Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

PF_Flyer · December 2014

fushigi said:
There's a lot of excess electricity generated during off-peak hours/at night that is basically wasted. Putting that on the grid to recharge EVs/PHEVs is no added strain and even lets the provider turn waste into revenue.

By wasted, I assume you mean that the plant is not shut down, but isn't putting power out to the grid. I don't think that there's as much of this as you might think. There's always power being used at the end of the line somewhere and excess power gets sold from one provider to another.

They gave us "choice of provider" here in PA a number of years ago. You could choose which power company you wanted to buy your electricity from. I don't know what they expected from this. You'd have to be dumb to not pick the lowest priced power, right? Well, if everyone picks that provider, and they don't have the capacity to generate all that power, they buy it from other providers.They have to. Those companies haven't gone away.

There is no free lunch, and the demand of charging EV's that are not "on the grid" right now will be new demand/strain on the grid that's not there right now.

hpmctorque · October 2015

Not so enjoyable to own...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/science/in-california-electric-cars-outpace-plugs-and-sparks-fly.html?hpw&rref=automobiles&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

thecardoc3 · October 2015

That's just consumers, "consumerizing" other consumers. It kind of reminds me of the carp at the spillway waiting for someone to throw them a slice of bread.

hpmctorque · November 2015

Interesting development, if believable...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151101/OEM06/311039999/u-k-scientists-create-battery-that-may-dramatically-boost-range-of

texases · November 2015

Hope it's practical. Lots of battery ideas don't pan out.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

that's like throwing a hot dog to a pack of dogs with the expectation that they will share it.

hpmctorque said:
Not so enjoyable to own...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/science/in-california-electric-cars-outpace-plugs-and-sparks-fly.html?hpw&rref=automobiles&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

sounds like this baby has many years of R&D ahead of it.

texases said:
Hope it's practical. Lots of battery ideas don't pan out.

PF_Flyer · November 2015

Battery tech is THE hurdle. It's why stories like Nearly One-Third of Car Shoppers Will Consider Buying an EV, Study Says don't exactly ring "accurate" to me. When we bought our latest vehicle, I looked at the Nissan Leaf, more out of curiousity than anything else. It's not a practical vehicle for us by any stretch of the imagination. Do I count as having "considered" it??

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

EVs are not going to be a commercial success until they pass the 3-30-300 rule: Charge in 3 hours, cost under $30,000, and go 300 miles on a charge. I don't understand why the automotive press and the automakers don't get this. You need to eliminate a) range anxiety b) "refill" impatience and c) too high a price point.

stever · November 2015

I'd suggest three minutes instead of 3 hours. If I can go ~500 miles, then three hours is sort of okay. 3/300 isn't. The recharge needs to be as fast as filling a gas tank now (i.e., a battery swap, recharge the spent one at someone else's leisure).

PF_Flyer · November 2015

Even 30 minutes MIGHT be acceptable, IF I have a practical range of closer to 500 miles. Here to Boston, a trip I've made before is about 460 miles and takes us just short of 7 hours. I don't want to just squeak into Boston and have to sit for 3 hours before I can move again. And if it was 3/300, the trip starts to approach 10+ hours.

I like my mobility man

iluvmysephia1 · November 2015

Even 30 minutes MIGHT be acceptable, IF I have a practical range of closer to 500 miles.

It if takes 3 hours of charging to get 500 miles of range then we might be cooking with Crisco, carnuts. The closer ta $25,000 the price the better, too. This might take another 15 years to achieve, I think.

thecardoc3 · November 2015

When high charging rates come into play the issue is more than just a battery one. The current that would have to flow is going to demand an extremely high voltage and that increases the risk of trouble, and can even have significant safety considerations. For extended range electrics there may be no getting around some aspects of the hybrid design. (Think Chevy Volt).

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

Now don't get silly on us....3 minutes indeed....3 hours is for a *full* charge, so figure 100 miles in an hour's charge...you drive 300 miles, have lunch while recharging, go another 100...400 miles a day is enough for most people.

stever · November 2015

Ever watch a battery swap on an electric forklift? The most time consuming part is the operator jockeying for position in front of the machine that does the swap.

Hop on an Interstate and go 8 hours at 75mph and there's 600 miles. Toss in three hours for your fuel and the car's fuel and a couple of driver swaps, and you've just done a full day of driving in just 11 hours. Long days but people do 'em, and often do 'em solo.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

Not likely you'll cover 600 miles in 8 hours on an American freeway...maybe in the dark of night snorting meth but generally speaking you'd be lucky to average 60 mph, and with breaks for food etc you'd be lucky to get 400 miles before you've had enough.

Besides these are "normal" people we're talking about, driving normal EVs in a normal routine. Forget cross country marathons, towing boats, etc. Not going to happen with an EV anytime soon.

stever · November 2015

Remember my Seward friend who got that craigslist truck here last year? He stopped over for a couple of nights on his way home from AK. He left this morning after a short early hike and breakfast for the last leg to his winter place in Texas. He's taking I-10 and I-20 all the way today, some 457 miles. He may pull over at a Walmart tonight though - he drives like a granny and he has a winter job lined up he's in no big hurry to get to.

The EV range really needs to get over 300, or the recharge/swap needs to be as fast as pumping gas. Maybe 400 miles is the happy medium, but I think 500 really would be the magic number.

PF_Flyer · November 2015

Every time a prediction on technology comes along, a vision comes into my head of the GM Futurama exhibit at the '64 World's Fair that promised me a flying car by the year 2000. I think I stopped holding my breath on that one when I bought my 1980 Sentra

texases · November 2015

Just got this month's CandD, article about the cheap prices for used EVs, folks aren't too interested in 50-100 mile range cars with used expensive batteries.

fushigi · November 2015

With a fast enough charge time the range thing mostly goes away. Thing about charge time in terms of seconds (of refueling time) per mile of range. With a gas engine you can get, say, 300 miles of range with 5 minutes of refueling. 5 minutes = 300 seconds so refueling takes 1 second / range-range.

Right now EVs might recharge at a rate of 6 hours for 250 miles of range or 21,600 seconds/250 miles or 86.4 seconds per range-mile. Fine for daily driving but inadequate for cross-country.

I don't see an issue with people doing home-charging for daily use and then utilizing a battery-swap service for cross-country driving. The first gives convenience and the second allows for unlimited range. To achieve a battery swap infrastructure, though, the batteries will have to be standardized and warranted.

Alternatively or in conjunction with the swap, manufacturers should work on ways to get the 86.4 seconds / range-mile down. I'd think that 5 seconds per would be a good target for mass acceptance.

Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles