Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy · January 2018

way too expensive. Because it is jut a boring car, not a collectible. and only 800 miles a year? I would worry about that being too low. Wonder if it every broke 50 mph?

pensfan83 · January 2018

We're going to be in Cincinnati MLK weekend and from what my sister told me that's when they would like to make a move on getting a new SUV and parking their Enclave. I would say with almost certainty they are going to end up with a Q7 but I convinced my BIL they should strongly consider an XC90 as well so we're going to hit up a Volvo dealer as well.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2018

tjc78 said:
Here is an interesting one...
How do you put a true value on it.

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/13000-miles-toyota-corolla/6446376988.html

I'd put a value of about $5500 on it. That's about double-book, so how much more generous can you get?

28firefighter · January 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

Here is an interesting one...
How do you put a true value on it.

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/13000-miles-toyota-corolla/6446376988.html
I'd put a value of about $5500 on it. That's about double-book, so how much more generous can you get?

But. It should be in a museum, so how do you put a number on that?

stickguy · January 2018

ask the museum that wants one what they will pay. Assuming you can find one.

roadburner · January 2018

While my enthusiasm for the current Mustang has cooled dramatically, I am intrigued by the rumors concerning the 2018 Bullitt. Pricing will probably kill my enthusiasm yet again...

qbrozen · January 2018

28firefighter said:

But. It should be in a museum, so how do you put a number on that?

No museum will ever care about a '99 Corolla. The only use this thing has now is for a teenager to use it up. Shifty says 5500, and I'd say that is MAX. I'd feel like breaking $5k is a mortal sin.

stickguy · January 2018

it is a novelty, and a time capsule. But it is not a particularly good modern car. And certainly well short on features you would expect now. So yes, a good cheap car option to use up.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2018

I was pricing it against other very clean, used Japanese cars of good reputation--so I was looking at it strictly as a used car you would buy and use every day until it wore out.

It'll never be a classic, not in 100 years. You can still buy 100 year old Model T Fords for very little money and that's how this car is going to end up, IMO.

Actually there might be one museum that would be interested:

http://designenvy.aiga.org/museum-of-the-ordinary-new-york-city/

28firefighter · January 2018

I was mostly making fun of the ad.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2018

Me, too!

ab348 · January 2018

@sb55 , despite dodging the bad weather en route to the south, you got out of the northeast just in time. Enjoy the soon-to-be warm weather in your winter haven!

fintail · January 2018

Best part of the Corolla ad:

Was this factory trim, or a dealer special? I think I've seen that stuff on period Camry, too. Seems right from the land of padded vinyl tops and vogue tires.

kyfdx · January 2018

@sb55 Geez... I would have waited for better weather.

tifighter · January 2018

@sb55 You are crazy, but crazy can be fun. Enjoy-what else can you do?

nyccarguy · January 2018

Hi everybody. It has been a crazy couple of weeks since we too delivery of our 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD. I've got some initial impressions that I'd like to share with you.

As @stickguy pointed out, the only 2 things shared in common with our former 2011 Pilot EXL w/ Navi is the fact that it is a Honda Pilot. This guy is big. Longer & wider (just what all 'muricans want). It takes some getting used to. The night we picked it up, it was raining and foggy outside. The ride home from the dealership was 30 minutes of back roads. Neve racking (and not fun) to say the least. We even stopped for dinner at a restaurant that was "valet parking only." I pulled up and told the guy that I literally just picked this rig up from the dealership. I just can't let you... The guy was cool and directed me to a nice spot on the end away from the other cars.

Our '11 Pilot didn't feel like such a big rig from behind the wheel. This one makes you question how close you are to the left or right side of the lane (or road). I definitely CANNOT fit another vehicle in our garage if the Pilot is parked inside.

One article I read (either C&D or TTAC) said that this current iteration of the Pilot is as close as you can get to a Minivan without the sliding doors. That's accurate. It has "Minivan Seats" that are upright with an adjustable armrest on the side. There is a MASSIVE console in-between the driver and passenger. I'm a skinny guy (5'10" 160 lbs) and it has taken a while to get comfortable. The front is very minivan-ish as is the raked windshield. The back (3/4 rear view) of the Pilot reminds me of the MB GLS.

