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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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Comments

  • corvettecorvette United StatesPosts: 6,992
    berri said:

    I like those dealers where they have an official looking price sticker that includes make up mark-up crap. That's a signal to just turn around and move on.

    Yes, and that explains the gold trim on most Lexuses and spoilers/pinstripes on a lot of Hondas in the 1990s.
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,268
    I like the Bluetooth streaming, no wires hanging around! It's only in the last two years or so really becoming commonplace. My 2012 Lacrosse with every option box checked only had it for phone. If you wanted music you had to plug in.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,909
    fintail said:

    I am a satellite radio addict now. Local radio here is iffy, I kind of like having a surprise about what song is next so homemade playlists don't work, etc. I bargained at my last renewal. I've never even used bluetooth streaming before.

    I technically have 11 months left in the lease before a pull forward possibility, but I looked at a couple cars on the local dealer's lot today, just for the heck of it. I was disappointed in the misinformation - both were Tex cars, but the sticker said "leather" - sounds like a way to get sued once the new buyer finds out. One said "luxury package", when it was not a lux car. No posted price, which is a turn off too. This dealership changed hands relatively recently, and I fear this is the new way.

    I have had satellite radio for about 4 years now, that is until this month. Had a renewal coming up and we had been paying about $100. annually for each of two cars. In the past I just called in near renewal and said I wanted to cancel the service. This always kicked off a big sales pitch that I could keep the old rate. This year they wanted to double to $200. for each car. When I called in to cancel they just said OK, so no more satellite radio. Actually in my wife's car it is still working 2 weeks past expiration.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,946
    fintail said:

    These were CPO cars, so the stickers were dealer-made, but apparently to no accuracy standard. It might be that part of sales where knowing how to sell vastly trumps knowing the product.

    I would have thought that if it was a MB at a MB dealer, the sticker would be generated by the VIN, thus an accurate description of standard and optional equipment.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,174
    edited November 2015
    Re: have had satellite radio for about 4 years now, that is until this month. Had a renewal coming up and we had been paying about $100. annually for each of two cars. In the past I just called in near renewal and said I wanted to cancel the service. This always kicked off a big sales pitch that I could keep the old rate. This year they wanted to double to $200. for each car. When I called in to cancel they just said OK, so no more satellite radio. Actually in my wife's car it is still working 2 weeks past expiration.


    After about 2 weeks cancellation you'll get some good offers in the mail. So you will have it back before long. I just renewed mine for one car. I had to ask for a supervisor to get the promo rate again. I'll have to go through the same song and dance this week for the other car. Such silly games they play.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 129,712
    suydam said:

    Re: have had satellite radio for about 4 years now, that is until this month. Had a renewal coming up and we had been paying about $100. annually for each of two cars. In the past I just called in near renewal and said I wanted to cancel the service. This always kicked off a big sales pitch that I could keep the old rate. This year they wanted to double to $200. for each car. When I called in to cancel they just said OK, so no more satellite radio. Actually in my wife's car it is still working 2 weeks past expiration.


    After about 2 weeks cancellation you'll get some good offers in the mail. So you will have it back before long. I just renewed mine for one car. I had to ask for a supervisor to get the promo rate again. I'll have to go through the same song and dance this week for the other car. Such silly games they play.

    FYI, Sirius/XM have activated all cancelled subscriptions through 12/6 as a promotion - that probably explains why it's still working.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,241
    If you do want to just go on normal rates, the additional radios are discounted. Last I did that it was ~$15 for the primary and ~$10 each secondary per month.

    Right now I have separate accounts on all 3 cars thanks to rolling over promo intro periods. A pain to keep them straight, but it is saving me money! At some point I probably consolidate. But not yet.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,268
    XM is a mess IMO.  Too many promotions etc... I don't even know at the moment if I'm active or not.  My CC changed numbers months ago due to a security thing and I've never told them the new number and they haven't charged me for at least 7 months.  

