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Waxes and Polishes, Part II
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Comments
orange606
If you get back here, I did buy the Gold Mcguires,
and it looks great. Thanks...
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We try not to disparage car care products made by other wax companies.
In many cases, these companies have tried very hard to establish
themselves in particular market niches. Additionally, every product
will produce different results. You should compare the results among
paste waxes and between liquid wax and paste wax. If you are concerned
about damaging your painted surface, please be aware that regardless of
marketing claims, a polish is an abrasive. We do not use any abrasives
in our wax.
We have developed a formula that easily and regularly produces a deep
warm glow. The traditional "wet look" that so many companies tout can
be as easily produced with a liberal coat of petroleum jelly as it is
with their products. Other companies highlight that their products have
long lasting protection (these products can also produce a dangerous
adhesive bond with your paint). SurLuster has been designing,
manufacturing, and distributing car wax for over 50 years. We private
label products for many other wax companies and for car companies. We
are very familiar with these formulas (you may have already used
SurLuster without knowing it) and their claims. When we developed our
in-house line, we decided to eliminate any compromises. Products apply
easily, buff easily and develop a deep, even gloss. Our wax is very
durable, but will release easily with an application of pre-wax
cleaner. The proof is in the products. If you are not satisfied,
return the product and we'll refund your purchase price. Our goal,
however, is to have you as a long-term satisfied customer.
Put a message at the previous frozen forum and link them here... or some message to inform them where to go to now...
As it is, this place is a ghost town....
"I thought I had, but I'll try again. I noticed
1001 responses in Topic 8, but an end at topic
1000. I really hope that there isn't a glitch
here."
There's no glitch. The messages start with "0". While there were 1,000 messages shown, it was really 1,001 because of the "0" starting point. Your message in the old topic is listed as 1,001, but in reality, if you look at the top where it tells you how many messages there are, it says 1,002.
fastdriver
Well I am not having too much lucking finding an oxidation remover. Can anybody here point me towards some thing?
georgede,
I used to use Maguire's gold class before I bought Zaino. Meguires is good, but the Zaino stuff will last longer, and be little more reflective.
1) Can I clay in direct sunlight? I got 8oz clay and 16oz lube, how much should I expect to use per application?
2) Can I Zanio (Z1, Z2) in direct sunlight? Again, I know I have to use it very sparingly, any good tips to do so?
2b) How much Z7/gallon water to wash?
2c) Should I use Z7 wash before the first application of Z1,Z2? Or stick to dawn or turtle wax car wash?
3) I have a ton of little brown spots (acid rain, tree sap, or something) all over the finish. I have been buffing them out by hand with Meguires #2 polish. This is very time consuming (30 mins for just the trunk). Should I continue the #2, or use Step #1 cleaner before I clay or just clay?
4) My car sits outside 24/7, is it safe to clay on a hot Saturday and let the car sit overnight before washing it and applying Zanio on Sunday? Or does the lube need washed off right away?
Thanks in advance and keep the good advise coming!
What ever happened to Chris Parrish?
I also found a good way to apply the Z-16. I took a damp sponge, and appled a generous amount of z-16 to it. I then wiped the tire down. I let it dry, then appled another coat, but wiped it off this time. I repeat that step once leaving some dry time after each wiping. Then I appled a final coat of Z-16, and let it just dry. It really looks nice.
I will be getting some Tire Treat soon, and I will add that to the procedure above. The tire treat should improve the finish, and help the tire stay good looking longer. I will post results as soon as I have them.
"What ever happened to Chris Parrish?"
It got a little crowded in here with someone who knew what he was talking about and someone with an ulterior motive who had a comment about everyone and everything that was said. WHO needs that crap? Chris chose to move on to other forums.
I wish he would come back, but I don't think that will happen.
fastdriver
You may also find the 3M products at a NAPA auto store. They usually have an excellent selection and will order what they don't have.
I am a pleased user of Zaino, but am constantly looking for better ones...
Hence, I would like to hear the views from the experts here, or the people who have used Surluster, and/or Zaino.
Thanks.
Thanks, Tim
you asked for comments. As we have talked about before, the traditional polishes have abrasives, but they don't HAVE to have abrasives. Zaino calls their product a polish, and they have the right to do so, people should just know that most "polishes" DO contain abrasives and so do some Waxes. You always have to read the label or do some research.
Don M.
I've posted a couple of requests on different boards and have had no reponse. I'm going to try alt.auto.merscedes because I found out about in MCA's Star magazine and if I get nothing there either I'm going to roll the dice and order some. I'll post the results.
Thaks Waddles
I too had some concerns about Zaino and its long term effects. Sal called me about these concerns and told me that his products have been in use since 1989 with no problems. Some companies feel that using plastics/polymers will cause paint to spider or crack. Sal said this is not a problem with his products.
On cleaning a car for the first time prior to Zaino: Please read the past postings about recommended methods. In summary: Use Dawn (once only) to remove the original wax from the clearcoat and then apply the Zaino polymer loc (Z1). The list of stuff available for interior cleaning is endless. And I don't know enough yet to make an absolute set of recommendations.
It's best to hand wash using a gentle wash. Most "car wash" products are OK, but they sometimes go the wrong direction and don't get the dirt off, and no matter what any bottle says, it's not really possible to wash AND wax at the same time. I have used Liquid Ivory on drivers and expensive show cars for decades and it won't ever harm your paint, it won't even take off all your wax. Know that ANY washing process will remove some of your wax. That is the way things are supposed to work. Wax should give itself up instead of the paint!
I prefer a synthetic chamois to real chamois for drying.
If your new car has managed to get out of the dealership without swirls and minor scratches (most dealerships employ people that do more harm before the cars are sold than most owners will do in years of use!) you can just apply a good non-abrasive wax. I like high quality Carnauba waxes.
If you car does have some swirls, you should use a very mild abrasive polish. Some products say they are "clearcoat" safe, which should mean they have little or no abrasive. This is really a poor term since clearcoat is just paint and any product that will make regular non-clearcoat paint have a high gloss will also work on clearcoat. What you want to stay away from is anything agressive. It can wear through clearcoat or regular paint.
Plan on waxing your car more than once a year, Twice a year should be minimum depending on your climate, miles driven and if the car is parked outside a lot. If the finish looses it's slick feel, it's time for more wax!
Meguiars makes good products that are available at most stores. Read the labels and remember to go easy with pressure and go easy with product. Less is better with most waxes and/or polishes.
Inside the car, Lexol is best for leather and another product by Lexol called Vinylex is great for all the vinyl. Follow the instructions on the bottles. For carpet/cloth seats, a product called Blue Coral Dri-Clean works really good. Don't use buckets of soapy water on carpets or seats, it just invites mold/mildew and drives smells in deeper. spray the Blue Coral on the surface and work it in with your fingertips. Don't use a brush, it can tear fibers. Dry with a fluffy bath towel. Be sure to vac the area before and after.
Don M.
What is the best product for a new dashboard?? I
noticed Armour All is not well liked here. What
is the alternative?? Thanks...
I buy the large synthetic sponges at my local grocery store. NOT the type that have all the tiny holes, and NOT real sponge. This type looks somewhat like real sponge with larger irregular holes, but it is rectangular, and about 2" thick by maybe 8" long and 5" wide.
Cut it in half to make a hand/palm sized sponge. Put just a little wax or polish towards the center of the side you are using (you can use the edges for small areas) and let the sponge do the work. It will work in the product better than any cotton pad/cloth, will prevent "finger" marks better than a thin sponge/cloth and last a long time. It also doesn't soak up all your wax like most applicator pads that are designed to make you use more of the product!
When it starts shedding, just toss and use another. I buy them for well under $3 for the big one, so it's closer to $1 per pad when cut in half.
Be sure to rinse the sponge out, they use some chemical to keep it from drying out that should be rinsed before use. Keep it rinsed and damp when using it. Let it air dry (it will shink and look bad) Put it back in a bucket of clean water a minute or two before you need it again.
Don M.
interested in waxing and trying to take care of my
paint job. However, I have read a lot of good
things about both Zymol and Zaino. What do you all recommend? Also, I have never waxed my car before so what would I have to do to "prep" my car when I decide to use either of the two products I end up buying (I have read about "claying" but don't know much about it)?
Thanks.
Lee
There is no way that I can change this. There is a pointer/link in that topic to this topic. Feel free to click on Topic 8 and to click on the link to this topic posted in that topic. I could unfreeze Topic 8, but that would discourage people from going back and reading what had been written in the previous 1000 responses in that topic. It seems to me that Topic 8 had reached a sort of critical mass.
The Topic 8 discussion had become less lively, as people posted things like "I don't have time to go back and read what's been written so far, but what sort of towel should I use to wax my car?" It's not so much that the question was asked, but that person posting the item found the topic so burdensome as a read, that they either glossed over everything, or skipped it entirely.
On Meguiar's clay, I haven't personally used it. However, "oldtimers" for this topic will remember posts from Chris Parrish (aka "detailfreak"). Chris seems very knowledgeable. His opinion was that Meguiars clay tended to leave streaks. He recommended Clay Magic or Erazure.
On Zaino vs. Zymol, I also haven't personally used Zymol. One poster some time back, however, said that the Zymol paste is good, but the liquid isn't. He said the liquid was actually made by a different company and sold under the Zymol name. I don't know if this is true or not.
Seems like no matter what wax or polymer product you use (Meguiars, Zaino, Zymol, etc.) you should do the same good prep. It's the same concept as painting your house. It doesn't matter how good or bad the paint is you use. If you don't prep the surface (i.e., leave dirt and flaking paint on it), your results won't be as good as if you do a good prep job.
On whether Meguiars is as good as Zaino, there was a long debate on that. Go back and read previous posts and see what you think. Or just try both products and make up your own mind.
There are four steps to caring for the paint exterior: Wash, Clean, Polish, and Protect.
WASH - The seemingly most simple sounding is the most important. While most any wash from the auto store would probably do, I prefer the synthetics as they don't smear. My favorites are Sonax Gloss Shampoo from Larry Reynolds at www.carcareonline.com, Finish First car shampoo from www.liqui-tech.com, and Zaino carwash from Sal Zaino at www.zainobros.com.
The key is to use lots of water. I rinse the car twice before washing since any adherent surface dirt will scratch the finish. I don't use a sponge since it can trap a dirt particle and scratch the finish. I use either a wool mitt from Griot's Garage at www.griotsgarage.com or a 100% cotton Cannon or Fieldcrest made in the USA terry cloth towel where the little fingers of material lift and trap the dirt away from the finish. You then rinse well and dry with 100% Cotton towels.
The other parts will follow in separate posts.
CLEAN - Now that the surface has been washed it should be cleaned. This is where the clay comes in. It acts to remove surface contamination that is on the exterior or stuck in the finish. It doesn't fill in scratches, plug paint chips, or any of the other things mentioned elesewhere. To prevent it from damaging the finish you use a lubricant such as a detailing spray or soapy water.
Think of it as shaving. The lubricant is the shaving cream which protects the surface and the clay is the razor. I prefer to use a detailing spray because the result will really shine. The only clay I use is the yellow clay from Griot's Garage at www.griotsgarage.com. There are other clay products but be aware that clay comes in different levels of abrasiveness so know what you are buying.
You simply spray the lubricant on a clean cool surface and rub a small piece of clay shaped into a hamburger patty in a back and forth direction gently across the finish until it feels completely smooth. Buff with a towel and be amazed by your work. Fold the clay over so the outside with the contaminants is now on the inside and move on to another section. The whole process takes only 15 to 20 minutes.
At this point you can polish or use an additional cleaner. If you aren't going to polish try P21S Paint Cleanser from Larry Reynolds www.carcareonline.com or from Autopia Car Care. Now you polish.
POLISH - Now that the surface has been washed and cleaned it is time to polish the surface to make it shine. Whatever your paint looks like after this step will then be protected by the wax or sealer.
New cars have a clear coat system which means there is clear paint on top of colored or pigmented paint. You will be working on the clear coat to remove surface oxidation, scratches, etc. Some pros consider this just a part of the cleaning process.
You can use a polish or a glaze. Classically a polish cleans using chemical agents to lessen the peaks and valleys of swirl marks, reduce scratches, etc. Glazes use very fine physical abrasives to help smooth the finish.
There are many on the market. I prefer 3M Imperial Hand Glaze available from NAPA stores, auto paint stores, or www.carcareonline.com. Others like Meguiar's Showcar Glaze or One Grand's Omega Glaze. Griot's Garage also carries a series of Polishes in different levels of abrasiveness. Take your time.
PROTECT - Now that it's washed, cleaned, and shining you want to protect the shine. You can use either a wax or a sealant.
Waxes are carnauba products. Polymer sealants seal the finish and bond to the paint.
Good wax products include Blitz Wax from One Grand Products (the easiest paste wax I have ever used), P21S which is a mix of carnauba and beeswax, Best of Show by Griot's Garage.
Good polymer sealants include Finish First, Klasse, Zaino as well as Meguiar's Medallion wax and Eagle One. Waxes last 3 to 4 months. Polymer sealants last 6 to 8 months.
Some free advice - you don't have to do the whole car at once. You can do the horizontal surfaces (roof, hood, and trunk) this week and do the sides next week. This will reduce the fatigue factor so you won't spend eight hours and say "Never again".
Good luck.
To all new posters, there is welth of knowledge in these detailing forums. Probably around 2000 posts worth. I would first do a serch, and see if you can find what you are looking for.
I think some one, maby edmunds should make a FAQ that contains all the great tips that have been presented on this site. although, we all ready have a great Zaino faq that that detailfreak created long ago. I think some one posted the link just a week ago.
I will soon be posting my results of useing shoe polish to restore black trim.
After further thought I added a fifth category - Maintain.
MAINTAIN - This is what you do between weekly washes and involves the use of detailing sprays and car dusters. This allows you to keep the car shining between washes. Some swear by the Original California Car Duster. Its wax impregnated fibers are GENTLY and LIGHTLY drawn over the surface, removing dust along the way. Personally, I worry about scratching the finish but the diehard users say it works great.
Instead of a duster I use detail spray and a 100% cotton towel GENTLY and LIGHTLY drawn over the surface. I make one or two passes with the towel which draws the dirt up into the loops. I then take a second towel to LIGHTLY buff out the finish until it shines.
There are many different brands. I like Speed Shine by Griot's Garage, Show Off by One Grand Products, and Z-6 by Zaino. Since I use a lot of it, I buy it in bulk by the gallon. Zaino is sold only by the pint and not in bulk. If it were sold without the sprayers this would save money (afterall, does anyone buying a dozen bottles really need 12 sprayers?).
Detailing takes only about 10 minutes or less to do the whole car and can increase the time between washes while allowing your car to look good all the while.
Good luck.
Hope this helps.
fastdriver
Also, my last experience with metallic paint was a 1975 car that oxidized clear through the primer in the first 3 years (in spite of faithful care). Most light colors seem to be metallic now. Have these really improved? Can they survive 350 days of sunshine a year? Special care? I'm tired of white.
Same question about red. Always wanted a cool red sports car, but spent too many hours on the 1967 red mustang. Has this also improved with time?
Paints have gotten better.
Clearcoats seem to do better than many of their ancestors. Unfortunately, all still require work to maintain that shine. Black, dark blue, red, silver, and metallics seem more prone to oxidation than their counterparts so diligence is required but the end result is worth it.
I would still give resurrecting your car a try. Given the age of the car, polishing will be the important step. It is better to slowly polish it - stopping every now and then to check to see if the finish is where you want it - than to jump in and polish like a whirling dervish. Overpolishing removes paint unnecessarily and does not improve the shine or luster.
Do a little. Stop. Evaluate what you have done. If you are happy then move on to the next section. If not, then continue on a little more. Stop and reevaluate. And so on. You can always do more but you can't undo any damage from overdoing it.
Your paint is very thin. Thickness varies from car to car. Many cars have a total paint thickness of 4 to 5 mils that includes the primer or undercoat, the base coat, and the clearcoat. A mil is one thousandth of an inch (0.001 inches).
Good luck.
(black) that will keep a good shine, protect
it and not get any "wash down" on the body
when it rains? Thanks
The goal of all exterior paint work is to achieve as much gloss as possible. Gloss is the ability of paint to reflect light. Darker colors are more dramatic than lighter colors. A black car with a great shine will look like a mirror. A smooth surface reflects light better. Defects in the paint can cause the light to be absorbed or scattered, reducing the light reflection, and thus the gloss.
When you wash, clean, polish, protect, and maintain your finish you are maximizing its ability to reflect light and thus are increasing its gloss. For paint defects you can remove them, fill them in, or conceal them.
Paint defects include many things such as dirt and contamination on or stuck in the paint, oxidation, swirl marks, scratches, stains, problems in the paint, etc. Washing removes surface dirt. Clay removes contamination stuck on or in the surface. Polishing can remove the oxidation, stains, and light scratches. Deeper scratches and paint chips must be filled (repaired with paint). The rule of thumb is if you run your thumbnail over the scratch and it clicks or sticks, fill it. If your nail can't feel it then polish it.
Since polish removes paint you may only be able to remove some of the scratch because to remove it all would take off too much paint. This is why waxes have "fillers" which are often oils and the like to fill in these minor surfaces defects. Bird droppings, tree sap,and bug remains can all etch and stain the paint if not removed quickly. Once damaged you may only be able to minimize the damage so prompt removal is important.
Good luck.
#48 - clay before polish?
Claying the finish helps to clean it further before polishing it. So, yes, please clay it. Many places carry clay such as auto stores, NAPA stores, www.erazure.com, www.griotsgarage.com, etc. I use the yellow clay from Griot's Garage. Others like erazure and clay magic.
polish or glaze?
There are many excellent products available in both polishes and in glazes. I use 3M Imperial Hand Glaze available at NAPA stores or on the internet (see earlier posts). I assume you aren't using an electric polisher/buffer. If you are, 3M makes a Foam Pad Polish.
By the way, you don't let the 3M Imperial Hand Glaze dry. You use a cloth or cotton applicator to apply it back and forth. Rub a little. Wipe off. If happy, move on. If not then reapply and wipe some more. And so on. Let the product do the work.
Other polishes/cleaners/glazes include Meguiar's Gold Class, the Wax Shop's Safe Cut, Griot's Garage polishes, etc. It's more a question of how you use it than what you use.
Once polished you need only repolish your car once or twice a year.
Good luck.