The exterior and interior are finished very nicely. Panel gaps are laser precise. Interior materials are nicely finished. ZERO squeaks or rattles. The heated seats, remote start, power tail gate, and keyless go are all wonderful features.

Current mileage is 944. We've taken our new Pilot on a short New Year's road trip to Kalahari Resorts (indoor water park in Pocono Mountains, PA) and I've driven it the last 2 days back and forth to 2 of my older son's travel hockey games to Norwich CT (1 hr, 45 minutes away) and Northford, CT (1hr away). The new Pilot SHINES on the highway. You wouldn't believe this car is rolling on 20" wheels. I'm so happy I crunched the numbers and opted for the Touring this time. I LOVE the adaptive cruise control (ACC). It really reduces driver fatigue on highway trips when there is a lot of volume of cars on the road (not necessarily traffic). Once it slows down to 18 mph, the ACC automatically shuts off.

Cargo space is another big plus. I bought a 24" Toro Snowblower from Home Depot the day before a big storm hit and fit it behind the 2nd row of seats along with "a couple" of things my wife had me stop at Costco for. You guys all know why "a couple" is in quotes.

Saturday, one of the Moms asked me to drive her son up to the game in Norwich (about 1 hr 45 minutes away). He's the goalie, so in addition to his "regular" hockey bag & my son's bag, he has a second bag for goalie equipment that doesn't fit in the hockey bag, plus his pads and 2 sticks. On the way home, I ended up taking another kid back with us. The Pilot swallowed all the gear without issue. I'm glad I didn't have my Infiniti.

The integrated BluRay player is fantastic. We drove back and forth to PA and didn't hear a peep from the kids. Same thing with the hockey games. Boys watched "Mall Cop" & "Home Alone 2." It comes with wireless headphones that allow the driver to listen to music and not have to listen to the movie.

I was hesitant about buying a Pilot with the 9 Speed AT because of some problems I read about (performance and reliability). So far, so good. The transmission shifts so smooth that you don't know what gear you are in once you take off. It isn't a HEMI powered Durango, but the Pilot's V6 is smooth and strong. I don't know why so many people are violently opposed to the Auto Stop/Start feature. The car shuts off & there is a slight vibration when it turns back on.

So far, we are very pleased with our purchase. There are a few gripes that I'd like to throw out there.

The brakes. Much more pedal travel than I'm used to. They seem adequate at best.

The lack of a volume knob bothers me. I use the steering wheel controls, but my wife doesn't like not having a volume knob.

Apple Car Play. SO far, I do like it, BUT it will NOT use WAZE through my iPhone. If I had an Android, then I could use WAZE. What gives?

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

sb55 · January 2018

kyfdx said:

@sb55 Geez... I would have waited for better weather.

We had to be flexible and had a 5 day window to get out in order to make it to Georgia for MLK weekend. We picked the first available day and are glad that we did.
We trusted Accuweather. Unfortunately the forecast was changing hourly and this deep freeze hung on.
1 more day until above freezing even at night.
Can’t wait!

stickguy · January 2018

Apple is stubborn and proprietary. It’s Apple maps or nothing.

Good summary. I felt the same way about loaner MDX. Like an oversized RDX, but just too big and bulky to drive normally with comfort.

And Honda is notorious for undersized brakes on their big vehicles

ab348 · January 2018

@nyccarguy - Good review but I'm surprised by your comments about the size/minivan feel and the various sorts of fallout from that. Wouldn't that have been evident during a test drive?

corvette · January 2018

tjc78 said:

Here is an interesting one...
How do you put a true value on it.

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/13000-miles-toyota-corolla/6446376988.html

Price is too high, but I bet someone will give close to $5,000 for it based on mileage, condition, and it being a Toyota. A miled-up, beat-up one would probably bring $2,500 or so.

nyccarguy · January 2018

@ab348

im not saying the size is a bad thing. It's just something I'm going to have to get used to.

