A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

thecardoc3 · September 2017

I haven't been able to use the audible continuity test in my multimeter for quite some time. I just can't hear it. But hearing aids are not in my future. They are too expensive so I will just have to do without.

isellhondas · September 2017

I know I've lost my upper range. Those ear plugs the Army provided on the firing range that nobody bothered to use?

kyfdx · September 2017

I would also add that standing in front of the amps at concerts is not a good idea.

And, if my wife is shouting at me from another room, I just pretend I can't hear her, either way

Mr_Shiftright · September 2017

"Over 30% of all American men suffer from SMD (Selective Male Deafness). You can help....or you can turn the page..."

0patience · September 2017

@Mr_Shiftright
The problem I have now is when I get the hearing aids, I won't have an excuse to not be listening.

They are talking about some new fancy hearing aids that are hardly noticeable and have bluetooth, so I can listen to audio books or music and really not hear anything.

Michaell · September 2017

My wife was convinced that I suffered from a hearing problem. Sent me to an audiologist, where I passed with flying colors.

Now, she knows I'm just ignoring her.

thecardoc3 · September 2017

The first hearing test that I failed was some five years ago. Back then the doctor suggested two different courses. One was to wait a year or two since what was missing was the higher pitches and I could make do without those for the most part, the other was to get programmable aids where they could selectively adjust the gain based on the frequencies that are the most impaired. At a total of $8,000 for the hearing aids it was a simple choice, there is no way we can afford that. There is just so much money to work with and way to many other needs that have to be addressed.

I never went back for another test but can clearly tell my hearing has gotten worse. When we listen to the radio and an oldie comes on, I know exactly what the song used to sound like and now it is different. Most of the cymbals, bells, chimes are absent in the music for me. As I mentioned I can't hear my multi-meter when it is set to audible tone, unless I hold it about five inches from my ear. When I would set the alarm in the shop I could barely hear the conformation tone when I was standing right in front of it, and it was gone in a single step back. Meanwhile my wife could be sitting in the car outside the shop and hear it clearly.

Ever been in the airport and saw them giving someone a ride between the terminals? Apparently the buggy they use makes some kind of a noise........

0patience · September 2017

All the techs at my work are required to have annual hearing tests. Specifically because of this sort of thing. I won't be paying anything for hearing aids.
@thecardoc3
Look into eargoplus hearing aids, $2k, but they have payment plans.
A couple techs at work have them and they seem to like them.

And by your comment, I will assume you have a Fluke meter. I can't hear mine either. For some reason, Fluke's tone is at that range that most techs lose. You would think they'd have researched that.

Not sure what I will end up with. A lot of paperwork to deal with, being at the same place for 21 years, it's pretty straight forward though.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2017

Michaell said:
My wife was convinced that I suffered from a hearing problem. Sent me to an audiologist, where I passed with flying colors.

Now, she knows I'm just ignoring her.

No, no, that's called "I'm meditating and having a mind-out-of-body experience".

0patience · September 2017

@thecardoc3
Thought you might appreciate this.
It is my office/shop on wheels. My beast. LOL!
She's been through a hurricane, storms of 100+mph winds, snow storms and while she is so slow she can't get out of her own way, it is an extension of who I am now. LOL!

Mr_Shiftright · September 2017

Kind of a gigantic Swiss Army Knife!

thecardoc3 · September 2017

Here is my "office" these days. 2010 Escape 2.5l

It will be going over 230K by the end of this coming week, but has a pressing need that I can finally start attending to since my home shop is now up and running fully.

This is the inside of the drivers door, looking at it you wouldn't know that anything was wrong.

But the same seams on the rest of the doors and the lift gate tell a different story.

Those aren't as big of a deal as the rear wheel wells are.

Rust like this is caused by road salts and the fact that water when it gets in between the layers of metal and then freezes slowly pries the two pieces of metal apart. This causes gaps between those layers to open up, braking the paint and then the corrosion sets in. There are locations under the car that show concerns at seams as well which will be addressed as much as possible but will ultimately be the car's demise. Corrosion like this can be significantly delayed by aftermarket treatments such as the old time rust proofing and undercoating. With how long the mechanical aspects of the car can be made to last, it might be time to see a resurgence of those products and services.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2017

But sometimes, if applied in a slapdash fashion, undercoating can plug vital drain holes and cause worse problems. I've also read where warranties might be in jeopardy due to aftermarket rustproofing applications.

thecardoc3 · September 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
But sometimes, if applied in a slapdash fashion, undercoating can plug vital drain holes and cause worse problems. I've also read where warranties might be in jeopardy due to aftermarket rustproofing applications.

Last time I checked, nothing is perfect. Yes drains can get clogged if the product is used too heavily, but that's a minor issue.

It's almost funny to think that the threat of voiding a rust through warranty might be in play. From my experience, the rust through warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on. When my Escape was four years old and still under 100K I took it to the selling dealer with this rusting already evident on one of the rear doors and the lift gate. They told me then that this wasn't a warranty issue and blamed it on road salts and tried to say that I didn't wash the car often enough. Well, it should be pretty obvious how well the exterior is maintained from the photo's at 8yrs, and now almost 230K.....

Rust like this can be significantly retarded with aftermarket products, at least to the point that I wouldn't be dealing with it like I am right now. My out of pocket cost is about $100 for the materials to address this and from there it's just my time. That's pretty cheap compared to the price of just one door (or skin).

thecardoc3 · September 2017

Saw a warning on the dash, you might recognize it.

So what's the right way to deal with this? Pull codes of course and I found P0442 small leak and P0455 Gross Leak /No Flow. Initial testing showed good purge valve flow so a gross leak was confirmed, but it was still necessary to locate the leak.

The easiest way to test this system is to lower the canister and remove the vent filter hose from the canister. Using an adapter you can then smoke the system, or just go ahead and start the engine and allow the purge valve to be operated by the PCM and draw the system into a vacuum.

Here is the set-up to test.

With the engine started the system easily drew vacuum.

And it held vacuum with the purge valve turned off. The only thing that was wrong was the canister vent valve wasn't sealing for testing.

So, a new solenoid was installed and the system retested using Ford's system test which passed.

thecardoc3 · September 2017

Here is how the doors looked when the first layer of paint and rust were removed.

You can't get it all, but if you get most of it out of the metal there are chemicals that really slow the oxidation down. Here is the door after pre treatment. It will get primed and painted next week.

Still have the passengers front door and the lift gate to do, then will be the hard part, the wheel wells.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2017

Are you optimistic about how long this repair will last? I have a feeling you're going to be meeting Mr. Rust again in a year or two.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

That is the way rust repair works. There is no stopping it, you can only slow it down. Now depending on how bad you let it get and how much you are willing to do when you do intervene you can make a big difference in a vehicle's useful lifespan. Addressing it like I am doing will make the difference between replacing the doors etc. in the future or making the originals last twenty years +/-

isellhondas · October 2017

Rust never sleeps.....remember?

Mr_Shiftright · October 2017

I get tired just looking at rust.

roadburner · October 2017

I wish I lived a bit further south, but even here you rarely see vehicles under 10 years old with any significant rust.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

Guess that's why they call us the rust belt.

guitarzan · October 2017

We have tons of road salt. The bottom of the 2000 Celica doors are like new. Good quality metal, and folding & welding process. (I do not wash my car at all.)

The quarters rusted from the inside-out due to the adhesive used to press panels together absorbing water. That's a big duh.

All of these car makers still treat us buyers like dolts. Perhaps we are, for not demanding change.

roadburner · October 2017

My 1999 Wrangler had a spot of rust on each front fender due to a built-in rust trap. My shop removed the trap and repaired the rust- so far no further issues. The fenders simply bolt on, so if it returns I'll have another option.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

My 94 Ranger was fully rust proofed and undercoated when it was purchased new and doesn't have any of the issues that my 2010 Escape is showing in regards to corrosion.

My daughters 2004 Rav4 is fine body wise but shows some growing concerns under the car. I had to replace the fuel tank straps two years ago.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2017

I think it depends on how the rust develops. If it is inside a seamed fender, (between layers of metal) that's bad. But if it's just in some cubbyhole that traps road moisture, it could be curtailed for a long time.

isellhondas · October 2017

A few years ago we had relatives visiting from Minnesota. They couldn't believe all of the "old" cars on the road that weren't rust buckets!

0patience · October 2017

Oregon is slowly trying to make the transition to salt.
Mostly using de-icer in Oregon, but they are pushing for salt, cause it costs less, according to the bean counters.
The problem is, they aren't the ones who work on it, so they don't see the damage.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

Your bean counters should see what it does to the vehicles, roads, and especially the bridges.

A number of years ago a shop owner in the town where my shop used to be got a visit from a guy who worked for the DEP. They had been testing a small run that goes through town and detected high levels of salt. This guy had papers written up and was accusing George of dumping salt into the run to which George responded to by walking out in front of his building and asked the guy to look to the right. "Tusca" road climbs about a three hundred feet in under half a mile and informed the DEP guy that the only people using any salt in that area was the state when they clear that hill during the winter.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

Back to the rust. Here are pictures after the arresting product sat overnight.

This is just one of the products out there that all do the same thing.
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81849-Treatment-10-25-Aerosol/dp/B000BKC25K/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

xwesx · October 2017

Looks good! Hopefully it will hold for you through its useful life.

Our state guys started using salting products here a few years ago for our transitional seasons. They used to only use gravel because it was generally too cold for de-icing to be effective. However, we get a lot more periods of relatively warm weather (within 10-20 degrees of freezing, sometimes above freezing) during the winter half of the year now than we once did. Apparently, they would rather cater to incompetent drivers than to those who prefer rust-free cars.

I didn't think to wash my steel cargo tray (hitch mounted) from last spring's run home in the Q7. I got home, unloaded it, and hung it up on the side of the shed. It was brand new at the start of that trip, so I basically used it for a week and then put it away. Last week, I walked by and noticed that it is terribly corroded.... just from whatever Canadian crud was caked on it imbibing moisture from the air and attacking the metal. I haven't looked too closely yet, but I may have to just throw it away. :@

andres3 · October 2017

thecardoc3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
But sometimes, if applied in a slapdash fashion, undercoating can plug vital drain holes and cause worse problems. I've also read where warranties might be in jeopardy due to aftermarket rustproofing applications.
Last time I checked, nothing is perfect. Yes drains can get clogged if the product is used too heavily, but that's a minor issue.

It's almost funny to think that the threat of voiding a rust through warranty might be in play. From my experience, the rust through warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on. When my Escape was four years old and still under 100K I took it to the selling dealer with this rusting already evident on one of the rear doors and the lift gate. They told me then that this wasn't a warranty issue and blamed it on road salts and tried to say that I didn't wash the car often enough. Well, it should be pretty obvious how well the exterior is maintained from the photo's at 8yrs, and now almost 230K.....

Rust like this can be significantly retarded with aftermarket products, at least to the point that I wouldn't be dealing with it like I am right now. My out of pocket cost is about $100 for the materials to address this and from there it's just my time. That's pretty cheap compared to the price of just one door (or skin).

Yeah, I'll keep Ford off my potential buy list. I've heard way too many, and I mean way too many stories like yours where the warranty is worthless. No company should make arguments to void a warranty without evidence of what they are claiming.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

xwesx said:
Looks good! Hopefully it will hold for you through its useful life.

If you look at the pics just after the product was applied, you can see that it overlaps the painted sections that were not stripped. The pics from the next day show that only the exposed metal sections, especially where the corrosion was turned black. The chemicals in the product cause a reaction with the metal that arrests the corrosion process and it will, provided that the corrosion is isn't very thick penetrate surface rust and stop it from proceeding. That chemical reaction didn't occur where the product overlapped the painted surfaces. What's really interesting about it is that it is easy to sand or scrape off in it's present condition but once primer and paint are applied the bond increases and becomes very durable.

xwesx said:

Last week, I walked by and noticed that it is terribly corroded.... just from whatever Canadian crud was caked on it imbibing moisture from the air and attacking the metal. I haven't looked too closely yet, but I may have to just throw it away.

You could use a product like this if the corrosion hasn't progressed too far yet. It will work better if you can remove the corrosion but will still have an impact if you don't.

xwesx · October 2017

I didn't see where you mentioned the name of the product, but it is this something I can pick up at a local auto parts store (NAPA, etc.)?

thecardoc3 · October 2017

Yes, parts stores that also carry body work supplies will usually have theseen products on hand. The one I use in an aerosol made by Permatex

thecardoc3 · October 2017

An update from Automotive News.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171023/RETAIL05/171029996/1434

For seven weeks over the summer, 2,000 service technicians went on strike at 129 new-vehicle dealerships in the Chicago area, seeking better pay and working conditions.
One dealer estimates the walkout cost his store hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost service revenue. Another calls the strike "unnecessary ... devastating" and says it left him "bitter."
Yet the terms of the strike's settlement deserve attention because they address challenges that confront all dealership service departments — not just unionized shops in one city — as they seek to recruit and retain productive technicians.
The stakes are higher than ever for dealerships in the competition for techs. As new-vehicle sales cool, fixed operations will account for a greater share of dealership profits in coming years. The chronic shortage of technicians will grow more acute as those now on the job retire.
And as the cars and trucks coming into the shop become ever more complex, the training and skills required of techs will have to be more sophisticated as well. So the status of service technicians becomes increasingly critical.

Tech portrait
The typical service technician at a new-vehicle dealership
Is a 40-year-old man

Has 19 years of tech experience, mostly at dealerships

Earned nearly $59,000 in 2015

Has been in his job for 3.6 years and expects to stay at his dealership for at least 3 more

Has a scheduled workweek of more than 42 hours

Spends most of his work time on diagnostics, vehicle maintenance and light repairs

Attended college and/or technical training

Would not recommend his career to a friend

Source: Carlisle & Co., National Automobile Dealers Association

Continued...

thecardoc3 · October 2017

Cont:

A face of the Chicago strike is Richard Madonia, a 23-year-old lube technician at Community Honda of Orland Park. He has held his entry-level job for nine months and expects to spend about two more years in a tech-training program sponsored by his union. Madonia notes that many fast-food workers in Chicago are paid better than he is. Still, he says he enjoys his work and wants to keep doing it — at least for now.

The strike settlement aims to enable dealerships to retain younger service workers such as Madonia by boosting the hourly pay of beginning lube techs from $9 to $11 and of semiskilled technicians from $11 to $13.
In the longer term, the contract includes a formal performance review after 24 months for semiskilled techs who seek apprenticeships — a vital next step on the technician career path. That's important, Madonia says.

"It's kind of hard to get locked into an apprenticeship because [the dealership is] going to have to guarantee you a position as a journeyman," he told Fixed Ops Journal. "So if the shop has a lot of journeymen, they're not really looking to hire apprentices."

The Chicago tech strike and its aftermath come at a time of turmoil for service technicians and the dealerships that employ them. The National Automobile Dealers Association's 2016 Dealership Workforce Study reported that one-fourth of techs leave their jobs each year.

The median job tenure for techs was 3.6 years, according to the NADA study. Only 1 percent of service techs were women.
Separately, a survey last year by the automotive consulting firm Carlisle & Co. asked more than 20,000 service technicians in the United States and Canada whether they would recommend their career to others. Their overall response: an emphatic no.
The greatest sources of job dissatisfaction identified by the survey respondents: their compensation (flat-rate pay plans were especially reviled) and a feeling that the dealership and automaker they work for don't properly value what they do.
"People are leaving in herds," says Dan Costley, a journeyman technician at Garber Fox Lake Toyota who took part in the Chicago strike. "The younger guys are seeing the career is not what it's cut out to be.
"I've got two friends who left in the past year and went back to college," he says. "Both are smart as whips, but they're done."
John Thompson is chairman of the automotive technology department at Pittsburg State University in Kansas, which offers one of the nation's top academic programs for training dealership service employees. He calls the employment climate for service techs "a disaster waiting to happen."
"We have an aging work force, and young men and women aren't trained and ready yet," Thompson says. "You're seeing it slowly unfold, but it will quickly unfold when more and more people retire."
Not all bad

The situation for techs is not utterly bleak. The NADA workforce study reported that the average dealership service technician earned nearly $59,000 in 2015 — a solid middle-class income. The most skilled and experienced techs command six-figure pay.
According to the Carlisle study, the average service tech is about 40 years old and has 19 years of shop experience. Despite their complaints, 70 percent of the technicians in the survey said they expected to work at their current dealership for at least the next three years.
Tim Richards, a 21-year-old apprentice tech at Elgin Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Ram, is the type of young worker the industry says it wants to nurture. He says being a service technician is the career for him.
"I've always worked on cars, and I'd build and race cars," he says. "Automotive is my niche. Why not make a career at something I'm good at?"
During and after the strike, Richards says he maintained his confidence that he will become a master technician someday.
"I didn't feel worried," he says, "because with my training and ability, I would have been able to progress faster."
The new contract in Chicago aims to respond to the concerns of veteran technicians as well as those of 18- to 34-year-old workers, who NADA says represent two-thirds of newly hired techs.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

And Cont:

But officials of Automobile Mechanics Local 701, the union that represents the striking service techs, concede they didn't get everything they wanted.

Cicinelli: "Not as good" for techs
Sam Cicinelli, the local's directing business representative, says the contract will guarantee technicians as much as 36 paid weekly hours of work, up from 34 — but the union wanted 40.
Cicinelli says most veteran technicians represented by the local work as much as 50 hours a week. But they often earn less because of the flat-rate system they work under, which pays experienced techs primarily by the repair job rather than the hour.
Contract provisions lengthening the guaranteed workweek and offering other incentives only partially relieve that disparity, Cicinelli says.
Technician Costley calls flat-rate pay "a prehistoric, barbaric way of paying. They should be paying at an hourly base," he says.
Pay gap
Richards, the youngest tech in his shop, says Chicago-area dealers have exploited poorly paid techs in the semiskilled category, which he argues should be eliminated.
"Would you rather pay the semiskilled worker $15 an hour or pay the journeyman $35 an hour for that brake flush?" Richards says.
He notes that the new contract reduces apprenticeships from 10 to five years. But service departments need to pay more attention to the quality of apprentice training, he says.
Apprentices should be formally partnered with journeymen, he suggests, "instead of being thrown into the industry as an apprentice and learning to do everything yourself."
Otherwise, the union's Cicinelli says, the contract makes gains for younger techs, "but it's still not as good compared to other trades and other jobs."
"Electricians make $18 to $20 an hour at the entry level," he says. "A plumber has a little bucket of wrenches to invest in, and we have a toolbox the size of a condominium."
Harold Santamaria, an instructor in the automotive technology program at Truman College in Chicago, says many of his tech students who "graduated and got a job said it wasn't as rewarding as they thought it could be."
Some talented students have worked as lube techs for four years without the prospect of advancement "because they did the job too well," he says.
Dealers speak
The Chicago dealers whose techs went on strike have complaints of their own. Greg Webb, a partner at Packey Webb Ford in Downers Grove, says the strike "cost the mechanics and us a lot of money, and neither of us is getting it back."
"The dealerships that weren't on strike had so much [service] business, they were turning it away," Webb says. "If some of my customers went to another Ford store and got taken care of properly, there's a real possibility they may not come back here."
Richard Fisher's seven dealerships in the Autobarn group endured the strike. He says the cost of the new contract will make it even harder for his company to stay competitive.
"The [pay] rates of all of our mechanics have gone up sharply," Fisher says. "Inevitably, the things we care about — giving great service to our customers and attracting young people to the business — will be stymied if our costs continue to climb."
Fisher and some other dealers worked to dissociate themselves from the dealership bargaining committee and cut their own deals with their striking techs. "We felt they were our guys first and union guys second, and we wanted to get them back to work," he says. "I felt bitter in the overall way [the strike] was managed by both sides. I feel, ultimately, the strike was unnecessary."
Even after the strike, industry observers say dealerships in Chicago and elsewhere aren't properly preparing their service departments and training their shop employees for innovations such as emerging electric and autonomous vehicles.
Steve Tomory, who teaches automotive technology at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif., predicts service technician training will need to become based more heavily on STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) topics. A tech's job, he says, "may become more of a salary-based position."
In Chicago and everywhere else, says Thompson of Pittsburg State, the primary responsibility for redefining the role of service technicians to accommodate a changing industry rests with dealers and automakers.
"The manufacturers will have to partner up with the dealers and say, 'How do we grow this work force?'" Thompson says.
Rob Gehring, a fixed operations consultant in Huron, Ohio, agrees.
"I have said technician is a good career many times," Gehring says. "But the attitude needs to change at the dealership and manufacturer level."
He adds: "I wouldn't be a technician."

0patience · October 2017

I was once asked when I knew I wanted to be a mechanic.
My reply was, "Make no mistake, I never wanted to be a mechanic.It was something that came natural and I was good at and I made way more money than a lot of college graduates."

My family ran fishing boats out of Alaska and it was cheaper for me to fix everything, than it was to fly a mechanic in and have it done, so really I learned out of necessity.

I had short stints at European import shop and a dealer and would never go back to automotive retail.
I'll agree that automotive retail techs are severely underpaid.
The problem I see now, is that there is problems all over retail work.
Training is severely lacking, costs of tooling is almost out of reach for a younger tech just getting into the industry and the starting pay is barely above McDonald's.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

0patience said:
I was once asked when I knew I wanted to be a mechanic.
My reply was, "Make no mistake, I never wanted to be a mechanic.It was something that came natural and I was good at and I made way more money than a lot of college graduates."

I agree with every bit of that except for the last part. Today I do just fine but in the early days that was absolutely not the case and there was no shortage of oppressions that served to make any young technician start questioning their own self worth. What I really should have done back then was hit the road and leave the career behind, but the stubborn side of me wouldn't let me quit and provided the incentive to study and learn everything that I possibly could in order to show the nay-sayers that they were wrong.

0patience said:

I had short stints at European import shop and a dealer and would never go back to automotive retail.

I could go back full time tomorrow if I had to. I still work the weekends but primarily handle the stuff that is beyond the average shop.

0patience said:

I'll agree that automotive retail techs are severely underpaid.
The problem I see now, is that there is problems all over retail work.
Training is severely lacking, costs of tooling is almost out of reach for a younger tech just getting into the industry and the starting pay is barely above McDonald's.

The training is out there if the techs are willing to make the investment. The real problem was all of the airtime given towards calling diagnostic fees rip-offs and every suggestion that someone could just tell anyone what was wrong with a given car right off the top of their head. That constant pressure to devalue the knowledge and training that the technicians had to acquire had very personal impacts on the techs who were committed to and trying to do the job the right way. It was that kind of behavior here in these very forums that I set out to address when I came here for the first time.

When I read that article that is linked and reposted above I see them finally starting to openly address issues that have been around for my entire forty year career as a technician. To get techs to attend training and improve themselves there has to be a tangible reward and that still isn't there except for about 1% of the people in the trade. Even then to really "make-it" one has to stop being a technician so everyone should wonder, why even bother starting out as one?

0patience · October 2017

thecardoc3 said:

The training is out there if the techs are willing to make the investment. The real problem was all of the airtime given towards calling diagnostic fees rip-offs and every suggestion that someone could just tell anyone what was wrong with a given car right off the top of their head. That constant pressure to devalue the knowledge and training that the technicians had to acquire had very personal impacts on the techs who were committed to and trying to do the job the right way. It was that kind of behavior here in these very forums that I set out to address when I came here for the first time.

When I read that article that is linked and reposted above I see them finally starting to openly address issues that have been around for my entire forty year career as a technician. To get techs to attend training and improve themselves there has to be a tangible reward and that still isn't there except for about 1% of the people in the trade. Even then to really "make-it" one has to stop being a technician so everyone should wonder, why even bother starting out as one?

The training part was one reason I didn't stay in automotive.
Most fleets pay for the training, while the retail shops I worked left it to the techs to find and pay for.
My opinion of that was, if I'm making money for you and investing $50k in tools, then the company should be footing the bill for training.

While I do find a lot of training myself and still pay for some, it is because I want that specific training and it wasn't expensive and spending the time trying to justify it to bean counters wasn't worth the effort.

First the techs have to want to put out the effort to do the training and next, the company has to be willing to foot the bill and allow the time. Until both things happen, it's gonna be a dead end road.

I once sent in a vehicle to a shop to have some work done, automotive vehicles, while still my responsibility, are not my priority, so often get sent to shops.
The tech and I went over the symptoms and when we got done, he asked me what I thought.
I told him that what I think is irrelevant. He's the tech. I'm not gonna put that on him, cause one, I know he knows what he's doing and two, I could be totally wrong in what I think. Until the testing is done, my thought is only a guess.

thecardoc3 · October 2017

Some of the most difficult work that I take on is also often the most rewarding these days. I went to a shop in Springfield Mass because they had a VW that would barely run. It only took twenty minutes to walk the tech through the routine and then using the scope and pressure transducer proved beyond any doubt that the thing had jumped time. Then we went to a second vehicle and confirmed that it had not jumped time and the failure on that car was actually caused by the installation of an inferior part.

BTW you might wonder what I was doing in Springfield Mass. I travel around the country providing the training classes that techs need to attend and while I am out on the road I do mobile diagnostics with the goal of both solving the nightmare for the tech and shop while at the same time provide one on one hands on training. Sometimes it takes less than twenty minutes to guide the tech to the answers that were alluding them, sometimes it can take a lot longer......

thecardoc3 · October 2017

This should be interesting.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20171016/WEBINAR03/310169938/overcoming-your-technician-crisis

Webinar Summary
The technician shortage for automotive dealerships is real. For the industry, the crisis is bound to get worse. But there are steps you can take to solve the problem at your shop.

This webinar will cover the reasons for the shortage and spell out how dealerships can combat it.

The customer is the reason your service department exists. You’re wrong if you believe you can allow your
customers to wait several weeks for service because you don’t have enough technicians. If your customer has to wait more than a few days for service, you have a technician shortage.

Attend this webinar to:

• Get a checklist to evaluate your operation and determine ways you can improve efficiency.
• Learn a new, surgical approach to overcome your technician shortage immediately.
• Develop a Technician Bill of Rights that will help you attract and retain technicians.
• Create a culture of communication and ongoing training that will include your advisers, technicians and parts department.

Presenter
Rob Gehring
President
Fixed Performance Inc.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2017

Are you going it listen in on it?

thecardoc3 · October 2017

I might get to, not sure how busy I will be.

thecardoc3 · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
Are you going it listen in on it?

I didn't get to listen to it live, but finally got to this morning from the archive. It was refreshing when one of the listeners asked if they (management) are actually the problem to which the short and sweet answer was yes.

The featured speaker talked about doing things like additional compensation for hours that are spent doing warranty work to try and make up for the lost wages due to how little time is getting paid on warranty jobs as compared to the same job at customer pay rates. End of year bonuses, vacation time, tool expenses, and an entire list of things that make being a technician a less than desirable career choice. For the tech who is playing beat the clock every second of the day to be surrounded by people who are supposed to be supporting them that how long it takes them to do something isn't a factor the aggravation and stress often becomes too much to cope with for what works out to be pedestrian wages at the end of the day.

They left a lot of issues undiscussed, but it did get them started on a decent path towards maybe making some progress. The strike in Chicago featured significantly at several points including establishing a forty hour guarantee each week. (techs are still usually clocked in for fifty or more but again that's a start)

0patience · November 2017

thecardoc3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Are you going it listen in on it?
End of year bonuses, vacation time, tool expenses, and an entire list of things that make being a technician a less than desirable career choice.

The strike in Chicago featured significantly at several points including establishing a forty hour guarantee each week. (techs are still usually clocked in for fifty or more but again that's a start)

Again, these are things that are glaringly different between heavy duty and automotive.
Most heavy duty techs receive most of what you listed, with exception of the yearly bonuses.
And that mostly depends on the company. I worked at one place that did give bonuses and most others didn't.

How automotive techs can keep ahead of the game on a constant basis is beyond me.
I've never been a fan of flat rate.
If you are in a shop that doesn't have a good support system (parts, cleaning, service writer, etc), the tech loses.

thecardoc3 · December 2017

This one is for all of the times that a tech and/or service advisor was caught doing needless upsells and the dealer played "innocent victim".

http://www.autonews.com/article/20171128/RETAIL07/171129743/1147

Eight technicians at a New Jersey Ford dealership won a legal settlement last week in a wage dispute that claimed Chinese workers were hired at a lower hourly wage and starting salary than U.S. employees.

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission filed a lawsuit against Cherry Hill Ford in U.S. District Court in New Jersey for paying Chinese technicians a starting wage of $9 per hour, while non-Chinese technicians would start at $12 or $13 an hour despite "inferior or no electrical or auto body work experience."

According to the lawsuit filed on Sept. 30, 2016, when emergency accessory and installations technician Ping Zhang discovered the wage difference and complained to management, he was brought to a meeting where leadership "cursed at him and threatened that if he sought legal advice he would be out of a job."

Dealership group Charles S. Winner Inc. will pay $150,000 in back wages and damages to the technicians for wage discrepancies dating back to 2010.

The matter was resolved in a three-year consent decree, which in addition to redeeming the lost wages will require Winner Ford to implement an anti-discrimination policy to all employees, and require at least four hours of training on discrimination laws at the dealership.

Winner Ford attorney Elizabeth Walker with Campbell, Lipski & Dochney, of Philadelphia, sent a statement on behalf of the group denying the allegations, asserting a settlement was reached for a mutual desire of the EEOC and Winner Ford to resolve the issue.

"Winner did not agree with the complaint or any alleged allegations in the complaint," the statement said. "However an agreement to avoid the cost and time involved with continuing litigation was agreed between the EEOC and Winner."

andres3 · December 2017

Possible causes of brake "grinding/friction" noise even when the brake pedal isn't depressed after a track weekend on OEM pads?

roadburner · December 2017

Cracked/deteriorated friction material, foreign object(s) in friction material...

A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles