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I like to drive fast and get a bit frisky when it's safe to do so, but I would never abuse a car like they do on Top Gear. I know, I know, the counter-argument is: "I bought it and I can do whatever I want to it".
Call it a pet peeve. Some of these cars are like rolling jewels.
2021 Genesis G90
(just joking)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I didn't want you to calculate the cost to help you decide....I wanted to test my theory, that a new car doesn't cost much more than a used car.
I do think, a 1 or 2 year old used car with a good warranty and a bit of luck, will be the best value overall. And, there are times when it is best to buy a used car and not stretch the budget, some things are more important than driving a new car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One reason is that the vehicle is having some mechanical or technical problems.
Another reason is that the owner of the used car is a chronic car buyer and the used car is a perfect vehicle in every way.
A further reason might be that the family is growing and they need a more practical mode of transportation.
Still another her reason might be that the family has two or three cars and need to downsize the fleet by selling one or more of their vehicles.
In all except for one reason, one would expect the used vehicle to be in pretty good shape especially if sold by Carmax or off a dealer's pre-owned lot where an inspection is completed and the vehicle is brought up to an acceptable standard by adding new brakes, tires, etc.
But in the case of a private party selling a used car due to problems with the vehicle is where the buyer must beware. Here is where a close inspection and assessment of the vehicle should be undertaken by a good mechanic.
So, driver, in most cases, a 2-4 year old car or SUV should be a good vehicle with many more years of trouble free use by the new owner.
This is why the value of later model used cars has risen substantially over the past few years.
I have to believe that it is more economical to buy a late model used car than purchase a new car. During the first year of ownership of a new car depreciates the vehicle by 20%. The second year 15% more. And the third and fourth years by 10% each year. So by purchasing a 3 year old car, you have eliminated a depreciation of 45% of it's original cost.
People buy new cars for many reasons, but to me, the purchase of a preferred pre-owned car that is 3 years old with under 30,000 miles is the "thinking man's" best bet.
2021 Genesis G90
While driving it on the gravel road to my house, the knob that switches the 4WD to 2WD fell off in his hand as he was messing with the switch. That was good - the light in the knob was intermittent and the mechanic couldn't diagnose any issue with the 4wd. He can change the 4WD to 2WD and back with the switch shaft until he can find another knob ($21 at a dealer ).
The rear window adhesive is separating at the bottom of the passenger side glass. The best fix is to remove the headliner and seat to get to it from the inside - he's going to diy and skip the headliner removal. Otherwise there's some trashed paint from sun damage and the headlight lenses are foggy. Not much road rash.
He's into it about $5,500 so far, made it home to TX with no issues, and hopes to drive it to Alaska and flip it by the end of the month. Really curious to see if he'll manage to get there with no issues and then break even.
Our TCO tool will dial in the deprecation (and looks to match your percentages), and you can use it to compare, say, insurance costs for a new car versus a used one.
I'm able to disagree with your post without flagging it as offensive/spam/etc. (disclaimer, I didn't read Mike's post, but I believe him based on his time here that he didn't say anything offensive.)
I'm totally ok with difference of opinions. However, going from not agreeing that companies hoarding cash overseas is wrong to flagging that comment is a big leap. Assuming the flagging wasn't a mistake, the person who reported it should have either ignored the post or post a reply disagreeing with Mike,
At least something good came out of this, Mike knows that we appreciate his posts and that he should stick around.
I read depreciation was 20% in years 1 and 2, and 15% every year after.
1,2, or 3 year old pre-owned is best value....but, buying new will cost more but better chance of nothing going too wrong.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I looked at Mike's post in question. It showed a "1" next to the Flag icon along with a "3" next to the Like icon. I clicked on the 3 and it showed me the names of the 3 people who liked it. I clicked on the 1 next to "Flag" thinking I would see who did that but it didn't show me a name. Instead it gave me choices for "Abuse" or "Spam". Hence, my conclusion.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"They don't care about the item - they only care about owning expensive things."
I think you have a point, "ab"! People or celebrities or very wealthy individuals who have so much money it would take 50 lifetimes to spend it all have no sense of "value" because if "it" breaks or crashes, they just replace it without any hesitation. I know from experience that this is fact within my own family.
If I spent my inheritance on a Rolls Royce Ghost (as you know, my dream car), I would have to live in it, making pit stops at the local gasoline station to wash up and do my duty, so to speak. I'd buy several "MY PILLOWS" at half price (as the owner of the "My Pillow" company advertises) and use my "Shriner's Children's Love Blanket" for warmth when the engine was off. I'd go to drive-in fast food restaurants for nourishment - probably McDonalds because Chick-Fil-A would be too expensive. I'd have to apply for welfare or some other gov't sponsored program like food stamps since I would be flat broke after paying for my Rolls. But at least I'd have a place to sleep!
All kidding aside, I agree with you that people who buy a Bugatti are people who "want" what most others "can't have/afford"!
2021 Genesis G90
I think you can hit a market where price doesn't mean a lot. The buyer has more money than he can ever spend, and if he wants it he'll buy it and what difference will it make...he won't have to try to pinch pennies by buying a cheaper brand of wine or something.
I guess the owner may think it tells the world he has lots of money.
For me it just says, the owner has more money than brains.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"I guess the owner may think it tells the world he has lots of money. For me it just says, the owner has more money than brains."
Driver, the same could be said about you or me for spending $60,000+ on a Mercedes-Benz when we could purchase Buicks or Cadillacs or even Lincolns for $20,000-$30,000 less and be driving excellent vehicles.
The fact is, all this amounts to is relative perceived value and all the perceptions we and others possess. I would consider anyone who buys a Bentley, Rolls, Bugatti, Porsche, Lambourghini, Ferrari, etc., out of their mind - while there are those who consider you and/or me out of out minds for buying a Mercedes-Benz. Everything is relative, driver. Don't you agree?
2021 Genesis G90
I pay what I do because the E400 has everything I want, safety, comfort, handling, styling that I like. I could probably really stretch the budget and get something more expensive....say a G Class, maybe a Porsch Panamera........but, it is way more car than I need. I really don't think I would get any more enjoyment out of owning it. The only enjoyment would be that people know I can afford it, and that doesn't really do me a lot of good.
After thinking it over, I think I should keep my mouth shut about telling people what makes sense to spend on a car (I take back the more money than brains comment - if you got it, spend it however you want to), but, I do think there is a level of satisfaction that a person could go past, and I think they are looking for more than what a car can give them, once you go past a certain price point.
Many items give you a lot of happiness when you buy them, but that wears off after a few months. What you are left with is a car that you will continue to like (and I have no desire to trade in the E, I don't think any car would suit me better), or, if you spend way over that threshold, you will still just have a car you are satisfied with. In other words, I think one can get carried away....even if they can afford something.
There must be a clearer way to say it.
One more thought, I was just as thrilled, maybe even more thrilled when I bought my 1992 Cavalier and my 95 Jeep as I was with the E400, maybe even more so. And those cars cost me more of my income percentage wise than the E, so what does that mean?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"One more thought, I was just as thrilled, maybe even more thrilled when I bought my 1992 Cavalier and my 95 Jeep as I was with the E400, maybe even more so. And those cars cost me more of my income percentage wise than the E, so what does that mean?"
Everything is relative - relative to a point in time during one's life and the income one had at that time and the cost of things in comparison to that income.
I paid $4800 for my 1967 Stingray Coupe in 1967. Today, a new Stingray with the big engine costs $70,000+. So, as I stated, it's all relative!
2021 Genesis G90
2021 Genesis G90
Currently own: 2017 BMW M4, 2011 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X Used to own: 2008 VW R32, 1998 Jeep Cherokee Sport, 1987 BMW 325IS
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Obviously a small sample and two bad choices. At least I can blame my wife on the Windstall...
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
Think about what the record would be like if those new cars had been used cars, then where would the standings be?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2021 Genesis G90
Given those limitations, there were 3 Mazdas (all 3 sedans), 1 Scion, a couple of Hyundai Elantras and that's pretty much it. No Subaru, no GM or Chrysler...
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Some funny things - I look and there one after the other is a 2013 Corolla or a 2012 Regal. Similar mileage and same price. Gee, that's a toughie....
Also a red Mazda 6 - 2014 with17k and all the doo dad. An automatic but one that lets you shift. This could work.
Now watch my mechanic fix the car cheap. No complaints if that happened. I do like the car a lot.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WRkmMG6Y6g0/VUPXVtFGI2I/AAAAAAAArpE/jgfU6337VX4/s1600/USA+auto+sales+market+share+chart+April+2015.jpg
It's just stuff. My wife is up in ABQ taking a class and I miss her. Wouldn't matter I never see the Grand Caravan again. Ditto if it were a Macan or GT.
Flags are bit worthless imo, at least the way Vanilla implements them. If you flag something for spam, please send a host a note because we may miss it unless there are five flags. It takes that many to get something off the forum and into the spam queue. I assume the abuse flag works the same, but I've yet to see one wind up getting moved to the queue for review. There's a lot of forums out there (most of them?) that aren't actively moderated, so I guess Vanilla tries to make up for it with flagging. Around here a host/mod will likely be jumping in on such a thread PDQ.
@bwia, trucks (in tuxes) are now the highly profitable luxury niche for the automakers, per this Fortune story.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
2021 Genesis G90
Vanilla is the name of the software that runs our forums.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
2021 Genesis G90
There's a tool here that mods can click on to check to see if anything is "in the queue". An abuse or spam flag won't show up there unless five different people have clicked the flag. Don't think I've ever seen that here. The automated spam filter will flop suspicious posts in the queue and that's the main reason to check it occasionally - usually those are lease question posts with a lot of numbers in them, and the spam filter gets confused about them.
As far as "handling" them, again, the hosts/mods will usually be on top of such a post or thread before it really blows up. Like posting one of my infamous "anyone shopping for a car?" queries.
2021 Genesis G90
Anyone shopping this weekend?
"Anyone shopping this weekend?"
As long as I am alive, I'm always shopping! Just not interested in buying right now or in the near future.
I am intrigued by the new Lincoln MKS Sedan. Something I might take a look at in the next month or two. They MSRP for about $52,000 which is significantly less than a Mercedes or BMW. I am just not a great fan of FWD, but they do make an AWD. We'll have to see if it meets my needs and desires. Another one I am considering is the big Cadillac XTS, but I heard rumors they may drop it from the line.
2021 Genesis G90
I went from a 2008 manual bmw to the 2012 automatic and didn't really think too much about it.
My wife loves manuals, now she will be going auto in the GLK (suppose to come in late this week).
Also, as we get older a leg or arm could break or get sore......you may not be able to drive a manual if that happens.
Good luck on the Mazda, hope you are pleasantly surprised!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know Lincoln is trying hard to transition their customer base. Cadillac is a little further along in that regard. And, it's not come without some pain....letting their old customers go, while simultaneously getting a different customer base to sell to. Tough gig. Cadillac seems bound and determined to stay the course with the transition. Let's see if Lincoln is willing to do the same.
Too many good choices in the luxury field these days. That's for sure.
My sister, the one who bought the C class, is already looking to trade it. Seems she likes my Caddy. Totally unlike her. She usually keeps cars until the wheels fall off.
Either way, luxury game is not about total market share, especially not in number of units sold (although you can see MB and BMW getting caught in that from time to time). It's more about total value of merchandise sold and "profit share", mind share, if you will.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Lincolns are are thinly-disguised versions of existing Ford platforms. The MKZ is a Fusion, the MKS is a Taurus, and the two SUVs are Escape and Flex-based. That has been a problem for them as many customers see that and wonder why they are paying so much more.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
"Lincolns are are thinly-disguised versions of existing Ford platforms. The MKZ is a Fusion, the MKS is a Taurus, and the two SUVs are Escape and Flex-based. That has been a problem for them as many customers see that and wonder why they are paying so much more."
I test-drove the MKZ and really did not like it. I also test-drove the Taurus and did not like the fact that the center console "swooped" up into the front dashboard making me feel clostrophic. If the Lincoln MKS has the same interior design as the Taurus, I will scratch it off my list of possible replacement vehicles for next year.
Unfortunately, the CTS is too small for my comfort up front. As for the XTS, if they are eventually dropping it from the line, that would mean little, if any, upgrading in engine, handling, and perhaps technology.
2021 Genesis G90
There was a link posted here (or in CCBA?) just the other day, with sales numbers for the first quarter of this year. Ford led, as always, with the F150. But surprisingly, very surprisingly to me, something like 63% of those sales (F150) were for the high end models, Lariat, King Ranch and Platinum trim levels. We are not talking work trucks here, we are talking very high end, very luxurious, and very expensive.
Subaru is also what one can describe the safest model line of all brands, period. They target to ace every single new IIHS test before other guys become even aware of it. The story is always the same - many brands get decent grades on existing tests, but when IIHS introduces a new one, half of them fail miserably, rest passes marginally, Subaru aces it from the get go. They had only one failure, when their new (then) 2004 (or 2005) Legacy got "marginal" on side impact test - they immediately redesigned the door and requested to test next year model, which of course passed with flying colors. I did not hear of any other car company doing so. Usual reaction is a press release saying IIHS does not represent real conditions, or some garbage like that. When the new model comes along a few years later and now passes the test, then they of course placate it all over their press releases.
The general public may not exactly be aware of all of it, but people who tend to shop for VW, often cross shop it with Subaru. Those people are well educated and well researched, so when they come "in contact" with facts about Subaru, they simply can't walk away. Subaru dealers are keen to point those things out, of course, plus Consumer Reports data having them consistently in top five of most reliable brands, with a few years in the past of being in a lead.
Curiously, JD Powers doesn't place Subaru anywhere near their top marks, I always wondered why. My theory is JD Powers focuses on different aspects, plus reading their actual results I quickly concluded they extrapolate data from insufficient samples; My favorite was giving Subaru Legacy GT, then one of the fastest popular midsize cars (that turbo was viciously fast) "below average" (on acceleration, which was a clear extrapolation from the base model. I always had a problem with the way JD Powers classified some of their grades. Like when somebody doesn't like the visor shape, or a position of power mirror adjustment switches, it's an "initial quality" problem.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
They just don't sell. People who have to have a stick need to know that when the time comes to sell it there will be VERY few takers.