Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh · September 2017

It is nice to see how some of the money that my family has spent on Accords over the years is going back into my neighboring state of Ohio. Here's some video of the production of the 2018 Accord in Kentucky....The video unfortunately has painfully bad music. Best watched with sound off imho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOxFogAFmpc&t=4s

benjaminh · September 2017

2017 Elantra and Sonata production in Alabama....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsRk886PZD4

stickguy · September 2017

Accord looks nice but man, 18" low profile tires on the base level model is silly. Hopefully EX not moving to 19s, but I bet the sport will be riding on 20s

roadburner · September 2017

I had 18" tires on my MS3 for 158k miles and never had an issue. I have them on my 2er and the first set of PSS lasted 32.8k with no problems. That said, 19" is about as big as I'm willing to go on a DD.

andres3 · September 2017

stickguy said:
should get something for the extra $20-25K price of admission.

People just value different things differently.

Case in point, the new TTRS, stickers around $75,000 depending on your options level.

There are people in the camp that say it's a bargain, because it'll beat $100K cars around the track and does 3.6 0-60.

There are people in the camp that say I'd rather have "XYZ" with more horsepower for less money (never mind if it weighs twice as much and can't turn any faster than your Sonata)

andres3 · September 2017

stickguy said:
Accord looks nice but man, 18" low profile tires on the base level model is silly. Hopefully EX not moving to 19s, but I bet the sport will be riding on 20s

They have gone nuts with wheel sizes. I just had Costco quote me 4 new Michelin Pilot 4S's (the new Super Sport; only better in every way). Costco has low tire prices.

Promotions ($70 off and free installation). I had forgot how expensive fat 19" tires were. Even with the low pricing and promotions, I'm looking at just over a grand for 255/35R19's.

Accord 19" won't be that much less. Even with a lease it might not be possible to avoid a tire purchase/or deduction.

brian125 · September 2017

I could see the Tire company's kicking back to the Auto industry to go bigger ??

Remember the days when 13 and 14 ' tires were in. If u told me in the 70's that standard vehicles would have 19 / 20 tire size's I would of laughed.

My X-5 has 19's . With 10k as a DD in the NYC area I have had no problems , but then again NYC's 5 boroughs have made big progress fixing the war Torn roads. My Genesis has "LP" 19's. and mainly sits in my garage in Myrtle Beach for when the family goes down. . Did lose a Tire and Rim on my Genesis in NY a couple of years ago.

@andres3 - you know the old saying.......... Gotta pay to play big !!!

brian125 · September 2017

@stickguy I cant imagine the roads by u are that bad?? U moved out of Camden?

suydam · September 2017

The Buick Encore has 18" tires which seems right for it. The Volt and my '13 Accord have 17s, which to me feels right for a compact/midsize car.

andres3 · September 2017

suydam said:
The Buick Encore has 18" tires which seems right formit. The Volt and my '13 Accord have 17s, which to me feels right for a compact/midsize car.

To put it in perspective, my hot hatch '06 Audi A3 came with 17" wheels, and that includes the "sport package" version I chose. Summer 225/45R17. I hesitated upgrading to 18" wheels on it, and considered staying with 17's. It was a relative performance car, funny to me that Accord's and Camry's have to come with large wheels now.

stickguy · September 2017

RB, you have performance cas. Accord LX is an entry level family sedan, where $ is still supposed to count! 225/50-17 seems perfect for a car like the accord. 235/45-18 for he sport. Anything bigger is probably counterproductive, especially in the mid level models.

stickguy · September 2017

And yes, the roads around here, especially into philly, really are that bad.

benjaminh · September 2017

Sorry. My mistake. The 2018 Accord LX gets 17" tires, specifically 225/50/R17. Sport gets 19" tires: 235/40/R19. Not sure what model we were looking at in the video.

stickguy · September 2017

So I pegged it! Nice. Might get 18s on the the EX or touring. Something splitting the difference. Like 225/45. Or just the same 17s

benjaminh · September 2017

I think my 2002 Accord LX had 15" tires. Here's what the Jetta SE gets, which seems like a good tire for this size of car.

16" Sedona Black alloy wheels
16" all-season tires 205/55R16H

http://www.vw.com/models/jetta/trims/2017/2017-14t-se-trim/edit/tab/summary/

stickguy · September 2017

That is fine for me. Maybe go to 215 width for a smudge more contact patch

ab348 · September 2017

The arms race on wheel sizes has really taken off. My '02 Intrigue had 16" which I thought was very sporty at the time. My '09 Lacrosse had 17" which seemed not useful on that car but looked nice. My '11 Regal had 18" which looked good. My '14 ATS had 17" which looked too small, my new one has 18" which look good but I think 19" might look better. A friend's new 6-cyl Camaro has 20".

benjaminh · September 2017

Redline gives a mixed review for the Jetta 1.4T

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XMpW3x2AyU

explorerx4 · September 2017

My 91 Mustang has 16 inch wheels, which were not common at that time.
My wife MKC has 20's, but it rides pretty well.
The 18's on my Fusion definitely ride better than the 19's on my prior Fusion.
The truck has 20's with tall sidewalls on the tire. They are a lot taller than the tires on the MKC.

andres3 · September 2017

How about some 22's for your next Jeep?

benjaminh · September 2017

C&D on the new Camry"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-toyota-camry-se-25l-test-review

"...this 2018 Camry SE managed to circle our 300-foot skidpad at an impressive 0.88 g wearing a set of Hankook Kinergy GT all-season tires...Even more impressive was the Camry SE’s 45-mpg showing on our 75-mph highway fuel-economy run, which is 1 mpg better than that of the Camry hybrid. The four-cylinder’s straight-line performance was less rousing. Zero to 60 mph required 7.9 seconds, just 0.1 second ahead of the old car. Meanwhile, the new Camry’s slow-to-downshift automatic transmission contributed to a 50-to-70-mph passing time of 6.0 seconds, 0.4 second worse than the previous-generation Camry SE and 1.2 seconds behind the Mazda 6....

Cost cutting, however, is apparent on the center console and door panels, which feature harder plastics. Shutting this Camry SE’s doors resulted in a disappointingly hollow sound unbecoming of a vehicle with a starting price of $26,095....Although family-sedan shoppers who prize driving engagement will be better served by a Honda Accord or a Mazda 6, choosing a Camry no longer means forsaking satisfying driving dynamics."

benjaminh · September 2017

A few months ago I thought the Camry might steal the Accord's spot on C&D's ten best list, but it doesn't look like it:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-toyota-camry-se-25l-test-review

"this 2018 Camry SE managed to circle our 300-foot skidpad at an impressive 0.88 g ....Even more impressive was the Camry SE’s 45-mpg showing on our 75-mph highway fuel-economy run, which is 1 mpg better than that of the Camry hybrid.The four-cylinder’s straight-line performance was less rousing. Zero to 60 mph required 7.9 seconds, just 0.1 second ahead of the old car. Meanwhile, the new Camry’s slow-to-downshift automatic transmission contributed to a 50-to-70-mph passing time of 6.0 seconds, 0.4 second worse than the previous-generation Camry SE and 1.2 seconds behind the Mazda 6....

Cost cutting, however, is apparent on the center console and door panels, which feature harder plastics. Shutting this Camry SE’s doors resulted in a disappointingly hollow sound unbecoming of a vehicle with a starting price of $26,095. Other demerits include Toyota’s ...lack of Apple CarPlay or Android Auto....Although family-sedan shoppers who prize driving engagement will be better served by a Honda Accord or a Mazda 6, choosing a Camry no longer means forsaking satisfying driving dynamics."

roadburner · September 2017

But the new Camry is a "Wild One!"
Haven't you seen the ads?

stickguy · September 2017

well, 7.9 is going to be plenty for most buyers. Basically all the ones that were fine with 8.0 last year.

The thing I did not like was the huge angled dash jut out on the passenger side. My wife hated it also.

and .88 Gs in a Camry? Wow. And hard to argue with the MPG.

[Deleted User] · September 2017

benjaminh said:
Sorry. My mistake. The 2018 Accord LX gets 17" tires, specifically 225/50/R17. Sport gets 19" tires: 235/40/R19. Not sure what model we were looking at in the video.

A base model Honda Accord gets reasonably comparative tires that the new digi-dash Corvette had in 1987. It had 245-50-16" tires. So, smaller diameter but wider cross section..so a pretty good comparison.

Cars have come a long way..

[Deleted User] · September 2017

I recently drove a 2016 Camry SE for an entire day. It was cheap inside, especially the I/P, was refined by engine sound, but since it only puts out 170 HP out of 2.5 liters, while my Optima puts out 200 HP out of a 2.4, I would NEVER consider it as an option.

[Deleted User] · September 2017

I modified the intake on my car. It now has a full on K&N intake system, and I just had the fue system purged/cleaned out and the service mechanic commented on how quick it felt. Compared it to the recent Turbos. I was shocked. Maybe it just sounds fast. Yes I still want a genuinely fast car, but even though all my tickets have fallen off (b y using my pho nes HUD app and programming it to beep and flash the LED's from white to red display

explorerx4 · September 2017

Took the Fusion on it's first road trip longer than 100 miles yesterday.
4 of us drove up to the Nascar race in New Hampshire and back yesterday.
My BIL and his 2 sons weigh over 700 lbs combined.
They are not bodybuilders, but they do lift weights regularly.
Add in the other stuff we brought along, coolers, folding chairs, etc, and the car did have to work going up some of the hills.
Plenty of momentum on the way down, though!
Averaged 30.6 mpg, so I'm pretty happy with that.
End of the week is a longer trip, Indiana and back, about 1700 miles.
After putting on just over 5K miles in 11 months, I'll adding 2K in a week.

[Deleted User] · September 2017

My Optima is still running strong. 60k and 5.8 yrs old

[Deleted User] · September 2017

I dont see how Camry SE owners could be happy with engine output. I was scared to merge in to I-495

berri · September 2017

I'm thinking an Optima and Camry are different buyers. Maybe Camry v Sonata and Optima v Accord?

ab348 · September 2017

From what I've read so far the 2018 Camry has over 200HP in the base configuration but is held back by a transmission that doesn't like to downshift, in the name of fuel economy. You'd think a 200HP engine in a car like that would be plenty.

[Deleted User] · September 2017

Agreed, but the new Optima is getting more and more Camry like with the Optima EX compared to the Camry SE. The power output has been reduced on this 4th version of my car, and increased o n the Camry to where my Optima originally was. Hint to Hyundai- Kia Keep the power output on the 2.4 liter at 200HP. Turbos used to have 274 HP...they now have 245HP for "better drivability"???? What? Aren't Power outputs supposed to creep up or at least stay close to the same as new models come out?

benjaminh · September 2017

Kelley Blue Book gives a few early impressions of the 2018 Accord....And rear visibility looks like it might be ok? Anyway, blind spot monitoring is available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY779scnOpQ

benjaminh · September 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxFRGelRvqw

benjaminh · September 2017

2018 Accord will have vtec turbo standard. According to temple of vtec that makes the standard Accord engine a little better than the 1.5 in the Civic Si, which does not have vtec....

"The 1.5T in the 2018 Accord has VTEC!
Date: September 25, 2017 23:45
Submitted by: JeffX
Source: TOV News
We're visiting New Hampshire as a guest of Honda to check out the all new 2018 Honda Accord. One of the first things we discovered tonight is that in addition to variable cam phasing (VTC), the Accord's 1.5L Turbocharged engine (which will serve as the base engine for the Accord) features VTEC on the exhaust side of the cylinder head. This differs from the L15BA and L15B7 found in the Honda Civic and CR-V range, which feature VTC but no lift control (VTEC). By adding VTEC to this engine, Honda is able to broaden the torque curve and also help improve boost response..."

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1333493

benjaminh · September 2017

KBB also likes the Fusion....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44j53slOVmg

benjaminh · September 2017

I'm sure there's a person from Edmonds.com at the 2018 Accord drive event that's going on right now. Who are you?? And please post what you can tell us so far! I know you have to avoid "driving impressions," but just cover some of the other stuff like KBB and vtec.net are doing....

stickguy · September 2017

Thanks for accord info. I love it. Especially the seats and infotainment. Definetly the option if I stay with a big sedan. I wish the civic had those thrones. Only odd thing is they make sensing standard, but skimp on BLIS, which of course is the only one of the safety gizmos I actually want. Hopefully if I look at this, the model I want comes with it.

Really need equipment details and pricing released!

benjaminh · September 2017

Agree that BLIS is even more important than Sensing, but....My guess is that everything above LX is going to have blind spot monitoring, but we'll see. They might save blis for EX, which, with destination is likely to be about $29,000. I've never leased a car and don't understand how it works. But good resale value helps to lower payments, doesn't it? If so, that might help the 2018 Accord's lease rates.

stickguy · September 2017

If sport 1.5 has it, great. Still considering that. But likely EX, which almost certainly will.

Leasing is like the black arts, as to how they derive numbers. Or a street magician. You think you see something, but not always what's actually there.

But yes, super high resale (residual) helps keep payment down

suydam · September 2017

Beautiful exterior. Really like it. Interior is pure Honda. If you've owned Hondas you know where everything is. Which is not a bad thing.

stickguy · September 2017

The ILX has steering wheel and main dash identical to our RDX. It was weird almost.

benjaminh · September 2017

The 2018 Accord LX is the base model, and yet apparently it gets the same full LED headlights as the upper trim models. LED tail lights are also standard. Surprisingly also standard on the LX is push button start, as well as the previously mentioned 17" tires at 225/50, and continuing as standard from the last model is dual zone climate control. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the LX gets AndroidAuto or blis, but otherwise with Sensing, etc., it's going to be a nice package for c. $25k msrp. The price is just a guess, but I don't see how they can go much higher in the competitive and declining midsize market.

I wonder if making LED headlights and pushbutton start standard saves on manufacturing costs. It must. Imagine having to make and order two different kinds of lighting systems and two different starting systems. I think they just took the savings and "gave" those things to the LX, kind of like all trims got dual zone on this generation.

stickguy · September 2017

Those features replace other parts, so possible no longer cost more. Like navi, they often charge extra to have it, not because it costs more to make. Stuff like a moonroof, that actually has real expense to include.

Heck, in theory, the 2.0l engine should cost very little more than the 1.5!

andres3 · September 2017

stickguy said:
Those features replace other parts, so possible no longer cost more. Like navi, they often charge extra to have it, not because it costs more to make. Stuff like a moonroof, that actually has real expense to include.

Heck, in theory, the 2.0l engine should cost very little more than the 1.5!

Isn't 2.0L 33% bigger than 1.5L?

benjaminh · September 2017

My guess is that the 2.0T costs Honda about as much more as the $1k they are likely to charge customers compared to the 1.5T, but who knows?....

brian125 · September 2017

Accord Pricing and leasing numbers on this new model will be high thru 2017 and probably the first quarter in 2018. Demand will for sure out pace supply.

stickguy · September 2017

Leasing maybe, sales prices not for long. Too many dealers, too much competition. And too much capacity. Especially for the more common models (MT sports will likely have much different market).

Should help with getting a good deal on a Camry though!

benjaminh · September 2017

brian125 said:
Accord Pricing and leasing numbers on this new model will be high thru 2017 and probably the first quarter in 2018. Demand will for sure out pace supply.

But the Marysville factory is huge. They are going to make a large number of 2018 Accords right off the bat, and these days most people are looking for SUVs. My guess is that on day one you could get $1000 off a 2018 Accord easy, and in a month maybe $1500 off. But probably that's what you mean. Right now, as you know, many people are getting $4-5k off msrp on the last of the 2017 Accords, and so compared to that it will be a relatively modest discount. But Brian is our Accord price Yoda, and so he is likely to know the score....++

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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