2014

Yep I see that thing now and then. It kind of makes me smile - the owner must love it, to keep something like that going. The spoiler on the trunk is a nice touch, too.

Have you seen the 72 T-Bird I see now and then? It's kind of a cool car.

isellhondas said:
I always liked the looks of a 66 Ford. I'm sure you've seen the ratty primered up LOUD 1967 Galaxie that runs around Bellevue!

stickguy · November 2014

2K? That was a fortune. I know my first cars were earlier (starting in 1979 I think), but the first 4 probably didn't cost that much. the Camaro was $300. I think the Duster was about $600. After the Duster was a Gremlin that did not cost much more than that..

ah, the good old days.

bhill2 · November 2014

My first car:

It was a 700 rather than a Monza, but it had the Monza wheel covers. Red interior and a 4-speed. The best thing about it was the price. My sister bought it used when she got her first job. When she got a better job she wanted to buy a new car. The dealer gave her a choice; they would give her $200 trade-in for it, or they would knock $200 off the price of the new car. So she gave it to me. It tried to kill me a couple of times but I enjoyed driving it.

jwilliams2 · November 2014

My first car looked like this.....'53 Desoto...at least it had a Hemi in it....paid around $50 or so back in the late '50's...

fintail · November 2014

Of course, 2K in 1992 was different than 2K in 1979. I suppose 1K in 1992 might have been like $500 in 1979. The fintail was a big $1600.

xwesx · November 2014

fintail said:
It's cool that you still have it. Cars can quickly become sentimental objects.

Quite true. I think that is extra so when you pour as much blood, sweat, and tears into a vehicle as I did mine. I don't remember how much I dumped into it over the years, but I did find the '69 Econoline out in a wheat field by chance one afternoon, and I was able to hunt down the owner and got him to sell it to me for $400.

That probably sounds like a lot for a non-runner compared to what you guys paid for yours, but this one was a screaming deal for me considering all of the glass was perfect (including the windshield) and the body was *almost* perfectly straight (and rust-free). Considering how much time, effort, and money I would have to put into my '71 to get it to the same place, I was perfectly thrilled with that price.

omarman · November 2014

isellhondas said:
Do all of you remember your first car?

I loved that old Chevy but I had to sell it when I went back to school when summer ended and I couldn't afford the insurance. Relied on my parent's cars for awhile.

That old Chevy looks familiar. My mom bought her first car for $700 from a friend in 1953 when she needed to get her driver's license. It was a green 1950 Chevrolet Styleline Deluxe coupe. She later moved on to other cars but kept the '50 Chevy for the next 24 years. And all of us kids learned to drive that tank. All except my sister - who couldn't drive a stick. By 1977 the rusty old Chevy had turned the odometer over at least once and nobody wanted to drive it any more. Not even as a back up car! By this time mom and dad wanted to buy a smaller home for retirement and didn't want to take the tank with them. My oldest brother drove it to his work place with a for sale sign and somebody bought it for $100.

My first car was a '71 Mustang and looked like this one except mine was "pewter" with a black vinyl top and red interior. Paid $900 for it in 1976.

ab348 · November 2014

It's easy to forget how cheap used cars used to be. Back in the early '80s I was looking for a beater and the advice I got was to avoid anything under $500 as they would be junk - which implied that you could get something decent for $600-700. Then in the late '90s I was again looking for a beater and quickly found that the junk threshold had increased to $2500 or so. Nowadays I imagine $4000 is probably the floor, if not more.

$900 for a 5 year old Mustang seems like a pretty good deal.

isellhondas · November 2014

fintail said:
Yep I see that thing now and then. It kind of makes me smile - the owner must love it, to keep something like that going. The spoiler on the trunk is a nice touch, too.

Have you seen the 72 T-Bird I see now and then? It's kind of a cool car.

isellhondas said:
I always liked the looks of a 66 Ford. I'm sure you've seen the ratty primered up LOUD 1967 Galaxie that runs around Bellevue!

That spoiler on that '67 Galaxie is home made to be sure!

I see a T-Bird of that vintage around Issaquah once in awhile. this one is baby blue.

fintail · November 2014

It adds character for sure.

I am sure you've also seen the early Riviera with sidepipes that seems to mainly hang around east Bellevue, and the Toronado XS with wide whites, quite pimpy.

isellhondas said:

That spoiler on that '67 Galaxie is home made to be sure!

I see a T-Bird of that vintage around Issaquah once in awhile. this one is baby blue.

gbatt · November 2014

My first car was a $450 1968 Cutlass Supreme. It had all sorts of needs, but I enjoyed the heck out of that car. I ultimately bought a 1968 442 later in life. Good Times.

ab348 · November 2014

As the owner of a '68 Cutlass now for over 20 years I congratulate you on your good taste!!

gbatt · November 2014

LOL... Yes, I always read your posts with interest as well... We had a 350 4BBL in it. It was a pretty good runner for the early 80's. Most soccer mom's minivans would be able to slaughter it in the 1/4 mile now

Ironically, I am encouraging my wife to consider the Cadillac ATS when its time to replace her car... How has your experience been with yours? Ummm... to keep it in the spirit of the thread, does it perform better than your Cutlass?

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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