Dont forget, my preference for daily drivers is Road rocket sport sedans like my Q40 & your ATS.

suydam · January 2018

ab348 said:
@nyccarguy - Good review but I'm surprised by your comments about the size/minivan feel and the various sorts of fallout from that. Wouldn't that have been evident during a test drive?

Very interesting driving review! Congrats on the purchase. I’m surprised you compare its size to a minivan. When our kids were young I drove minivans for 15 years and they never felt big. For one thing, they weren’t all that wide. This sounds more like the large SUVs from Ford or GM. if that’s what you want then that’s fine.

Does this Pilot have its own built-in Nav? I find I’m using the Volt’s Nav more and more. It’s a great interface and street names and such show up right on my dashboard as well.

The brake feel sounds like some Toyotas I’ve driven. They can have a long pedal feel but they actually stop just fine. It was a little unnerving until I got used to it.

I’m sure you’ll enjoy it’s utility especially with the weather you’re having there.

nyccarguy · January 2018

@suydam

Thanks for the congrats on the purchase. Yes, my Pilot has built in Navigation. It is standard as part of the Touring trim which includes (among other things): Navigation, Rear Blu Ray Player, & Honda Sensing.

I've used Apple Maps a few times. Does it automatically reroute you due to traffic conditions like WAZE does?

stickguy · January 2018

Apple maps should do that.

As to minivans, I always found the odyssey to drive smaller than it really was. Combo of low, short hood, not super wide, and slab sides with big windows. So you could really see what was going on, and what was around you. The MDX was just more enveloping, in a sense, and harder to place where you wanted it.

28firefighter · January 2018

Apple Maps should do that, but my personal experience is that it does not do it especially well.

pensfan83 · January 2018

Good review @nyccarguy and although it sounds like adjusting to the larger proportions may still be a work in progress, the Pilot is doing exactly what you bought it for.

corvette · January 2018

Rode in my coworker’s Kia Rio last Friday evening after an after-work outing. I’m not sure what model year it is, but it had manual locks and windows! I thought the power stuff had been standard for a long time!

tjc78 · January 2018

fintail said:
Best part of the Corolla ad:

Was this factory trim, or a dealer special? I think I've seen that stuff on period Camry, too. Seems right from the land of padded vinyl tops and vogue tires.

That had to be dealer, along with the gold trim and wood accents.

On that theme... I saw a Caddy CTS Coupe the other day with a carriage top and whitewalls. I'm not joking

Mr_Shiftright · January 2018

Another Collector Edition:

rayainsw · January 2018

nyccarguy - Congrats on the Pilot -
- Ray
Enjoy !

breld · January 2018

@nyccarguy - thanks for the write-up on the Pilot. Sounds like it's perfect for your family needs - having the room to accommodate your kids, friends and all that hockey stuff is great! 'Cause you know that's not ending anytime soon.

I agree with the minivan comparison - when we had our Odyssey, I test drove a Pilot and a Highlander, and decided they felt and drove very similar to the minivan. Now, that's not a bad thing whatsoever - they are very smooth and competent. I just lost interest in sacrificing the functionality of the van for something no more engaging to drive, and that's when we ended up going with Minivan round 2 with the Kia Sedona.

So with the Pilot, you get something with most of the functionality of a minivan (sans the sliding doors), plus AWD, and, let's face it, arguably a more desirable body style.

The new Pilot does catch my eye on the road and I do think about going that way sometimes, just for the "Honda-ness" and for a change if nothing else. And I'm pretty sure it's every bit as quick as my Durango, but I think I'd miss the overall character and feel of the Dodge.

