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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    that motor is in the 3. The 2.0 is in the 3i, and the 2.5 is in the 3s.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    stickguy said:

    that motor is in the 3. The 2.0 is in the 3i, and the 2.5 is in the 3s.

    Argghhh. My wittle head is so confused. When you said 3S, I read it as S3. I checked Mazda's website and they don't make it easy to find the 2.5 comes in the Mazda 3.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Geez, Mazda has been putting the 2.5 in the 3 for several years.  Same engine as in the bigger Mazda6 but it gets worse mpg.  Guess different gearing as it's the same tranny.
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,698
    edited October 2015
    andres3 said:

    breld said:

    My wife got her S3 this past August and absolutely loves it. For her, it was about getting something with much of the "character" of the GTI she traded it in, but in a package that was more refined and mature. The S3 may feel rougher than an S4 (more on that below), but I would say it's much more refined than, say, a WRX. No doubt you're paying for that premium, but once you really load up a GTI, WRX or certainly a Golf R, the premium for the Audi gets much more palatable (at least it was for us).

    Now, I was impressed enough with her S3 that I returned to the Audi dealership and bought my S4 a few weeks later. And, after a few months of driving my S4 and having ample seat time in her S3....I'd agree, for the most part, with @markcincinnati regarding the difference in luxury between the two.

    In fact, and I posted this on the CCBA forum too, this S4 may be my favorite car I've owned. The balance between the sporty dynamic and luxury is impressive. To me, it feels like it falls in between two of my previous cars - an e90 335i and an f10 535i, offering most of the comfort of the 5 and most of the sport of the 3. Sort of a Goldilocks "just right" choice.

    I had debated between the great DSG and the manual, but in the end, I figured if Audi was still gonna offer the manual, I was gonna stick with they dying breed. And it is a great manual trannie - very "easy" to drive in traffic and for me, really adds to the overall experience. Not that there aren't times in my long work commute that I would prefer a nice auto, but I'll take advantage of it now while it's still being offered - doubt it will be for much longer.

    How many miles have you racked up on the new S4? There's been reports the engine really kicks it into gear once broken in at 1,000 and then again at 5,000 miles?

    The main thing I've noticed is the S4 has long legs. Whereas the 2.0T starts to run out of steam at 90 MPH, the S4 will get you to 120 MPH + in not too many heartbeats.
    I'm around 3,700 miles now on the S4, so haven't hit that 5k mile mark. To be honest, the car has felt real strong to me from the get go, so if it starts to "kick it into gear" at 5k miles, I suppose it'll be a pleasant surprise. :)

    The wife's S3 is by all means very quick, but I do appreciate the more linear feel, and sound, of my S4.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,698
    Geez, I guess I know I've gone through too many cars when I can speak to all these cars being discussed from personal ownership experience over the last year or so. :o

    Had a Passat with the 1.8t a little over a year ago, the Mazda 3s just recently, and the current S4. The wife traded in a GTI on the S3, and the daughter has an '08 A3 2.0T.

    So, lot of experience with VW's 4 cylinder turbos. I specifically went for the Mazda3 to get a different feel - a more traditional n/a 4 cylinder with a linear feel in acceleration.

    I'd say there is a very distinct feel between something like a 1.8T A3 and the Mazda 3s. And I'd add the 1.8T, in most any of the applications, feels a bit more upscale. Having said that, I still chose the Mazda3, whatever that's worth.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y

  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,936

    After nearly three dozen Audis since 1977, I can attest to the new engine feel that happens at 5K miles and at least once -- and my wife swears it is at least twice -- at a later mileage intervals. Indeed, my wife's SQ5 just turned 45K miles and her MPGs have climbed to over 27. My S4 with 35K miles is closer to 29 MPGs -- and we're talking over the course of a 100 mile one-way drive from Cincinnati to Columbus at speeds between 75 and 85 MPH.

    Full disclosure, front tire inflation 43, rear 41 psi.

    I use cruise control, my wife doesn't.

    Perhaps other companies produce cars with engines that reboot themselves several times over their lifespans, until I started driving Audis, however, I never noticed this being the case, however.