    Im sure the wife will tell me when it's no longer active and I'll ask for the promotion. 

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,522
    This one was definitely made via a template of some kind, as other cars had similar stickers, likely with similar inaccuracies. The dealer is AutoNation now - they might use the same template for all cars.

    Regarding XM above, I think there's also a music only option that is cheaper and cuts out some of the talk and news, if that matters.
    sda said:



    I would have thought that if it was a MB at a MB dealer, the sticker would be generated by the VIN, thus an accurate description of standard and optional equipment.

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,174
    Yes, there is, but you lose the sports stations.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,360
    rayainsw said:

    I drove the charger over 850 miles this past week – primarily to visit friends on the Florida Panhandle. I am now at just over 14,500 miles & just over 10 months in service.
    The car drove perfectly, and averaged over 25 MPG [ the highway EPA rating], including some ‘in town, running around’ miles. And averaging over 70 MPH for significant stretches of Interstate.
    The last fuel fill was over 400 miles – showing 27.2 MPG and 30 miles Range remaining \ ‘Distance To Empty’. Again, including some less-than-ideal driving conditions.
    [ Actual MPG for this leg = 26.0 - 19 gallon tank. ]
    It still shows no wear. Tires still show excellent tread. No rattles, squeaks, moans or groans.
    - Ray
    No excuse to trade – just yet . . .
    [ Wait - do I need an excuse \ reason ????? ]

    I have to say, if I could find an R/T with the Road and Track and Beats Audio packages without a sunroof I would be sorely tempted.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,809
    edited November 2015
    Went through the "song and dance" routine with talking to the cancellation dept. just before my time was up. Instead of them offering, or agreeing to my request for the promotional rate, they just said no. She did say to "check our offers to you on-line". I used this link: https://care.siriusxm.com/winback_view.action?plans=sir_aud_evt,promo - select - 5mo - 19.99 - and got a great deal, 6 mos. for under $30 including tax and fees. Just got to remember to set a reminder a few days before it ends to cancel, or try and get another good offer.
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 129,712
    suydam said:

    Yes, there is, but you lose the sports stations.

    My latest renewal for the Elantra was for the "Mostly Music" package .. I miss the NFL channel on Sundays when I am delivering.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,909
    fintail said:

    This one was definitely made via a template of some kind, as other cars had similar stickers, likely with similar inaccuracies. The dealer is AutoNation now - they might use the same template for all cars.

    Regarding XM above, I think there's also a music only option that is cheaper and cuts out some of the talk and news, if that matters.


    sda said:



    I would have thought that if it was a MB at a MB dealer, the sticker would be generated by the VIN, thus an accurate description of standard and optional equipment.

    My luck, I only listen to the news, old time radio, and sports, etc.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,029
    edited November 2015
    roadburner -

    I was looking at both of these options, starting late last Fall.
    FWIW - one reason I chose the ‘regular’ R/T :
    Final drive gear ratio: R/T = 2.64 vs. 3.07 R/T Road & Track
    R&T = 16% more TQ multiplication.
    My experience has been that, even on dry roads, and starting in the automatic’s second gear – it is VERY easy to spin the standard Firestones.
    For me, the lower RPM at cruise was a greater advantage than the additional TQ multiplication of the 3.07.
    - Ray
    Very pleased with the choice . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,909
    edited November 2015
    Michaell said:

    suydam said:

    Yes, there is, but you lose the sports stations.

    My latest renewal for the Elantra was for the "Mostly Music" package .. I miss the NFL channel on Sundays when I am delivering.
    carnaught said:

    Went through the "song and dance" routine with talking to the cancellation dept. just before my time was up. Instead of them offering, or agreeing to my request for the promotional rate, they just said no. She did say to "check our offers to you on-line". I used this link: https://care.siriusxm.com/winback_view.action?plans=sir_aud_evt,promo - select - 5mo - 19.99 - (5for20)&utm_source=sem_Google&utm_campaign=SEM_Google_Search_Brand_Alpha_General&utm_medium=sem_ and got a great deal, 6 mos. for under $30 including tax and fees.

