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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Comments
To state the utter obvious, there is no "organized " movement to get that up, say 1% of the PVF. Aka 4 to 6% of the PVF. Just run a few numbers on a cheap calculator, for the utter obvious.
However, VW did/does want to grow its' diesel fleet, year over year organically. Aka, 23% of total production to 24%, for example. To illustrate @ 2.5% of 2015 projected sales that is (437,500) or app 4,375 more diesels .
To wit, the JSW/GSW are niche model HITS ! (station wagon) I remember reading and hearing app 85% of JSW,'s (station wagons) are diesels. Yes, station wagons seem to be a US market tough sell.
So VW has carved out it's US market diesel niche. It is the VW's market ("closer to affordable ") to lose, not seemingly anybody else's to win.
GREAT work on the carving!
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/tesla-consumer-reports-art-doing-160002797.html
On topic, this latest VW fiasco, if they decide to continue in the TDI markets, should probably "conspire" to make VW TDI's even more competitive against gas, gas hybrids,& certainly EV's . This will be true even as VW continues to offer gas, gas hybrid, EV. I am swagging it will force shorter term TDI prices, out to 5 model years, closer to gas prices. I think it will take @ least 5 years to make per car what they made before the fiasco news broke.($850. per)
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1090892_porsche-makes-more-money-per-car-than-audi-bentley-or-lamborghinic
Gagrice should get a chuckle out of the following.
..."Case in point: The Cayenne. It's still considered the spawn of Satan by many a Porsche fan, but this SUV has been the brand's best-selling model for years. Its price and performance put it a level above the Audi Q7, but the Cayenne still shares a platform with it and the Volkswagen Touareg.",,,
The VW Touareg even has unbranded but branded Brembo's brakes, rotors and pads ! The brake system was Ihave read) adapted from the Ferrari F 430, vendored by Bosch. . Go figure?
"After hours of talks on Wednesday, European Union countries agreed a compromise deal that would still allow new diesel vehicles on the road to emit more than double an official NOx limit of 80 milligrams/kilometer for two years from September 2017. From 2020, cars would still be able to emit up to 50 percent more than the official ceiling.
However, that would be a significant reduction from the current situation, where some diesel vehicles emit four to five times more nitrous oxides (NOx) than official limits"
Automakers say EU emissions-testing deal will hurt industry (Automotive News)
Where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, seat belts, CAFE, backup cams....
Next up - German automakers lobby the Chinese not to adopt American pollution standards.
Some of the standards are just arbitrary and make no sense.
Enstrom challenged the scientific research that the California Air Resources Board and California Legislature used to enact policies regulating diesel fuel emissions. And then he was fired from his job of 35 years at University of California, Los Angeles.
http://watchdogwire.com/california/2014/02/13/the-firing-of-dr-james-enstrom-the-dangers-of-bucking-fashionable-science/
On the other hand, we are now surprised the gasser side was lobbing for suppressing mpg standards? Wow! That notion is even less credible than saying there is/are not an unofficial wink & nod diesel hating cabal/s @ CARB & EPA?!
Don't be surprise when the natural gas, hydrogen, battery, EV, etc., industries : each or in cabal bundles gains traction, it will be de'ja' vu, all over again! Mark my words.
Even IF they can wave the magic wands and sprinkle fairy dust to rid the world of PVF gas & diesel use: air quality will be worse!!! To wit, that is true now with diesel cars @ 2.5 to 1.5% of the PVF. So really, it is far from a revelation ! Indeed it is EXTREMELY obvious!
Will that mean three more years of NO social security COLAs? (aka huge US NON expenditures? )
Great (low) cpmd: ULSD!
@ current robber baron CA prices of $2.49 per gal ULSD @ consumption rates of 32, 35, 40, 50 mpg = cpmd fuel of : 7.78, 7.1, 6.23, 4.98 cents per mile driven! ($2.16 per gal ULSD in GA, like model gassers @ 19, 22.1, 25.7, 25 mpg)
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-could-until-2018-recover-104012541.html
And according to the hosts' post, European officials (defacto signaling the rest of the world) have given VW diesels a pass on about 10.515 million diesel cars of 11 m affected..... We (the US) are going to look like a crazed (mentally deranged ) trading liability/ partner, if we continue to call for VW's lynching, for less than 4.4 % of affected diesels. This will be especially egregious, given the absolute JUNK science the US emissions standards are based, not even to mention the government cover up @ CARB & EPA: Kettle black or some such?!!
Further, Europe has probably reminded the United States by way of BHO administration, wink, wink, nod, nod, that they also gave GM and Chrysler and the US free, get out of jail free passes, in the EU, when the US backed the bankruptcies of BOTH GM & Chrysler, not that far back in ancient history. Indeed Fiat also stepped up to buy Chysler, cushioning the blow to the US. VW A is NOT asking for a bankruptcy!!! . The US treasury also made tons of monies, when both threw in the towels!! Indeed the BHO administration bragged how GM & Chrsler were economic wunderkin achievements ! ? This is not to mentioned how the bankruptcy screwed investors and transferred massive ownership to unions and pensions @ tremendous profit? Indeed do I dare say that they used VW as the model?
So it's not that it wasn't predicted, here on this web site! ?
I have a friend that his old van would not pass smog. He is living in poverty and needed a vehicle to get to his MW job. So I gave him the money to buy another beater that did pass smog. The state was supposed to give him $1500 for taking the old van off the road. Well that was in late 2013 and he is still waiting for the money. The state has more excuses than you can imagine.
The simple solution is to match the emissions standards with the EU and offer all those low cost diesel cars to Americans. We can cut the use of fossil fuel in half. You can get 60 MPG with the Skoda Fabia TDI that puts out less CO2 than a Prius for half the price. Not to mention 0-60 MPH less time than the Piggy Prius.
"Diesel cars, which emit up to 40 times the legal level, cause most of the city's pollution." (TechInsider)
Oh well, we'll always have Paris. (Bloomberg)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
For those given to insomnia, here are the China ( to 2050) projections.
http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/32000/32100/32149/fulltext.pdf
Keep in mind that we have approximately 269.3 million vehicles @ yrly avg of 12,00 to 15,,000 miles. Europe's PVF is slightly more @ 296 M, @ yrly avg of 7,500 miles. (12,000 km)
Apple Siri says CA itself is said to have 34.4 M PVF. An article indicated app 70,000 CA "affected TDI's " Given 34.4 M CA PVF =.002035 %. Affected TDI's" are not even measurable!
Apple Siri also says that the price of gasoline in Europe is approximately $ 6.32 USD per gallon (128 oz)
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I wonder how many "could" die, who funds the studies mentioned above, and how many of the academics involve embrace the Prius. Environmental abuse is fine, as long as it is offshored (battery making).
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-had-diesel-cheat-systems-on-v6-engines-too-1740068495
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http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/4A45A5661216E66C85257EF10061867B
more vehicles in the scandal....the 3-liter diesel engine versions of the 2014 Volkswagen Touareg, the 2015 Porsche Cayenne, and the 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L, and Q5.
A story from October 15 from philly.com:
More VW trouble: 2016 diesels have new suspect software
I remember "warming up" my gassers before having IM tests done on them, back when I lived in IM counties.
Volkswagen disputed the EPA’s findings, saying it didn’t install software on any of the newly identified vehicles’ engines that would improperly change emissions. The company pledged to cooperate with the agency."
EPA, Volkswagen Spar Over New Emissions Claims (WSJ registration link)
And oh ya , Mexican drivers with their dirty polluting big rigs cannot be touched because Mexico supply the Californicators with thugs , rapists and murderers
The only reason folks buy German vehicles is as a status symbol over the Lexus, Infinity, etc competition. They buy into the myth of "German engineering" and the illogical notion that they think others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they're seen buying a German vehicle vice American or Japanese.
Here's a good article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-americans-arent-buying-volkswagens-2014-7
http://humblemechanic.com/2012/03/19/is-volkswagen-reliability-a-problem-or-is-it-perception/
And yes there will be a few folks (mostly on this forum) that will have driven a million miles on their VW with zero problems, but even if you don't believe that german cars are as bad as reported, I've never heard of anyone saying that a Toyota was less reliable than a VW...ever!
And by the way the term "appliance car" is meaningless, particularly in America when 99.9% of the time ALL cars are driven as appliances along the interstate highways, rural country roads and in the suburbs...unless your commute is the pacific coast highway!
So the only way diesels will ever become mainstream is if a quality car manufacturer would produce them in an economical car, but that won't happen because manufactures have chosen the gas-hybrid. And why not: The Prius V gets in the low 40s mpg and is similar in size of a small SUV, the regular Prius is about the same size as any other mid-sized sedan, but gets twice the MPG. Both of these vehicles cost about the same (maybe $1,000 more) than a comparably equipped sedan or small SUV of similar size. Then there's the Prius C to compete against the small cars, although with the Prius C the other small car competition is much closer.
When we start talking about luxury vehicles (cars >$35K) then the cost differences end up being more of a factor that dollars saved at the pump and "economy" is longer the driving factor in the car purchase. Or when people view cars as toys versus machines, then any economical logic goes out the window.
hybrid battery packs are recycled.
Hmm, Well you heard it here first. Toyotas are not that reliable. I own a Lexus and owned a Toyota Sequoia. The Sequoia electronics went belly up the first year, under warranty thankfully. I did buy the 7 year 70k mile extended. We sold the Sequoia to my wife's grand daughter with 36k miles on it. She has used the warranty 3 times. Electric mirror went defunct after the normal warranty, and would have cost her $1200 to replace. And now that the 7 years are passed, the tailgate latch does not work. So she has to roll down the window to get in the back.
I am so glad I got rid of that gas hog. And it has Nothing on the Touareg TDI but a bit bigger. The VW is faster, handles better, stops faster, more comfortable, and averages 11 MPG more over the last 26,000 miles. And it cost a couple thousand less to buy.
And now I'm catching up a tad. One of the things I'm now remembering is gagrice's love of VW's and diesels. I don't pretend ta know diddly about diesels except that....smell. Ooh-ooo that smell. Cant'tcha smell that smell?
Need ta edumacate myself on them and this thread is probably as good as anywhere ta do that. Though as things pick up here in Dodge City at work I'll need the Reader's Digest version moreso than the college textbook on diesels.
Lastly, I know someone in here can update me on what's going on U.S. release-wise with the VW Bulli. Gas engines and diesel options both available? Is the Bulli even going ta be built? Anywhere?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And those with German ancestry. Those 'superior race' genes
If Toyota cars are considered appliances then the VW cars are like grandfathers appliances
Touareg is smaller then a 4Runner, and no comparison to Sequoia. Apples to Oranges comparison between Seqouia and Touareg. You might be better off comparing it with a real SUV like 4Runner.
I suppose the only reason why folks buy Lexus and Infiniti vehicles over Toyota and Nissan etc is because of the status symbol desire, and that others will think of them as "smart and sophisticated" if they are seen buying a higher priced brand.
Not everyone wants a Prius.
The comparison is for a vehicle that is great to travel cross country in. The ONLY advantage to the Seqouia was more room to haul STUFF. Having to buy gas every 300 miles vs 600 was a pain. After 36,000 miles in the Sequoia and 26,000 miles in the Touareg TDI the winner is very clear. Not a chance I would buy another Toyota. I do have a long history with Toyota. Buying a new Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. That vehicle had more problems than any new vehicle I have ever owned. Valves and timing gear 3 times each in 50k miles.
I swore I would never buy another until we settled on the 2007 Sequoia. Not likely to buy another Toyota in my lifetime. By the way the 4Runner is butt ugly.
I think also if Toyota Prius was so popular, it would have emerged from the "niche market" status, the original poster criticizes German TDI's for!!!
It also woul have sold more than 4 M units world wide in 15 years.
I agree with you, not everybody wants a Prius! Indeed that's why Toyota probably funded this $$ losing model, so they could sell all the other Toyota US gas models. Lots of folks LOVE gasser Toyota pick up trucks, for example. I have already gone on record stating that I would've probably bought a TLC TDI, if they had them in US markets. Knowing what I know about both, I am happy with the US markets diesel choices.