    Mark, what was your first Audi? While we were in France in 1975 my mom had a 71 100LS automatic. It had in board front disc brakes that had to be replaced frequently, otherwise a good car. Mom really liked it. Dad had a company car, a 75 Renault 30 with the PRV V-6. That one stayed in the shop. What Audi was your least favorite and your overall favorite? You certainly have been loyal, going thru the dark period of unintended acceleration.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2015
    I got my first Audi in 1977, it was a '78 Audi 5000 with Power-pack (which just meant it had power brakes, steering, locks, windows, antenna. I think the sunroof was crank.)

    It had a 100HP 5-cylinder engine, was FWD and at the time it was the nicest car I had ever driven -- even nicer than the BMW's I had driven to date.

    Next up was a '79 Silver Fox GTI (got it for my wife); I remember this one as it had corduroy seat covers.

    Over the years we've had dozens of Audi's plus three BMW's 1 Infiniti, 1 Acura and 2 VW's. We have little to complain about our Japanese cars, but, when all is said and done, "nothing satisfies like beef," er, German cars, that is.

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    HA - I had a 1978 Audi Fox GTI.
    - Ray
    [ Bought it FOR ME ! ]
    2022 X3 M40i
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Lux sales ytd. It's close.


    "BMW AG’s namesake brand, the current holder of the annual crown, leads this year through October with 279,395 sales, a 4.6 percent increase from a year earlier. Daimler AG’s Mercedes was just 553 behind at 278,842, up 6.5 percent. Lexus deliveries totaled 273,881, a gain of 12 percent."
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    Why Drive ‘All-Wheel’ drive cars (that have automatic transmissions)?

    Those of you who have, er, suffered through my 5,000+ posts over the past years know that I am an advocate for – some might even say obsessed with – quattro, X-drive, 4Matic, SH-AWD, 4Sure-4Sure, etc. drive trains. Several folks do adamantly oppose all-wheel-drive, favoring instead rear-wheel-drive (and only rarely favoring front-wheel-drive). Likewise some folks are seemingly violently opposed to any transmission that lacks a clutch pedal, regardless of the tonnage of empirical evidence suggesting some clutch-pedal-less models actually outperform those with a clutch.

    Not long ago, I was one of the Luddites who bemoaned the death of the manual transmission cars – now, however, with both my physical skills and reading habits apparently still at peak performance, I hereby concede the 7-spd DSG transmission (and its shift programming and ability to ‘learn’) offered by Audi (and others) is superior to even the best 6-spd manual I’ve ever had the pleasure to have known.

    But what I’m on about – in the majority – today is the darn near universal adoption of all-wheel-drive as either literally or virtually standard on the premium cars we opine about here: Acuras, Audis, BMWs, Cadillacs, Infinitis, Lexus, Mercedes and Volvos. As a practical matter, here in Cincinnati at least, it has become increasingly difficult to find just about any model from these manufacturers that aren’t ‘typically’ stocked almost exclusively in its AWD configuration. Cincinnati generally does not have much in the way of snowfall, so I find it hard to believe this phenomenon (the explosion of AWD premium vehicles) is unduly influenced by our winter weather (which produces some, but not much, cold and snowfall.)

    The, um, ‘purists’ decry AWD’s weight penalty, added complexity and cost, and seem to associate the addition of AWD to a BMW (especially) or Mercedes (or Porsche) as akin to the brand publically emasculating itself with a rusty razor blade. To these folks, well, “It ain’t a purty sight,” to watch their beloved RWD stick shift wielding brands eschew everything that made them special.

    Horse-hockey!

    First off, let’s stipulate we’re (I’m) talking about the cars we can buy to drive on the public streets, roads and highways almost exclusively. This means I’m not going to presume you’re shopping for a new BMW or Cadillac or even Mercedes C class in the $50,000+ range so that you can drive (your new machine, your personal means of transportation for the things you do in your life) from the dealer to the race track or drag strip (if such things – ‘drag strips’ – have somehow managed to stay off of the politically incorrect list and, of course, still actually exist outside of an historical reference) as if such activities are de rigueur.

    No, what I’m on about here is our everyday (and every weekend) cars – no matter that they may be some form of a Luxury Performance Sedan (brand and model) configuration.

    In order, I say, you’re better off with (in order) an AWD, FWD and finally RWD vehicle – generally speaking. Yes, there are activities and (mere) moments where your beloved RWD may demonstrate its superiority over the other drive line configurations. But, from a practical perspective, RWD for most folks is the ‘least-best’ configuration if you actually buy your car to drive (principally, primarily – or virtually exclusively, that is), year ‘round on our public streets, roads and highways. Conversely, AWD is the best configuration you can employ to navigate our public streets, roads and highways.

    Now, thanks to Bing and Google, it is possible to find apparently endless studies, tests, opinion pieces, essays and love letters for your favorite set-up. However, what does appear to be happening (again) is what was once (in the early 1980’s) referred to as the time between the parenthesis, the time between eras. In the context of both ‘Megatrends’ (the book I am referencing) and the number and location of a car’s driven wheels (and manual transmissions, to a lesser extent), "[Some] are clinging to the known past in fear of the unknown future."
    Believe it or not, over five years ago, in the March 24, 2010, edition of the Wall Street Journal it was written:

    “Rear-wheel drive may not even be that important for some of BMW's new customers. Mr. Reithofer (then BMW AG’s chairman) told analysts. . .that BMW had a survey that found 80% of the customers for the BMW compact 1 series, which in Europe is sold mainly with four-cylinder engines, didn't know it was a rear-wheel drive car.”

    The same 2010 article concluded: “The truth is that most drivers probably can't tell whether they are driving one kind of car or another. As technology narrows the performance differences, "luxury cars don't have to be defined by which ends drive them."

    On-line comments posted in response to this article included:

    "I grew up driving RWD cars in the snowy mid-west. I can tell you FWD cars take all the fun out of winter driving. My first experience was with a rented Toyota corolla near Vail, CO. With a foot of fresh snow I was able to easily maintain 55 mph, with the car tracking like a champ. Any RWD car would have been in the ditch over 35 mph."

    And so it goes.

    RWD may – but it is increasingly difficult to prove – offer that certain je ne sais quoi, a ‘quality or trait that cannot be described or named easily.’ But technology has virtually wiped out the recognizable differences and, I would argue, has – in the best configurations such as those offered by many premium auto manufacturers, literally wiped out the unrecognizable (some would call them measurable) differences.

    Still, some (or many depending upon your bias) front-wheel-drive cars suffer, at least somewhat, from the reputation as being unexciting to drive.

    Maybe, like so many other things (or everything else?), it’s all about ‘da money’ – FWD is cheaper to make, provides better packaging and can also provide lower emissions and higher MPG’s. Yet, with the apparently relentless increase in the up-take of AWD cars, CUV's and, of course, SUV's, that may not be true; it may be that the market [you and I] simply perceive AWD to be the best (and remember perception IS reality)!

    Then, when the market (aka ‘you’) do finally get yourself to the point of either wanting better and better performance, or perhaps wanting the Ultimate Driving Experience, you end up in a top o’ the line 3, 5 or 7 series – with X-drive, natch.

    Nothing even comes close to a fine fine German AWD sedan (as we discuss them here, classified as either ELLPS or LPS cars).

    RWD (like the manual transmission) is rapidly becoming an historical footnote – far as I can tell, most Millennials have AWD or FWD vehicles and can’t even drive a stick.

    Of course, if they're driving a DSG equipped car, they are almost certainly shifting better than you or I, on our best days, can shift a stick.

    . . . and then you die.

    Drive it like you live. B)


  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    I know one thing, the wife's A3 and my Golf both have the 1.8T engine but hers just seems to drive smoother. Think hers is heavier and maybe that's the reason why. While hers calls for premium, mine wants regular. And her first oil change was at 5K while mine was at 10K. I do know her interior looks and feels a bit nicer than mine. Being our first time going German, these are just my initial reactions to what I see and feel. Maybe next time I'll try a BMW just to see but hope they still make a small vehicle like the 1 Series by then.

    The Sandman :)B)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    good banter here of late ... I am still an manual purist but I agree with Mark the transmission tied to the engine of the s4 is pretty perfect. It shifts so quick, is so veristile being a gentlemens salon to a sports sedan in a second and can get 30mpg on the highway- in fact as my s4 gets older (25k miles) it gets 20-22 in the city. Compared to my g35x it's night and day as I was getting city figures on the highway- and I loved that car. On the awd weight issue thing... With the optional limited slip diff you could never guess when pressing car into turns that its awd and weighs as much as a whale. I love the car. I can't wait to drive an s3 because for me it has everything I would need and would love to see how it compairs.