    Thanks everyone. Just reactivated at $19.00 for 5 months on each car. Same stations as before. Saves me enough to continue my Edmunds dues. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,360
    Understood. Me, I'd have to have all the additional go-fast goodies, as sooner or later I'd have to take it to an HPDE...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 3,029
    And if I could afford to immediately put Michelin Pilots on the R/T,
    that MIGHT have changed my decision regarding the R&T ...
    2016 BMW 340i
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,360
    edited November 2015
    I won a set of Pilot Super Sports and stuck them on the MS3. They have an incredible amount of both wet and dry grip. So much, in fact, that I always run out of nerve/courage/cojones long before I run out of stick.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 136,742
    I also have PSS. Fantastic tires... but, I notice they are wearing out fast (not the tire's fault, I don't think).

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    Edmunds Moderator

  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    edited November 2015

    I wasn't referring to a reading list. I was talking about driving an actual car . Anyway, a .7 skidpad result isn't very impressive, and Road and Track's 1971 Road Test says quite plainly "it doesn't have bundles of cornering power" and "there's a distinct bobbing motion to the ride". They also mention that they've had "considerable feedback" from owners of earlier 2500 and 2800 cars about mechanical problems.

    Let's just agree to disagree on the Bavaria.




    As for handling, a number of contemporary auto mags mention it, (or lack of it) so I think I remember that part okay at least.

    We must not have the same reading list.

    BMW's power steering is light and quick but disappointingly lacking in feel. ...Otherwise the car's handling is exemplary.
    BMW 2500 Road Test, Road & Track May 1969

    Handling is best described as typically BMW, only better.
    BMW 2500 Road Test, Autocar May 28, 1969

    ...if your existence is made joyful by precision devices and you wish to drive every inch of your journeys, than the BMW 2500 is the answer.
    Pat Bedard, Car and Driver June 1969

    In on-the-road handling the Bavaria is delightful, though with 175-14 tires it doesn't have bundles of cornering power.
    BMW Bavaria Road Test, Road and Track August 1971

    Once accustomed to the steering-some drivers didn't like it at first-the car feels quite sporting and agile for a large saloon. Even with only a single anti-roll bar at the front the car corners hard with little body roll.
    BMW 3.0S Road Test, Motor March 25, 1972
    Actually, just to chime in, a '72 3.0S is the only BMW I've ever driven. I was stationed in Germany and a friend needed me to drive it to the shop, about 20 miles. That car certainly had no handling problems. It was firm in the turns, and felt totally controlled (I took the curvy back road to my destination). I still remember that short drive. Fondly.
  • au1994au1994 GAPosts: 1,638
    kyfdx said:

    I also have PSS. Fantastic tires... but, I notice they are wearing out fast (not the tire's fault, I don't think).

    I want those for the ZHP but fear the wear factor as well. That car is fun to sling around on the Kumho's. Can't imagine it with PSS.

    2019 Subaru Crosstrek Limited Venetian Red over Black
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,241
    of course they wear out quick. Ain't no free lunch. Where do you think the fantastic stick comes from?

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • breldbreld Posts: 4,616
    nyccarguy said:

    I get his "spread the miles around" logic completely.  @qbrozen is smart.  He knows it's not "cheaper" to buy a 2nd car for him & his wife to drive.  It does give them each a chance to drive something different.  When you drive more than average like we do it gets frustrating at trade in time to hear that your car is "in perfect shape," but the miles "kill it."

