Cougar Support Group - Chats On...

fish8 · February 2001

I am with Daexpert. This is my second american car and probably my last for awhile. It's not because of the lack the "S", but because of the poor quality of the vehicle. I think burnsmr4 will back me up on this. People at work as what kind of car I drive and I tell them. A commen response from some is: " Nice car, but kind of tinny". I think to myself: ' Tinny? I don't think it's tinny' Then I get in my car and hear all the creaks, rattles and other mysterious noises. OK it's tinny!!!!! I still like my car, but I shouldn't have to have the radio turned way up to cover the rattles and other noises. Thank goodness I love the styling. Sorry for the rant!!!!

badulah · February 2001

Although I sympathize with the rattles you are experiencing, I don't think "Tinny" is a good description for the Cougar. I find your average Civic "tinny". Thin doors, echoey interior, spartan interior design, and lack of personality are Characteristics of "tinny" to me.

Just my humble opinion.

fish8 · February 2001

I guess it dependes on how you define tinny. I think tinny is defined as: rattles, creaks and other noises. I do see your point though. A civic may sound tinny, but minus all the rattles.

badulah · February 2001

Actually Kate's 98 Civic rattles like a tin can. She has one rattle that is so annoying that even the stereo on full blast doesn't mask it. She has taken it to Honda several times, but they can't duplicate it (sound familiar?). I plan to go with her next time and make sure they not only "duplicate it" but also repair it.

fish8 · February 2001

I never said Honda's don't rattle. My Cougar has just rattled more than any other car I have ever owned. Just my experience!!

stxrx7 · February 2001

I just got a peek at Mercury's latest (snicker) model. It looks like the car for the guy who just wrapped his Impala SS around a tree. It seems the Mercury bean counters have R&D by the balls again. It's only going to get worse now. Why put more money into a dead cat (sorry, I couldn't resist) when you can produce all those wonderful Mountaineers? No one wants an original design anymore. Haven't you heard that SUVs are just the rage now? The one good thing Mercury has done is the Cougar and they are killing it. "The Coug" better have nine lives - the auto shows are making obvious it will need every last nine of them. It is painfully obvious that Mercury is satisfied to remain a "Me Too" brand.

burnsmr4 · February 2001

Folks,

You have until the end of the day on Friday, February 16 to express some opinions to the automotive press regarding your dissatisfaction with the lack of SVT-like support for the Cougar.

AutoWeek's latest Fast Poll (from the issue with the Toyota hybrid car/truck/whatever on the cover) asks what the next SVT product should be from FMC.

Send your submissions, including daytime telephone number and address, to the following e-mail address:

awpoll@crain.com (someone confirm this, if you don't mind)

This isn't meant to step on any FMC contacts' toes -- just might be fun to see if AW prints anything. Remember -- send an e-mail tonight to get it in for consideration.

Regards,
burnsmr

burnsmr4 · February 2001

I've been reading car magazines for nearly 10 years now (some have read them much longer, I'm sure), and I've always found the word "tinny" used when referring to engine noise.

A "tinny" sound experience in a car was usually found in cars like the Civic, Sephia, Elantra, etc. 4-bangers with little or no noise reduction and high-revs for acceleration.

Interestingly, the "thunk" of a door on a car has always served as a benchmark by which the automotive press measures the build quality of a car. High-end Japanese luxury cars with a solid "thunk" are always preferred, for example, over cheapo American sounds whose closing doors bring out rattles and other strange sounds.

Just my two cents.

camelard · February 2001

The address you gave for the fast poll seems to be accurate. However the Auto Week sites current fast poll is "How will Dodge do in the upcoming NASCAR season?"

I made the assumption that there is a timing disconnect between the Mag and the Web and sent an e-mail re: the next SVT anyway.

camelard · February 2001

To me tinny is what my 78 Celica GT was. You had to slam the doors to close them and they had very little weight. The doors on my Cat are very weighty and close solidly with little effort, therefore I don't consider the car at all tinny. No rattles either mind you.

fish8 · February 2001

I envy all of you that have Cougars that don't rattle!!!!

OK, the Cougar may not be "tinny", but my Cat surely could use something to quell(sp) the dash noises.

Is anyone in here interested in the Focus SVT? I'm just curious. Since the "S" is no longer an option, the SVT Focus seems to be the best low price "bang for the buck" alternative. I bet that thing would be a hoot to drive. At $19,000, it seems like a good deal. It's a little to small for me(since the baby is on the way), but I bet Ford will have a difficult time keeping them on the lot.

badulah · February 2001

Due to the recent disappointing announcements from FMC I have been thinking about what my next car will be. Since there is no "S" coming out I was left with nothing in my price range that interested me. After several days of surfing the net, talking to friends, and cruising dealer lots, I have come up with two choices: The BMW 323 (top of the line sports edition) and the VW GTI GLX VR6. The BMW is slightly out of my price range, but I really do like it. The VW is a more realistic choice. I like it's "Chunky-but-funky" look, its performance is GREAT, it comes LOADED, it's price is higher than the Focus SVT, but you get what you pay for.

Although I have no intentions of getting rid of my Cougar any time soon, the recent announcements have caused me to reevaluate things. FMC really stuck their foot in it when they canceled the "S" project and forgot about the Cougar and all of its owners. It's a shame really, and kinda sad.

burnsmr4 · February 2001

Badulah thinking of buying (gulp) cars with Ws in their names?

Man...FMC must REALLY have bummed you out if you've already looked on dealer lots.

I can't blame you -- I'm thinking about visiting my local VW dealership this weekend to look at the Golf GLS 1.8T. They're loaded with standard features (hint-hint, FMC), and I want the gas mileage from the turbo rather than the V-6. I'd opt for a Jetta, but they screwed them up with the recent redesign -- it was smaller inside than in my 1988 VW Jetta GL. Get the Golf (same size from the back seat forward) and benefit from more storage space. Alas, the Passat is out of my reasonable price range. If not, there'd be no question.

FMC -- I'm serious about Badulah being down and out. I've had a jinxed kitty from the start, and I've never been happy with my dealership service. Y'all don't have an excuse for my looking elsewhere. But, Badulah? Real smooth move.

badulah · February 2001

Actually I look on dealer lots quite often. I started looking at the GTI over a year ago. At that time the dealerships were unwilling to come down on the sticker price, but times are harder now and they are more willing to negotiate

I try and test drive cars as often as possible. I have test driven a Civic Si, Celica GT, Eclipse GT, VW Bug, VW Jetta, and recently a Focus ZX3.

Yes, the recent news has depressed me more so than I thought possible, but as I said, I have no intentions of getting rid of my Cat any time soon.

dasaint1 · February 2001

Yesssss!!! The dealer finally fixed my driver's seat. It took a month and a half, but it's fixed. Now my Cat is 100% perfect. And no rattles either, thank God.

The only part of the Cougar I would come close to considering "tinny" is the hatch. I don't like the way you have to slam it with force to close the hatch. The doors, however, seem bulletproof.

My Mercury dealer also sells Ford, Lincoln and Mazda. Interestingly, they have signs all over the place for Subaru, although, there are no Subarus on the showroom. Are Subarus partly owned by Ford???

badulah · February 2001

Not that I know of.

patte · February 2001

Badulah
Have you ever test-driven an Impreza? We bought
one about the same time as the cougar and love
it. My husband and I split the driving 50/50
between the cougar and Impreza (he hates the
rattles in the sub but with the gol-darned snow
and ice this winter the AWD and ABS are terrific).
Anyway - for people defecting from FMC - it is
a great little car at about the same price, good
cargo space and back seat. And to date - not one
little "crusin-for-a-bruisin" teenager has beaten
me off the mark. (Sorry that sounds competitive -
I don't start it and I resent being a little ole lady
who looks like easy prey.)
First time we saw one, blue outback with fog lamps and
hood scoops - we laughed and called it RR names. But we
got a less vibrant color and love it. (Cars are kindof
like your own kids - you couldn't say you have a favorite
- they all have different qualities you like and maybe
dislike. The cougar is solid and classy, the impreza is a
fun little scoot car.)

Dasaint - I don't think they have anything to do
with Ford.

badulah · February 2001

Patte:
Thanks, but I'm not partial to the Impreza's looks. The performance is Definitely there with the new WRX, but it's just not my style. I really like the "Euro-Look", thats one of the reasons why I like the Cougar so much.

badulah · February 2001

Patte:
Where are you located?

patte · February 2001

I'm in Nebraska - so every bit of nasty weather
that Chic ago and then New Jersey gets has usually
been tested on the great plains first. I hope you
and Gustaf didn't get this week's sleet-and-then snow that still sits on our streets cuz it's only
about minus 10 and the whole midwest is out of
salt!!! What ever happened to global warming?

I agree that the impreza isn't great looking and
not even to be compared to the cougar in that
department. But it is fun and functional and you
should take one out for a drive. You too might
fall for it. (Sophie's Choice - I admit, all things considered, I would stick with my cougar
if I had to give one up.)

fish8 · February 2001

Someone here at my work owned a '99 or '00 BMW 323i and at 18,000 miles they needed a brake job. Can you guess the cost: $600.00. That was just for the brake job!!! I do believe that BMY offers routine maintenance as part of their warranty. So that would save you some $.

I agree with your car selections. I like the VW and BMW. You stated you have driven a VW Jetta. What modela dn what was your impression? Do you know how reliable they are? I have heard mixed reviews. I will start to look for a new car in about 1-1 1/2 years and the Jetta appeals to me.

fish8 · February 2001

I meant BMW not BMY...sorry

badulah · February 2001

I test drove the VR6 and I actually liked it, although I don't think I would buy one at this point in time. I have two friends who have a Jetta and both have had transmission problems.

$600 for a brake job!!!!! What did they need? New rotors, pads & calipers?

dasaint1 · February 2001

Patte:

Funny you should mention the Subaru Impreza. I test drove the Outback model last year before I bought the Cougar. I liked everything about it, especially the all-wheel drive and bulletproof reliability of the Subaru.

The only thing I didn't like was the dated design. I knew that it was due for a redesign, and boy, am I glad I didn't buy one. The new Impreza doesn't look that much different actually, but it's got the 165 hp 2.5 engine I-4 instead of the 2.2.

My wife drives a Cavalier and since I've bought my Cougar, we've grown to dislike the basic transportation Cavalier and will trade it soon for an Outback Sport.

dasaint1 · February 2001

$600 for a brake job!!!!

Let me break down the numbers for you:

$200 for the actual brake job.
+
$400 for a new suit, shirt, tie, socks and shoes for the mechanic whose got a job interview to go to.

patte · February 2001

Great choice! We traded in our '91 Cav for the impreza Outback. Since the cougar is manual and we didn't like the feel shifting the Subi on the lot we decided to go with an automatic impreza and love it. Think Edmund's would find a following for a new owner's group for two car families of cougar/imprezas?!

badulah · February 2001

Your own your own with that club. I'm looking forward to heading up the "GTI Owners Who Used to own Cougars Support Group" AKA "GTIOWUTOCSG" for short.

fastback2 · February 2001

Before I bought the cougar, I took a hard look at the Impreza 2.5 RS. It had a 165 HP engine, a slick 5-speed tranny, and all-wheel drive. Besides being a decent winter car, AWD makes for a fun ride on swervy dirt roads (rally racing, anyone?). I ultimately went with the cougar for its performance, its unique styling, and a desire to buy American. As far as my cougar is concerned, I have been quite happy with my choice.

However, FMC's by-the-numbers attitude (and demonstrated lack of marketing capability) has left me wondering why I should buy another Ford product. While I definitely appreciate the time and effort given by MWS and other concerned FMC employees, it seems like Ford's upper level management care more about their quarterly profits than about their customers.

Recently, Subaru came out with the Impreza WRX, which is a performance-enhanced version of the RS. In a couple years, this will be one of the cars I will be looking at. Since there will be no Cougar S, FMC is off my potential new car list at this point.

To all: Have a good weekend!

dasaint1 · February 2001

Patte:

That's some coincidence, huh! My wife's got a '97 Cavalier that she's still making payments on. It seems like she's been paying forever. But everytime we pass by the Subaru dealer in Yonkers, we always sneak a look for the Outback. I kinda like the sedan also. The WRX would be a dream but it might be too much for her to handle--imagine going from 115 hp to 242 hp. Plus, Im not crazy about turbo engines.

Interestingly, the Cougar V6 and the new Impreza I-4 engine are the same size and nearly have the same hp (170/165). It'll probably perform similarly.

Yes, I'm sure Edmunds will allow us to form our own group. We can be co-presidents of our car club. We'll schedule outings and have our own races where Cougars and Imprezas can compete one at a time. Half the race will be on dirt roads and the other half on track. Whoevers got the best time wins. Think of the possibilities.

fish8 · February 2001

I'm sure MWs loves all this talk about other makes and models other than Ford....Oh Well

dasaint1 · February 2001

Fish8:

Forget the Cougar-S, how's about a Cougar with the Subaru all-wheel drive system powered by a 4.6L V8. Any takers?!?

Badulah:

I once knew someone by the name of Gtiowutocsg. In Swahili, it means "he who stands on cow dung must soon wash feet."

badulah · February 2001

Confuscious say, man who fart in church sit in lone pew.

badulah · February 2001

Have a GREAT weekend everyone!!!

burnsmr4 · February 2001

If a tree falls in the forest...do the other trees laugh?

camelard · February 2001

Or cry?

stageleft · February 2001

Confucious also say:

Person who go to bed with itchy backside wake up with stinky fingers.

:-)

Oh, and I'm sure our contacts are LOooviNG this banter about rival automakers. Maybe comments like that is what will wake the suits at FMC up from the blue-oval dream they've been living in (and limiting themselves to). If they wanted to draw people into Mercury dealerships with the introduction of the Cougar, they succeeded. If they wanted to piss their current customer base off, and leave little or no room for repeat buyers, they succeeded there, too.

I know my next car is going to be a BMW or V-dub, also. I've been looking at them since the announcement was released. I know it seems kinda shallow - after all we've been preaching about how the Cougar is the best car on the road for the money, but honestly, what happens to us when the last one rolls off the assembly line in leu of the new Mustang in 2003?

Our loyalty should be rewarded, and I believe it has - from Mercury (thanks DC & MWS!!!), but as we all feel slighted by the suits at Ford World Headquarters, our brand loyalty just went down the wrong shoot.

I think that I probably won't buy a Mercury ever again, sadly, because I just don't see another model in thier lineup that appeals to me now, or by any of the "new" shared vehicle platforms that are coming out. MWS, I know you're excited about the new Mountaineer, as is your counterpart, but I do know my wife will be replacing her 99 Explorer with a 2002 later this year. So what benefit did Mercury gain by introducing yet another bland - I take that back, the new Mountaineer looks pretty good - but the new Explorer looks even better. Maybe it's just that Detroit doesn't appreciate the CA mindset when it comes to design, or they knowingly approved a solid one-off of thier prized SUV by giving Mercury authorization to build a substandard looking SUV to make theirs look better? We may never know - until the axe falls on the Mercury brand.

I'd like to say that I will be there to support the Mercury brand for years to come, as I have done with the Ford brand in years past, but until another Cougar or Cougar-like vehicle gets the Mercury badge I'll continue to bear the torch for our beloved new-edge Cats.

Take care everyone, have a great weekend! (I get three days - thank you Mr. Presidents of the past!).

Later, drive safely, and Happy Cougaring!

stageleft · February 2001

(I feel like a turncoat, but I really wanted an S. My wife even said yes, even though she initially told me I had to pay off the one I had first) Go figure. ;-/

bbell1941olds · February 2001

I am looking for a wire wheel cover for an 86 Cougar and need 4 center caps for the same. Can anyone direct me to where I can find them?

jrp6977 · February 2001

coolchick · February 2001

I took Adelaide in for state inspection, oil service and 10K checkup yesterday. While I was there, I wandered into the showroom to take a look around. The manager recognized me and remembered my car, and came up and chatted a bit, which was nice.

However, in the showroom were 1 Mountaineer, 1 minivan, 4 various Merc/Lincoln boatmobiles and ZERO Cougars. And in the lineup out in front, there was only one Cougar. Sad.

stxrx7 · February 2001

I'm beating a dead cat, er, uh, horse here but here goes anyway...

A few months ago, I attended the Auto Show at the Convention Center here in downtown San Antonio, TX. There was no Cougar on display. When I asked the dealer reps about the S, I was told that they are being produced and that I should check in again with them soon for a test drive.

Fast forward to the 2001 Chicago Auto Show, where the Marauder pre-production concept made its debut. Of course, it's designed for the mature auto aficionado (affluent married consumers with children at home; aka aging baby boomers). There aren't many big performance cars left on the market, particularly at anything approaching affordable prices. There have been no Maurauders for decades. Ahhh...nostalgia.

The bottom line: auto manufacturing is a business. Profits will always take priority over originality. Mercury has never taken a risk in its life. Even the Cougar was a facelife of an old nameplate. This is simply a re-make of the same car driven to victory in the Pike's Peak Hill Climb in 1963. God bless those aging baby boomers! And thanks, Mercury, for not letting us all forget an oh-so-legendary nameplate from over a decade before I was born.

Sarcasm has a place in the world.

grinsekatze · February 2001

Let' s see if anybody else knows about this: When the AC on my 2000 Cougar is running, there is a noticeable jolt going through the car every 10 seconds or so, with it comes a soft whistle from the dashboard. Sounds ridiculous, but it tends to get pretty annoying over the time. Has anybody ever had that problem? What is it and how can it be addressed?

The AC works otherwise fine. I had it checked at a dealer and they (of course) did not find anything. I wonder if they noticed something wrong with the car if it was on fire...

Bye
Grinsekatze

daexpert · February 2001

Grin..., my car does the same thing when the A/C is on, it tends to give me a few jolts from time to time, but certainly not every 10 seconds, that's a bit too much. As far as the whistling goes, I don't know about that, maybe someone else here has experienced that, but I have not. I did not experienced the jolts with my ATX Cougar, but I have felt them with the MTX, who knows why, but at least the A/C works!

cyroncat · February 2001

I am in the market for a 2001 Mercury Cougar C2 and I am finding it difficult to locate the exact car I am looking for, so I need some advice on compromises.

I want the French Blue exterior and Midnight Black Leather interior, no ABS, and no Moonroof. Hard to find exactly that (really don't want to wait the 8-10 weeks for special order). Much better luck finding C2s without leather.

How do people feel about leather seats? Are they a must? Are they an uneccessary expense? Do the cloth seats wear well over time?

Any insight would be appreciated.

camelard · February 2001

It depends on where you live and personal preference. Here in Ottawa where we get stifling heat and humidity in the summer and bone chilling cold in the winter, you couldn't pay me to take leather seats. Cloth is far more forgiving of the vagaries of temperature.

Plus I have a dog whose nails do from time to time get a bit long and I can only imagine what he would do to leather.

jdbishop · February 2001

I bought my 99 with cloth seats and was very displeased with them. They are very hard and coarse. I bought Katzkin covers for a grand and couldn't be happier. I am from Houston, TX and I am familiar with hot and humid. Both my wife and I have leather in our cars, and given the choice, I won't have anything else.

badulah · February 2001

Morning All:
Unfortunately I'm not one of the lucky people who have off today.

bbell1941olds:
I'm really sorry, but I don't think we can help you with your question. This forum is devoted to the 1999 and newer Mercury Cougar. There is a news group that is devoted to all Cougars: alt.autos.mercury.cougar You may find some direction from them.

grinsekatze:
The only jolt my car experiences is when I turn on the AC. Once it is on and running there are no further jolts. I suggest you have your car checked by your local Service Department.

cyroncat:
I have the cloth seats in my Cat and I am very happy with them. I fully intended to get leather, but at the time (7/98) leather was only available if you ordered the power seat and side air bags. The total cost was way to high, so I settled for the cloth. It's really a matter of preference. Sit in both and take both for a test drive. That is the only sure way to tell.

malibu · February 2001

I have had both: I had the sport cloth in my black cougar. They were nice, didn't get too hot and I didn't have it in the cold. I have very long hair though and the fabric would grab my hair. The red cougar I have now has leather, I think they pad the leather seats more, my husband thinks they are more comfortable also, I sit a little higher. They do get a little cold, I keep a towel over the bottom and they don't grab my hair! I will always have leather now that I have experienced it for the first time. Plus it smells so good!
Also on the subject of seats: I would like to get seat covers for my seats but have the side air bags, does anyone know if that's a problem, I would think you couldn't cover them because of it, but maybe there so powerful they could rip through the seat cover?

Thanks.

dasaint1 · February 2001

Never really had a car with leather seats, so I'm not sure what I'm missing. I agree with Camelard's reasons for getting cloth. Also I feel that cloth wears better over time. Have you ever seen cars with worn leather??? It looks awful. Of course, cars with worn cloth seats don't look so hot either, but at least you didn't pay $1,000 for it. With that said, my next car will have leather seats, so I'll know what I've been missing all this time.

Malibu, not sure what you're trying to say there. You wanna put seat covers on your leather seats (and that's probably cloth seat covers)?? Why?? That kinda defeats the purpose of getting leather seats to begin with. And on top of that, you'll block the side airbags (a life saving device). That's two reasons not to get it. Better safe than sorry.

gambit293 · February 2001

I just went car shopping today.

The first sales rep I talked to said that they had already SOLD several Cougar S earlier this year though they were out now. However, upon further probing, I found that he had no idea what the Cougar S even was. He then pointed me to the Zn, saying that it was more or less the same thing.

Both dealerships I visited had quite a few C2's and Zn's. I might consider a C2, though I think the Zn's hood scoop looks really silly. I do like the rear spoiler better than the normal 2001 spoiler. Also, a manual is available with the C2, but not with the Zn. However, the dealer would have to let me have the C2 at more or less or normal V6 price. I still don't see how tiny cosmetic tweaks could justify a $500+ price difference.

BTW, I forget who asked this, but I think Subaru is owned by GM, at least partially.

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