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SNOW TIRES
igloomaster
Member Posts: 249
First question: I only have 2 snow tires right
now, mounted on rims I pulled out of the junk yard.
Will that be enough if I put those on the drive
wheels this winter? Most tire places encourage
folks to go with a set of 4, but I assume that is
for their own financial reasons.
Second question: Studded or not? I have used
studded snows in the past and thought they made a
big difference. Now everyone raves about this
studless Blizzak tire from Bridgestone. What's the
consensus?
now, mounted on rims I pulled out of the junk yard.
Will that be enough if I put those on the drive
wheels this winter? Most tire places encourage
folks to go with a set of 4, but I assume that is
for their own financial reasons.
Second question: Studded or not? I have used
studded snows in the past and thought they made a
big difference. Now everyone raves about this
studless Blizzak tire from Bridgestone. What's the
consensus?
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Comments
Front wheel: need 4
4-wheel, or other special configurations: 4
Which configuration do you have?
Blizzaks are great on dad's '88 Lincoln, they stick to ice just great! I do believe you need 4 of these special tires for any car
guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
Ford Ranger, rear drive
new Honda Hatch, front drive
What is the need for 4 on front drive? I figured putting them on the front would be enough since that's both drive and steering.
I noticed great traction from the studded Coopers that I have on the Ranger, but wished I had them on front too, due to the fact that I noticed some sloppy steering in the snow and slush.
Thanks
If you only travel upstate occasionally, then you need to make a judgement call here on what you are willing to spend on a Snow Tire, since it can get crazy.
If you stay in Washington DC MOST of the time, I wouldn't go for a "studded" snow tire, since you may not see much snow at all, and the metal studs give you a noisy ride on dry pavement. The Bridgestone Blizzak is supposed to be a GREAT studless snow tire, but it is also MUCH more expensive than the others. I would just go with an average, mid-priced snow tire. Maybe go with a Firestone Winterfire, or a Goodyear Ultra Grip.
I've found a great website for info on ALL tires:
www.tirerack.com.
Bottom line: don't go crazy spending lots of cash on expensive snow tires, when a mid-priced tire might do you fine (especially in the DC area!).
However, If you ARE in fact going to upstate NY a lot, then you might want to go with a Blizzak.
Price difference for MY car: Blizzaks are $62 each, Winterfires are $42 each.
Anyway, check out The Tire Rack - check out the website, and give them a call. They do wheel/tire packages, they have answers to questions, and the prices are right on.
I ran the Goodyear Ultra Grip Studdies last winter on my little white rally car (now sold). Worked absolutely great, but I live at 7,000 feet in Arizona and we get lots of ice because of our 30 to 40 degree daily temperature swings. In mostly snow country, I would not necessarily buy studded tires.
If price is a great concern, I think that is fine for this purchase. Last time I got snow tires, I told the tire dealer, "Give me your cheapest tire, with the most aggressive tread." He sold me a no-name tire, with a tread I could almost fit my hand in, and he said the tire was very similar to a major brand's tire.
guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
just curious.
also - was that tire 'studdable' ?
guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
help. need to buy some next week.
Could people please tell me the bad parts of studded tires, as I have never used them. Do they hurt concrete/asphalt driveways? Isn't their use restricted over certain months?
guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
To me, my safety is very important when driving in all types of icy conditions. Have never been stopped for illegal studded tires.
Speeding is illegal in CA isn't it? Better not speed!
I've heard about the wear problems with Blizzaks and if I got 2 winters out them I'd be fine with that but I drive about 8-9 thousand miles a winter in New England and that seems to add up to 3 sets a winter.
Thanks for any advise.
where do you live? what are the winters like? is it a lot of snow on a constant basis (blizzaks). is it a lot of dry weather highway driving, with primarily ice/sleet storms (alpins). there's a lot of variables to consider.
My ongoing debate, is whether or not you really need 4 snows in the winter if you have a front wheel drive car. It seems to me that you wouldn't need 4, so long as your snows are mounted on the front. Anyone have anything to add to that?
please enlighten me!
My Blizzaks lasted 5 seasons, and I will replace them this winter. I drive about 12,000 miles a year.
The November issue of Consumer reports has a test of snow tires. Havn't seen it yet.
I'll stick with Firestone Winterfire, studded, from The Tire Rack.
...and....thanks; I'll go for 4 studdies this year!
Blizzaks aren't the tires to have here...they are designed for driving on snow packed roads full time...so unless you want 2 winters or less out of them in NE, a less ice-oriented tire is the way to go. I found Goodyear Ultra Grip (the Eagles, not the ice version) are excellent in the snow and the dry...and you can get an easy 3 seasons out of them. Since I have a sports car, I also didn't want to give up 50% of my handling on dry roads, which you give up with an ice tire. The Goodyear's are very low noise, and offer commendable cornering for a snow tire.
Snow tires at all four corners are the only way to go for all cars. It's not just about traction, it's about braking, too. Four snows dramatically reduce braking distances on snowy surfaces.
My $.02 -Brian
Yes, eventually, those trucks get to the highway roads and clear them off. But what about all of those streets around town where snow and ice get pressed down onto the pavement and freeze, because the plows don't get there in time. There have been many storms where I have been SO thankful for studded snows - at least just to get me out of the town's poorly paved roads and onto the drier highway.
I can appreciate your affinity for the Goodyear Ultra Grip! I had them on my Honda once, and thought they were excellent. However, that was years ago, when they were less expensive. I just called Goodyear in Boston, and they want $95 per tire. No way. I can't find Ultra Grips anywhere else besides Goodyear places, and they are too expensive. Firestone Winterfire averages about $60 per tire, as well as Dunlops, Michelens, Coopers, etc. No reason to charge that much for UltraGrips.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has had any first-hand experience with either of these tires. Is there much of a handling difference in cornering with Blizzaks versus typical all-season tires? How has the Pirellis performed in the ice and snow in terms of turning, braking and acceleration? Any input would be appreciated.
These tires are not unsafe on dry roads, but are not as good as all seasons. (my summer tires were Pirelli P600s - horrible on snow)
Last year Consumer Reports tested snow tires and rated the Michlin XM+S Alpin #1 because it had very good handling on dry roads, but it was not quite as good on the ice as the Blizzaks and some others. The Pirelli finished mid pack with the worst snow traction and dry handling almost as good as the Michlin.
Now Michlin has a new tire the Artic Alpin, which Consuer reports just rated (look at the November 99 issue) as handling almost as well as the XM+S Alpin, but with much better ice and snow traction - even better than the Blizzak. I have purchased some of these and will see if this is the case.
The biggest problem with the Blizzaks is that they wear extremely fast, and only have the sticky rubber on the first 55% of the tread. They lasted 5 winters on one car (10-12k per year) of mine but only two on another (18-20k per year).
The Tire Rack and Discount Tire Direct both sell these tires at a reasonable price.
Discount Tire Direct no longer carries Blizzaks because they said they had too many complaints about rapid wear.
is the weight of your vehicle. Here are my 2 cents:
My Ford Ranger 2WD Pickup truck handles better in the snow and ice than my Honda Civic.
The Honda Civic is a hatchback, with front wheel drive. It is an extremely light vehicle. Traction can only be improved 1 way: with snow tires. The weight of the vehicle remains the same - LIGHT. It's easy to spin wheels and slide around.
The Truck has rear wheel drive. Traction and handling can be improved 2 ways: Studded, narrow [more defined contact patch] snow tires, and Sand bags in the back bed to increase the weight of the vehicle.
If you'll notice, the treads on the Michelins are not as aggressive as the other two. I even visited the Michelin web site, where it said the tread design served to limit the packing of snow between the grooves. I suppose it could provide more of a traction surface for ice, but for snow it doesn't seem to add up. I don't know what to truly think at this time.
In any case, could you clarify whether last year's CR article involved the Pirelli Winter Ice Direzionale or the more tradition snow tire, the Winter 160 Direzionale. Much appreciated.
To me the worst part of winter driving is driving on a snow packed highway with patches of ice - that is where the Alpin's should excel.
When I had my Blizzaks I would look for the deepest fresh snow I could find to see if it was possible to get stuck. I could go through some alleys where the snow was 8-10 inches deep and could still punch through 2-3 foot drifts (remember this is in an Integra). Given that level of performance I would be willing to accept a small reduction in deep snow traction in favor of better ice and packed snow traction.
Re the article in CR. The Artic Alpin was best in snow traction, and was also best in ice traction. The Pirelli was the Winter ice Assimmetrico, and it was the worst in snow traction, and one of the worst in ice traction. The Pirelli was tied with the Michlin for best dry handling. Glancing at the article will give you a lot more info than I can describe.
igloomaster:
placing thinner tires on a civic will also improve traction. Remember it is not absolute weight that matters it is weight per square inch of tire contact patch. This is why ice racers use tires with nails in them - all of the weight is concentrated on the tip of the nails resulting in a tiny contact patch. i.e. more traction without any more weight. A Corvette weighs about a thousand pounds (3,400 vs 2,400) more than a Civic - you tell me which is better in the snow. :^)
i have used thinner tires on the honda as well, and even with them and front wheel drive, it still does not handle as well as my truck with sandbags and rear wheel drive...especially when cornering.
with my ford ranger,
i don't even bother with chains. go with studded snow tires, and put some sand bags directly over the drive axle for added weight and grip. make sure your studded snows are narrower than your regular tires. it should do just fine. i feel very confident in the snow with my truck set up like that; i never have a problem (knock wood) and actually prefer rear wheel drive. makes me chuckle at all the marketing fuss regarding 4wd and AWD....for years rear wheel drive was IT in America, and folks did just fine.
i don't think you'll need chains unless you are in Alaska.
They make a couple different designs, more $$, more performance.
Dry weather handling? When we want that, we put on our summer tires. When purchasing a snow tire, the object is solely to make the car ride as safely as possible under the most adverse conditions. When the road is dry during the winter, drivers should be very careful in how hard they push their car around the turns, etc. knowing that a snow tire is not made for performance. Knowing this, why would the dry handling of a snow tire be of any concern? This is a concern when buying "all-season" tires, that do just about everything mediocre. The number one rated snow tire should be the tire that performs best in snow and ice. Unless it is dangerous under dry conditions, that aspect of its performance seems meaningless to me personally.
guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
Which would you use in a hilly, hardpack snow and ice condition with occasional deep stuff, but also knowing that New England has mostly dry road days?
Two cars to consider - a 4WD Subaru and a FWD Corolla
THANKS!!!
If you had to choose between two tires that were the same in winter conditions and one was much better in dry conditions which would you take? I can't remember the last winter where the surface of the road was always covered by snow and ice - can you?
I did not claim the Artic Alpins were as good as a summer tire and I wouldn't expect anyone would use them in the summer.
eb5
The Artic Alpins have a different rubber than the Blizzaks. The blizzaks are blown rubber like a sponge. The Artic Alpin rubber feels more conventional. My best guess would be that the Artic Alpins would last longer - but it remains a guess.
I have been able to tweak a bit of honesty from a couple of different sales associates, and the consensus is that the Blizzaks wear out fast - faster than all of them.
I drive a very good handling car, and I'm not willing to throw that away for four months out of the year. Yes, my performance snow tires aren't fabulous in the dry next to summer tires, but they outshine any other snow tire, save maybe the Pirelli 210P, on dry pavement.
Here in Massachusetts, most of the winter is on salted, dry roads. We don't usually get so much snow so the roads hold snow for more than a couple of days. Highways are probably snow/ice free here 90% of the winter. However, when it does snow, my Goodyear Ultra Eagle Snows are great. They are just less of a compromise in the dry.
-Brian
"Last year Consumer Reports tested snow tires and
rated the Michlin XM+S Alpin #1 because it had very good handling on dry roads, but it was not quite as good on the ice as the Blizzaks and some others."
This, your previous post, diametrically opposes post 44.
Given the choice between 2 tires identical on snow and ice, and one was better on dry roads...well, I'm of the opinion you cannot buy an aggressive snow tire that compares to a dry road tire. The two designs are incompatible. That is my opinion.
My previously stated opinion seems to be in the minority for sure. I simply do not understand this, and I'll ask Brian since he laid out a detailed opinion: 90% of your winter is dry roads, yet you spring for a set of snow tires, and you get one that is "less of a compromise in the dry." Why spring the money for a compromise at all, when you have them as OEM tires, namely All-Season Radials?
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
If you would prefer a tire that is the equal of the Artic Alpin in snow and ice, but not as good in dry conditions that is your choice.
Since you are concerned with ultimate snow and ice traction, I suppose one can assume that you drive a snowmobile in the winter. :^)
At least the people here are sensible enough to use snow tires in the winter. I keep having SUV's and Trucks almost rear end me because they can't stop with their standard tires. They think 4wd is all you need. To me the most important part of winter driving is stopping not starting up. Do you agree?
in my humble opinion: if you want dry road performance with the ability to handle the occasional snow flurry, then just stick with an all-season radial. why fork over the extra $?
snow tires are snow tires, period.
incidentally, snow tires will do just fine on a cold dry road, so long as you are operating the vehicle 'normally'. if you are doing anything with the vehicle that might get you pulled over by our fine law enforcement officers, then yes, you probably don't want snow tires.
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference