Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright · March 2018

Tired slow, lotsa miles---$1,500 is more than generous.

qbrozen · April 2018

I have a problem with the use of the word "stellar" here.
https://ebay.to/2IjqqHE

omarman · April 2018

Maybe a typo...Sell her? Seller? Cellar?
Solid wheels.
Linc, "Solid!"

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Oh well, Beverly Hills Car Club. Where does he find this stuff? Dinged up bumpers, broken door handle, missing door panels, missing carpet, misaligned trunk lid, slapdash paint, anemic B16, 3-main bearing engine, wrong coil wiring, wrong fuse box lid, broken exhaust, rusted valve cover, leaking differential, old bushings.

Condition: 4 minus Value: $3500-$4000 (if you even want a B16--the crankshafts snap).

fintail · April 2018

Gotta love car flippers doing to the market what house flippers have done to real estate.

explorerx4 · April 2018

Is Gerry Martell on the money. or?
https://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-gtogoattrue-42/6549110475.html

Selling because tired of getting beat up at auto shows?
https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/d/1967-plymouth-belvedere-ii/6545952713.html

ab348 · April 2018

Imagine the disappointment every time you get asked to open the hood.

berri · April 2018

You know though, that slant six banger probably drives better in everyday traffic than a 440, and particularly a Hemi form that era. But I know what you mean. Rides like a Caddy heh? Now that is hyperbole at its best

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

explorerx4 said:
Is Gerry Martell on the money. or?
https://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-gtogoattrue-42/6549110475.html

Selling because tired of getting beat up at auto shows?
https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/d/1967-plymouth-belvedere-ii/6545952713.html

I think Gerry needs to revise his appraisal on the GTO, or did he miss the incorrect parts, body damage and rust? I'd say he's off by $10K.

The '67 Belvedere isn't off too much on price-- a few thou high--but it would be a good candidate for a transplant.

isellhondas · April 2018

I totally agree on the GTO! What's with the primer hood? Not the best year and worst of all, the RUST! I'm no appraiser but I think even 20,000 is too much. Just not the "right" car, year, color, options or anything else.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Depends on whether or not it's a real Ram Air or not. It's a heap. for sure. I was viewing in the best possible light.

stickguy · April 2018

well, the GTO is a 4 speed car. that is a big plus. I also assume that you are staring at a complete strip and redo on that one, just based on the rust you can see (which is usually just a small portion of the rust you will find.

and I doubt the fully restored value on that car would be worth the cost of a ground up restoration.

omarman · April 2018

Listed on another site that GTO is advertised as NOM engine as well.
This is not a numbers matching car but is fitted with a period correct block. $32,995

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Poor guy--he'll never get anywhere near that price. Might as well not even bother to advertise. He might hang a price tag of $18,500 on it and see what happens. If he got offered $16K he should consider it if no other offers are forthcoming.

gsemike · April 2018

Long Island Craigs

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/mercedes-benz-82-imported/6523597600.html People love these. I don't get them

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1982-lincoln-towncar/6550717635.html "Totallu rebuilt engine" Looks like it's held up pretty well for what it is

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1963-mercury-comet-2-door/6548043248.html Rat rod candidate

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1965-plymouth-satellite/6548336130.html A bit of an underrated Mopar trying to get in on Mopar-mania pricing

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1982-ferrari-308-gtb-coupe/6550543372.html Something exotic. Lots of work. Price decent?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1975-fiat-124-spider/6541497160.html Barn find + easy resto Fiat Spider

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-gmc-c20/6550428021.html Old truck mania. Seller says he doesn't have the room, but looks like he has plenty of room

stickguy · April 2018

I doubt that fiat is an easy restore. Could probs be upside down by the time you got the mechanis, chassis and interior sorted. And that is before spending a fortune on a strip and repaint.

White is weird to see on one of these too.

explorerx4 · April 2018

I think I see some Great Stuff underneath the Fiat in one of those pictures.

fintail · April 2018

I like the color of the G, but don't think a manual would be fun, and be leery with early ones as they can be a magnet for body rust.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

'82 Ferrari 308GTB -- if it passes inspection, it's a fair price. Expect to be humiliated at a stop light by a new Honda minivan, however.

'75 Fiat --a rat. Parts car.

berri · April 2018

Seller says he doesn't have the room, but looks like he has plenty of room

Reminds me of an advertising spot line on Chicago radio when I was young. I believe it was Arnie Yussim Chevrolet, or something like that, that used the tag line "I'd like to give 'em away, but the wife won't let me"

isellhondas · April 2018

"MadMan Muntz" used to say the same thing! Anyone remember him?

fintail · April 2018

Took a quick browse of BaT

Found something local - needs interior cosmetics, but it's sure pretty

And maybe the best early 107 I have ever seen - I could see this car being exported. Love the original paperwork

texases · April 2018

I wonder how that SEC rides, given the lowered suspension and lower-profile tires. And $35K+ for a 450SL? Wow. I'd rather have the 560SL, plenty at that price or below.

fintail · April 2018

Depending on the shocks, maybe not bad. Probably no harsher than my car with "sport" suspension and runflats. I worry most about the dash cracks - I suspect that job will be at least $1500 for parts and labor to replace, if you can find a new pad. The wood will be easy, and I even have an original head unit for that car just laying around.

For 107s, I think the most desirable are the best 560s, and the earliest 350/450s, pre-74. They bring much more in Europe than here.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

fintail said:
Took a quick browse of BaT

Found something local - needs interior cosmetics, but it's sure pretty

And maybe the best early 107 I have ever seen - I could see this car being exported. Love the original paperwork

It's hard to price "time capsule" cars with such low miles. But I can't see any 450SL worth more than a pristine 560SL, as the 560SL is a superior car in every way imaginable, yet looks pretty much the same. So let's say "all the money" for the 450SL is $20K.

The 560SEC isn't even considered collectible, but I think it's a nice car for cheap. I don't see why a really nice one couldn't bring $12K or maybe even $15K.

Of course, the downside of all these 80s Mercedes is that repair costs will just kill you, and you could easily run up bills that would equal the original purchase price.

Hence, they remain relatively cheap, even though they are really nice riding, well-built cars. Well, except for the 450SL which is a dog if I ever saw one.

qbrozen · April 2018

they have already doubled that "all the money" on the SL. Crazy.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

First Amendment rights being exercised by the seller. God bless America. Free speech!

berri · April 2018

"MadMan Muntz" used to say the same thing! Anyone remember him?

I vaguely remember the car from back in the 50's. Was he involved with Courtesy Ford in Chicago. I think they handled Muntz there. For that matter, I seem to recall Muntz TV and radios too.

fintail · April 2018

The 450SL, if it is as good as it looks, will bring 50K in Europe without effort. The small bumper/pre emissions junk cars are desirable, it is the 75-77 models that are most troublesome, IIRC.

I think even 12-15K for the SEC is too much, given its needs. Nice ones with no issues hit the MBCA Star classifieds for maybe 15K, and you know how devotees can price their cars. I'd be leery passing 10K, and would need to budget in for the dash repair. The issue with those isn't just maintenance, but fuel economy - turning it into a daily driver will have fuel costs like a modern SUV.

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's hard to price "time capsule" cars with such low miles. But I can't see any 450SL worth more than a pristine 560SL, as the 560SL is a superior car in every way imaginable, yet looks pretty much the same. So let's say "all the money" for the 450SL is $20K.

The 560SEC isn't even considered collectible, but I think it's a nice car for cheap. I don't see why a really nice one couldn't bring $12K or maybe even $15K.

Of course, the downside of all these 80s Mercedes is that repair costs will just kill you, and you could easily run up bills that would equal the original purchase price.

Hence, they remain relatively cheap, even though they are really nice riding, well-built cars. Well, except for the 450SL which is a dog if I ever saw one.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

I didn't really read the description on the 560SEC.

The 450SL is simply an awful car. If you gave me one, I'd flip it in a day.

fintail · April 2018

I'd have imagined an early 380SL would be more troublesome than an early or late run 450SL,

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Probably, with that timing chain defect on the 380SL. The early 350SL and earlier 450SL certainly looked better than the later fat-bumper ones, and the earlier ones didn't have that complex climate control system either--another monster to deal with on most W107s.

fintail · April 2018

Early 380SL also isn't the most powerful - and these aren't terribly fast to begin with. Small bumpers and traditional controls are where it's at. For my own personal taste (I have no plans to buy a 107), I'd have no problem with an early car just as much as a 560.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Yes, either end of the spectrum. But a W107 isn't in my future either.

fintail · April 2018

And that color combo - green on parchment, hard to beat that.

Reminds me of this car - even more expensive when new, and another stylish color combo. It brought but 6K at the auction mentioned in the ad, way back in 2009:

qbrozen · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
First Amendment rights being exercised by the seller. God bless America. Free speech!

That's not the seller, though. Those are the buyers bidding it up.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Oh I thought it was for sale for $40K. I give up trying to make sense of bids like this. The car's even been repainted! As for mileage authentication, the seller has an "affidavit" from the original owner--so fingers crossed on that.

Perhaps it's a European bid, as fintail suggests? Euro is strong right now, isn't it, against the USD?

ab348 · April 2018

The comments on the 450 are hilarious in their search for perfection. I read them and hear German accents.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

I remember one guy who had a beautifully restored SL. He was explaining to me how difficult it was to have the electrical diagrams on the relays in the fuse box, reproduced accurately in the right color ink. He then pointed out the grommet that holds the windshield washer fluid bag on a small hook, and noted that the grommet was the proper bronze color, and "NOT the reproduction aluminum grommet!"

I'm not making this up. And yeah, it sold for a whoppin' $150K.

Perfection is important to some people, although I think we do reach a point of scariness regarding the inner recesses of the human mind.

fintail · April 2018

The Euro has gained nearly 20% on the USD in the past 2 years IIRC, although not nearly at recession levels. However, the cars bring a lot more in Europe, and one like this is a lot cheaper than a quality restoration. Also, the luggage is very cool and is worth a bit itself.

omarman · April 2018

Both seat cushions have been re-stuffed with OEM material.
What is "OEM material" for Mercedes seats circa 1973? Seller seems to rather avoid calling it out - whatever it is.

I'd still like to have a Gucci Seville with the luggage. I'd pass on the green ~~Granada~~ Mercedes.

tjc78 · April 2018

omarman said:

Both seat cushions have been re-stuffed with OEM material. What is "OEM material" for Mercedes seats circa 1973? Seller seems to rather avoid calling it out - whatever it is. I'd still like to have a Gucci Seville with the luggage. I'd pass on the green ~~Granada~~ Mercedes.

Never knew this existed. Around the same time Lincoln had the Cartier, Bill Blass, Pucci and Givenchy editions of the Mark V.

fintail · April 2018

Some people today would want that Gucci Seville .

I am not sure if 70s MBs had horsehair or foam seat stuffing, but whatever it is kind of deflates with time, and you often see wrinkles on period cars, especially 116s.

qbrozen · April 2018

Found a car for ya, Fin.
as long as I don't grab it first.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/725772028/overview?aff=share_other

fintail · April 2018

Nice car, but the color combo would put me in an asylum, and those are from what I call the "head bolt era", so I will have to pass. It's all yours !

qbrozen · April 2018

I hate black/black, too, but these don't exactly grow on trees.

So what of head bolts?

omarman · April 2018

Could be the reputation (deserved or not) of Mercedes head bolt problems on 6.3 M156 engines.

fintail · April 2018

AMG cars of the late 00s, with the M156, have a reputation, apparently deserved, of "stretched" head bolt issues. MBWorld and Benzworld have many tales of woe. There were some cars done under warranty (now far too old to even get goodwill, I think), and there are aftermarket kits to address it, but it is an Achilles heel on these cars, and if it hasn't been addressed, I'd want to budget for it even if the failure rate isn't 100%.

I know the NA engines are cool in their big and bad way, but if I wanted a car like this, I'd save a little/spend a little more and get a later turbo V8 car.

qbrozen · April 2018

Heck, i would probably do something like that preemptively. If you wait till failure, it would involve replacing the head gaskets, too, likely. Do it beforehand and you could avoid removing the heads. Could be a fairly easy job (yes, I am sure I am kidding myself on any modern car).

ab348 · April 2018

fintail said:
AMG cars of the late 00s, with the M156, have a reputation, apparently deserved, of "stretched" head bolt issues. MBWorld and Benzworld have many tales of woe. There were some cars done under warranty (now far too old to even get goodwill, I think), and there are aftermarket kits to address it, but it is an Achilles heel on these cars, and if it hasn't been addressed, I'd want to budget for it even if the failure rate isn't 100%.

Hmm. From reading online forums for years I assumed this was unique to GM's Northstar engines. Glad to see German engineers are not immune.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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