2014 BMW 4-Series Lease Questions

jzaid84 · December 2014

Could I get numbers on 2015 BMW 435i Gran Coupe for the following:
36/10
39/10

Target price before incentives of 8% off MSRP a good way to go into negotiations?

Michaell · December 2014

jzaid84 said:
Could I get numbers on 2015 BMW 435i Gran Coupe for the following:
36/10
39/10

Target price before incentives of 8% off MSRP a good way to go into negotiations?

.00130 and 62% for 39/10. Subtract 1% for 36 months. $1000 holiday credit.

8% off MSRP may be a bit much ... but, it doesn't hurt to start there and see what the dealer says.

floydfan1 · December 2014

For information purposes, I just closed on this deal. Many thanks for help from Edmunds.

2015 428i; 10k miles/39 mos
MSRP 41950
Selling price including incentive: $37,000
Net Cap Cost: 37000 + 725 Acquisition Fee + 700 Dealer Fee/Titling/Registration etc.
= 38425

RV @61%= 25589.5; Depreciation = 12835.5 / 39 = 329.12
FC = .0013 * (25589.5 + 38425) = 83.22
pre-tax: 412.34

Fwiw, with regards to the mod's comment that 10% off sticker might be aggressive, the dealer opened negs with an offer 8% below sticker at about invoice so be aggressive at this time of year I suppose! My deal might not be best, but I'm happy with it.

The one lesson I will pass on is be wary of those dealer fees. I got mine lowered but not eliminated. Get that out in the open before you agree on price.

Good luck and happy hols all!

Michaell · December 2014

floydfan1 said:
For information purposes, I just closed on this deal. Many thanks for help from Edmunds.

2015 428i; 10k miles/39 mos
MSRP 41950
Selling price including incentive: $37,000
Net Cap Cost: 37000 + 725 Acquisition Fee + 700 Dealer Fee/Titling/Registration etc.
= 38425

RV @61%= 25589.5; Depreciation = 12835.5 / 39 = 329.12
FC = .0013 * (25589.5 + 38425) = 83.22
pre-tax: 412.34

Fwiw, with regards to the mod's comment that 10% off sticker might be aggressive, the dealer opened negs with an offer 8% below sticker at about invoice so be aggressive at this time of year I suppose! My deal might not be best, but I'm happy with it.

The one lesson I will pass on is be wary of those dealer fees. I got mine lowered but not eliminated. Get that out in the open before you agree on price.

Good luck and happy hols all!

Thanks for letting us know how you did. Apparently both BMW and MB are offering very aggressive prices now, in order to be the top selling luxury make for 2014.

lukeb321 · December 2014

floydfan1 said:
For information purposes, I just closed on this deal. Many thanks for help from Edmunds.

2015 428i; 10k miles/39 mos
MSRP 41950
Selling price including incentive: $37,000
Net Cap Cost: 37000 + 725 Acquisition Fee + 700 Dealer Fee/Titling/Registration etc.
= 38425

RV @61%= 25589.5; Depreciation = 12835.5 / 39 = 329.12
FC = .0013 * (25589.5 + 38425) = 83.22
pre-tax: 412.34

Fwiw, with regards to the mod's comment that 10% off sticker might be aggressive, the dealer opened negs with an offer 8% below sticker at about invoice so be aggressive at this time of year I suppose! My deal might not be best, but I'm happy with it.

The one lesson I will pass on is be wary of those dealer fees. I got mine lowered but not eliminated. Get that out in the open before you agree on price.

Good luck and happy hols all!

How much due at signing?

indymaddog · January 2015

I'm having difficulty figuring this deal out...all worked over the phone, so I've not seen the "real" numbers:
Location: Indiana, 7% sales tax
435i xdrive 2015, program car with 4,500 miles on it
MSRP $61,945
"Internet Deal" listed on web page: $59,945
I asked what was their "best deal" and was told $56,523

Now that I have that number, I asked about leasing:
39 mo / 10k/yr

I'm told $603/mo with $4,500 down but I can't seem to make that work given the formulas and the data. If I go with what I've seen for December numbers (car was "listed as sold 12/31" to me):
MF=0.00130
RV=62%

Residual value would be $38,405.90 but I can't figure how they are getting a payment of $603.62 without doing everything from MSRP rather than the "best deal" I was given.

Other numbers I was given, all included taxes:
39/10k no down, $716/mo
39/10k, 5k down, $570/mo
39/10k, 4k down, $598/mo
39/10k, 3k down, $628/mo

So...I really can't tell if this is a good deal or not. Do I have to wait until I go to sign paperwork and take my computer with me? :-)

kyfdx · January 2015

@indymaddog

Is this a Gran Coupe? If it's just a coupe, then the residual percentage is 1% too high.

The reason you can't make the numbers work is the program car has to have it's residual reduced, to account for the extra miles.. 4500 initial miles will reduce the residual by $900.

The selling price is just okay.. It's about invoice minus the $1000 incentive on this model. Considering the mileage on the car, it should sell for about $1000 less (in my opinion).

But, using their numbers, and assuming the residual is $900 less than the 62% of MSRP, I get a payment of about $610/mo.+tax.. Due at signing would be 1st payment, $725 acquisition fee, title/registration/doc fees.. (so, maybe $1800?)

I think Indiana taxes the monthly payment, right? So, $610/mo.+tax would be around $652/mo., with $1800 due at signing..
To get to $603/mo. including tax would take an $1800 CAP reduction, so around $3600 upfront.

That's a lot of supposition on my part, but the lease deal they quote is about $900 total more than what I come up with.. Lots of moving parts, there, so without a breakdown of the actual numbers, all those are just estimates..

If it's me, I want your payment with only $2500-$3000 due at signing, not $4500 (to simplify matters). I will say that after Friday, the price will probably go up with the new program.

indymaddog · January 2015

because I'm new at this (I normally purchase)... do you negotiate the best price first, and then have them convert that to a lease? They were down to $56k until I asked about lease pricing.

Michaell · January 2015

indymaddog said:
because I'm new at this (I normally purchase)... do you negotiate the best price first, and then have them convert that to a lease? They were down to $56k until I asked about lease pricing.

Yes, negotiate your best price, but be aware that there are some incentives that are valid only for purchase, while others are only valid for leases.

floydfan1 · January 2015

lukeb321 said:

floydfan1 said:
For information purposes, I just closed on this deal. Many thanks for help from Edmunds.

2015 428i; 10k miles/39 mos
MSRP 41950
Selling price including incentive: $37,000
Net Cap Cost: 37000 + 725 Acquisition Fee + 700 Dealer Fee/Titling/Registration etc.
= 38425

RV @61%= 25589.5; Depreciation = 12835.5 / 39 = 329.12
FC = .0013 * (25589.5 + 38425) = 83.22
pre-tax: 412.34

Fwiw, with regards to the mod's comment that 10% off sticker might be aggressive, the dealer opened negs with an offer 8% below sticker at about invoice so be aggressive at this time of year I suppose! My deal might not be best, but I'm happy with it.

The one lesson I will pass on is be wary of those dealer fees. I got mine lowered but not eliminated. Get that out in the open before you agree on price.

Good luck and happy hols all!

How much due at signing?

Sorry, I was out driving for several days, ha. Just first month's payment down.

On Monday, BMW raises prices of all 4 series by a couple of hundred bucks I read yesterday.

kiljaedon · January 2015

Hello good sirs -
There's a dealership close by that has a few leftover 2014 428i's. I'm considering leasing one, but I'm wondering what the counter argument is for leasing a 2014 model as opposed to a 2015. I'm interested in this late model because it's nearly fully loaded - nav system, driver assistance, lighting, premium package, sport line, etc. I figured the warranty would have already been started and a whole year's value has been spent. Is there anything else I should consider?

The listed MSRP is $52650 and considering it's last years model the dealer told me it was going at $46488 and he quoted me a lease rate of $499 + tax at 12k/36. Money factor of .00081 (I said 7 MSDs). I'm not sure how to begin negotiations here - what do you guys suggest?

kyfdx · January 2015

kiljaedon said:
Hello good sirs -
There's a dealership close by that has a few leftover 2014 428i's. I'm considering leasing one, but I'm wondering what the counter argument is for leasing a 2014 model as opposed to a 2015. I'm interested in this late model because it's nearly fully loaded - nav system, driver assistance, lighting, premium package, sport line, etc. I figured the warranty would have already been started and a whole year's value has been spent. Is there anything else I should consider?

The listed MSRP is $52650 and considering it's last years model the dealer told me it was going at $46488 and he quoted me a lease rate of $499 + tax at 12k/36. Money factor of .00081 (I said 7 MSDs). I'm not sure how to begin negotiations here - what do you guys suggest?

We don't have the new January numbers for 2014 models.

But, no reason not to lease a 2014, if it's a better deal. The warranty clock should not have started, unless it's a service loaner or demo. Money factor might be slightly higher, this month (.00082 with 7 MSDs).. Of course your proposed payment doesn't mean much without knowing how much is due at signing, outside of the MSDs.

kiljaedon · January 2015

I got some more transparent numbers here.

10k/36. MSRP 52225.00. Total Cap: 45795. Monthly payment w/o taxes: 478.22.
Residual Base: 56.
Residual bump: 3.
Total residual: 30,812.75

First month: 520.06 (inc taxes)
Sec deposits: 3850.
Fees and insurance: 520 (no idea what this is).
Total drive off: 4897.06

What do you think kyfdx? My MO is, I'm not sure how to valuate considering it's 2014. I figure for a 2015 I could just use Truecar to determine whether or not the Cap is reasonable.

Michaell · January 2015

kiljaedon said:
I got some more transparent numbers here.

10k/36. MSRP 52225.00. Total Cap: 45795. Monthly payment w/o taxes: 478.22.
Residual Base: 56.
Residual bump: 3.
Total residual: 30,812.75

First month: 520.06 (inc taxes)
Sec deposits: 3850.
Fees and insurance: 520 (no idea what this is).
Total drive off: 4897.06

What do you think kyfdx? My MO is, I'm not sure how to valuate considering it's 2014. I figure for a 2015 I could just use Truecar to determine whether or not the Cap is reasonable.

$6500 off sticker is not too bad, and a $520/mo payment on a car that stickers for $52K is also a decent deal.

kyfdx · January 2015

kiljaedon said:
I got some more transparent numbers here.

10k/36. MSRP 52225.00. Total Cap: 45795. Monthly payment w/o taxes: 478.22.
Residual Base: 56.
Residual bump: 3.
Total residual: 30,812.75

First month: 520.06 (inc taxes)
Sec deposits: 3850.
Fees and insurance: 520 (no idea what this is).
Total drive off: 4897.06

What do you think kyfdx? My MO is, I'm not sure how to valuate considering it's 2014. I figure for a 2015 I could just use Truecar to determine whether or not the Cap is reasonable.

Really... the only thing that matters... is it a better deal than a brand-new one?

And, without a doubt, you won't be able to come close to that deal on a new 4-Series.. It's saving you $100/mo, most likely.

kiljaedon · January 2015

The thing is - I'm not sure where I can valuate a new 2014. I wasn't sure if it was going to make a big difference if I lease 2015 rather than 2014. The dealer told me that it's considered a specialty demo, unpunched.

gorilla6 · January 2015

Thanks for the info.
How does this deal sound:

2015 435i M Sport
MSRP: $58175
Total cap cost: 53000
MF: .00130
Residual: 58 percent for 39 month, 15K/yr
Acquisition fee: 725
Doc fee: 80
DMV fees: 469 (California)

Monthly payment: $668 (including taxes)
Drive off: $1942

Plus, they'll cover my last payment and disposition fee for the current lease.

Can I do much better than that?

Thanks again.

Michaell · January 2015

gorilla6 said:
Thanks for the info.
How does this deal sound:

2015 435i M Sport
MSRP: $58175
Total cap cost: 53000
MF: .00130
Residual: 58 percent for 39 month, 15K/yr
Acquisition fee: 725
Doc fee: 80
DMV fees: 469 (California)

Monthly payment: $668 (including taxes)
Drive off: $1942

Plus, they'll cover my last payment and disposition fee for the current lease.

Can I do much better than that?

Thanks again.

I get $606.57 before tax - if tax is 9%, the payment is $661.16, so pretty close to your quote.

gorilla6 · January 2015

Ah you're right. I think the site I used might have added the interest to the acquisition fee. Well, that would probably happen if I were to finance the acquisition fee but I think I'll just pay the 725 up front. I also saw that California law limited doc fees to 80 dollars but wasn't sure if that was true. And maybe they'll try to get me with these maco or advertising fees?

But 661/month and 1942 drive off sounds pretty good for a 58,175 dollar msrp 2015 vehicle with California taxes?
I'm just worried they'll try to add on fees when I sign the lease. But I computed the monthlies and the drive off and sent it to them so if they tinker with anything, I should notice, right?

thanks again.

Michaell · January 2015

gorilla6 said:
Ah you're right. I think the site I used might have added the interest to the acquisition fee. Well, that would probably happen if I were to finance the acquisition fee but I think I'll just pay the 725 up front. I also saw that California law limited doc fees to 80 dollars but wasn't sure if that was true. And maybe they'll try to get me with these maco or advertising fees?

But 661/month and 1942 drive off sounds pretty good for a 58,175 dollar msrp 2015 vehicle with California taxes?
I'm just worried they'll try to add on fees when I sign the lease. But I computed the monthlies and the drive off and sent it to them so if they tinker with anything, I should notice, right?

thanks again.

Yes, CA doc fees are capped at $80.

Pay close attention to all the numbers when you go in to sign; trust, but verify.

anh3 · January 2015

new 2014 coupe 435 Xdrive, do you have the MF and RV for IL?

Michaell · January 2015

anh3 said:
new 2014 coupe 435 Xdrive, do you have the MF and RV for IL?

.00130 and 56% for 36/15 on the 2014 435i xDrive coupe.

anh3 · January 2015

2014 435 xdrive
$56150
$47999 SP + 795 acq. fees
$1195 due at signing
$627 a mo for 36 mos, includes 7% tax
good deal?

Michaell · January 2015

anh3 said:
2014 435 xdrive
$56150
$47999 SP + 795 acq. fees
$1195 due at signing
$627 a mo for 36 mos, includes 7% tax
good deal?

$627.29 is what I get after adding 7% tax. If you're happy with the selling price, no reason not to do the deal.

yescar · March 2015

Could you provide me with the current MF and residual on the following: 2014 428i Convertible and also the 2014 435i Convertible, both 36 month/10K miles. Thanks in advance

Michaell · March 2015

yescar said:

Could you provide me with the current MF and residual on the following: 2014 428i Convertible and also the 2014 435i Convertible, both 36 month/10K miles. Thanks in advance

.00129 and 63% for both.

yescar · March 2015

Michaell said:

yescar said:

Could you provide me with the current MF and residual on the following: 2014 428i Convertible and also the 2014 435i Convertible, both 36 month/10K miles. Thanks in advance

.00129 and 63% for both.

Thanks for responding so quickly! Much appreciated.

jms135 · April 2015

Hi,

Are the april numbers out for M4 10/12k 36/39? Thanks in advanced

Michaell · April 2015

jms135 said:
Hi,

Are the april numbers out for M4 10/12k 36/39? Thanks in advanced

Limited BMW info for April .. no M4 numbers just yet.

jms135 · April 2015

Looks like residual dropped 1 percent and mf up to .00130 from .00129

kyfdx · April 2015

jms135 said:
Hi,

Are the april numbers out for M4 10/12k 36/39? Thanks in advanced

.00130 MF and 62%/61% residual for 36 months.

popogat · April 2015

Could you provide me with the current MF and residual on the following: 2014 428i Coupe for 36 month/10K miles.

I was offered
2015 428i coupe
$45350 MSRP
$42370 Selling Price
62% RF .0013 MF
$370 license and registration, $995 Bank Fee (is this fee legit?)
$2073 drive off
$531 a mo for 36 mos, includes 9% tax
good deal?

Michaell · April 2015

popogat said:
Could you provide me with the current MF and residual on the following: 2014 428i Coupe for 36 month/10K miles.

I was offered
2015 428i coupe
$45350 MSRP
$42370 Selling Price
62% RF .0013 MF
$370 license and registration, $995 Bank Fee (is this fee legit?)
$2073 drive off
$531 a mo for 36 mos, includes 9% tax
good deal?

It's legit, but marked up. Base bank fee is $795.

But, you're getting the base MF from the dealer, so that's a plus.

I'm getting the same numbers as the dealer.

You can buy down the MF with MSDs, or negotiate for a better selling price.

doug911w · April 2015

Hi Michaell, I have this initial 36 lease quote in hand: NEW 2015 428i xDrive, Sport Line Model. MSRP=$54,365, Selling Price= $52,355, Residual=.62 Miles/year=10,000, Cook (Chicago) 5% sales tax= $2166, Drive off =$1,500, which is 1st pmt+400.40+389.43 [fees & ins], Monthly pmt=$711, Cap Reduction=$400.40, Acquisition fee=$995. Total Residual = $33,706.30 and Purchase Option = $33,706.30. MF=.00130. The one thing that sticks out is that the selling price needs to come down to the vicinity of $51,103 (at least). Your opinion is values and much appreciated. Thanks! Doug

Michaell · April 2015

doug911w said:
Hi Michaell, I have this initial 36 lease quote in hand: NEW 2015 428i xDrive, Sport Line Model. MSRP=$54,365, Selling Price= $52,355, Residual=.62 Miles/year=10,000, Cook (Chicago) 5% sales tax= $2166, Drive off =$1,500, which is 1st pmt+400.40+389.43 [fees & ins], Monthly pmt=$711, Cap Reduction=$400.40, Acquisition fee=$995. Total Residual = $33,706.30 and Purchase Option = $33,706.30. MF=.00130. The one thing that sticks out is that the selling price needs to come down to the vicinity of $51,103 (at least). Your opinion is values and much appreciated. Thanks! Doug

With your numbers, I get $629.90/mo before tax.

What is the net cap cost?

Base MF is good, but you are right, I think there is more discounting available from sticker - usually 5-7% is good.

doug911w · April 2015

Hi, thanks for quick turnaround... net cap cost is 52,949.60 add capped taxes of 2166.02 equals total cap cost of 55,115.62. So, working "backwards", what would the selling price of $51,000 make the monthly cost given everything else? And what could account for the $81.10 discrepancy in the first scenario? Thank you again!

Michaell · April 2015

doug911w said:
Hi, thanks for quick turnaround... net cap cost is 52,949.60 add capped taxes of 2166.02 equals total cap cost of 55,115.62. So, working "backwards", what would the selling price of $51,000 make the monthly cost given everything else? And what could account for the $81.10 discrepancy in the first scenario? Thank you again!

There is almost certainly a difference between the selling price and the net cap cost ... I used the former for my calculations.

And, I thought IL changed over their tax laws so that only the monthly payment is subject to tax ... I don't understand the 5% and $2166 being added to the cap cost.

On a 36 month lease, every $1000 off the cap cost results in about $28/mo lower on the monthly payment.

doug911w · April 2015

They are saying their vehicle cost {invoice] is 50,709.15, they are adding profit of 1645.85, adding 995 acquisition fee and subtracting 400.40 CAP reduction and arriving at 52,949 cap cost and then adding capped taxes of 2166.02 to arrive at total cap cost of 55,115.62. And yes, Illinois did change the law re taxes 1/1/15. This doc I have states the tax breakdown is as follows: Cook County "upfront tax" is 1903.47 (7.25%) and Cook County USE TAX is 262.55 (1%) Yes, it is tax for just the 36 months, adding 2166.02 to the total cap cost. I assume that translates to 60.17 for the life of the 36 month period if my math is correct. Is this scenario "Typical"?

Michaell · April 2015

doug911w said:
They are saying their vehicle cost {invoice] is 50,709.15, they are adding profit of 1645.85, adding 995 acquisition fee and subtracting 400.40 CAP reduction and arriving at 52,949 cap cost and then adding capped taxes of 2166.02 to arrive at total cap cost of 55,115.62. And yes, Illinois did change the law re taxes 1/1/15. This doc I have states the tax breakdown is as follows: Cook County "upfront tax" is 1903.47 (7.25%) and Cook County USE TAX is 262.55 (1%) Yes, it is tax for just the 36 months, adding 2166.02 to the total cap cost. I assume that translates to 60.17 for the life of the 36 month period if my math is correct. Is this scenario "Typical"?

The acquisition fee is marked up $200, but everything else makes sense. I guess IL is like NY or NJ in that the entire tax for the lease is calculated up front and can be paid at lease inception or added to the cap cost, which is what they are doing here.

You can consider using MSDs to buy down the MF and lower your payment, or shoot for a selling price closer to invoice.

doug911w · April 2015

Ok, great - I'll look at them lowering selling price AND reducing acquision fee as well - much appreciated.

timurbmw · April 2015

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting anything in here. I definitely read a lot of previous messages and learned a lot from it, but not enough.

I am trying to lease a 435xi GranCoupe. Based on the built I want bmw website gives MSRP 58300. (M, red interior, cold weather package, lightning package, navigation system).

Could someone please provide me with a sample email that I could send out to all the BMW centers around me that will make me sound that I know what I am talking about (mf, msd, other fees and etc.) and they will give me the best prices possible?

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

timurbmw · April 2015

please let me know if this is a good deal!?

435xi GranCoupe MSRP 58,300

Capital $53,989
mf .000159
residual value 63%
$0 downpayment but I do have to pay $2047 for first month + tax register + acquisition fee($995)

monthly payment $679

Michaell · April 2015

timurbmw said:
please let me know if this is a good deal!?

435xi GranCoupe MSRP 58,300

Capital $53,989
mf .000159
residual value 63%
$0 downpayment but I do have to pay $2047 for first month + tax register + acquisition fee($995)

monthly payment $679

MF and Acquisition fee are both marked up (.00130 and $795).

With your current numbers, I'm showing about $624/mo pre-tax. Drop the MF and the payment goes down to $597/mo before tax.

timurbmw · April 2015

I got a different offer from different dealership

MSRP 62585
capital 58829
mf .000130
residual value 63%
down $2080 dollars, for all the fees, acquisition fee (995) ( they are willing to lower the acquisition fee to $725)
monthly $727

Then minus $1,000 off for college grad program.
monthly becomes $696

Michaell · April 2015

timurbmw said:
I got a different offer from different dealership

MSRP 62585
capital 58829
mf .000130
residual value 63%
down $2080 dollars, for all the fees, acquisition fee (995) ( they are willing to lower the acquisition fee to $725)
monthly $727

Then minus $1,000 off for college grad program.
monthly becomes $696

If the tax rate is 9%, the numbers are spot on.

MF is .00130 (2 zeros, not 3).

timurbmw · April 2015

Michaell said:

timurbmw said:
I got a different offer from different dealership

MSRP 62585
capital 58829
mf .000130
residual value 63%
down $2080 dollars, for all the fees, acquisition fee (995) ( they are willing to lower the acquisition fee to $725)
monthly $727

Then minus $1,000 off for college grad program.
monthly becomes $696
If the tax rate is 9%, the numbers are spot on.

MF is .00130 (2 zeros, not 3).

Thanks for your quick response! Now is there anything else I could negotiate within this offer? Obviously I want the monthly payment to be as low as possible. (650 would be amazing). I am not really interested in MSD

Michaell · April 2015

timurbmw said:

Michaell said:

timurbmw said:
I got a different offer from different dealership

MSRP 62585
capital 58829
mf .000130
residual value 63%
down $2080 dollars, for all the fees, acquisition fee (995) ( they are willing to lower the acquisition fee to $725)
monthly $727

Then minus $1,000 off for college grad program.
monthly becomes $696
If the tax rate is 9%, the numbers are spot on.

MF is .00130 (2 zeros, not 3).
Thanks for your quick response! Now is there anything else I could negotiate within this offer? Obviously I want the monthly payment to be as low as possible. (650 would be amazing). I am not really interested in MSD

Without MSD, the only way to get a lower payment is to negotiate a lower selling price.

timurbmw · April 2015

Is it worth getting the tire and wheel insurance?

What's the base price for 435xi

Michaell · April 2015

timurbmw said:
Is it worth getting the tire and wheel insurance?

What's the base price for 435xi

Use the "make / model / year" pulldowns to help with pricing information.

Tire and wheel insurance is a good deal ... for the dealer.

Claires · April 2015

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2014 BMW 4-Series Lease Questions

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