Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

dino001 · October 2015

I agree that your friend store owner would rather his business model changed, if he could, and sell cars from a book. However, the reality of US customer and his/her need for instant gratification (whether it's cultural or induced from the past) and the dealers play into it by holding large inventories. So, once they have such inventories, they used large amount of capital and are paying interest for the financing, rent for the location, upkeep, electricity. The calculus changes - instant sell of a car from the stock means no more interest paid and more working capital for the next unit. Essentially, the incentives and motivation reversed in favor of the stock.

Upscale brands are straddling between those big volume stores, where if you say "order" you have them running from you screaming bloody murder, and uberluxury, where virtually every car is ordered (like Rolls Royce). They are walking the line between one type of customer, who want a car today and another, who want the car, but can wait, if needed.

Also, some people limit their choice to a color and perhaps couple of optional items (rest is not important), they focus on those plus price, others would rather walk on foot then get a car with a missing feature (or one feature too many).

stickguy · October 2015

Many people still buy cars because they have to get one right away. Accident, old one died, etc. so has to be some amount of inventory.

All custom orders makes less sense for volume, "appliance" brands like a Camry or civic.

roadburner · October 2015

No BMW dealer I've dealt with has ever had a new BMW in their inventory that I would consider buying. For example, even if I wanted an F30 335i or F22 M235i, the cars at my local dealer are all equipped with xDrive or automatics- or both. And most all of them are black, white, or silver. Meh.

markcincinnati · October 2015

Ain't it the truth regarding the limited colors available -- and, at the risk of being creamed here -- why do all these high-buck German cars always seem to have black interiors? I ONCE got a black interior (and that was in an Acura TL) because the dealer discounted the car so seriously once he found out that I would walk out rather than have a black interior car. I got rid of this car as quickly as finances and family would allow -- I get inside of a black car and my mood darkens, my optimism vanishes, the interior seems so tiny, hot and constantly dusty.

Yet, you walk into the Audi dealer and there is this beautiful A6 3/0T Prestige, sport package, upsized wheels, and every functional and fun option man or god has created, all for the bargain basement price of $68K and the dealer ONLY has them with black interiors.

Have we become so uncreative, so bleak, so moribund that we can only "see ourselves" in black cars, gun-metal gray cars, white cars -- all with black on black on black interiors?

Now, as you know, I resent seeing a $ next to the color -- and ONLY black gloss or white gloss are free colors, but the interior options usually provide several no-charge options at least once Premium Package (which they all have) is included.

My dealer actually, now, has a lot of cars on the lot and on the "overflow lot" several miles away from the dealership. But they're all black, dark-silver, gray or gloss white -- most with the dreaded (by me) black leather interiors. Reminds me of:

"And they're all made out of ticky-tacky; And they all look just the same."

Black cars with black interiors must be the PC equivalent for cars these days -- well except they offend the hell out of me.

Oh gawd, have you, lately been invited to a fund-raiser at someone's country club (with valet parking)? We were invited to a fund-raiser to raise money for inner-city disadvantaged kids; "business attire" was specified, so you trot out the dark suit, tie and shiny shoes and pull up to the valet behind a line of black, gray, silver and white German cars (and the odd Lexus or Jaguar) all the while unable to suppress the lyrics: "And they're all made out of ticky-tacky; And they all look just the same." It was all for a good cause, but it certainly was a sad indictment of where we've come to.

I keep telling myself that I'll bite the bullet and pay for the paint color next time -- we'll just have to wait and see if I can actually pay extra for a paint color other than black or white.

What a world, what a world -- I'm melting, I'm melting [sic]. . . .

flightnurse · October 2015

markcincinnati said:
Ain't it the truth regarding the limited colors available -- and, at the risk of being creamed here -- why do all these high-buck German cars always seem to have black interiors?

Because that is what sells. Now this according to a couple of Client advisers I have spoken with. For BMW black interior is the color of choice, I don't get it, since it makes the interior of a 3 series look small.

dino001 · October 2015

I have black interior and I like it. Saddle brown is pretty good, too. But I've seen a lot of white and beige around here. Now - the higher level models, like 7-series probably do have more black interiors than anything.

stickguy · October 2015

After having black leather in my Accord, I said never again. too hot, and dreary.

but when my son got his Jetta, he purposely chose black instead of the tan (could have had either).

tlong · October 2015

Agree, I don't like black. Only car we've ever had with black interior is our Mazda 5 and the black carpet shows every bit of dust and particles.
I've had blue and beige and prefer them both. Blue is currently out of style but I really do like the slightly yellow creamy leather color. Many beiges are out there but some are a bit bland. My Acura TL has a more rich beige they called Camel - it's almost like a light orange. Looks much better than black IMHO.

kyfdx · October 2015

I like black.

In BMWs, the colors are really nice... Terra, Saddle Brown, Chestnut, Coral Red, etc..

I really don't like light gray or beige. Especially if the carpet colors match. I can live with lighter seat material, if it has black or dark gray carpets.

carnaught · October 2015

I've always liked a white car with a coral red, chestnut, or saddle leather interior. I agree, it has to have the dark carpeting. White or silver cars with black interiors, to me, are lack-luster.

roadburner · October 2015

carnaught said:
I've always liked a white car with a coral red, chestnut, or saddle leather interior. I agree, it has to have the dark carpeting. White or silver cars with black interiors, to me, are lack-luster.

Same here, my wife's 2009 E90 has a full beige interior and the carpets and seats show the tiniest speck of dirt. It doesn't help that the more recent BMW interiors don't age all that well; the interiors of my 2007 MS3(156k miles) and 1995 E36(142k miles) show much less wear.

flightnurse · October 2015

carnaught said:
I've always liked a white car with a coral red, chestnut, or saddle leather interior. I agree, it has to have the dark carpeting. White or silver cars with black interiors, to me, are lack-luster.

When I do my ED in 2017, my 440i Grand Coupe will be Mineral Grey with Coral Interior.

dino001 · October 2015

I will have Melbourne Red 440i GC with either black/red stitch or saddle brown. Don't know yet. Very strange, but BMW just restricted the red from M-Sports package just on the 4-series (you can have it with 3). I don't really get it. I like that package for the shadowline trim (black door frames), but I'd likely let it go, as I still rather have the red.

carnaught · October 2015

dino001 said:
I will have Melbourne Red 440i GC with either black/red stitch or saddle brown. Don't know yet. Very strange, but BMW just restricted the red from M-Sports package just on the 4-series (you can have it with 3). I don't really get it. I like that package for the shadowline trim (black door frames), but I'd likely let it go, as I still rather have the red.

If you order it, you may still be able to get it. That was the case at least with my last ordered BMW several years ago.

flightnurse · October 2015

dino001 said:
I will have Melbourne Red 440i GC with either black/red stitch or saddle brown. Don't know yet. Very strange, but BMW just restricted the red from M-Sports package just on the 4-series (you can have it with 3). I don't really get it. I like that package for the shadowline trim (black door frames), but I'd likely let it go, as I still rather have the red.

Hey Dino what is the draw of the M Sport? Currently I'm just looking at a 440i, Track Package, Driver Assistance package, Tech package. The Track Package has the M Adaptive Suspension and for $1700 it's a steal.

Regards to color combo, I'm wondering if BMW is just playing with the web site, since Red was a M Sport color on both the 3 and 4 series. Regarding the Shadowline trim, according to BMW's ordering guide the Shadowline trim was not part of the standard equipment sport, but only on the M Sport, however, our GT has the shadowline trim on it. Like you I wasn't happy with it but accepted but when I saw the car, was very happy.

dino001 · October 2015

I basically like the black exterior treatment aesthetics of tha package vs. standard chrome treatments. That's what I have now., by the way, but back then it was packaged differently. I liked the old Le Mans Blue, no longer available. Estoril grew on me a little, but I didn't like it at first. Now it is my second choice, Imperial Blue close third. Very close, more like depends on the time of the day.

flightnurse · October 2015

dino001 said:
I basically like the black exterior treatment aesthetics of tha package vs. standard chrome treatments. That's what I have now., by the way, but back then it was packaged differently. I liked the old Le Mans Blue, no longer available. Estoril grew on me a little, but I didn't like it at first. Now it is my second choice, Imperial Blue close third. Very close, more like depends on the time of the day.

I wish we could have gotten Mediterranean blue.

dino001 · October 2015

It's the new one, only on sedan and wagon so far. It is nice, indeed.

Sandman6472 · October 2015

The black interior of our white gloss A3 just seems to fit the size of the vehicle. On my blue Golf, got the ivory interior and so glad I did because in the hot South Florida, black is just too hot for me. When I had a loaner Jetta with the black inside, I just knew I made the right decision. The wife has not complained about her A3's black guts and I don't ask. In the A3, don't think the ivory inside would look very nice, black just seems to work. The Audi has been flawless though the Golf has had a few teething issues but now, all has quieted down as I rack up the miles.
Our first foray into the German vehicle ownership and funny that we both did it within a couple of weeks of each other but I fell in love with her A3 but had a smaller budget to work with. Look at my Golf as the poor man's A3. Just love the way they both drive, just seems like a well tuned machine and I always smile when I walk into the garage now. Just wish I could get more seat time in the A3 but don't get much of a chance!

The Sandman

flightnurse · October 2015

Now for something completely different, Ford Focus RS, new HP figured have been released, 350hp and 350 lbs of torque. Starting price $37K, but knowing Ford Dealers they will be asking for 10 over MSRP.. Now, I found a video of what it sounds like, I wonder if this is what the US bound RS sounds like. blog.caranddriver.com/watch-the-ford-focus-rs-oversteer-like-mad-hear-it-snarl-like-a-beast-video/

qbrozen · October 2015

$37k? ouch! It is still a Focus, after all.

roadburner · October 2015

qbrozen said:
$37k? ouch! It is still a Focus, after all.

I'd pay $37k, but not what the dealers will ask. 345 hp, torque vectoring, Drift Mode- certainly some of the most fun you can have under $5k- never mind $37k. I'd consider one if I didn't want a truly fast RWD track toy.

qbrozen · October 2015

I don't think I could do it. Once a car breaks that $30k barrier, I can no longer justify an econobox, no matter how capable. A Charger RT is cheaper, and a Scat Pack is only marginally more.

I guess they are going right after the STi. But I do have the same bias against that vehicle, personally.

robr2 · October 2015

Golf R is $38K but it's still a Golf.

As you said, it's still a compact car. I won't call them econoboxes because that is reserved for Fiestas and Elantras IMHO.

qbrozen · October 2015

I class them as subcompact econoboxes and compact econoboxes.

roadburner · October 2015

Whatever I get it will be something that I can actually say is fast with a straight face- a 0-100 in around ten seconds or less qualifies. My new sled also has to have fairly decent track capability- if it can lap VIR in 3:05 seconds or so it merits consideration.
As you can see, I'm narrowing down list of finalists. Considerably.

flightnurse · October 2015

qbrozen said:
I don't think I could do it. Once a car breaks that $30k barrier, I can no longer justify an econobox, no matter how capable. A Charger RT is cheaper, and a Scat Pack is only marginally more.

I guess they are going right after the STi. But I do have the same bias against that vehicle, personally.

For the price nothing will be as fast, one of the better bang for the bucks cars out there.

qbrozen · October 2015

I'll be curious to see how it does vs the Mustang. The weight advantage and AWD would indicate it should be better in the twisties. Ford's 0-60 estimate is 4.7 secs, mustang is 4.5, and scat pack is 4.4. Top speed of the Focus and Stang are both 164 vs the Scat Pack's 176. Honestly, the Focus is going to have to dominate on the track, IMHO, to overcome its small cheap car roots for that pricetag.

flightnurse · October 2015

Hey Graphic one of your computers has a virus, just got a spam e-mail from you on your Yahoo account...

graphicguy · October 2015

flightnurse said:
Hey Graphic one of your computers has a virus, just got a spam e-mail from you on your Yahoo account...

Really? Hmmmmm......did it come from graphicguy?

andres3 · October 2015

qbrozen said:
I'll be curious to see how it does vs the Mustang. The weight advantage and AWD would indicate it should be better in the twisties. Ford's 0-60 estimate is 4.7 secs, mustang is 4.5, and scat pack is 4.4. Top speed of the Focus and Stang are both 164 vs the Scat Pack's 176. Honestly, the Focus is going to have to dominate on the track, IMHO, to overcome its small cheap car roots for that pricetag.

I'd consider the Charger an econobox, just a larger one.

flightnurse · October 2015

it came from graphicguy@satake7.com It had my email address, so I can only assume it is a virus, and the e-mail account is a fake. Here is the URL they want to click on..

dino001 · October 2015

This is probably not a virus. The spammers scan for names on the internet (facebook, et. al) and then fake those names into those phoney return emails. I have received several emails from my "sister" - essentially correct first and last name, fake return email and link in English with something like "this is cool". Well, she doesn't speak English and even if she did, she wouldn't send me an email in English.

Remove that link, Nurse, as quickly as you can. Nothing good can come from clicking on it.

rayainsw · October 2015

"I'd consider the Charger an econobox, just a larger one. "
As a driver of a current model Charger - what part do you consider to be 'econo' ?
- Ray
Just curious...

roadburner · October 2015

rayainsw said:
"I'd consider the Charger an econobox, just a larger one. "
As a driver of a current model Charger - what part do you consider to be 'econo' ?
- Ray
Just curious...

Be gentle; he was sexually abused by a Neon decades ago, but the memories are still painful.

flightnurse · October 2015

dino001 said:
This is probably not a virus. The spammers scan for names on the internet (facebook, et. al) and then fake those names into those phoney return emails. I have received several emails from my "sister" - essentially correct first and last name, fake return email and link in English with something like "this is cool". Well, she doesn't speak English and even if she did, she wouldn't send me an email in English.

Remove that link, Nurse, as quickly as you can. Nothing good can come from clicking on it.

Well not too sure how the spammer got my e-mail address....

robr2 · October 2015

flightnurse said:
Well not too sure how the spammer got my e-mail address....

If you have an e-mail address, a spammer has it.

dino001 · October 2015

robr2 said:

flightnurse said:
Well not too sure how the spammer got my e-mail address....
If you have an e-mail address, a spammer has it.

LOL through tears. Unfortunately, true. Spammers either scan for the addresses, or use aggregator programs that compound email addresses. I have a rare name and don't get as many spam email, as say Joe Smith would get. For several years I was getting almost nothing, but the spammers finally cracked the code of my email address. I think it's probably due to proliferation and some public domain databases, like e.g. my professional license data, or similar.

kyfdx · October 2015

dino001 said:
This is probably not a virus. The spammers scan for names on the internet (facebook, et. al) and then fake those names into those phoney return emails. I have received several emails from my "sister" - essentially correct first and last name, fake return email and link in English with something like "this is cool". Well, she doesn't speak English and even if she did, she wouldn't send me an email in English.

Remove that link, Nurse, as quickly as you can. Nothing good can come from clicking on it.

Either that.... or, they got hold of his address book, once before.. And, even after his account has been secured, they keep spamming out emails to those addresses. Happened to me..

sweendogy · October 2015

$37k focus - as mentioned the golf r similar car - the subi sti ain't cheap and if you ever been in / driven one it's amazing track car but it's not a sudo lux csr. . Ford bringing this over is cool - prob won't sell many but it's great to see they are making the effort to excite.
For that money I would go golf r - or better yet GTI with a cool 15k? To invest . Ha

Mr_Shiftright · October 2015

Not sure I'd pay $37K+ for a car that sounds like a can of gnats.

I wonder if this car would actually serve as a daily driver or if it's too tweaked?

flightnurse said:
Now for something completely different, Ford Focus RS, new HP figured have been released, 350hp and 350 lbs of torque. Starting price $37K, but knowing Ford Dealers they will be asking for 10 over MSRP.. Now, I found a video of what it sounds like, I wonder if this is what the US bound RS sounds like. blog.caranddriver.com/watch-the-ford-focus-rs-oversteer-like-mad-hear-it-snarl-like-a-beast-video/

robr2 · October 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Not sure I'd pay $37K+ for a car that sounds like a can of gnats.

I wonder if this car would actually serve as a daily driver or if it's too tweaked?

It will be similar to daily driving a Hellcat, GT350R, ZL1, R32, STi et al. The difference is the Focus and the latter two shows what can be done with less than 3 liters of turbocharged fury.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2015

I don't think I could have lived with an STi or EVO as a daily driver, so maybe this car has to be categorized as a wonderful toy to own in addition to something else. I suppose by year 2000 standards it might qualify as somewhat "luxury" but I doubt it would meet today's competition in that area.

My kind of car, though. Small but Fierce, that's my motto.

dino001 · October 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
I don't think I could have lived with an STi or EVO as a daily driver, so maybe this car has to be categorized as a wonderful toy to own in addition to something else. I suppose by year 2000 standards it might qualify as somewhat "luxury" but I doubt it would meet today's competition in that area.

My kind of car, though. Small but Fierce, that's my motto.

I had 2008 STI, it was quite easy to live with and had enough amenities, as long as your lifestyle didn't "require" E-class level. I commuted with it for three years - a bit noisy, but generally easy to drive, steer, not too harsh (for me) on the back. As long as you understood what you had, it was fine. I traded for my current 328i, because that's what I wanted - a finer, nicer automobile, with some more "stuff", even if (quite a bit) slower.

graphicguy · October 2015

flightnurse said:
it came from graphicguy@satake7.com It had my email address, so I can only assume it is a virus, and the e-mail account is a fake. Here is the URL they want to click on..

Not me FN. Not sure what to do. Not my email address, and no one else has reported anything to me.

I think you know my email address, so it could be coincidental that it "looks" like it might have come from me.

flightnurse · October 2015

Well BMW just released the info on the all new M2.. 370hp 369lbs of torque.. Just waiting for the price. Now if only BMW would build a M4GC... bimmerfest.com/news/875697/the-allnew-2016-bmw-m2/

roadburner · October 2015

I hope that the timing chain in Munich's B58 motor lasts as least as long as the clutch- it's located at the rear of the block...

Mr_Shiftright · October 2015

I'd love to listen to some German engineer explain that one....unless of course it's like what Saab did---put the entire motor in backwards.

sweendogy · October 2015

Love how this thread has gotten better as flight now reads the"rags" for the new reads- nice, keep it up - love the m2 really cool - rare muscle thats almost as quick around some German track I'll never drive as an m3/4 but let's hope the price starts in mide 50's not 60.

The 37k Ford Focus - now in taking 24 hrs to think about is not crazy if it's well equipped and can be driven like a golf r /Audi s3 in city non track mode. Talking awd massive power from a 4- seems like it could be a good 2/3 year teaser ford car that would be a hit, maybe not a money making car for big blue but something to build on. I know the festa st has a cult following maybe they can build on it with this.

Deal of the week/ or weak??
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/daily-news-deal-week-2015-cadillac-cts-article-1.2397209

Mr_Shiftright · October 2015

A bit cruel, that article...it implies that the general public views the Cadillac CTS on the same status level as the Hyundai Genesis. I think the author is correct, but it's a bitter pill for GM I'm sure.

Somehow Cadillac has to instill the prestige that the aging Escalade has with the SUV crowd back into the CTS.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles