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Comments
Diesel Cruze isn't a thing in China, but they love VWs, which might be fitting as China seems to sometimes want to emulate 1930s Germany. Hard to complain about them though!
When it comes to who pulls the strings, Dubya and Barry aren't too far apart.
Still think it's hard to complain when your own hands aren't clean.
I guess some think it is hard to complain when some just really want those cheap goods, no matter the costs, both internal and external.
@Berri makes a lot of valid points, but it sure looks like "everybody" does it.
I can't wait to see the next copycar. Wasn't Geely or Chery supposed to be here by now?
I wonder if they'd market a blatant copycar.
If you look at their lineup, there aren't what looks to be any copycat styling. It's boring but not copycat:
http://global.geely.com/vehicles.php
Material and structural quality will be interesting, as I don't believe these sell in the first world, with its pesky regulations and expectations. With used cars being so good these days, I don't know if I could need a new one that badly.
As for the latter point, they own Volvo and we all know the reputation they have for material and structural quality. One of the their reasons for buying Volvo was to gain access to their engineering prowess and understanding of western tastes. All the latest Geelys have had much Swedish input.
What people forget is that not everything the Chinese touch is junk. Having had experience with their manufacturing capability, I've learned that if one specifies low grade, they make low grade. If someone specifies high grade, they make high grade. Don't forget that your E Class is full of Chinese parts that were specified by Daimler to a high spec. Further, all those E, C, and GLK classes being made in China are not junk.
I see nothing showing Geelys and Volvos share anything in engineering, design, or assembly. The only reason for buying Volvo was for their engineering and presence in western markets - when someone is being dumped on the market, a time comes when it is easier to buy than copy. Sure China can build competent things, but cars and laptops or phones are different things.
The E is still ~75% German content, ones for first world consumption not assembled by a leading IP/social/environmental offender. "Full of" might be hyperbole from sources that profit from the relationship with our most favored "partner".
>The E is still ~75% German content, ones for first world consumption not assembled by a leading IP/social/environmental offender.
That would be Volkswagen?
Of course, some just want cheap goods, no matter the externalities.
Many moons ago we had a thread on Edmunds about "Would you buy a Chinese car?" or "Chinese cars - look out, they're on their way," or a title to that effect. I've plopped a picture of a red Geely GC5 on my icon page. Nice look. Italian styling right from a famous Italian designer. I'm going to be interesting-Americans will buy Chinese cars. I'm thinking of Korean Kia right now. People still hate them but I noticed a spring in my 1999 Kia Sephia's step that stuck out to me.
Sure, you can find a better car. But for value I don't really think Kia can be beat. And factor in Peter Schreyer's body designing and an engineering team that can build value cars that last and you've got a car company worthy of being a true sponsor of the NBA.
Take a look at Geely's website. They've got some motion going there. I'm wondering what kind of motion that might be 'round about now.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
As for Geely and Volvo sharing engineering, I give you CEVT - China Euro Vehicle Technology SA - a Goteburg based company whose sole focus has been to design the CMA architecture to underpin the new B and C segment Volvos and Geelys. CMA will be used for a Geely crossover to come out in 2016 and for the new Volvo 40 series due in 2018.
The words "full of" were mine and a poor choice. I should have said that your E contains Chinese made parts and AFAIK, it's not having an effect on it's quality nor reliability
Just how many American automotive manufacturing and engineering jobs are we taking away by heading down to our local Kia dealer and buying a Kia? With parts swapping and buying and selling and a colossal schmearage of shared profit snarking worldwide especially since the late 1990's, I'm thinking we're taking some-but not a killer blow amount.
Especially with Uncle Sam around to help - the Korean government helps the Korean carmakers out, too. Right?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The US can start by killing the Chicken Tax.
Ya just made me wonder, berri, if there's not some buying off corruption going on in the upper echelon of the U.S. government (from the foreign governments) that cause this lopsidedness.
Could it be a duh, even?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
sephia, I don't know if it's payola or just this goofy attitude of some American elitists that we need to help other countries even if it is at the expense of Americans. Plus Washington has been totally dysfunctional for some time now - both parties.
"In 2013, Germany was reported to have gone “rogue” in attempts to sideline greener car regulations that would impact its huge car industry, threatening Ireland over its Euro bail-out, Hungary with car plant closures and the Netherlands with cuts in plant investment." (The Guardian)
CEVT sounds like a simple way to absorb IP rather than steal it. Doesn't sound like a lot of sharing, being based where the bought out entity was/is located. Who is gaining what?
Everything of any complexity these days has a Chinese part, largely due to free/unfair trade. Not all of these parts are capable of crippling a system even if they fail. A handful of parts aren't terribly relevant. Most of these parts are just fine, just like the computers we all use to post here. But, we have no real choice, and computers and cars are different animals.
Yes, some Chinese automakers have blatantly ripped off other manufacturers. IMHO, those are never going to become world class manufacturers
As for Geely and Volvo sharing engineering, I give you CEVT - China Euro Vehicle Technology SA - a Goteburg based company whose sole focus has been to design the CMA architecture to underpin the new B and C segment Volvos and Geelys. CMA will be used for a Geely crossover to come out in 2016 and for the new Volvo 40 series due in 2018.
The words "full of" were mine and a poor choice. I should have said that your E contains Chinese made parts and AFAIK, it's not having an effect on it's quality nor reliability
Keep in mind, I'm no apologist for Chinese companies. But you can't paint every single one with the same brush.
The Daimler-Nissan (Renault) mismash is already being seen with Infiniti. Renissan helps Daimler get into some commercial vehicles it hadn't made before (MB in aller Welt), MB helps Infiniti make some more appealing cars. Either could likely afford to do either on their own, but this is cheaper, more profits to be inhaled by already overpaid execs if the products actually succeed. Neither MB or Renissan bought one another for the badge and access to IP to compensate for lacking it initially.
Not seeing a credible-through-western-eyes automotive attempt from our most favored "partner" just yet. However, I am not magnetically drawn to cheap things, and Chinese trade isn't a key to my salary, so I may have a different view than others here.
The Free Press reported in August that Buick planned to begin selling the Envision, now produced at a plant in Shandong province of China, by the end of 2016. Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Buick still plans to import the vehicle to the U.S."
Buick firm on importing Envision crossover from China (Detroit Free Press)
GM to Import Chinese-Made Buick SUV (WSJ registration link)
Good point about opening the door to the Cherys out there.
Very true and even more influenced by Wall Street short term focus. But long term they may have been better off letting the contract expire and advertising for new workers like Caterpillar did. That weakened the UAW there which still helps the company. The workers know that Cat could up and move somewhere to a port city in the south where it is right to work if there is labor trouble. Hiring new workers is disruptive for a bit, but much of the work isn't that skilled. I rented a new Traverse top of the line LTZ a few months ago. Had around 1400 miles on it. Put my elbow on the driver's armrest and not only was it loose, but the entire panel was flexing. I've rented many of those, so I know its not a design flaw. Rather the result of a lazy or bad attitude UAW line worker. I actually think if Detroit stood up to the UAW it might bring some new sales down the road. So many Americans have been burned by the UAW lack of work ethic in the past.
Chinese Buick will either sell to the expats who aren't buying new MBs in my area, or to fleets
I sure wouldn't buy one. Don't trust China quality or morals. They'd probably set it up to be hacked if they chose to attack America