Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

suydam · May 2015

I bought a used Camry for my daughter's second college year. It lasted through graduation, her first 2 jobs, and grad school. We only sold it because she now lives in a large city and doesn't need a car. It had plenty of room for several moves, and could go over 500 miles on a tank of regular gas. And that was a '99 so I'm sure they are even better now. I think it was LE and it had a spoiler, which I found rather amusing on a Camry.

nyccarguy · May 2015

stickguy said:
She suggested the SE as more attractive for young people. Similar sticker, comparable discounts.

I was going to say, how much more is an SE?

Michaell · May 2015

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:
She suggested the SE as more attractive for young people. Similar sticker, comparable discounts.
I was going to say, how much more is an SE?

The one I priced out on-line was around $25-26K sticker; don't know the size of the discounts that are available.

stickguy · May 2015

SE is about $800-$1k higher sticker, but has more items standard.

Michaell · May 2015

I know there should be a Porsche expert or two here ... poster wants to get a used Porsche and "minimize their cash outflow".

Bwahahahahaha!!!

Anyway, chime in here ....

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/34526/porsche/x/3-4-years-convertible-ownership-minimizing-outlay#latest

Michaell · May 2015

And, at what should be at the other end of the reliability scale, we have this ....

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/34525/honda/odyssey/anyone-else-seeing-everything-breakdown-within-4-years-of-purchase#latest

Again, any and all help is greatly appreciated.

stickguy · May 2015

Looks like me and the princess are going out car exploring Monday morning. Should be fun. Still have to overcome her "old person car" stigma on the Camry! I mentioned that an accord sport might hit budget. That excited her.

So will go test sit all the options without test driving. That will be reserved for the 2nd round.

ab348 · May 2015

You seem like a heckuva great dad!

stickguy · May 2015

I try. She is a good kid. Even just got a 4.0 for her 2nd term. So can't claim that having a car hurt her academics!

xwesx · May 2015

ab348 said:
You seem like a heckuva great dad!

I can see myself doing something like this with my daughter in nine or ten years, with one caveat:

After a couple of days of "shopping," I will likely say, "Aren't these cars all just amazing?! If you work hard and keep your actions focused on your goals, eventually you'll be able to afford one! In the meantime, you get to drive the PINTO!"

Hehehe. I'm just brutal to those poor kids.

suydam · May 2015

That was my approach too. And of course Camry is boring -- that's the ideal for a young driver.

roadburner · May 2015

My son's first car was the 1975 2002; I also sent him to the two day teen school at the BMW Performance Center as well as to Street Survival. I told him we'd discuss an upgrade in twelve months if he kept his grades up and did not collect any tickets or at-fault accidents. He followed through and announced he'd prefer to take the X3. I'd only make my kid drive a Camry as punishment for something like the most horrible infraction imaginable...

fintail · May 2015

Geez, my first car was a 66 Galaxie (in the 90s), via this car I learned about cold starting, hot starting, flooding, flames coming out of the carb, stalling, steering and braking with a stalled engine, driving in a gear too low to make noise around the high school,and other useful things. It was uphill both ways. Then I got the fintail, which I drove in college. Kids these days... If I had a devilspawn, they'd get a nice used Camry or Taurus or something dull but safe, and they'd get to chip in on the bills and maintenance.

xwesx · May 2015

fintail said:
If I had a devilspawn

Hey, at least you're honest about your own role in the equation!

On a serious note, though, I was right there with ya! I enjoyed those experiences so much that I *still* have my '69 Econoline. Heck, some of the best, most hilarious memories I have are related to my automotive faux pas, and those may have never happened if I was in some fancy new(ish) car.

Not saying that I would have minded having a nicer car or that other parents shouldn't do that, but I don't regret a thing about my sorted automotive past. I think RB's approach is a good one! If only I didn't have to send my kids part way across the continent to do something of that nature....

xwesx · May 2015

Hey, guys.... thoughts on this one?

http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/5031005821.html

corvette · May 2015

The V70 looks great in white.

On the way home today in the Yukon, I was behind a VW Tiguan and it looked like it was about the size of a Chevy Spark! Also, it looks like mine is one of the models which was factory equipped with a windshield washer fluid heater, which was later removed due to the big recall they had. Looks like there is an aftermarket product which will re-enable it. I'll have to think about that.

fintail · May 2015

Yep. I don't know how some people do it, paying for kids - unimaginable to me, maybe because of the cost of living here. You'd need two professional incomes to do anything like buy new cars and schooling for adult children. I don't know anyone under 40 who owns a house on the eastside and didn't receive parental help.

I have no complaints about my first car or those that came after, they taught my a little, and I still was luckier than many. Heck, the Galaxie got a lot more smiles and conversation than if I had a new car (I was in a small town, being given a newer car wasn't always a path to respect), the fintail was looked at the same, I still have it 20 years later. Kids these days won't get to experience an under dash Realistic tape player, 8 mpg, taking 10 minutes to warm up to the point of not stalling, etc. And the fintail taught me to embrace FI and old school MB build quality.

xwesx said:

fintail said:
If I had a devilspawn
Hey, at least you're honest about your own role in the equation!

On a serious note, though, I was right there with ya! I enjoyed those experiences so much that I *still* have my '69 Econoline. Heck, some of the best, most hilarious memories I have are related to my automotive faux pas, and those may have never happened if I was in some fancy new(ish) car.

Not saying that I would have minded having a nicer car or that other parents shouldn't do that, but I don't regret a thing about my sorted automotive past. I think RB's approach is a good one! If only I didn't have to send my kids part way across the continent to do something of that nature....

stickguy · May 2015

My daughter drove the old Volvo for more than 3 years already. No chance she was getting a new car for HS. And would be keeping Roberto if her college was reasonably close by.

Going to a college far away just changes the travel dynamics. Plus the I95 corridor from philly through Richmond (cutting through DC) is a god forsaken stretch of road.

carnaught · May 2015

stickguy said:
She is a good kid. Even just got a 4.0 for her 2nd term

I think that this mandates a new(er) car. Plus, her dad gets to go car shopping!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2015

I've chimed, and tried to use my best bedside manner to deliver the bad news. Fortunately, if he buys the Turbo, there may be some good news for him as well.

He seems realistic, as he anticipates thousands per year for maintenance, which is about right. If you don't have a minimum maintenance budget of $250/$300 a month, minimum, to keep a Porsche on the road, then don't buy one or you'll feel burdened by it, IMO. That's what it costs to play. Better than a Ferrari, however, which is more like $2.50 a mile.

Michaell said:
I know there should be a Porsche expert or two here ... poster wants to get a used Porsche and "minimize their cash outflow".

Bwahahahahaha!!!

Anyway, chime in here ....

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/34526/porsche/x/3-4-years-convertible-ownership-minimizing-outlay#latest

Sandman6472 · May 2015

EPC light came on in the Golf on Thursday and stayed on. Last night, the interior lights wouldn't go off unless vehicle was locked though the EPC light disappeared. Luckily, they had a 10 a m opening in service so over I went. Told there was no shuttle on Saturdays so I waited. After an hour they came out, asked for my license and insurance card and now have a red over black '15 Jetta in the driveway...push button start and navi, has Connectivity package. Nice enough vehicle and love the push button start but miss my Golf and the smaller size. From previous experience, it'll just fit in the garage so it'll just stay outside till it gets returned which hopefully will be Tuesday as I have to go back to work on Wednesday.
Not a happy camper by any stretch but guess this goes along with the territory. Could be worse, another customer bought her new Jetta home last night, already getting a loaner today! Things could always be worse!

The Sandman

Sandman6472 · May 2015

Sat in a new '16 Honda HR-V yesterday in the showroom, a black over black EX model and all I can say is, "nice vehicle"! Liked the size, a lot, as it's a bit smaller than the CR-V and Tucson...this is exactly what I was looking for back in November 2013. They were unloading a truck full of them and honestly, Honda did good here...this is the only Honda I'd ever consider. Looked a bit longer than the Fit which I think it's based on...they will move a bunch of these I predict. The interior was nice with push button start but sad to see no knobs for the audio system, can not get used to using my fingers on a screen to tune things. The EX cloth was very comfortable and bet the EX-L model will have very nice leather seating surfaces. Kinda knew I'd like this vehicle the minute I saw a pic of it, just surprised how much I really do like it though...I could actually see myself in one of these many years down the road if the Golf doesn't behave!!
We took delivery of about 10 new Civic LX's yesterday and it's a nice vehicle, very boring, but it drove nicely even with the down sized 15" wheels. Just not exciting to drive, an appliance on wheels to be honest, though they do tend to be drama free. Personally, if I were in the market for that size vehicle, I'd spend the little extra and get the new HR-V...the fun level is off the charts really and can't wait to take a test drive and see how they really drive.

The Sandman

stever · May 2015

Looks like some HR-Vs have arrived near me per our inventory tool (El Paso anyway). Want to go sit in one too. Bet Honda sells a boatload of them.

Need some help with buying a used XC60 here please - thanks!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2015

RE: 2010 Volvo XC60: why must I always be the bearer of bad news? Is Shiftright the reason we can't have nice things?

Notorious oil-burner. What can I say? One of the first model years, wimpy 3.2L engine, 80K miles on it---I'd rate this one as a "risky purchase". I told him to get a PPI, a cylinder leakdown test, get ahold of service records and a CARFAX and a rabbit's foot (no, I really didn't tell him the last part).

You know how it is--you'll meet someone who never has problems and you'll meet someone with horror stories. Best thing you can do is play the odds as to which of those two people you are likely to be. I'm guessing it's 5 to 1 against you unless you buy a much newer year version.

stever said:
Looks like some HR-Vs have arrived near me per our inventory tool (El Paso anyway). Want to go sit in one too. Bet Honda sells a boatload of them.

Need some help with buying a used XC60 here please - thanks!

fintail · May 2015

I guess with a kid being a girl and being away, and today being the age of insane lease deals, it might make sense.

An 07 is old?

Both the Galaxie and fintail were over 10 years old when I was born!

stickguy said:
My daughter drove the old Volvo for more than 3 years already. No chance she was getting a new car for HS. And would be keeping Roberto if her college was reasonably close by.

Going to a college far away just changes the travel dynamics. Plus the I95 corridor from philly through Richmond (cutting through DC) is a god forsaken stretch of road.

fintail · May 2015

Speaking of Volvos, I had a co-worker who had a ~2004 XC70 - had nothing but trouble. Ditched it and got a late run first gen Allroad, and wonder of wonders, had almost no issues - with a car one could usually describe as "dangerously unreliable". I guess 1 in 100 of some cars can be good.

I rode in another co-workers 06 350Z the other day. I must be getting old - it seemed way too loud, rough, and harsh. Aftermarket 20" wheels didn't help, but still, it didn't get me going.

Mr_Shiftright said:
RE: 2010 Volvo XC60: why must I always be the bearer of bad news? Is Shiftright the reason we can't have nice things?

Need some help with buying a used XC60 here please - thanks!

28firefighter · May 2015

My mom has a 2012 XC60 T6. Approaching end of warranty and has been nothing but trouble - engine sludge, electrical problems, etc. Dealer has been helpful until recently - told my Mom today that they expect it to burn a quart of synthetic oil every 1200 miles and engine bucking while turning.

I told my Dad it was time to flip it before the warranty expires.

stickguy · May 2015

Got some " real world" feedback today from princess, from cars we saw parked. Saw 2 legacies, and both times it caught me eye as sharp. Princess also liked it. And saw a forte that she pointed out as really liking, before realizing it was on her list.

She also suggested (on her own) paying the overage to get what she really wants. We shall see. Going out Monday morning to auto row to see everything in person. That should be fun.

stickguy · May 2015

Oh, she drove the sonata up this morning to join us at the wedding. She has become quite fond of it. I may not see it much this summer no matter what I decide to do. She did say having the BLIS was quite nice. As is built in nav(she is a bit directionally challenged).

corvette · May 2015

How is it that the Yukon seems to have smaller blind spots than the Jetta? Either that or I haven't found them yet...

As you would expect, it drives like a truck around town. But on the interstate, it's stellar. Plenty of power, very responsive, very quiet and smooth. I don't need that much room for most of my vacations, but I think it's going to be a great road trip car.

slorenzen · May 2015

corvette said:
How is it that the Yukon seems to have smaller blind spots than the Jetta? Either that or I haven't found them yet...

As you would expect, it drives like a truck around town. But on the interstate, it's stellar. Plenty of power, very responsive, very quiet and smooth. I don't need that much room for most of my vacations, but I think it's going to be a great road trip car.

My son recently sold his SportTrac Explorer and got a Tahoe(used).

I completely agree about the highway road manners, wonderful road trip vehicle, But I don't think it's terrible in town, though.

Of course, I own an F250 SuperDuty 4WD(farm truck), so my reference is a little different. The F250 has a solid axle and leaf springs in front, so it rides like a buckboard!

brian125 · May 2015

@stickguy

I posted lease deals below on the 2015 Sentra, Jetta, and Malibu. Top of the page you could change to any make and model and see what deals are going on. Check out the Jetta $159/ 36/12k lease w/ 2k out of pocket.

http://www.carsdirect.com/2015/chevrolet/malibu/prices-deals

http://www.carsdirect.com/2015/nissan/sentra/prices-deals

stickguy · May 2015

Thanks. so many options to consider. Saw a Chrysler 200 today. she liked that. Go figure.

Jetta must be a 2.0 for that price. Now that is a dog!

28firefighter · May 2015

I would avoid a Chrysler 200. Looks nice, but I had one as a rental and it was one of the most poorly built cars I've ever driven. Every bump it sounded like the door panels were going to separate.

stickguy · May 2015

the new style? I have never driven one. LT quality is not high on my criteria list. as long as it starts and goes without issue for 3 years!

28firefighter · May 2015

Yup. I think it'll do that. The 4 cylinder was quite anemic, though that may be a plus for your intended audience!

ab348 · May 2015

I think a Malibu or a Fusion would be a better choice than the 200. A fellow I know inexplicably bought one new about a month ago, already is having issues (infotainment screen acting up).

brian125 · May 2015

stickguy said:
Thanks. so many options to consider. Saw a Chrysler 200 today. she liked that. Go figure.

Jetta must be a 2.0 for that price. Now that is a dog

yes 2.0

stickguy · May 2015

I don't think I would seriously consider a 200. I just couldn't bring myself to actually go in to buy one. Would get a Sonata SE before that (actually a screaming deal too, I just don't want 2 of them!).

I think if I get her some seat time in a Camry tomorrow, she will change her mind about it. Still my favorite option, all factors considered.

Chevy seems to be a dirty word in the house. Even my wife would nix that. Fusion could work. Heck, my neighbor sells them at a dealer close enough to walk to. Should at least stop in and give a quick once over (or just walk across the street, and look at the demo he drives!).

Oh, I forgot. Ford is a dirtier word than Chevy.

should probably just bring something home and surprise them both! That never ends poorly, right?

brian125 · May 2015

The only problem.... right now leased deals w/ a Toyota Camry LE model is @199 36k and 2k out of pocket. Excluding taxes and tags etc. If you could wait another month or two might pay dividends. Maybe with some good negotiation tactics moving up one more trim level at 199 dollars might be doable.

stickguy · May 2015

oh, I already beat that. Those advertised deals are for people that don't want to work at it.

Already got a quote (started through the edmunds price promise tool) for an LE with the Entune plus package (or a base SE for only a few $/mo more) of $199/mo, if I just put tax (about $510), DMV and Doc fees down. Something about $900. A base LE would be even less.

I chatted with the internet lady. She expects (but can't swear) the programs will roll over, but there is some extra memorial day cash this weekend. Might end up "rolling the dice" that the same overall deal will be on the table come the 4th of July. every holiday seems to have bonus cash!

nyccarguy · May 2015

Happy Memorial Day everyone. Wifey is working today. So I'm home with the kids cleaning the pilot. Lots of rebates and incentives on some pretty nice 3 row SUVs out there. Alas I am staying home away from the car dealers. (My wife took the legacy to work. So there's no temptation to trade that in either.)

So everyone knows my wife's big sticking point with the pilot is the fact that it does not have a power lift gate. My sister bought a 2015 Forester XT Touring (turbo) & power lift gate. My wife threw in a comment: "let me see the power lift gate." Their 2015 Explorer XLT also has a power lift gate. I told her: "don't tempt me."

@robr2

I was speaking to my parents' neighbors the other day. They are "ford people." The woman has a C-Max hybrid and absolutely loves it. She commutes into the city with it every day & they have taken it on numerous trips to Boston. She says it is comfortable & quiet.

xwesx · May 2015

LOL; I'm not sure if I should be encouraged or run screaming when the only comment I get on that V70 is, "looks great in white."

Good thing it is 330 miles away and automatic tranny. Less tempting to even take a look at it that way.

fezo · May 2015

I actually think that white Volvos look like refrigerators on wheels but that's just me...

stickguy · May 2015

all righty. had a nice AM with the princess. 10 was a good time to hit the automall. we were seriously outnumbered by salesmen at every store (except the toyota dealer, our last stop, which was crowded). pleasant overall, no annoying people. Though my daughter got skeeved out by the queue outside some of the dealers ("waiting to pounce"). Sounds like her mother, who did not accompany us.

hit about 8 dealers all together, just to look. that did not take long, when you don't go inside or take drives.

narrowed down the "like" list. Interesting that, even though she has always driving a little car, she preferred mid-sized ones where there was a choice. Notable exception was mazda, since she is in love with the 3.

only took 2 drives. A Camry SE (on the automall test track) and a Legacy premium (on real roads). Did not drive the 3 since we have driven that before. Will go back to my local dealer to try an Accord this week (I was hungry and did not feel like doubling back to Honda).

TBC....

stickguy · May 2015

anyway, narrowed down a long list to a short list, which currently contains Legacy, Camry, Accord (sport, though LX could work) and Mazda 3. The 3 was her favorite (even though much smaller) until we doubled back to the first stop and test drove the Legacy. That is now her clear favorite.

the Camry was not bad. Nothing exciting, but functional. And certainly much cheaper. If budget and logistics team up to get one of those, she will be fine with it. Having to go with a 3 would also not break her heart.

can't really say on the Accord yet. she only sat in one still in the plastic, but did not drive. that may change the dynamics.

I love the Sube. of course, that happens to be one where cheap leasing is not the norm. But, I am working #s and shall see what happens.

Legacy would be a nice, worry-free option. Good size, very safe, reliable, huge range so no gas stops on the way to NC. Premium is well loaded too (was going to consider the base model, but #s on a premium are actually much better, so worth going that way.

nyccarguy · May 2015

@stickguy
I'm a big fan of the Legacy. I'm also a fan of cheap leasing (while money is cheap & residuals are high anyway). Like you said, they are mutually exclusive. Run the Subaru lease numbers, then check out what it would cost to finance it for 6 years. I think you'll come out ahead financing the car. I think they have 1.9% or maybe 1.49% for 6 years. Either way, after 36 months you're almost guaranteed to have equity in a Legacy. Or your daughter can keep the car and drive it trouble free until it is paid off for years to come. Just as a reference point, my Legacy 2.5i premium payments are $405.07 per month with 2.9% interest for 72 months with the 5 year 100K Subaru Warranty.

stickguy · May 2015

well, the whole point of doing this was to minimize cash flow (the tuition bills pretty much take care of all of that!)

need to try the camry again, an LE this time (softer seats) out on real roads. Daughter fell in love with the Legacy, so is coming up with any excuse (camry seats!) so I need to make sure and vet them thoroughly.

so, I have quote requests out on the 4 contenders. Pending that, we are going to go out and drive an Accord (just sat in that) and try a Camry LE (real roads, not the test track). And go from there.

frankly, there are no bad choices in the bunch. I'm sure the camry seats would work out OK, even coming out of a Volvo (great seats, which is good because the ride is stiff!)

stickguy · May 2015

Oh, speaking of alternate plans, on the apron at the Sube dealer there was a WRX limited. Moonroof, 6 speed stick. Oh man I liked that. Thought of taking that for a drive instead, but it might not have ended well!

sending the Sonata away with her is certainly an option. Nice car. lots of goodies. But not like we are emotionally attached or anything. Biggest issue is that it might just be too darned nice.

Then of course, I have to find something else for myself. Because I ain't keeping the Volvo.

current plan is to finish shopping this week. assuming I don't pull a trigger on the May incentives, will detail and service Roberto (the S40) and put that out on CL. if I can sell it now, makes the buying another one much easier.

jpp75 · May 2015

28firefighter said:
My mom has a 2012 XC60 T6. Approaching end of warranty and has been nothing but trouble - engine sludge, electrical problems, etc. Dealer has been helpful until recently - told my Mom today that they expect it to burn a quart of synthetic oil every 1200 miles and engine bucking while turning.

I told my Dad it was time to flip it before the warranty expires.

As much as I love my S60 this is why I leased, I don't trust it long term. But it's a great car for 39 months.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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