    Well as Infiniti, Acura, caddy, Lincoln, jag struggle to battle the big three a newcomer has entered. http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/news/hyundai-launch-genesis-global-luxury-brand-december-article-1.2423042
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    Sandy, in theory it is not the same engine. mostly the same, but Audi may be tuned differently, which could explain the different feel, and premium. But, more likely it is just that the Audi has more sound insulation or some such. Check the specs on the 2 cars. see if output is any different (peak HP/torque, at what RPM). if they are the same, probably just psychological ploy, since premium buyers expect premium fuel!

    I had this issue with my RDX. Same engine family as IIRC the Accord (only the last letter was different). Had almost identical (within 1-2) ratings both ways, at the same RPM. I could find no difference that meant premium recommended on the Acura but not the Honda applications.

    I have used both. Never found a difference.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    edited November 2015

    Those of you who have, er, suffered through my 5,000+ posts over the past years . . .

    It was noted that during a recent "downturn" in the business cycle, your posts dried up to a mere trickle. Some were even short.

    Business must be really good these days.

    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Mark....once again, good observations.

    Given that Mark and I live in the same area of OH (Cincinnati and its 'burbs), I concur, we get little in the way of snowfall. When and if we do get it, it's either a dusting, or a BIG snow storm. I have a snow blower. I've gone 2-3 years sometimes without using it.

    So, why the AWD in ELLPS? Must be a "tick box" for the upscale brands, particularly once they cross that $50K threshold. Personally, I would have no issues going RWD...matter of fact, I had done so for years with no ill effects. But, there's a perception around here....you pay that sort of money, you better get all the manufacturer's tech/features that come in their play book. AWD is one of them.

    All that said, AWD mechanisms have become pretty sophisticated (everyone has a version of torque vectoring these days), and effects handling in a very positive way. Plus, the days of yore, when AWD systems were big, clunky and heavy, have passed. They are now controled by computer, using light(er) weight materials and seem to be fairly robust and reliable.

    IF it weren't for the enhanced handling of the Torque Vectoring AWD systems today, I'd probably look to buy my cars in warmer climes where I could find RWD examples to buy, and drive them up here to park in the GG estate.

    Sween...I heard about the Genesis finally moving to be its own brand. I think it's the right move for them. That's the ONLY way they'll get ELLPS people in their showrooms.

    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    I am very much looking forward to the "brand" Genesis. I think this move could poke and prod the Germans and the Japanese (and I hope the Americans) to provide even more in the way of features, functions, reliability and durability, and of course, performance.

    Competition will strengthen the category -- good for us all.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,144

    I am very much looking forward to the "brand" Genesis. I think this move could poke and prod the Germans and the Japanese (and I hope the Americans) to provide even more in the way of features, functions, reliability and durability, and of course, performance.

    Competition will strengthen the category -- good for us all.

    The problem is that Hyundai won't be putting the "Genesis" brand into their own stores. It will be more like Scion - a corner of an existing Hyundai store. Not sure if they are forcing the dealers to upgrade their facilities if they want to carry the 'brand', either.

    My Hyundai store does the most volume in the state, but the facilities - both sales and service - are a bit shop-worn. Not sure you can provide a "Lexus-like" experience that way.

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  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    One word should be at the top of "the memo" to [US] Genesis store owners: Phaeton
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,144

    One word should be at the top of "the memo" to [US] Genesis store owners: Phaeton

    Exactly.

    And, VW already has a luxury brand - Audi. Still don't understand what they were thinking bringing that to the US. Or anywhere, for that matter.

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  • rbirns1rbirns1 Member Posts: 311
    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Standalone stores were the plan. Then that nasty little worldwide recession hit and they had to scale back. Nobody was interested in spending the money to launch a new luxury brand. 
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,144
    Remember, Mazda thought about doing this as well back in the 90's - brand was to be called "Amati". Would have included the Millenia and, I think, the 929.

    I agree - stand alone stores are really needed to make this work. Hard to sell $15K Accents alongside the $60K Equus and provide the type of buying and servicing experience expected by the buyers of the latter.

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  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    I read the test report of the new Genesis 5.0 sedan in C&D, and, mostly, the report indicates the Genesis 5.0 Ultimate Super-duper bla bla bla could be considered to be a lot of car for the money (and the handling issues seem to have been largely erased, to boot) -- if it were a Mercedes E class. The issue is that certain less than impressive feeling of going into the dealership and seeing the $50K+ Genesis alongside some lesser model priced (via lipstick painted on the windshield [very claaaasssy]) well below $20K.

    At least the A3's seem to not be THAT out of character next to the A6's over at the Audi dealer.

    And, as was mentioned above, the service department at the Audi, BMW and Mercedes dealerships are brilliantly lit and hospital surgical suite clean (or so it seems). But the Hyundai service bays, while probably competent don't look like places I'd want to walk in/on in my Cole-Haan's.

    The whole "Genesis as a brand" vibe, currently, needs a refresh. At least the brand -- naming -- will be undergoing rationalization, à la Audi, BMW, Cadillac and even Infiniti (mostly), etc.

    Now, then, speaking of VW, the new VW stores have very nice service departments and waiting rooms -- perhaps not quite up to BMW or Lexus standards, but close enough for Jazz. Of course we have a Lexus dealer that has a big buck chandelier hanging prominently in the customer area; and, we also have a Chevy dealer with a huge "wall of fire" fireplace in it as well as a sort of mini Chevy museum inside the customer area. Go figure.

    Nevertheless, there is something about the Genesis line that I believe foreshadows a serious threat to the high-zoot Europeans. And, I like that -- keeps them on their toes.

    At this point, though, I agree with those who find the juxtaposition of the Genesis line with the Hyundai line somewhat difficult to swallow.

    Time will tell.
  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,936
    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

    I think that is one of the issues that Ford has with Lincoln. A lot of Lincoln dealers are included with Ford dealerships and not stand alone. The Ford dealers around here are pretty generic and don't provide that special atmosphere and experience that luxury buyers seek,

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    My Jag/LR dealer was going through an upgrade when I purchased the XF. But, as the XF hasn't given me any reason to return to the dealer, I've only been back once for the first, complimentary service about a year ago. Man, I'm not getting my $ worth, in terms of free food offered at the dealer!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    sda said:

    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

    I think that is one of the issues that Ford has with Lincoln. A lot of Lincoln dealers are included with Ford dealerships and not stand alone. The Ford dealers around here are pretty generic and don't provide that special atmosphere and experience that luxury buyers seek,
    Around here, they forced the Lincoln dealers to become standalone several years ago. Plus, they closed some, too. So, maybe closing some of their stores allowed the stand alones to harvest more customers and be able to make it on their own.

    laurasdada.....Jag store near my 'burg has a beautiful dealership. Probably as impressive as any luxo dealer in the city, including Porsche.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Crossed 35K miles in the S4 and it still hasn't given me a good reason to go to the dealer for warranty service.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter is looking to get in touch with car owners who are waiting for replacement parts, etc. for their faulty Takata air bags. If you're an affected owner and you'd like to help, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Monday, November 9, 2015.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    that's an *enormously* expensive enterprise.
    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    andres3 said:

    Crossed 35K miles in the S4 and it still hasn't given me a good reason to go to the dealer for warranty service.

    Same here -- the only thing, other than mntce, we've done is replace the OEM Grand Touring tires at 30K miles.

    This one may finally dethrone my all-time fave Audi, my 1995 S6.

    It [the 2014 S4] has already zipped past my 1997 A8 as a far better performing (and luxurious) car.

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited November 2015
    Oil change costs may be headed for steep drop

    Motor-oil maker Castrol, a division of BP, recently claimed its technicians have achieved a breakthrough in engine-lubrication design that makes it easy to change the oil in a vehicle in as little as 90 seconds.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/07/oil-change-costs-quick-lube-castrol-nexcel/74615512/

    Regarding oil change intervals:
    "Improvements in the quality and durability of modern oil have removed the need to change it at 3,000-mile intervals," Kelley Blue Book analyst Karl Brauer said in an email. "Consumers are wasting their time and money if they change oil with less than 5,000 miles on it."

    Kelley Blue Book analyst Rebecca Lindland said "engine technology has evolved so the engine runs cleaner and oil last longer, allowing for more miles between changes."

    Many vehicles can travel 5,000, 7,000, 10,000 or 15,000 miles before needing an oil change, according to the California Department of Resources Recycling and Recovery. To be sure, however, AAA recommends checking your oil level once a month to ensure smooth operation.

    Drivers should check their owner's manuals to see when the manufacturer recommends getting an oil change. Many vehicles from the 2000 model year and newer can be checked here: /www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/FindInterval/.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I had read about that new system from Castrol on another forum. It's a great idea but it will require the commitment from an automaker in order to get it started. Who will be the first?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    interesting. but probably not as great as it may seem. First of all, hard to see it being cheaper overall, since you still have to pay for the oil, and the contraption.

    plus, to get a 90 second change, you are giving up key parts of the process. That is, inspecting the underside of the car, and checking all the other fluids, air filter, etc. That is the biggest part of the infrequent service, which tends to be generically referred to as an "oil change".

    heck, the changing the oil part of it probably only takes 5 minutes or less. Drive over the pit, pop the hood, remove filter, put on new filter, put in oil, drive away. Oh, remember to close hood!

    does look like a slick system. I assume the filter is all built in (but can you top up the oil level in it?). Could also have advantages in packaging, if it works like a dry sump so no oil pan needed? Would have to see a better description of it.

    but purely in terms of changing the oil, I still want every thing else checked at the same time. I can spare the 1/2-1.0 hours once a year!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    Our experience with Acura, Audi, BMW and Infiniti over the past decade+ is that the oil change includes an inspection, report and other fluids top off; also included is a wash and vacuum. Tire pressure, too, is checked and set and sometimes tire rotation is part of the deal.

    We drop the car off at 6PM, pick up the loaner and come back the next day at 6PM and pick up the car; conversely, if you don't want that level of involvement, you can opt for the dealer to come to you, pick up the car, leave a loaner and return later with your car, all services accomplished.

    90 second oil changes seem like something you might want on your car once the od shows in excess of 50,000 miles -- MAYBE.. My opinion is that I want to visit the dealer for the above noted services even after the warranty has expired.

    Of course, THIS TIME, my grand plan (?) is to "CPO" my own car (at the dealership) which will extend the factory warranty to 100,000 miles. This "experiment" also includes buying two "service packs" which will take the factory mntce program to 85,000 miles.

    My wife's 2014 SQ5 just hit 49,900 miles -- and we're going to "run naked" on this one -- thinking we'll trade it in sometime shortly after it crosses 90,000 miles, since there seems to be a huge resale drop in value at about 100K miles.

    This is all new territory for us, since her SQ5 is the first car we've owned since 1977.

    I'll let you know how this works out in a couple of years.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    stickguy said:

    interesting. but probably not as great as it may seem. First of all, hard to see it being cheaper overall, since you still have to pay for the oil, and the contraption.

    plus, to get a 90 second change, you are giving up key parts of the process. That is, inspecting the underside of the car, and checking all the other fluids, air filter, etc. That is the biggest part of the infrequent service, which tends to be generically referred to as an "oil change".

    heck, the changing the oil part of it probably only takes 5 minutes or less. Drive over the pit, pop the hood, remove filter, put on new filter, put in oil, drive away. Oh, remember to close hood!

    does look like a slick system. I assume the filter is all built in (but can you top up the oil level in it?). Could also have advantages in packaging, if it works like a dry sump so no oil pan needed? Would have to see a better description of it.

    but purely in terms of changing the oil, I still want every thing else checked at the same time. I can spare the 1/2-1.0 hours once a year!

    Correct. Dry sump and the oil filter is integrated. As for the underside inspections, that can still be done as part of a service.

    A major benefit is the ability to recycle the system. The used units and the oil are returned to Castrol and they in turn would ensure the oil and the components are disposed of in an environmentally friendly manner. Of course, Castrol has a business angle as well. Since they own the patent, any vehicle outfitted with Nexcell would have to use this cartridge.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hey, they could also sell a follow-up oil analysis!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    that unit looks like it takes up a lot of space. Seemed to be as big as a battery. that is going to be a tough sell. Sure, they free up room at the bottom of the engine, but that won't help with packaging under the hood! Unless they put it on top of the engine, like the old Subaru's that had the spare tire there.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    Hyundai just announced a new upscale brand, Genesis. They say something like 4 or 5 models will be introduced. Interesting. Probably not right away, but if the brand sticks, I'm sure thy'l bring one to ELLPS, it's going to be interesting how it will score.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Michaell said:


    Exactly.

    And, VW already has a luxury brand - Audi. Still don't understand what they were thinking bringing that to the US. Or anywhere, for that matter.

    It was simple, VW wanted to let buyers know that their cars are just as good as those other premium brands. Look at their product back then, the passt was really high end as far as fit and finish, and materials used, but it also was more expensive then the Camry's and Accords too. But we know that the upscale of VW failed and the bean counters got a hold of the cars, the new passt is nice, but no where as nice as the previous gen. The Golf feels upscale and some of the materials used is nicer then what one would get in Sentra or Corrola but those cars have more standard equipment then the Golf.

    BTW, I wonder how many "joe" buying public knows that VW, Audi and Porsche are all owned by the same company? When we were looking for a SUV, we looked at the Touareg TDI, the salesman didn't mention that the Audi Q7 and Touareg were the same SUV.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

    Rick would get calls from the Hyundai deal to come and trade in his Genesis and the salesman would give him the big pitch about how Hyundai has made strides in quality and refinement. On one of his secret shopping assignment we went to a Kia dealer to look at the new (then) Cadenza, we both liked the car, it was room, the list of standard equipment was extensive and the price (base) was right in the middle of the V6 Honda Accord line.Talking with the salesman we asked about the K900, he laughed and told us that each Kia dealer was getting 1, and that is it. But of course some dealers didn't sell it and did a dealer trade to move it off the lot, the car was more of an exercise in, "look what we can do, and showcase what Kia could be." When it comes to Hyundai and the Genises and Equus I think you are going to see Hyundai move up scale with that brand. Both cars are bargains, they are reliable, and really a good bang for the buck, it has taken Hyundai years to be able to sell cars like those here, and yes, Virginia they really do sell Equus. I'm thinking the accents cars are going away, and left for Kia to sell.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    stickguy said:

    that unit looks like it takes up a lot of space. Seemed to be as big as a battery. that is going to be a tough sell. Sure, they free up room at the bottom of the engine, but that won't help with packaging under the hood! Unless they put it on top of the engine, like the old Subaru's that had the spare tire there.

    If the car is designed with it in mind, the space would be made. I just opened the hood of my new Passat after owning it two days and there is a giant space available for something like it.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015

    Michaell said:


    Exactly.

    And, VW already has a luxury brand - Audi. Still don't understand what they were thinking bringing that to the US. Or anywhere, for that matter.

    It was simple, VW wanted to let buyers know that their cars are just as good as those other premium brands. Look at their product back then, the passt was really high end as far as fit and finish, and materials used, but it also was more expensive then the Camry's and Accords too. But we know that the upscale of VW failed and the bean counters got a hold of the cars, the new passt is nice, but no where as nice as the previous gen. The Golf feels upscale and some of the materials used is nicer then what one would get in Sentra or Corrola but those cars have more standard equipment then the Golf.

    BTW, I wonder how many "joe" buying public knows that VW, Audi and Porsche are all owned by the same company? When we were looking for a SUV, we looked at the Touareg TDI, the salesman didn't mention that the Audi Q7 and Touareg were the same SUV.
    Wellllll . . . the platform underpinning the Cayenne, Q7 and Touareg are shared. The new Macaan shares about 1/3 of its foundation, so to speak, with the SQ5, but each company puts it own completely different finishing touches on their versions.

    I have a great deal of fondness for the VW Touareg, but few would think it was same SUV as the Cayenne.

    The various brands do much to differentiate their offspring from the donor chassis. Audi and Porsche use different transmissions, engines, etc. VW, no matter how high up the chain it goes isn't the same SUV (as the others) any more than the Passat is, er, an A6, etc.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    My blasted S4 has a leaky windshield washer fluid tank just discovered at 37,000 miles. Begin the Audi bashing here......
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    At least the fluid tank will be replaced under warranty. Things happen. Doesn't sound like this rises to the level of bashing.

    I could be wrong.
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    No Audi bashing here yet... 27k miles, $300 oil change 5k miles ago my only real grip. I get over 20 mpg in the city close to 30 on the highway would be a big deal if gas was $4 a gallon but still outstanding nonetheless givin this pup is pulling me at good speed most on ramps. Went 10 miles the last Sunday in 9 minutes including city driving - very proud of that given city I live in. Winter tires and rims now on the experience not as fun (or stylish) but I will be laughing at f150 owners once we get a decent snow storm- like we did every week last year.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    So the big day finally arrived, 10 weeks after dropping it off in Pairs, Ricks car arrived at the dealership.



    We drove slightly under 2K miles on our trip.



    Windows got tinted, 35% all around.




  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Enjoy and have a blessed Thanksgiving to all!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    pretty car. love the colors.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    FN....very cool! Glad you finally got it home.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
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