I'm curious to try out an MDX Sport Hybrid once some used example start showing up. C&D was very positive in its reviews.

stickguy · January 2018

Might feel like a minivan, but definitely smaller inside. I think an odyssey has about 50% more cargo room.

rny421 · January 2018

I test drove a 2015 Acura TLX today. 2015, 4-cylinder, White exterior, black interior. It was much nicer than I expected. It was definitely a step up from the TSX. It had enough pep, and was quiet and complaint on the road. I am pleasantly surprised. My biggest hesitation is the complaints, even about the 8-speed DCT that is in the 4 cylinder. I thought that transmission was better refined? Would I be buying a ticking time bomb like the GM CVTs or the 4-speed GM transmission used in the T6 XC90s?

As of now, it’s between the Jetta and TLX. The TLX is nicer, has more features, presumably better resale, but more expensive up front, and there is the question about the transmission. The Jetta is decent in it’s own right, missing some nice-to-have features, but is a relative steal.

I’m interested in these two TLXs, which both seem like fair deals to me. The black one has less miles, but needs to have the side panel on the driver’s seat replaced, or at least discounted in order to replace it myself. What do you guys think?

Black TLX

White TLX

breld · January 2018

I like the Jetta and what it has to offer - we've owned a couple of them. But I'd say go with the TLX ALL DAY LONG!

I didn't realize they had come down so much in price on the used market. I drove the 4 cylinder model soon after it came out, and was impressed. The current Jetta has been around since the 2011 model year, so is certainly starting to feel a bit dated. While the TLX was just refreshed, it's still a current model and I think will feel "fresh" for years to come. And really, while the TLX may receive some fair criticism when compared to the other entry-level luxury sedans, it certainly compares favorably against the Jetta.

Seeing those prices, the TLX may have just made it on my short list for the replacement of my stepdaughter's Jetta lease at the end of this year.

xwesx · January 2018

As far as your model options, I'm curious why you have Jetta so high on the list, and have not included Passat? IIRC, values for those are pretty comparable to Jetta, and they are highly refined, relatively compact transportation.

rny421 · January 2018

@breld - Well, I must admit - I'm a sucker for a good deal, and those vehicles are 6 hours away from me. But, I purchased my Sky and S60 out of state, so I'm used to it. As I know you have done, if you're willing to do a little road trip, you can often save thousands. I understand that most people aren't willing to do this, but I'm at the stage in my life where I can spend a whole day driving, and it's worth it for me.

@xwesx - Although they're similar, the Passat doesn't quite appeal to me. Not that I love the Jetta styling, I'm more in love with solid, quality feeling you get for your so little buck with the Jetta. I do remember having a 2012 as a rental with the 2.5L 5-cylinder was a DOG. I know they have since changed the engines, and I'm sure the newer models have more pep.

andres3 · January 2018

28firefighter said:

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

Sometimes customers are just difficult to work with. I rail on dealers who want to “grind” (and I refuse to deal with them). Sometimes, there are customers who will do the same (and knowing my neighbor, he’s one of them).
My "favorite" grinder at my store was a well known TV personality who fought tooth and nail over $20/month on his wife's X3 lease. This after a salesperson and I spent over two hours helping said wife find the "right" vehicle in 96 degree weather the day before.

This stuff makes me insane. Especially when I’m helping friends. I have no interest in a transaction where folks feel disrespected. I like a great deal, but if I don’t think it’s doable as a deal where everyone leaves happy, I don’t even bother.
$20/mo. is $700. Every time a salesperson says, "You aren't going to lose this deal over $20, are you?", I tell them to write me a check for $700, and we are good to go.

A car dealer will grind you for that last $100. I'm not a grinder. If you meet my price, we'll have a deal. But, I won't feel sorry for you, for having to work outside when it's hot.

I have a problem with either side grinding. I usually just walk away if that’s where it is headed.

When I bought the Alltrack, I think the dealership was more guilty of grinding for the last $300 than I, or my wife was.

We'd of been OK getting the more expensive Outback at $1,000 under invoice. They just insisted on that last $300 too long, and almost lost the deal (and probably should have), but I'm actually glad they didn't. The Alltrack has been fairly flawless and hit over 10,000 miles recently. Only defect it might have is the heater seems to be at 10% when it's at 0% setting, and perhaps 20% at 10%. It seems to be on unless the AC is on.

The TTS has been great besides that one hiccup. Just crossed 20,000 miles on that one. The Kia is churning along at perfect pace for 36,000 miles in 36 months. I'm on month 17, and yes, I'm counting.

Michaell · January 2018

andres3 said:

kyfdx said:

roadburner said:

Sometimes customers are just difficult to work with. I rail on dealers who want to “grind” (and I refuse to deal with them). Sometimes, there are customers who will do the same (and knowing my neighbor, he’s one of them).
My "favorite" grinder at my store was a well known TV personality who fought tooth and nail over $20/month on his wife's X3 lease. This after a salesperson and I spent over two hours helping said wife find the "right" vehicle in 96 degree weather the day before.

This stuff makes me insane. Especially when I’m helping friends. I have no interest in a transaction where folks feel disrespected. I like a great deal, but if I don’t think it’s doable as a deal where everyone leaves happy, I don’t even bother.
$20/mo. is $700. Every time a salesperson says, "You aren't going to lose this deal over $20, are you?", I tell them to write me a check for $700, and we are good to go. A car dealer will grind you for that last $100. I'm not a grinder. If you meet my price, we'll have a deal. But, I won't feel sorry for you, for having to work outside when it's hot.

I have a problem with either side grinding. I usually just walk away if that’s where it is headed.
When I bought the Alltrack, I think the dealership was more guilty of grinding for the last $300 than I, or my wife was. We'd of been OK getting the more expensive Outback at $1,000 under invoice. They just insisted on that last $300 too long, and almost lost the deal (and probably should have), but I'm actually glad they didn't. The Alltrack has been fairly flawless and hit over 10,000 miles recently. Only defect it might have is the heater seems to be at 10% when it's at 0% setting, and perhaps 20% at 10%. It seems to be on unless the AC is on. The TTS has been great besides that one hiccup. Just crossed 20,000 miles on that one. The Kia is churning along at perfect pace for 36,000 miles in 36 months. I'm on month 17, and yes, I'm counting.

I created an Excel formula that tells me exactly how many miles I should have on my car on any given day.

For 12,000 miles per year, that works out to 32.88 miles a day. Today is day 507 of the lease = 16,670 miles.

My odometer is at 78xx at the moment. Gotta find a way to chew up those miles.

tbirdmarco · January 2018

@stickguy nice list of CUVS! shore you will add sum mor to the list! and hoping your wife likes one of them and wants one!

tbirdmarco · January 2018

@sb55 happy new year safe travails sounds like a lot of fun!

corvette · January 2018

xwesx said:

As far as your model options, I'm curious why you have Jetta so high on the list, and have not included Passat? IIRC, values for those are pretty comparable to Jetta, and they are highly refined, relatively compact transportation.

You make a good point. The Passat is a super comfortable cruiser.

tbirdmarco · January 2018

@tjc78 boring Toyota! agree with others in hear good for young kid or person that neads an car cheep to get around!

ab348 · January 2018

rny421 said:
I test drove a 2015 Acura TLX today. 2015, 4-cylinder, White exterior, black interior. It was much nicer than I expected. It was definitely a step up from the TSX. It had enough pep, and was quiet and complaint on the road. I am pleasantly surprised. My biggest hesitation is the complaints, even about the 8-speed DCT that is in the 4 cylinder. I thought that transmission was better refined? Would I be buying a ticking time bomb like the GM CVTs or the 4-speed GM transmission used in the T6 XC90s?

The problem Volvo had with the 4T65 was that it was mated to a turbo engine in a heavy vehicle that maxed out the transmission's torque capacity. They also had problems with the Aisin 6-speed that followed it. I'm unaware of any GM CVT.

The trans issues on the TLX 8-speed were mostly endemic to a DCT. Apparently software programming can help to some extent but driving a DCT is always going to feel different and usually less refined than a torque converter automatic. I understand the 8-speed is a Honda-designed transmission, for better or worse.

corvette · January 2018

rny421 said:

@breld - Well, I must admit - I'm a sucker for a good deal, and those vehicles are 6 hours away from me. But, I purchased my Sky and S60 out of state, so I'm used to it. As I know you have done, if you're willing to do a little road trip, you can often save thousands. I understand that most people aren't willing to do this, but I'm at the stage in my life where I can spend a whole day driving, and it's worth it for me. @xwesx - Although they're similar, the Passat doesn't quite appeal to me. Not that I love the Jetta styling, I'm more in love with solid, quality feeling you get for your so little buck with the Jetta. I do remember having a 2012 as a rental with the 2.5L 5-cylinder was a DOG. I know they have since changed the engines, and I'm sure the newer models have more pep.

Yeah, or you can wait for a local-ish dealer to have a good deal. That’s what I did with the Mustang.

The 2.5 in the Passat is kind of a dog, I haven’t driven the newer turbos, but they have to be better. It’s a good cruiser even with the 2.5.

tbirdmarco · January 2018

@nyccarguy nice rite up on your new rig that you have had for an few weeks!

Sandman6472 · January 2018

Must be a bad week for me with tires. Driving to maintenance today a Sentra which needed front tires. About 1/2 way there, we hear thus strange noise and then boom, the hubcaps flies off and the tire blows. We pull over, tire is flat and the hubcaps us in the road and cars and trucks flatten it into a pancake within minutes!! Had to call roadside and about two hours later, saw the tow truck loading it up as we went by it. This all happened on I-75.
Last Friday, picked up a body damaged vehicle in Miami going to Ft. Lauderdale maintenance. The damage is right over the front passenger tire. Pull the car out and start to drive. Feels wonky so hit the brakes, car pulls to the left violently. Call my lead driver and tell him vehicle is undeliverable. Says to drive it up front. I start and go over a speed bump and gear a loud noise, steering wheel here's to the left. Hit brakes but nothing and am going into a cross street. Instincts tell me to pull up the emergency brake and it stops the vehicle. My heart was pumping nicely by now! Call my lead again and say ya better get back here as I need help. Get out of the Sentra, a brand new 2017 model with only a bit over 600 miles, and the wheel/tire is at an angle!! Huh?? He helps me get it back into a parking space and he brings the keys back inside and says they need to have it towed.
I seem to always get the vehicles with the exploding or bad tires it seems. But just another day at work I guess. We were laughing while waiting to get picked up that we never have a boring day with each different than the one before. Still, loving this job so much!!!

The Sandman

stickguy · January 2018

I do like the TLX. very good seats! not sure what to think about those units. The 8 speed does not bother me. Just the price. Those are both base cars. So no Navi, no BLIS. And no spare tire! Not sure if missing anything else important, though those are important items. For comparison, you could buy a brand new updates 2018 for probably upper 20s (sticker I think is maybe 32k?) Still need the tech package though to get the nice options.

great car though. Just don't drive a 4 and V6 back to back, if you like power. The V6 is a rocket. the 4 though has nice balance.

kyfdx · January 2018

@Michaell

Have the wife drive the Jetta to work, occasionally?

fintail · January 2018

One good thing about this area - that type of personalization is quite rare. When I see it on a car, I am pretty certain the car, like so many people here, is a recent transplant.

I've seen a few Camry with the "full Florida" here.

tjc78 said:

That had to be dealer, along with the gold trim and wood accents.

On that theme... I saw a Caddy CTS Coupe the other day with a carriage top and whitewalls. I'm not joking

tifighter · January 2018

Michaell said:

I created an Excel formula that tells me exactly how many miles I should have on my car on any given day.

For 12,000 miles per year, that works out to 32.88 miles a day. Today is day 507 of the lease = 16,670 miles.

My odometer is at 78xx at the moment. Gotta find a way to chew up those miles.

Okay, I've created all sorts of car spreadsheets over the years and I've never thought of doing that one. Respect.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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