Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

sda · September 2016

From what I've read reviews on the Lacrosse were favorable, other than a small trunk and some rear visibility issues. Hopefully you didn't have the 2.4 4cyl. which was overburdened with too much car. What made you regret your purchase?

fintail · September 2016

Silvercar has a fleet of Audis, Sixt has some, and Hertz has some too. Or use it as an excuse for a trip to Germany, where almost every Audi can be found in fleets (along with every other non-exotic). I had an A8 rental in Germany a few years ago.

Hondas are the rarity in NA fleets - every now and then a Civic or Accord or lower Acura will pop up somewhere, but it is very uncommon.

Optima has been a fixture in fleets for years now.

andres3 said:

I like the idea, but the cars I like are not usually in rental fleets (Honda's, Audi's). The Kia was a change of pace for me as it is definitely rental material. A nice rental, but I can see it being in fleets.

stickguy · September 2016

this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

ab348 · September 2016

sda said:
From what I've read reviews on the Lacrosse were favorable, other than a small trunk and some rear visibility issues. Hopefully you didn't have the 2.4 4cyl. which was overburdened with too much car. What made you regret your purchase?

My '09 was the last year of the 1st-generation W-body Lacrosse with the pushrod 3800/4T65E transmission. Aside from the old-man car image, the only real problem it had was a chronically bad transmission that 2 dealers were never able to fix in 2 years of ownership. By that time I hated it, and I was glad to see it gone when I traded it.

qbrozen · September 2016

It is what I would expect for asking retail. Looks like it has new rubber. Those are seat covers, though, aren't they? Anyway, $5k-$6k depending on the details would be a fair range.

sda · September 2016

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

I like those, too. Are those the original or oem style seat upholstery?

tifighter · September 2016

I had one of these, 2000 2.5, basically identical bought in 2005. Aside from the usual 3-series stuff, check that the power top works well and the condition of the fabric; not cheap to replace. Back window will be creased like they all are. These eat tires so it is nice to have fresh ones. I'd still love to have a last year coupe with the 3.0 motor; let everyone else obsess over the M.

stickguy · September 2016

I have never seen those seats. QB is probably right, some kind of cover, but don't really look like slip on ones, more like an actual recovering of the seat (replacement leather).

corvette · September 2016

First gen MKZ had an interesting interior, but I hate all that silver painted plastic.

roadburner · September 2016

corvette said:
First gen MKZ had an interesting interior, but I hate all that silver painted plastic.

Yes- it looks like a 1980's vintage stereo receiver.

ab348 · September 2016

corvette said:
First gen MKZ had an interesting interior, but I hate all that silver painted plastic.

Yes, I remember once I was sitting in it, I realized that it was not as high-quality a dash as it looked in the pictures I had seen.

sda · September 2016

ab348 said:

sda said:
From what I've read reviews on the Lacrosse were favorable, other than a small trunk and some rear visibility issues. Hopefully you didn't have the 2.4 4cyl. which was overburdened with too much car. What made you regret your purchase?
My '09 was the last year of the 1st-generation W-body Lacrosse with the pushrod 3800/4T65E transmission. Aside from the old-man car image, the only real problem it had was a chronically bad transmission that 2 dealers were never able to fix in 2 years of ownership. By that time I hated it, and I was glad to see it gone when I traded it.

My bad, I was thinking of the '10 model. I imagine the Lacrosse was somewhat similar to your Intrigue, though probably rode softer and didn't handle as well. The 3800 has torque, did you miss the 3.5 shortstar? My '00 Intrigue GL (that I should not have sold so quickly) was a good runner and got decent gas mileage.

henryn · September 2016

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

That looks like a h___ of a lot of fun for $7k. I mean, seriously, just how much fun do you think you can buy for that amount of money these days?

jpp75 · September 2016

andres3 said:

jpp5862 said:

kyfdx said:
My advice: Keep the car until the 5yr/60K powertrain warranty is up, then ditch it.

If it really worries you that much, spending extra money on a warranty won't help. (except the company and salesperson you buy it from).
I've been contemplating an extended warranty on the Touareg in case I bought it at the end of the lease. I enjoy it enough to buy it at the end of the lease, until last week. I'm at 10,500 miles and recently noticed it wasn't that smooth during upshifts, especially under moderate acceleration. It felt like you were in a manual transmission car and had slowed down but didn't downshift and then tried to accelerate again and it was bogging down.

The service tech rode with me and quickly noticed it as a "transmission shudder" and said it certainly wasn't normal and would need to be repaired, maybe even replace the transmission. He explained how complex the transmissions in the Touareg were and thought it might be the stepper motors being out of sync but said they'd have to do some work to make sure. Disappointing but not completely surprising. Shame because I absolutely love the vehicle but makes it hard to feel good about buying it at lease end....
If the transmission was the only thing to go wrong in 3 years I'd still rate that as a pretty reliable experience. But that is a big IF, and I'm assuming 3 years/36K miles? Unless of course you start to hear that the transmission is a "known" issue. If that's the case, not sure about VW, but I know Audi is known to extend warranties on problematic parts to 7 years/120K miles.

The powertrain warranty is 5/60 but I'd have to read the fine print to see exactly what is covered and depending on what they find see if it would apply. My lease is for 3 yr/15k per year so I could go as high as 45k which would still be under the powertrain warranty. The tech said if the transmission needs to be replaced it's about $8k out of warranty, of course that's stealership prices. So we'll see what they find, then I have 26 months left to see how it performs and take my chances. Even though I'm a card carrying member of CCBA I like this one enough to put my membership on hold.

nyccarguy · September 2016

Let's cool it with the "membership on hold crazy talk," ok? Speaking of, this coming Tuesday will be 2 years since I've punched my card

qbrozen · September 2016

Ok, I'm trying something new. ha. Looking at the 4 areas I posted earlier, I made myself a chart and threw scores of 1-5 for each vehicle. These are just my initial numbers, and I'm not even sure about reliability. Just my initial guess barring further investigation.

Car Desire Reliability Fun CostOwnership
FX35 3 5 4 5
GLK 4 3 5 3
H3 5 5 2 4
Q5 3 2 5 3
RDX 2 5 5 5
RX350 1 5 3 5
SRX 3 4 4 3
Terrain 3 4 3 4
XC60 3 4 4 3

Sooo... I've got the RDX and FX35 in the lead, surprisingly enough, with the H3 close behind. The GLK is only a 15, although my gut was telling me it is in the lead. Huh. Maybe I have to have weighted scoring where desirability means more. Haha.

stickguy · September 2016

need to throw that in a spreadsheet, and weight the numbers, since all 4 categories can't count the same!

I actually do this kind of stuff when I am looking (will do for houses too soon, I hope!). And need to have a minimum score for each category, below which is automatic elimination.

the RDX, is that a 12 or before? Ever look at the current version? You might like it! If nothing else, fast and comfortable, besides dead reliable.

If I took your list, and worked it for me, I would eliminate the Terrain, FX35, and H3. Just don't like those. Love the S60, even if it might not be the smartest idea! The prior generation RDX does intrigue me.

I would add the X3 and X1 too.

ab348 · September 2016

sda said:

My bad, I was thinking of the '10 model. I imagine the Lacrosse was somewhat similar to your Intrigue, though probably rode softer and didn't handle as well. The 3800 has torque, did you miss the 3.5 shortstar? My '00 Intrigue GL (that I should not have sold so quickly) was a good runner and got decent gas mileage.

Yes, the Intrigue was a good car that I had for 6 years and I just loved the Shortstar. But in the last year I owned it a bunch of things went wrong (A/C, brakes, engine coolant leaks) and there was starting to be some rust-through on the left side near the gas filler door which was a chronic issue for a lot of GM cars in the early 2000s. The Buick dealer offered me $4000 for it which was more than it was worth, plus a great deal on the new car, so I took it. Of course from a financial point of view the most sensible thing would have been to drive the wheels off it but what's the fun in that?

The 3800 in the Lacrosse never felt torquey because of the transmission issues, it always felt like it was slipping and the engine laboring. In fact, one time when it was in the service dept for a few days with the trans out of it, I got an '08 Lacrosse as a loaner and it drive way, way better. I could see why people liked the torque of the 3800. Unfortunately the one I owned never was able to show that off. It's too bad because I liked the quiet driving experience, the much more posh interior than the Intrigue (the Buick's leather seats were awesome), and the smooth ride. I should have just asked them to swap transmissions with the one in the loaner!

qbrozen · September 2016

For me, the bimmers don't fit in more than 1 category, so they got knocked out. The thing with the Terrain is that I am seeing 2016s with less than 15k miles for the mid $20s. That is a helluva value. The 2014s, for example, are still worth over $20k. So it scored strongly in cost to own. RDX would be the turbo SH version. Just makes more sense to me. FX would be '09 and up to get the improved performance and efficiency. I'd prefer the '13 and up GLK, but that pushes the price up quite a bit.

andres3 · September 2016

fintail said:
Silvercar has a fleet of Audis, Sixt has some, and Hertz has some too. Or use it as an excuse for a trip to Germany, where almost every Audi can be found in fleets (along with every other non-exotic). I had an A8 rental in Germany a few years ago.

Hondas are the rarity in NA fleets - every now and then a Civic or Accord or lower Acura will pop up somewhere, but it is very uncommon.

Optima has been a fixture in fleets for years now.

andres3 said:

I like the idea, but the cars I like are not usually in rental fleets (Honda's, Audi's). The Kia was a change of pace for me as it is definitely rental material. A nice rental, but I can see it being in fleets.

Oddly Sixt left San Diego. I think it was a bad apple managing the place poorly. They were always slow and seemed to have a lot of people standing around, but were still slow. The cars were good though. It is were I found an E350 for C-class price.

As soon as Silvercar opens up in San Diego, I'm all about it! I think all they have is silver loaded quattro A4's though. Closest one is LAX, and San Diegans don't do LA very well.

andres3 · September 2016

ab348 said:

sda said:
From what I've read reviews on the Lacrosse were favorable, other than a small trunk and some rear visibility issues. Hopefully you didn't have the 2.4 4cyl. which was overburdened with too much car. What made you regret your purchase?
My '09 was the last year of the 1st-generation W-body Lacrosse with the pushrod 3800/4T65E transmission. Aside from the old-man car image, the only real problem it had was a chronically bad transmission that 2 dealers were never able to fix in 2 years of ownership. By that time I hated it, and I was glad to see it gone when I traded it.

did they replace the transmission at some point? I'd get quickly frustrated with attempted and failed "fixes" if it didn't quickly escalate to total replacement.

stickguy · September 2016

qbrozen said:
For me, the bimmers don't fit in more than 1 category, so they got knocked out. The thing with the Terrain is that I am seeing 2016s with less than 15k miles for the mid $20s. That is a helluva value. The 2014s, for example, are still worth over $20k. So it scored strongly in cost to own. RDX would be the turbo SH version. Just makes more sense to me. FX would be '09 and up to get the improved performance and efficiency. I'd prefer the '13 and up GLK, but that pushes the price up quite a bit.

oh yeah, budget is obviously key, since that drives how old/miled up some of these are going to be.

qbrozen · September 2016

Ok, stick, I applied weighted value. With that in place, it does not change the top 4 finishers. FX at the top with 13.7 pts, with H3, RDX, and GLK all tied for 2nd at 13.5. There is a 2-pt gap to the next grouping, so maybe I really should knock those off the list.

I have, however, decided I really need a Comfort category that could change things up, but that will have to wait for test drives of course. There are also some oddballs I have not even put on the list that might warrant a test drive just because we know I'm goofy like that. Caddy of Lincoln pickup anyone? ;b

stickguy · September 2016

an avalanche or F150 (basically what those are) certainly is in a different category.

I would say your top 4 are a statistical tie. so, either weed them out by test drive, or add more categories like comfort. if still tied, just search for them all, and buy the best unit/price you can find!

my guess, the H3 is going to ride/drive/feel much different than the others (and not in what I would think is a good way!). But as always, YMMV

qbrozen · September 2016

Oh the H3 is an outlier for sure. I think it will score very high on comfort though and reliability and cost to own are strong categories, too (thirsty but cheap/easy to fix and strong resale). I will likely ultimately decide it is too low on the performance scale to warrant serious consideration if a fun car is not in the stable to offset it.

but that is kind of where the escalade comes in. It is more than an avalanche thanks to the bigger engine. And that is also what helps it accelerate fairly briskly. Likely way too big and heavy for me, I'm sure.

corvette · September 2016

andres3 said:

did they replace the transmission at some point? I'd get quickly frustrated with attempted and failed "fixes" if it didn't quickly escalate to total replacement.

Same here, that is why my G6 got lemon lawed... Six repair attempts for a transmission issue (let's replace a heat shield, then balance the wheels, then put a [non-GM-approved] additive in the transmission, then replace the valve body, etc.). Oddly enough, the dealer never claimed "no problem found," as dealers often do. Come to think of it, I've had serious automatic transmission problems in all three GM vehicles I've owned.

QB, you need the V6 in the Terrain/Equinox. It's a nice vehicle, but the four-banger is completely gutless and not up to the task of motivating a 4,000+ lb. SUV. It's not like a CR-V, which weighs about as much as an Accord.

kyfdx · September 2016

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

My friend just bought a '98 Z3 with 2.8 litre for $5650. He is about $700 more into it for tires and small repairs. His has 63K miles! White with red leather. We took it out Tuesday night. Solid as a rock.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2016

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

Price is high for the miles. I'm thinkin' $5,500--$6000 is all the money for a very nice one. Things to check include busted welds on the rear subframe and rear window leaks. A 3.0 would be a better choice, or the M model--but you'd pay more for that. Nice colors though.

ab348 · September 2016

corvette said:

andres3 said:

did they replace the transmission at some point? I'd get quickly frustrated with attempted and failed "fixes" if it didn't quickly escalate to total replacement.
Same here, that is why my G6 got lemon lawed... Six repair attempts for a transmission issue (let's replace a heat shield, then balance the wheels, then put a [non-GM-approved] additive in the transmission, then replace the valve body, etc.). Oddly enough, the dealer never claimed "no problem found," as dealers often do.

QB, you need the V6 in the Terrain/Equinox. It's a nice vehicle, but the four-banger is completely gutless and not up to the task of motivating a 4,000+ lb. SUV. It's not like a CR-V, which weighs about as much as an Accord.

Problem with my situation was that the selling dealer went bust a year after I bought from them. By that time it had been in their inept service department on 3 occasions for nearly 6 weeks. But they did fix it temporarily, for a few months, but then it began acting up again at which point it all started over again with a new dealership. They had 2 (or maybe 3) goes at it and made it better, but it had started to go south again just before I traded it. There was very little original left in that transmission by the time I moved on.

stickguy · September 2016

at some point, you would think GM would just say throw a new one in and be done with it.

corvette · September 2016

stickguy said:
at some point, you would think GM would just say throw a new one in and be done with it.

I think GM will send them a Service Repair Transmission Assembly (rebuilt tranny) if they ask for it, but the dealer doesn't get paid as much for R&R transmission as it does for R, disassemble, poke at, and R transmission.

nyccarguy · September 2016

@qbrozen - my favorite on your list is the FX. I know you liked the time you spent with your G35x (same platform) & your Z (for the 9 months you had it). The FX's styling was "out there" when it came out, that it looks modern today. My best friend, who I've said before could hang with the big guns on the CCBA board (not @breld though) once leased an FX35 Sport. He kept it the entire 39 month lease, and was even given the option to extend his lease an additional 6 months which he strongly considered. It didn't give him a lick of trouble at all.

corvette · September 2016

nyccarguy said:
My best friend, who I've said before could hang with the big guns on the CCBA board (not @breld though) once leased an FX35 Sport. He kept it the entire 39 month lease, and was even given the option to extend his lease an additional 6 months which he strongly considered. It didn't give him a lick of trouble at all.

That's a pretty ringing endorsement. I've said before, now that I've parked the Sportwagen and am back to driving the Murano, I appreciate the Nissan even more--it's a great daily driver. Never driven one, but I'm sure an FX35 is even nicer.

qbrozen · September 2016

nyccarguy said:

@qbrozen - my favorite on your list is the FX. I know you liked the time you spent with your G35x (same platform) & your Z (for the 9 months you had it). The FX's styling was "out there" when it came out, that it looks modern today. My best friend, who I've said before could hang with the big guns on the CCBA board (not @breld though) once leased an FX35 Sport. He kept it the entire 39 month lease, and was even given the option to extend his lease an additional 6 months which he strongly considered. It didn't give him a lick of trouble at all.

You have an impressive memory!

qbrozen · September 2016

corvette said:

did they replace the transmission at some point? I'd get quickly frustrated with attempted and failed "fixes" if it didn't quickly escalate to total replacement.
Same here, that is why my G6 got lemon lawed... Six repair attempts for a transmission issue (let's replace a heat shield, then balance the wheels, then put a [non-GM-approved] additive in the transmission, then replace the valve body, etc.). Oddly enough, the dealer never claimed "no problem found," as dealers often do. Come to think of it, I've had serious automatic transmission problems in all three GM vehicles I've owned. QB, you need the V6 in the Terrain/Equinox. It's a nice vehicle, but the four-banger is completely gutless and not up to the task of motivating a 4,000+ lb. SUV. It's not like a CR-V, which weighs about as much as an Accord.

I would only consider the 3.6

stickguy · September 2016

my son should be happy. Edmunds has the 2017 A3 build page up now (before Audi even does), and he ended up waiting for the new one. It will actually be cheaper to get what he wants (msrp), and they now offer a sport package on the premium trim, that includes the sport seats and S3 wheel. Excellent feature. Plus way upgraded connectivity, including carplay (and some other nice upgrades).

graphicguy · September 2016

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

My friend just bought a '98 Z3 with 2.8 litre for $5650. He is about $700 more into it for tires and small repairs. His has 63K miles! White with red leather. We took it out Tuesday night. Solid as a rock.

I have two friends who have older (late '90s) Z3s. Both love them. I liked them, too.

I actually kicked around buying one if I could have found a nice one while I was mulling over the Cobra. I was also looking at 350Z 'verts. The 350Zs I found in that price range were all ratted out, though.....after market body parts, ripped up interiors to install poor stereos, etc.

Plus, most were automatics. The Z3s were just the opposite, most were manuals.

rayainsw · September 2016

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2017-audi-a4-adds-no-cost-manual-transmission-option-for-all-trim-levels/?mag=cdb&list=nl_dvr_news&src=nl&date=092316

stickguy · September 2016

That's good news on the stick. Now they need to do it on the A3

stickguy · September 2016

Anyone need a perfect cheap winter beater? Anything cheaper will be heading to the scrapper.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2000-subaru-legacy_wagon-5dr_brighton_automatic-used-15452710.html

graphicguy · September 2016

stickguy said:
Anyone need a perfect cheap winter beater? Anything cheaper will be heading to the scrapper.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2000-subaru-legacy_wagon-5dr_brighton_automatic-used-15452710.html

Subaru corporate should buy that and use it as an advertisment. Fits into their current marketing scheme.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2016

stickguy said:
Anyone need a perfect cheap winter beater? Anything cheaper will be heading to the scrapper.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2000-subaru-legacy_wagon-5dr_brighton_automatic-used-15452710.html

I liked the "payment calculator" at the bottom of the ad. It shows a monthly payment of $1.05. Hey, I could have this baby paid off in 952 months! Are there car payments in heaven?

Mr_Shiftright · September 2016

henryn said:

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

That looks like a h___ of a lot of fun for $7k. I mean, seriously, just how much fun do you think you can buy for that amount of money these days?

The Z3 is more fun, the Z4 more civilized, comfy and more amenities. The Z3 is a pretty small car, so you have to be built for it if you want to shift and brake comfortably.

By all means, get a PPI--these aren't cheap cars to fix. I agree, a 3.0 Coupe would be the sweet spot on this model.

nyccarguy · September 2016

I like the 3.0si Z4 Coupes.

jpp75 · September 2016

stickguy said:
need to throw that in a spreadsheet, and weight the numbers, since all 4 categories can't count the same!

I actually do this kind of stuff when I am looking (will do for houses too soon, I hope!). And need to have a minimum score for each category, below which is automatic elimination.

the RDX, is that a 12 or before? Ever look at the current version? You might like it! If nothing else, fast and comfortable, besides dead reliable.

If I took your list, and worked it for me, I would eliminate the Terrain, FX35, and H3. Just don't like those. Love the S60, even if it might not be the smartest idea! The prior generation RDX does intrigue me.

I would add the X3 and X1 too.

Our S60 just turned 23k miles. Still love the way it drives, great gas mileage and runs on regular. The back seat is a little tight but it's rare it gets used. Definitely happy with it, just not sure I'd want to own it outside the lease for long term reliability.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2016

nyccarguy said:
I like the 3.0si Z4 Coupes.

A tempting car indeed. Kind of the best of both worlds between the Z3 and Z4. You won't seem them in that price range, though.

uplanderguy · September 2016

Spied today: a current-iteration Ford Fusion, black, black wheels (I have to believe are aftermarket), with the right front tire laying completely flat on the street and the car down on the brake disc, right in front of a Firestone store. Temporary plates on the car too. I'd say this wouldn't be a broken ball joint but a 'whoops' on tightening lug nuts. Duh!

henryn · September 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

henryn said:

stickguy said:
this is pretty. I love this color combo. What the heck is it really worth with those miles> Is $7k smoking crack territory? Looks real clean though, and the place it is at has a good reputation.

https://www.auto.com/cars/bmw-z3-2_5i_roadster-2001-wbacn334x1lk48445

That looks like a h___ of a lot of fun for $7k. I mean, seriously, just how much fun do you think you can buy for that amount of money these days?
The Z3 is more fun, the Z4 more civilized, comfy and more amenities. The Z3 is a pretty small car, so you have to be built for it if you want to shift and brake comfortably.

By all means, get a PPI--these aren't cheap cars to fix. I agree, a 3.0 Coupe would be the sweet spot on this model.

And I am NOT built for it. It would probably take a shoehorn to get me into the thing, and a crane to get me back out. But d___ if it doesn't look like the most fun you could have with your clothes on!

nyccarguy · September 2016

Dear Bradd,

Stop looking at the "2016 Infiniti Q50 Lease Questions" forum on edmunds as well as the "Build your own Infiniti Q50 3.0T AWD Premium" on Infiniti's website. Thank-you.

Best regards,

Your wallet & bank account

28firefighter · September 2016

nyccarguy said:
Dear Bradd,

Stop looking at the "2016 Infiniti Q50 Lease Questions" forum on edmunds as well as the "Build your own Infiniti Q50 3.0T AWD Premium" on Infiniti's website. Thank-you.

Best regards,

Your wallet & bank account

Have you driven one? I think you might be disappointed.

EDIT: Though it does look like they have pretty incredible deals on them right now.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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