Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

tifighter · December 2016

I actually got mine at the dealer in Tacoma. I wanted the pano roof, and they had 3 of them. I was expecting the usual high pressure stuff, but it never happened. The finance guy didn't even try to sell me anything, although maybe because it was a leased EV, not sure. Anyhow, a better experience than expected.

cdnpinhead · December 2016

28firefighter said:
. . .I was expecting better since, this is supposedly the more respected Kia dealer in the area.

Sounds to me like a pretty low bar. Either way, looks like you did the best you could for your BIL/SIL.

imidazol97 · December 2016

stever said:
A photo of the new car with you flashing your forums ID will be sufficient.

Flashing? LOL

nyccarguy · December 2016

@28firefighter - you did a great job! $198 per month with minimal drive off is a fantastic deal! I just love how the manufacturers "play" with numbers. They offset a 35% residual with $14K+ in lease cash!

I've never had any personal dealings with a Kia dealer. The cars themselves seem to be heading in the right direction. There are always generous amounts of lease cash & low money factors. They are always the ones running the "push, pull, or tow & we'll give you $3K... Ads."

laurasdada · December 2016

Have a fun, safe New Year's Eve folks! Heading to Cape Cod to spend it with ladyfriend's relatives. She's driving us down in her new 328xi. I'm going to be the youngest guy there, wonder if I'll make it to midnight?

graphicguy · December 2016

laurasdada said:
Have a fun, safe New Year's Eve folks! Heading to Cape Cod to spend it with ladyfriend's relatives. She's driving us down in her new 328xi. I'm going to be the youngest guy there, wonder if I'll make it to midnight?

Oooooohhhh...this is sounding serious. Happy New Year!

corvette · December 2016

I think you win, laurasdada. I'm helping nurse my GF after she had her gallbladder removed yesterday. It wasn't nearly as painless for her as nearly every other person we know who has had the same laproscopic surgery. Hope our next New Year's is better!

28firefighter · December 2016

Happy and healthy New Years to all of my friends here! We're going to be laying low - I doubt my wife will make it much past 10pm PT anyway, so I suspect we will celebrate east coast time.

In case it is any surprise to the folks here, the delivery of the car did not go all that smoothly for my BIL. They made a hard sell for maintenance and an extended warranty, and also tried to get my BIL to sign forms that had blatantly wrong information for another person with the same name - clearly a case of pre-prepared paperwork and pulling information from the computer without checking. He finally told them they could reprint the forms or he would go elsewhere. Suffice to say, they reprinted the forms and after 2 hours in F&I and another hour for delivery he was on his way.

Wife and I made it back to the Subaru dealer today to have her drive the Forester XT. She loves it and is ready to be done here and now. I want her to drive an X1 though and maybe the Sportage.

My BIL also had a $500 gift card to a VW dealer to use as part of the VW Goodwill program when all of this mess started. He was going to let it expire today since he didn't want/need anything from a VW dealer. Instead he offered me the card for all my help with the Soul, so I went today and bought the Helix Soundbox (plug-in subwoofer and amp) for the GTI for $450 installed including tax. They had to order the part but it should be in within a couple weeks. A very nice thing of them to do!

28firefighter · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
@28firefighter - you did a great job! $198 per month with minimal drive off is a fantastic deal! I just love how the manufacturers "play" with numbers. They offset a 35% residual with $14K+ in lease cash!

I've never had any personal dealings with a Kia dealer. The cars themselves seem to be heading in the right direction. There are always generous amounts of lease cash & low money factors. They are always the ones running the "push, pull, or tow & we'll give you $3K... Ads."

The car itself is really very nice and for the money, it is hard to beat it. But the dealer experience, my gosh.

suydam · December 2016

Congrats on the purchase!
I had the same experience with the F&I when I bought the Encore -- wrong persons name on the forms, took 2 hours to correct -- what's up with that?

ab348 · December 2016

suydam said:
Congrats on the purchase!
I had the same experience with the F&I when I bought the Encore -- wrong persons name on the forms, took 2 hours to correct -- what's up with that?

Reminds me of when I got my 2011 Regal Turbo. Nightmarish experience in the F&I office, everything was wrong, took hours to fix. Should probably have walked away.

houdini1 · December 2016

I wonder if that is taught in F&I school. The misdirection or straw man technique. Get you concentrating on fixing one obvious "mistake" while slipping something else past you.

suydam · December 2016

I actually had a pleasant F&I experience when I leased the Volt. Is leasing more straightforward? I think it's the first time ever for me.

stickguy · December 2016

so, am I nuts to like this? Thinking ahead (since I of course don't need one now), but looking at something that can serve as a 2nd car, not many miles, be useful, not a penalty box, and room to tote around a dog. Older, but miles not bad, looks clean, 1 owner, and not that much money.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2001-lexus-rx_300-used-15807062.html

I liked this one too. I think it was listed (so sold at) about $5,999

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2005-jeep-grand_cherokee-4dr_limited_4wd-used-15665777.html

stickguy · December 2016

I also liked this. Seems like a good deal for a loaded limited. Like the colors too. Would be perfect if I was buying something now for the princess, instead of doing a cheap lease.

http://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Hyundai/2013-Hyundai-Elantra-Cherry+Hill+NJ-bea58c200a0e0a6b0cf40ddbc99819e4.htm?searchDepth=18:52

28firefighter · December 2016

stickguy said:
so, am I nuts to like this? Thinking ahead (since I of course don't need one now), but looking at something that can serve as a 2nd car, not many miles, be useful, not a penalty box, and room to tote around a dog. Older, but miles not bad, looks clean, 1 owner, and not that much money.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2001-lexus-rx_300-used-15807062.html

I liked this one too. I think it was listed (so sold at) about $5,999

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2005-jeep-grand_cherokee-4dr_limited_4wd-used-15665777.html

I am a sucker for those Jeeps. But, I can't help but worry about the longevity.

stickguy · December 2016

well yeah, that did run through my mind. One reason I liked the soccermom mobile better!

Sandman6472 · December 2016

Happy New Year folks!!

Home alone as the wife is down in Miami with our daughter as she settles into her new apartment. Her job starts the 9th and she only has a new bed right now. So furniture buying is going on these next few days and since I've gotta work, decided to stay home. Enjoying the quiet though as with our youngest engaged and the oldest just announcing hers, looks to be a busy year! Nice to have some time to just take it all in.
And at this stage of life, New Years is just another day!

The Sandman

stickguy · December 2016

almost there. Better to get out of the way early though, for those of us that don't care about staying up for it!

henryn · January 2017

Nearly 2 years ago I volunteered to play music for a Meetup group that I belong to. I had a fairly good music collection, and figured I could do better than what they had been doing. I have been adding equipment (PA speakers, stands, cables, microphone, etc), and collecting more and more music. Tonight was my first real DJ gig, for a big private party. I was a little nervous, never having worked before a crowd that big, and needing to cover 5 hours (8 p.m. to 1 a.m.)

But it went pretty well, and I think everyone had a good time. Just to keep this car related, I was able to haul everything in the Passat. Two 15 inch PA speakers, and the stands for those speakers, fit in the trunk. The back seat held the computer, a mass of cables, and the table to hold the computer.

The woman I was dating (the one who discovered the heated seats in my truck, for those who remember that story), had other plans and left me standing. I made a quick recovery, and had another date lined up, but she got sick at the last minute and had to back out. Which is probably for the best, as I had my hands full tonight and wouldn’t have been able to give much attention to a date.

Sandman6472 · January 2017

Hertz is using many of the vehicles they would wholesale now for Uber use. Our group of drivers has been picking them up and driving them to the Hertz HLE location in Miami that rents the Uber vehicles. A lot of Nissan Altima's and Sentra's with miles in the high 30's to mid 40's. Also some Chrysler 200's. Heard that as an employee of Hertz, we're not allowed to rent them for our own Uber use which seems totally unfair to me. No one can give me a reason as to why either. Don't get it though!!!

The Sandman

Mr_Shiftright · January 2017

stickguy said:
well yeah, that did run through my mind. One reason I liked the soccermom mobile better!

No way you want a Cherokee with 112K on it.

The RX-300 wouldn't be a bad purchase at all. Those are pretty darn good cars.

suydam · January 2017

sandman_6472 said:
Hertz is using many of the vehicles they would wholesale now for Uber use. Our group of drivers has been picking them up and driving them to the Hertz HLE location in Miami that rents the Uber vehicles. A lot of Nissan Altima's and Sentra's with miles in the high 30's to mid 40's. Also some Chrysler 200's. Heard that as an employee of Hertz, we're not allowed to rent them for our own Uber use which seems totally unfair to me. No one can give me a reason as to why either. Don't get it though!!!

The Sandman

You mean if you were an Uber driver you couldn't use them for that job?

tbirdmarco · January 2017

Happy new year to all now lets get the punches for the new year going lol. sorry don't post on hear as much every now and than.

tbirdmarco · January 2017

@breld congrads on the punches of the two new cars. clobman is nice

tbirdmarco · January 2017

Cant wat for the upcumming auto show in the moter city love to see all of the new cars and trucks cumming out.

stever · January 2017

@henryn, you may need a different hobby if you want to keep from getting stood up. You know the old joke - what do you call a musician without a girlfriend?

Homeless.

If you keep this gig, you'll have to upgrade to a minivan.

ab348 · January 2017

henryn said:
The woman I was dating (the one who discovered the heated seats in my truck, for those who remember that story), had other plans and left me standing.

Maybe you need to swap out the heated seats for ejection seats in advance of your next date.

corvette · January 2017

Ok, who will get the first punch of 2017? (It's statistically likely to be breld.

)

Michaell · January 2017

corvette said:
Ok, who will get the first punch of 2017? (It's statistically likely to be breld. )

He may still get that Paceman he mentioned last week - if the price drops.

stickguy · January 2017

won't be me. unless I get my wife to fall in love with something at the car show, but that is still 4 weeks from now.

kyfdx · January 2017

I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2017

kyfdx said:
I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

You owe a big THANKS to the system of checks and balances

nyccarguy · January 2017

So what was the official punch total/list for 2016?

stickguy · January 2017

need to count the late ballots to make sure. Breld may have sneaked in a Paceman punch at 11:45.

stever · January 2017

Probably heard all the muttering from the viewer's gallery.

imidazol97 · January 2017

kyfdx said:
I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

Isn't there a capability to override the veto?

stever · January 2017

Have to ask the Kitchen Cabinet.

And that's what would have to be remodeled, lol.

qbrozen · January 2017

kyfdx said:

I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

For the money, it is likely I would have bought first and asked forgiveness later.

stickguy · January 2017

My motto has always been "it is easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission". And much more fun.

28firefighter · January 2017

Alrighty, so I rented an X1 today from the BMW car share service here in Seattle (ReachNow) - figured a good long test drive was in order and it would be easier to do on our own than with a sales person. Cost us $15 for 45 minutes of driving, which isn't bad. We were also able to pull it into our very tight driveway and load it up with some stuff to see how it fared.

Features wise, I'd call the X1s they have as part of the fleet mid-range. They come with the Premium Package, Luxury Package, Park Assist and Navigation for Business (smaller screen). The car we drove did not have the bigger HD infotainment screen, BLIS, or any of the other safety nannies, but it was equipped enough to give us a good sense for what it would be like. To get a 2016 leftover loaded up comparably to the Forester we drove, the MSRP would be right around $46k. Not cheap, to say the least.

Aesthetically, this is a good looking car inside and out. The outside is very polished and clearly reflects BMWs current X line model design - in fact, parked right behind it on the street was a BMW X5 (not a part of the car share), and I could barely tell them apart aside from size. Inside, the interior is fairly basic but very effectively uses the space. My first impression when I got in the drivers seat is that it is very narrow inside, and I'm not a big guy by any stretch. I'm not sure if it was just poor placement of the arm rest on the drivers door, but I did not have nearly as much knee room as I would like. The infotainment system uses BMWs iDrive system, which I don't love or hate - I find it effective enough, if not a bit complicated. The interior had a lot of soft touch plastics, but also a lot more hard plastic than I expected in a $46k car, which I expect also contributed to the amount of rattling I heard (more on that below).

I was the first to drive, and there is no other way to say this - it beats the snot out of the Forester XT for all around driving capability. Acceleration, cornering, steering is all absolutely phenomenal for a small SUV - it handles not unlike my GTI, if not a bit more refined and softer. BMW has done an excellent job with the 4 cylinder 28i engine. My opinion is that if nothing else counted, the X1 would win hands down. My wife on the other hand said it drove nicely but that she also liked how the Forester drove a lot too.

There were a couple other disappointments as well. First, the cargo area although best-in-class is functionally considerably smaller than the other cars we've considered. I think it would be adequate, but not nearly as flexible. I believe the X1 has 27 cubic inches of cargo capacity with the rear seat up vs. the Forester's 34.4 cubic inches. However the Forester also has a larger hatch opening and more height to stack things, which makes a difference. Second, the X1 had 688 miles on it and was already rattling like crazy from the dash, the door panels and the rear hatch. That has been my #1 complaint about the Escape and does not bode well.

I'm not taking it off the list just yet, but as far as my wife is concerned, she doesn't see the point.

In order for this to work, we would need to find a leftover 2016 while they're still supporting them. Assuming we did (and could make arrangements for the Escape), it would be about $3500 upfront and $382/month including tax. Of that $3500, we'd get $2800 of it back at the end of the lease as they'd be multiple security deposits. A good deal given the price of the car, but still not cheap and requires a bit more legwork. Comparatively, the Forester would be about $340/month including tax with nothing except first month and tags due at signing.

My wife's perspective is that it isn't worth the extra legwork, upfront money (even if it is returned at the end), and increased monthly payment.

I'm trying not to be blinded by the driving dynamics, but it is difficult...

suydam · January 2017

As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.

28firefighter · January 2017

suydam said:
As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.

I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...

kyfdx · January 2017

imidazol97 said:

kyfdx said:
I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.
Isn't there a capability to override the veto?

I quit my job, two months ago. Might not be the best time for a floor debate.

Michaell · January 2017

28firefighter said:

suydam said:
As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.
I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...

If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision.

And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.

28firefighter · January 2017

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

suydam said:
As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.
I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision.

And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.

Interestingly enough, the dealers have said that not only do they have no problem ordering them, but can actually offer more competitive pricing on them. Without any negotiating, I've been getting offers of $1000 under invoice, which seems crazy.

We have 5 payments left on the Escape and factory orders can take anywhere from 3-4 months to deliver, so I'm trying to figure out when we need to get this locked down.

laurasdada · January 2017

corvette said:
I think you win, laurasdada. I'm helping nurse my GF after she had her gallbladder removed yesterday. It wasn't nearly as painless for her as nearly every other person we know who has had the same laproscopic surgery. Hope our next New Year's is better!

Sorry, Vette. I hope she's doing ok, you had a decent NYE. I had my gall bladder removed laproscopically a few years ago, was on a plane for Vegas three days later!

Nice NYE here, dinner on the canal in Sandwich, simple night of cards with the relatives (and, omg, desserts-o-rama!), midnight and sleep shortly thereafter.

Hope everyone had a nice, safe NYE!

Michaell · January 2017

28firefighter said:

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

suydam said:
As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.
I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision.

And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.
Interestingly enough, the dealers have said that not only do they have no problem ordering them, but can actually offer more competitive pricing on them. Without any negotiating, I've been getting offers of $1000 under invoice, which seems crazy.

We have 5 payments left on the Escape and factory orders can take anywhere from 3-4 months to deliver, so I'm trying to figure out when we need to get this locked down.

Are the Foresters built in Japan or Indiana?

I couldn't get anywhere near invoice on our Outback 2 years ago.

I'd wait about 6 weeks before placing the order - better to have the car there right when the lease on the Escape is done. Not sure that the dealer will want to sit on an ordered car for a few weeks (or longer), and you probably don't want to have any leftover charges on the Escape lease to roll over to the Forester.

stickguy · January 2017

not sure about Ford, but the VW dealer did say that if we needed the Jetta slightly longer, we could extend for a short time (a month or 2?) Not sure of how that works, but I think just make the same payment. Might take them up on that, depending on what the Princess is doing right after graduation. Hopefully working already, so if so and she needs the car for commuting, might be worth extending to give some more time for her to get a replacement (in her name, on her dime!).

As to the X1, the one I drove was loaded. Including the sports seats. Gotta have those! which is going to be real tough on a left over. I don't recall any rattles, but it was a short drive. I did love the driving dynamics. and plenty big enough for me.

I never drove an XT Forester. Not sure I even drove a base engine? Rode in them with my SIL when she test drove (ended up buying one, and likes it). I'm sure the extra HP is nice. Definitely more functional, having a squared off back end.

1K below invoice is good. I can get insider VIP exec pricing, and I think that is 2% below (so on a 30k car, about $600). Guess it pays to haggle first. I plan to look at them next year, and the new Imprezza.

28firefighter · January 2017

Michaell said:

As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.
I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision. And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.
Interestingly enough, the dealers have said that not only do they have no problem ordering them, but can actually offer more competitive pricing on them. Without any negotiating, I've been getting offers of $1000 under invoice, which seems crazy. We have 5 payments left on the Escape and factory orders can take anywhere from 3-4 months to deliver, so I'm trying to figure out when we need to get this locked down.
Are the Foresters built in Japan or Indiana? I couldn't get anywhere near invoice on our Outback 2 years ago. I'd wait about 6 weeks before placing the order - better to have the car there right when the lease on the Escape is done. Not sure that the dealer will want to sit on an ordered car for a few weeks (or longer), and you probably don't want to have any leftover charges on the Escape lease to roll over to the Forester.

Japan.

My understanding is that each dealer has to take a certain allotment of vehicles and are perfectly happy to factory order and know that car is going out the door immediately. I could be wrong though.

I checked pricing from Heuberger Subaru in CO Springs to get a baseline idea of what high volume dealers are offering, and they offered me $1400 under invoice. Add back the $400 delivery and handling and you're at $1000 under invoice.

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