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There's all you need to know right there. The CTS is plagued with quality faux pas. And, they don't come anywhere near the customer service levels of BMW, Benz, etc.
They don't care enough about those issues to correct them, though. They'd rather revert back to "GM does no wrong" attitude that they had pre-bankruptcy. They've forgotten we dug them out of their hole and gone back to "business as usual."
ATS YTD Sales = 18,839
Q50 YTd Sales = 31,603
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I will say the DSG in the TDI Sportwagen is lazy. I would bet more money it doesn't have the same programming in the R.
As to what the Golf Sportwagen SE is missing vs. my S4:
1) HP, quickness, and speed.
2) Real Leather Interior (though I like the Pleather VW is using). R uses real leather seating surfaces.
3) It is smaller; though more utility possibilities and flexibility with hatch design.
4) Sportwagen doesn't have Audi Drive Adjustable settings for steering, exhaust, shifting, and other characteristics (comfort, auto, sport), but I think the R does.
5) The hatch doesn't open on its own with the push of a remote button like the S4 trunk.
6) Surprisingly, I think the Golf's do pretty much all have push-button start, rear-view cameras these days.
7) No electronic Parking brake on the Wagon SE (big handle still); though the R might?
I'm sure I might think of a couple other things, but this is all I can come up with for features right now.
You can go to the AM and in the space of a couple hundred yards (feet in some cases) you can see the Cadillac dealer, the Lexus dealer, the Lincoln dealer and the Ford, KIA, Chrysler/Dodge, Hyundai and Honda dealers. So, you test the Cadillac, then a couple of minutes later be behind the wheel of a new Infiniti or Audi or BMW if you want.
With the MSRP of the Cadillac so close to that of the Lexus or BMW, etc, and with the ability to almost literally test drive several brands on any given Saturday, Cadillac probably seems -- at this point -- to be overpriced or for whatever reason is undervalued.
I just returned from a 4-day trade show in Las Vegas (at Caesars) and after the day's end I would walk down to the Forum Shops at Ceasars. I found several high-buck watch stores and one that carries many high-buck brands and some less expensive brands, too.
Seeing these watches, I thought about the Cadillac as I looked at the Tissot watch collection and then the Movado watch collection after having looked at the Rolex and MontBlanc watches.
Tissot makes some very nice watches that don't require a second mortgage -- I'd take a Tissot over a Seiko any day. But, once we get to, perhaps, over $1,500 to $2,000, Tissots just seem overpriced. At that price I can move to Movado, but once I get to over $2,000 to $2,500 for them, I start to think, Tag, MontBlanc or even Breitling despite the price jump. Somehow, the $4,995 MontBlanc, although expensive, doesn't seem as expensive as a $1,795 Tissot or $2,995 Movado. The Tags, too, can soar in price, but they don't actually seem out of line, even at $6,995 or higher.
Cadillac, today, may be Movado, in some cases, however, it may be perceived as a high-end Tissot. For me, that means, if I'm going to pay THAT much for a Cadillac, I might as well get an Audi, BMW or Mercedes -- and if I am on a budget and want a bunch of stuff (high content), well a Genesis starts looking as good as the Cadillac and priced appropriately. Genesis is Tissot, but can make you believe you got the Movado.
Cadillac today can't quite pull of making you believe you got the BMW -- other than the price you are asked to pay.
I'm just not in the market for a $4,995 Tissot.
The malls may be a great place to shop efficiently, but when Cadillac is in the lineup, it just seems -- at this juncture -- overpriced.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
In the past, Cadillac has had pretty low MF as compared to MB, BMW, etc., so that helped on the lease payments. It's also important to remember that other brands artificially inflate the residual to make leasing more attractive - at the expense of having a car worth less than the buyout at the end of the lease.
If you think the lease numbers - especially residual value - are about reality, I'm here to refute that.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
And compare that to your last new car, the Mustang GT, which practically cost zero in depreciation over .. what was it, 18 months, 24 months?
As a percentage, the Stang was about 15% through 18 mos and the CTS about 26% through 10 mos.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I do think the M3 does pretty well, but the M5 drops pretty fast at first (new 2014 started at $93k and is worth $68k trade now vs $64k and $50k, respectively, for the CTS-V). I know AMGs suffer. We'll have to see what happens with the ATS-V.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The good news,so to speak, is that these severely sub-vented leases make it possible to have a 5 series for a mo pay that one would think appropriate for a 3 series.
We did buy my wife's SQ5 and leased my S4; I put nothing down. As she approaches 50K miles she finds she cannot CPO the car, but can buy Audi extended mntce. I, on the other hand, can have my car CPO'd and buy the extended mntce. I'll have both low payments and a 100K warranty and prepaid mntce to 85K. By then I'll own the car outright and likely have been under mntce and warranty the whole time with a payment less than my wife's 66 month finance (which did require a down payment).
It is getting somewhat difficult to come up with a scenario where buy and hold is as attractive as lease and dump.
Our plan, unless new information changes things, is for me to buy my S4 off lease and for her to trade the SQ5 prior to 100K miles.
You know, my company just pays X amount every month for our IBM iSeries computer -- and every so often we get an upgrade to a newer faster bigger model. We'll be paying for the systems FOREVER but we'll always have full mntce and always have the latest and greatest computing power.
Maybe cars are like corporate computers. Line items on the budget -- X dollars per month, which seems to yield bigger and faster at every upgrade.
For $700+ (adjusted to keep pace with COL) per month forever, it appears I'll be able to have a new upgraded version of one of these ELLPS cars in perpetuity. That may seem not affordable at some point in time, and I know that time will likely come eventually. Mean time, it seems like keeping current with content and technology will be "situation normal."
Drive it like YOU live.
Of course I'm a always over 100K kind of guy so buy and hold makes a lot more sense. I've had many cars over 100K and even over 150K. When I see people who've had like 20 cars in 30 years I'm amazed. I've been driving over 40 years and I'm on my 5th car!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Is there a spreadsheet (that I don't have to create myself) available (on line) that allows the user to plug in numbers -- and make some assumptions regarding repair and mntce costs -- to come up with the "cost of ownership" for buying and holding (at least 5 years) vs leasing (for at least 3 years)? I'd appreciate a URL if anyone here knows of one.
I mentioned this before -- and it did have to do with a GM car in the spirit of full disclosure -- but my neighbor with 80K on his somewhat late model "paid for" Pontiac Bonneville was, according to him, making maintenance and repair payments that were not too far below his financing payments. He went ahead and got a new big-boy Dee-Lux CUV (Chevy) using the logic that if he was going to make payments on a crappy, unreliable, old car, why not make the same payments and be driving a new car with a warranty.
He also bought a super-nice Ford four door pickup truck (with what darn near looks like a car interior, only nicer) -- and plans to keep it until the wheels turn square. Perhaps Ford trucks are really hard to kill or wound.
Took my S4 in for the 35K service interval + a tire rotation last Thursday night; got an A7 with 5K miles on it; car was apparently a base model with 19" wheels, winter package (F/R heated seats, steering wheel) and LED headlights. For all intents and purposes, the window sticker I found in the glove box bottom lined at $69K. The option packages did not include the upgraded sound system, but, oddly Nav and voice command and BT communications and WiFi hotspot were all included. It also had premium paint (a kind of crystal black). Perhaps Premium+ doesn't merit a separate line item (which I thought odd, since there was an A6 Prestige on the showroom floor).
The A7 was sublime -- library quiet, supple, smooth -- the thing oozed from point A to point B. As Col Potter once said, "there aren't enough O's in smooth to describe it." Of course he was talking about some very old scotch whisky as I recall.
The upgraded wheels and tires (with all-season designation) were probably on the car for styling purposes since the car lacked the sport suspension option. But I hoped the A7 would be a true Luxury Performance Sedan -- especially for nearly $70K.
In a straight line and at triple digit speeds, the car was, to repeat, sublime. However, I really could not find much of that German Taught feel I assumed would be present. Oh hell, the thing seemed very close to mushy, with ample body roll and, despite quick turn-in, a huge tendency toward understeer at any slightly above posted limits upon entering a curve or twisty section of highway.
I had been, previously, loaned an A6 with all of the sport option boxes checked off and it seemed much much better than the A7.
The thing sure was purty however -- but not nearly $10K more beautiful than a comparable A6 -- and driving it although not exactly a chore, was, hmm, rather a disappointment.
I was able to pull into the dealer in the A7 and five minutes later drive out in my S4 -- the main straight line difference was that the S4 is not quite as quiet as the A7, but everything else about the S4 -- from the sound system to the sound of the engine at full cry -- was superior.
Now, then, however, would I have the need to drive myself and 3 passengers on a 100 mile trip to Columbus, Louisville or Indianapolis, well the extra rear seat leg room of the A7 would be appreciated.
I guess the S cars have the power to spoil (me at least). I simply would not pay the extra $13K for a relatively stripped A7 -- and if they were both $57K, the S4 would still be my first choice. Makes me wonder how much better, even, the B9 S4 will be over the A7's.
Drive it like you live.
Just something about the first year for a brand new engine, especially a "twin turbo" design ...
What did your 35K S4 service include?
I told them to include the engine air filter whether it said to do it or not. They also did my cabin air filter, the motor oil, and I asked for a front brake service including new fluid as my pads were starting to scratch metal on metal on 1/2" ring just a week before my scheduled service (took two weeks to get into this shop from when I called; they are too good and popular and busy as a result!). Rotors when correctly priced even the large fronts were only $125 each, but still a hard pill to swallow twice now for me (due to track-use). This time, (unlike the first which was totally my fault for ignoring the sensor lights), I didn't get all the dummy light sensors warning me my pads were low; might need to ask Audi why the brake pad sensors didn't warn me and to pony up for the rotors as a result Also need to ask my shop again what the diagnosis/theory is for the failure of the sensors to warn me I was scoring my rotors with metal on metal contact. Perhaps the pads were unevenly worn from overheating during 100+ degree track days; causing the lack of warning. Need to follow up with them. My front pads are not really meant to be track abused more than probably 1 weekend (they were put through 2 as well as 19,000 miles).
CR came out with 2014/15 results of the most reliable Car brands, and Audi as real-world observance between you and I seems to agree with, is at the top of the chart along with a couple others for good reason. Impeccably built, quality controlled, and constructed is what comes to mind as the right words.
I was charged 2.1 hours for 35K service which included the oil/filter, air filter, cabin pollen filter, brake fluid flush, & inspection.
Charged 1.5 hours to replace the front rotors and pads.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
The cost of these additional services is minimal and, if you plan on keeping the car beyond 50,000 miles is very inexpensive "insurance."
Of course you can elect to keep the 10K interval and for all I know things will be fine -- we have decided at this time we want to be MORE THAN FINE and figured doubling up on the oil and filter changes is worth doing.
We are, too, planning on buying the service packs at 45K which will provide no charge services at 55K and 65K. We will, however, keep up the every other interval (meaning double) practice.
Mine (the S4) can be CPO's prior to 50K miles which will extend the warranty to 100K miles -- my wife's, since we own it, cannot be CPO'd, but we're going to run the risk of something bad happening and go "naked" after 50K on the SQ5. The plan, currently, is to trade the SQ5 around 90K, since a BIG HIT in depreciation happens when you drive the car off the lot and again at close to 100K.
We may or may not lease the replacement for the SQ5 and I may or may not buy my next one -- however, at this point, I do plan to buy my S4 off lease.
Plans are nothing. . . .
Planning is everything . . . .
Drive it like you live.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
I also know that manufacturer's have a built-in incentive to make cars last as long as the warranty, but no longer. Planned obsolescence forces you to buy more new cars more frequently. This strategy works great except some manufacturer's have the decency to have the experience of their customer's more in mind rather than just the short-term bottom line. Also, a lot of luxury companies still offer either free maintenance, or try to sell discounted packaged pre-paid maintenance. It's a lot cheaper and easier to sell if you can say 50K miles of maintenance, and only have 5 service visits. They only need to make it last the term of the warranty, or the lease. An owner might have other desires and concerns.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
my point was, the intervals were much shorter (5k?), until BMW starting covering it, at which time the interval jumped to 10K+. For the same engines. So either they were ripping people off (or letting their dealers do it!), and stopped when it was on their dime, or they significantly cut the confidence cushion!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Maybe this is snake oil, so to speak.
I have no insider info that says 5K changes are necessary. Logic only leads me to the conclusion that 5K intervals cannot hurt and MAY help with engine lifespan.
I really like my S4. There is, at this point, no known US availability date for the B9 S4. I figure I need to keep my current car probably another 2 years. I have every incentive, therefore, to HOLD onto this S4 -- and god knows repairs to German cars are breathtakingly expensive.
So, I figure it this way, "what the heck, twice as many oil changes have no material downside."
If you follow the mfgr's representations pertaining to mntce, you are certainly OK within the OEM warranty period.
Said it before: Drive it like YOU live.
As for long-term reliability, the MS3 is currently at 156k and the X3 is knocking on 180k.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive