Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

PF_Flyer · May 2015

It's getting really old being on 110% alert ALL of the time

stever · May 2015

Here's how to shorten DMV lines (seriously).

Parallel parking becomes an untested skill in Maryland (washingtonpost.com)

fintail · May 2015

Yikes. Regressing towards a mean.

Here's a way to make lines even shorter - no testing at all. We're headed there, apparently.

stever · May 2015

Maryland's DMV just needs an app for that. Oh, they have one, just needs a tweak to save you a trip to the office.

andres3 · May 2015

Better yet, why doesn't Google concentrate on making a good computerized driver tester, rather than a good computerized driver (heard there's been some accidents in the driver-less car arena). I think replacing DMV workers with google computers would be revolutionary.

andres3 · May 2015

fintail said:
Yikes. Regressing towards a mean.

Here's a way to make lines even shorter - no testing at all. We're headed there, apparently.

I agree, in an age where most of us are calling for greater licensing and testing standards in order to lift the level of skill on the roads of America, Maryland is going backwards.

Parallel parking isn't critical, but its a piece of the competency puzzle. Granted, I think being able to merge safely onto a freeway at appropriate speeds even if your driving a Toyota Echo is more important, but I'd like to see BOTH tested. I think we need to INCREASE the testing times, not decrease them. If they want to get rid of something; get rid of the written portion of the testing. That will work to allow LEO's to write more tickets as people might not have read the DMV handbook as thoroughly as they would have liked.

Of course, the CA DMV handbook has been known to have some misleading "teachings." It's always advocating for new drivers to go SLOOOOOW.... when it should be teaching about the conditions where slowing down is advisable; such as during extreme heavy traffic, heavy rain, snow, when your car has 4 passengers in it (extra weight), when your tires are $59 and made in China, when you haven't changed your brake fluid or performed any maintenance checks for that matter in over 4 years.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2015

So I'm passing a car that's on my right on a 3-lane freeway. As I approach, a Mercedes passes ME on the right and cuts in between the space between me and the car I'm passing--at a high rate of speed. Then veers right to exit, tail-gating large truck.

Live expectancy?---maybe two weeks.

fintail · May 2015

It's kind of scary, but I guess that's how things are in a one world coexist everyone's-a-winner world - don't want to prevent someone from doing something just because they are inept. Race down to that mean.

I wonder how little traffic there'd be if there was western European style testing here - half the "drivers" wouldn't be able to get a license, no doubt. Or even if automobile tests were as stringent as motorcycle tests here (still much less than in Europe).

I am in an area where driving tests have been privatized, and are now administered by the driving schools. I fear this is an open door to corruption - buy a license, just like buying residency. I would be surprised if there are any real audit or oversight controls.

Parking ability is definitely something of value in densely populated areas - I bet those who can't parallel park also straddle the line in other parking situations. Merging seems to be a dying art, and might get one lesson in driver's training, nothing in a test.

andres3 said:

I agree, in an age where most of us are calling for greater licensing and testing standards in order to lift the level of skill on the roads of America, Maryland is going backwards.

Parallel parking isn't critical, but its a piece of the competency puzzle. Granted, I think being able to merge safely onto a freeway at appropriate speeds even if your driving a Toyota Echo is more important, but I'd like to passengers in it (extra weight), when your tires are $59 and made in China, when you haven't changed your brake fluid or performed any maintenance checks for that matter in over 4 years.

stever · May 2015

By the time it hits crisis proportions (i.e., the death rate starts going back up), the non-Mazda people who just want to pilot their cars will go autonomous. Or so we hope, right?

fintail · May 2015

Today I saw a woman in a Lexus LX make a quick last minute right turn from the far left lane. She signaled though, so it's all good.

PF_Flyer · May 2015

My favorite thing about those accidents the Google self-driving car has been involved were all the fault of human driven vehicles... EXACTLY the point. A self-driving car doesn't prevent anything.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a neat thing to do, but just like cars that park themselves, brake for you, or whatever... YOU need to be AWARE of what's around you.

I know... losing battle... technology is slowly strangling the brains out of us

xwesx · May 2015

PF_Flyer said:
I know... losing battle... technology is slowly strangling the brains out of us

I am not sure that the process is a slow as any of us would care to believe....

Mr_Shiftright · May 2015

Makes you wonder how long some of these people would have lasted on the American frontier in the year 1815. I'd be inclined to guess they'd be bear food.

ruking1 · May 2015

Makes me laugh @ all those 'city fied" evironmental freaks!

I wonder what the outcry would be, if they set loose those free range coyotes, mountain lions, bears, in urban areas (dining on "urban" critters):D

euphonium · May 2015

Lady in Lexus paid so much WA sales tax, she feels like she owns the roads. Is the % over 10 in King county?

fintail · May 2015

9.5% I think. No income tax anyway. And some of the most expensive real estate in the west.

I bet she didn't pay that tax

elias · May 2015

A3, condolences on your family's loss . I wish I could be surprised by the bad driving behavior around the funeral procession.

Regarding LLC, for this weekend, mass state cops have announced they will be enforcing the keep-right law for LLCs at $105 per citation. Sounds like they might let MLCs slide, but I hope they get cited too.
NH state cops announced they will be going after aggressive drivers and 'distracted' drivers. (distracted = texting).

Just returned from another boston to orlando 3000 considerate miles... via the inland/truck route 84/81/77/95. We did not see much speed enforcement, but lots of stealthy enforcement against aggressive drivers.
Most of the observed extreme-aggressive crazy LLC speed-varying drivers were apprehended by state cops including one in SC. The other was in Virginia. It was refreshing to see. Rejoice.

On this trip again all the observed egregious/LLC/speed-varying drivers were young females. Before getting nabbed by state cop, one went 100 mph in an duct-taped chevy cavalier to prevent any passing on the right, with oil and small engine parts spewing out the tailpipe. This greatly amused my better half. Cavalier must have had a V6, but was not the Z24 model.

My car's mpg was excellent, 25 mpg with real gasoline. 23 mpg on E10. i used 89 octane when the price-spread for 91+ resembled 'gouging'. The car was flawless as usual (2005 GTO M6, 120k miles) . (mpg driving around orlando was around 21 mpg) .

I'm still trying to plan my next cross-country considerate drive. Looks like it won't be before 2016.
Better half is OK with Boston<->florida drive but not with cross-country.

Another observation from the east-coast drive is that there are certain areas where everybody tailgates. these areas seem to be near cities - where speed limits are enforced while rampant aggressive driving is allowed.

elias · May 2015

Aggressive driving has nothing to do with driving at 10/10ths of cars capabilities.
Aggressive driving is defined as the commission of 3 vehicular civil infractions within a ~mile or a ~minute. (That's the definition in at least one state.)

There are many cars where driving beyond 5 or 6 tenths of a car's capabilities is illegal on any public road due to 'exhibition of speed' laws, or 'failure to maintain control' laws, etc.
CTS-V for example. Camaro ZL1. Hellcat can't turn, but buy one and try straightline acceleration beyond 6 tenths in front of a cop and you will get cited any where any time any state in USA.
Similarly, any spinning of the tires or drifting/screeching tires is illegal on public roads, everywhere in USA, even if you are an expert driver claiming to have full control of the vehicle.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2015

Ever have someone open the door of their parked car right in front of you, so that you have to swerve into the other lane, and then they GLARE at you like *you* did something wrong? Makes me want to back up and try again.

isellhondas · May 2015

fintail said:
9.5% I think. No income tax anyway. And some of the most expensive real estate in the west.

I bet she didn't pay that tax

This "no income tax" in Washington is a sacred cow and we still get taxed to death on everything else.

When we sold a condo last month we were charged a 2% Excise Tax so we had to pay over 4500.00 just for that. Then we will have to pay something like 25,000 in Capital Gains next year.

Property taxes are through the roof too!

isellhondas · May 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Ever have someone open the door of their parked car right in front of you, so that you have to swerve into the other lane, and then they GLARE at you like *you* did something wrong? Makes me want to back up and try again.

When I was very young I was riding my bicycle when some guy in a '59 Chevy suddenly threw his door open right in front of me. I about bent the door off it's hinges. I didn't get hurt badly but I'm sure I did some expensive damage. He must have felt bad because he handed me 5.00 which I accepted!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2015

In Manhattan, they call it "being doored" and it's a serious problem for cyclists in big cities. you can really get messed up slamming into a car door at 15-20 mph on a bike.

I was once witness to an accident and gave testimony to the cops on it. A car swerved to avoid an open door and went into the other lane, sideswiping a car coming the other way. The first car's defense was that "I had to swerve" but of course going into the opposing lane is the ultimate no-no. A tough spot for Driver #1--"should I hit the car's door or hit the car coming toward me?"

Actually the correct answer is "slam on the brakes and hope for the best".

I'd hate to rip off someone's door and possibly their arm but I sure wouldn't trade that for a head-on with a truck.

euphonium · May 2015

isellhondas said:

fintail said:
9.5% I think. No income tax anyway. And some of the most expensive real estate in the west.

I bet she didn't pay that tax

This "no income tax" in Washington is a sacred cow and we still get taxed to death on everything else.

When we sold a condo last month we were charged a 2% Excise Tax so we had to pay over 4500.00 just for that. Then we will have to pay something like 25,000 in Capital Gains next year.

Property taxes are through the roof too!

As a fellow conservative who made a living on the commission basis, I agree. Capitl GAins tax is a fine for doing well.

fintail · May 2015

WA still isn't nearly in the highest taxed areas, but WA tax policy, largely based on consumption of normal items, is among the most regressive. It might be another reason why the area is so attractive to sketchy no-questions-asked offshore wealth (who often aren't among the best drivers, either - but money buys anything and everything).

Enjoy that condo windfall, those tend to appreciate poorly - my old one which finally sold in 2006 is still worth about 20% less than then.

isellhondas said:

fintail said:
9.5% I think. No income tax anyway. And some of the most expensive real estate in the west.

I bet she didn't pay that tax

This "no income tax" in Washington is a sacred cow and we still get taxed to death on everything else.

When we sold a condo last month we were charged a 2% Excise Tax so we had to pay over 4500.00 just for that. Then we will have to pay something like 25,000 in Capital Gains next year.

Property taxes are through the roof too!

fintail · May 2015

Unless you are an anarchy preventer hurrying away to bust a wild skateboarder or 10-over bandito.

Today's fun - slowpokes. I don't know what mentality makes someone creep along til they hit somewhere around the limit, then tap the brakes. I got behind two of these today, one had several cars backed up when it finally turned.

And of course no signals, because no enforcement, why not.

elias said:

Similarly, any spinning of the tires or drifting/screeching tires is illegal on public roads, everywhere in USA, even if you are an expert driver claiming to have full control of the vehicle.

ruking1 · May 2015

euphonium said:

isellhondas said:

fintail said:
9.5% I think. No income tax anyway. And some of the most expensive real estate in the west.

I bet she didn't pay that tax

This "no income tax" in Washington is a sacred cow and we still get taxed to death on everything else.

When we sold a condo last month we were charged a 2% Excise Tax so we had to pay over 4500.00 just for that. Then we will have to pay something like 25,000 in Capital Gains next year.

Property taxes are through the roof too!

As a fellow conservative who made a living on the commission basis, I agree. Capitl GAins tax is a fine for doing well.

That sure beats % taxes on ordinary income!

I think the good news are those conditions will present themselves again, AND one will wish one had 5 to 10 to sell !

The banks have been mandated AGAIN to loan monies on less than 20% down to almost ZERO down.!!! I have read in passing risky car loans are way up also.

stever · May 2015

Five myths about traffic (Washington Post)

Glad I stayed home today....

ruking1 · May 2015

The article seems to be making a case for PACK driving @ 55 mph 1 / YUCK(aka, max throughput)

andres3 · May 2015

elias said:
Aggressive driving has nothing to do with driving at 10/10ths of cars capabilities.
Aggressive driving is defined as the commission of 3 vehicular civil infractions within a ~mile or a ~minute. (That's the definition in at least one state.)

There are many cars where driving beyond 5 or 6 tenths of a car's capabilities is illegal on any public road due to 'exhibition of speed' laws, or 'failure to maintain control' laws, etc.
CTS-V for example. Camaro ZL1. Hellcat can't turn, but buy one and try straightline acceleration beyond 6 tenths in front of a cop and you will get cited any where any time any state in USA.
Similarly, any spinning of the tires or drifting/screeching tires is illegal on public roads, everywhere in USA, even if you are an expert driver claiming to have full control of the vehicle.

All the more reason to join me in the S4 buying spree where Quattro AWD and Launch Control combine to make reliable under 5 second 0-60 MPH sprints with not a single tire screeched or spun on paved roads. Perfectly legal if the speed limit is 60 MPH or higher.

However, the Audi S4 manual does state on the page where launch control is explained in a big SAFETY WARNING CAUTION BOX: "DO NOT annoy other drivers with your LOUD & RAPID Acceleration."

Rapid.... no doubt.... loud.... well; not nearly as loud as the old 4.2 V8.

elias · May 2015

so far, I've found that AWD reduces all aspects of performance, except traction while accelerating. so I prefer to avoid it even during new england record-setting winters, where FWD and snow tires do great.

AWD won't prevent a brief conversational detention or exhibition-of-speed citation, if you try a 4 second 0-60 in front of a cop. or 3 second 0 to 50 on a state highway, let's say. been there done that.
a citation for doing a quick 0 to 60 burst probably wouldn't get by a clerk or judge; it would be worth contesting with lawyer or whatever, but who has time/$ to deal with that?

German auto manuals are hilariously detailed if you ever take the time to read one, as you apparently did, A3.

imidazol97 · May 2015

stever said:
Five myths about traffic (Washington Post)

Excellent article. Despite the attempts at humor, the analysis of the waves reflecting off any event back through the incoming traffic are correct. Right down to the change of lanes folks adding to the waves.

Amusing about the idea that a road was built to carry max traffic and that occurs at about 55 in heavy areas.

stever · May 2015

I envision six mile long trains of autonomous cars tooling along in the right lane getting there faster than anyone.

It'll hurt congestion in the middle and left lanes a lot though since no one in those lanes will find enough breaks in traffic to take their exits.

fintail · May 2015

Like many theories, some of that doesn't seem to apply in the real world - like following distance. People actually adhering to developed world lane discipline standards would probably help too - even if it is a tax on freedom or some such nonsense. The right lane thing happens here, today, for that very reason.

Tenured traffic "engineer" types and their well-funded consultant friends have lots of ideas, but they usually can't even get stoplights to flow properly.

ruking1 · May 2015

Actually for right lane campers like me, you get shown a certain amount of justice seeing LLcers who "have" (and sometimes MISS) to make a right lane exit, with long lines of fols going STRAIGHT.

imidazol97 · May 2015

stever said:
I envision six mile long trains of autonomous cars tooling along in the right lane getting there faster than anyone.

Add in the long lines of automated self-driving semis and semi trailers like I heard about through the week that Volvo is trying out, and being a left-laner may be really tough when it's time for your exit: you'll have to cut in front of a semi between it and the one it's following by 50 feet!

stever · May 2015

Next up - no driving in the right lane on a multilane highway unless you intend to exit within five miles.

RLC just doesn't have the same ring to it though.

ruking1 · May 2015

stever said:
Next up - no driving in the right lane on a multilane highway unless you intend to exit within five miles.

RLC just doesn't have the same ring to it though.

Well that has a ring of truth to it! However, defacto 'keep right except to pass " mandates RLC'ers!!

stever · May 2015

Defacto can be changed to de law if semi trains get going - move them to the left and keep them out of the way. Be a good use for all those HOV lanes too.

fintail · May 2015

Just took a spin up and down 405. No real speed demons - maybe 1 car the whole time going more than 10 over. Several slowpokes going no more than 50 or so in a 60 - I still don't get that. A few LLCs, as to be expected on a Sunday morning when people are zoned out due to preaching or a hangover. Inconsistent turn signal use, as this is Murka. Not a single anarchy preventer was spotted, which is good - if they won't enforce non-speed related issues, maybe they should find better things to do.

euphonium · May 2015

zoned out due to preaching How would you know???

andres3 · May 2015

I think more study is needed on why people change lanes, as I believe my theory that eliminating the LLC problem would eliminate the "lane weavers" problem entirely, or at least 99% of them.

fintail · May 2015

Sunday morning. Preachiest time of the week

euphonium said:
zoned out due to preaching How would you know???

fintail · May 2015

I change lanes to pass or exit. In jams, I often don't bother, unless I see a wreck etc that is in my lane. Weaving back and forth in jams doesn't seem to do much.

andres3 said:
I think more study is needed on why people change lanes, as I believe my theory that eliminating the LLC problem would eliminate the "lane weavers" problem entirely, or at least 99% of them.

backy · May 2015

Some other reasons to change lanes:

* Steer clear of someone who doesn't know how to merge onto a freeway.
* Give vehicle(s)/people on the shoulder a wide berth.
* Avoid something lying on the roadway that you'd rather not hit.
* Get into a lane that's safer to drive on. This takes different forms. In winter, some lanes can be relatively clear while others are icy. On some older highways, the right lane is in such bad shape that it's punishing to drive on it for any length of time, so if traffic is light I sometimes switch to the left lane if it's smoother--and keep watch for cars approaching from the rear so I can move over.

hammerhead · May 2015

elias said:
A3, condolences on your family's loss . I wish I could be surprised by the bad driving behavior around the funeral procession.

Regarding LLC, for this weekend, mass state cops have announced they will be enforcing the keep-right law for LLCs at $105 per citation. Sounds like they might let MLCs slide, but I hope they get cited too.
NH state cops announced they will be going after aggressive drivers and 'distracted' drivers. (distracted = texting).

Just returned from another boston to orlando 3000 considerate miles... via the inland/truck route 84/81/77/95. We did not see much speed enforcement, but lots of stealthy enforcement against aggressive drivers.
Most of the observed extreme-aggressive crazy LLC speed-varying drivers were apprehended by state cops including one in SC. The other was in Virginia. It was refreshing to see. Rejoice.

On this trip again all the observed egregious/LLC/speed-varying drivers were young females. Before getting nabbed by state cop, one went 100 mph in an duct-taped chevy cavalier to prevent any passing on the right, with oil and small engine parts spewing out the tailpipe. This greatly amused my better half. Cavalier must have had a V6, but was not the Z24 model.

My car's mpg was excellent, 25 mpg with real gasoline. 23 mpg on E10. i used 89 octane when the price-spread for 91+ resembled 'gouging'. The car was flawless as usual (2005 GTO M6, 120k miles) . (mpg driving around orlando was around 21 mpg) .

I'm still trying to plan my next cross-country considerate drive. Looks like it won't be before 2016.
Better half is OK with Boston<->florida drive but not with cross-country.

Another observation from the east-coast drive is that there are certain areas where everybody tailgates. these areas seem to be near cities - where speed limits are enforced while rampant aggressive driving is allowed.

I don't understand the MLC concept - given three lanes, I would think the left would be fast, middle not-so-fast, and right lane would be the slow/merge on/merge off lane. Middle lane camping? Hard to grasp the concept. I drive there often.

imidazol97 · May 2015

hammerhead said:
I don't understand the MLC concept - given three lanes, I would think the left would be fast, middle not-so-fast, and right lane would be the slow/merge on/merge off lane. Middle lane camping? Hard to grasp the concept. I drive there often.

We all drive in different environments of traffic levels. Most of my driving is on 2 and 3 lane interstates and is nothing like traffic around some urban areas, at least most of the time it's not. On 3 lane interstates I use the middle #s lane if I'm going near/at the speed limit. If both #1 and #2 lanes have slower vehicles in them or are populated enough that I don't want to change lanes in and out, a traffic hazard in itself that slows traffic as Steve's link showed about lane changes, I'll use the middle lane or #3 if I'm at the speed limit or above.

All three lanes are meant to be used. It's ridiculous to think the extreme that is pushed that the left lane should be empty of vehicles except for a few who choose to speed and don't think they should make lane changes in and out of the more right lanes.

The MLC concept is simply extending the LLD philosophy more in that on 3 or more lane roads the left 2 should be barren except for the speeders? As Judge Judy says, "R'diculous."

Before flaming, remember I'm in the midwest where the lanes are not full most times I'm driving. However, my opinion is that if 3 lanes are moderately heavily populated, as in leaving Columbus at 3:30-4:30 pm, all lanes should be used. The lane changes cause that self-amplifying wave to pass backward through the traffic often causing stops behind the one lane changer.

euphonium · May 2015

Excellent observation: Why should the inside lane be reserved for law breaking speed maniacs? Our taxes paid for all three or more lanes so I use them. At 2 or 3 above the limit - I'm a LLC who allows you to pass me on the right & that's not wrong. I choose the smoothest lane that hasn't been trucked up.

ruking1 · May 2015

You make an excellent case for passing by whatever means safely necessary.

imidazol97 · May 2015

ruking1 said:
You make an excellent case for passing by whatever means safely necessary.

Here's an example of a speeder passing a car in the left lane by cutting in front of a car in the middle lane.
Just at the end of the video at the beginning of the news story you can see the Ford cut to middle lane.

Then he allegedly pulled in front of the gray Blazer in the #3 lane and stopped. This caused the Blazer driver to lose control, flip (twice?), and both occupants in front to be ejected (no seat belts?). One died.

The part of the scene caught on the ODOT camera shows the truck coming up fast from behind. It does not show any possible earlier interaction between the Blazer and that driver.

I am sure this is not the kind of passing any way possible anyone here would use.

I suspect the car in the middle lane has given their report to the police but their existence has not been mentioned in any news story.

http://www.abc22now.com/news/top-stories/stories/Police-Investigate-Apparent-Road-Rage-Crash-In-Moraine-136146.shtml

ruking1 · May 2015

Leaving the scene of an accident can be up to a felony. When they catch up to the perp, up to 1st degree murder charge, should be in the mix.

But it is getting to a point of ,...so what? So what was your point ? When folks insist on complicating the obvious, now they are surprised things are now more ....complicated?

Three lanes one way and working HARD to create and execute an accident now felony situation !!! ???

Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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