    For instance, my wife drives her pilot out of necessity. I know she doesn't LOVE it.  Given the choice, she'd much rather drive a sedan or a smaller car around town. We have 3 kids and live in New England, hence the SUV & 4WD.  Our Pilot is almost paid off.  I don't want to buy another $40K SUV.  Now if one of these days I can find her a smokin lease deal on a MINI Cooper S for less than $250 per month would I jump on it?  Yes.  She's got a 5 mile commute round trip.  So if I lease her a car for 10K per year, drive her Pilot 1 week a month I instead of my Legacy, that would save me about 5 k miles per year on the Subie.  15K per year is a lot easier pill to swallow than 20K per year.

    is the Subaru going to be worth $9K more ($250 x 36)?  No.  

    Yup - I like the approach as well. With our long work commutes, my wife and I each drive around 25k miles a year or so. I end up spreading my miles over my primary driver (currently the S4) and the minivan, out of necessity. For her, she may drive the ZHP convertible once in awhile, but most of her miles are on her primary vehicle, the S3.

    We're discussing trading out the ZHP for something more practical to be a year-round secondary driver for her, but the problems are 1) hard to find something around the same price as the ZHP, as nice as the ZHP, even if it is more practical and 2) my wife doesn't necessarily like switching between two cars.

    We'll see - if we get more serious, I'll start posting the potential candidates.

    2019 Volvo V90 XC - 2019 VW Alltrack - 2018 VW GTI

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,253
    breld said:

    We'll see - if we get more serious, I'll start posting the potential candidates.

    Here it comes!!! :p

    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 136,742
    au1994 said:

    kyfdx said:

    I also have PSS. Fantastic tires... but, I notice they are wearing out fast (not the tire's fault, I don't think).

    I want those for the ZHP but fear the wear factor as well. That car is fun to sling around on the Kumho's. Can't imagine it with PSS.
    Move up here where it snows.. They last twice as long. ;)

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    Edmunds Moderator

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 136,742
    On another note...

    The four saddest words in the English language:

    Our taps are down

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    Edmunds Moderator

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,360
    kyfdx said:

    On another note...

    The four saddest words in the English language:

    Our taps are down

    That's when my volunteer spirit kicks in and I help move kegs or whatever it takes ;)

    Edmunds Moderator

    Silver 2012 Nissan Versa Hatchback & White 2019 Nissan Rogue S

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 136,742
    PF_Flyer said:

    kyfdx said:

    On another note...

    The four saddest words in the English language:

    Our taps are down

    That's when my volunteer spirit kicks in and I help move kegs or whatever it takes ;)
    Sadly, it was a refrigeration problem. :(

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,360
    Refrigerators on the way!! ;)

    Edmunds Moderator

    Silver 2012 Nissan Versa Hatchback & White 2019 Nissan Rogue S

    Need some roadside assistance? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Just purchased or leased a vehicle? Write your own vehicle review

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    “You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but in the very least you need a beer.”
    ― Frank Zappa

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Now there is a very interesting and multi talented musician many have probably not heard of. Wasn't one of his kids named Moon Unit or something like that?
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    that explains the gold trim on most Lexuses and spoilers/pinstripes on a lot of Hondas in the 1990s

    Corvette, sure you aren't talking about those Florida retirement area Lincoln and Toyota local option packages? Don't forget the vinyl top too B)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,241
    Dweezel and Moon Unit. Probably the only kids in their class with those particular names.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,241
    so, I have decided this is a good deal, and I really want this car. Not that I will buy it, but might tease NYC a bit!

    http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-infiniti-g37_sedan-4dr_x_awd-used-14379576.html

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,618
    edited December 2015
    berri said:
    that explains the gold trim on most Lexuses and spoilers/pinstripes on a lot of Hondas in the 1990s Corvette, sure you aren't talking about those Florida retirement area Lincoln and Toyota local option packages? Don't forget the vinyl top too B)
    When I sold cars at Lexus down here in the early 2000's, vinyl roofs were already out, but "gold packages" we're very popular.  Then, when I managed the Infiniti store, pinstripes were the most popular add-on along with plastic door-edge guards.  We added both add-ons to every car except in those cases where the customer did not want them.

    At Lexus, we had a guy who hand-painted all the pinstripes - he was a true artist.  The customer would select the color and style from a catalog we had.

    Every so often down here in South Florida, you can still see new cars with vinyl roofs and those white and gold sidewall Vogue Tires.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Variety is the spice in life !
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 129,712
    stickguy said:

    so, I have decided this is a good deal, and I really want this car. Not that I will buy it, but might tease NYC a bit!

    http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-infiniti-g37_sedan-4dr_x_awd-used-14379576.html

    You're killing me with that post, stick!

    Nice car at a nice price.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,578
    edited December 2015
    You are evil @stickguy - nice car. Nice price. What's the deal with this place? They always list cheap & don haggle?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 129,712
    nyccarguy said:

    You are evil @stickguy - nice car. Nice price. What's the deal with this place? They always list cheap & don haggle?

    At least you're closer ...

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,578
    @Michaell - it's got less miles on it than my Legacy

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,909
    nyccarguy said:

    @Michaell - it's got less miles on it than my Legacy

    I bet it has "already been sold but we have others just as good for a few thousand more".

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,578
    I'd be afraid to go and test drive it.  Is it possible to walk into a dealership with a 175 horsepower 4 cyl car, test drive one with 151 MORE horsepower, and walk out without punching Ye Old CCBA card?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 129,712
    nyccarguy said:

    I'd be afraid to go and test drive it.  Is it possible to walk into a dealership with a 175 horsepower 4 cyl car, test drive one with 151 MORE horsepower, and walk out without punching Ye Old CCBA card?

    I hear you. I think I'm going to restrict my test drives next year to stuff that's woefully underpowered, since that's all I really need.

    Drove my daughter's MINI last night (all 4 tires needed air) - maybe I'm getting older, but that thing rides rough, and it's pretty noisy. Fast, though.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • jpp75jpp75 DenverPosts: 1,416
    nyccarguy said:

    I'd be afraid to go and test drive it.  Is it possible to walk into a dealership with a 175 horsepower 4 cyl car, test drive one with 151 MORE horsepower, and walk out without punching Ye Old CCBA card?

    That G37x is a great deal on a great car. If I had it to do over again I'd have kept my G37x over the Q50.

    It can't hurt to go drive it. :)
  • jpp75jpp75 DenverPosts: 1,416
    stickguy said:

    so, I have decided this is a good deal, and I really want this car. Not that I will buy it, but might tease NYC a bit!

    http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-infiniti-g37_sedan-4dr_x_awd-used-14379576.html

    I'm still looking at the GS350 they have posted, a lot of car for the money it seems.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,241
    I love that Lexus. Just not in market now. The Infiniti would be an OK consolation prize!

    I drove right past the place this morning but did not stop. Far as I know they are fine. Excellent reviews, and been there a long time. Very friendly and low key the few times I stopped in. Cars all look pristine. Even kept inside. Probably low overhead, and they sell quick, often gone before pictures are up. They sell on eBay too and ship all over.

    Hey, if you really want, I'm happy to stop and test drive for you!

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,407
    nyccarguy said:
    You are evil @stickguy - nice car. Nice price. What's the deal with this place? They always list cheap & don haggle?

    Maybe they only buy the dogs? For example, a clean one like that brought over $23k at the block in NJ. One in poor condition in Nashville only got $18k.

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Deos the Mini have run flat tires on it? If so, you can ditch those and get a more flexible sidewall tire. It transforms the Mini's ride from "punishing" to " annoying".
    Michaell said:

    nyccarguy said:

    I'd be afraid to go and test drive it.  Is it possible to walk into a dealership with a 175 horsepower 4 cyl car, test drive one with 151 MORE horsepower, and walk out without punching Ye Old CCBA card?

    I hear you. I think I'm going to restrict my test drives next year to stuff that's woefully underpowered, since that's all I really need.

    Drove my daughter's MINI last night (all 4 tires needed air) - maybe I'm getting older, but that thing rides rough, and it's pretty noisy. Fast, though.
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