Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh · April 2018

This guy says that auto stop/start is just designed to "game" CAFE....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k159M8QhCIE

ab348 · April 2018

stickguy said:
I think it is a stupid idea. But they don't ask my opinion.

I agree. I think Ford is doing some stupid things of late.

roadburner · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
You often see people hitting the rail when exiting at too high a speed.

I've tried to sucker a few idjits into keeping up with me on a tight on or off ramp. I once had an old Trans Am get waaay out of shape; it was a two lane ramp and raining- I passed him on the inside. He just had to impress his flaky girl friend and he floored it. The back end stepped out a lot- but not enough to tag the guardrail...

berri · April 2018

I guess if a new president and congress come in down the road and go back to stricter mileage, or gas goes sky high they can revert to overseas operations to modify and reintroduce cars again. They really let their models go stale and seem to have also done a bit to themselves following Nissan over cost cutting on them.

andres3 · April 2018

suydam said:
In other words, speed is a factor in accidents, and it’s one (like not drinking and driving) the driver can control.

Except it isn't, because most accidents don't occur at high speeds, so if it is a factor, perhaps if it shows anything, it shows going slow is more dangerous.

IF it was a factor, there would be an uncomplicated correlation they could state without muddying the waters with drunkeness and other factors.

andres3 · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
You often see people hitting the rail when exiting at too high a speed.

Yes, but I found it interesting "at least in the movies" they run simulations with other pilots when something bad happens (the Sully landing) to see if the same bad results happen to other operators. So if I or Lewis Hamilton can handle that same turn in the same Lexus at the speed they crashed at, was it the speed, or the driver error that was the problem?

I vote driver error, and/or going too fast for conditions (too fast for the driver's skill level = driver error, or too fast for a turn/ramp; provided Hamilton crashed too), and I have a hard time considering going too fast for conditions the same as speeding.

andres3 · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
If you raised the speed limit to 125, I bet you could prove that speed kills.

I seem to recall a poll taken of experienced race drivers, and they asked them something like this: "At what speed, on a public road, would you stop daydreaming, having a smoke or driving with one hand and seriously start to focus on the road?"

The averaged-out answer was, I believe, 93 mph.

Yes, but I bet that was 25 years ago, road cars have advanced, and, it assumes a public road with other traffic. Ask them the same question with little to no traffic in consideration, and it'll be 123 (in a German vehicle).

andres3 · April 2018

imidazol97 said:

andres3 said:
You do realize your own link finds the cause of the increase in crashes to be, and I quote:

"Crashes attributable to unsafe lane changes increased 66 percent on 70-mph interstates and highways."

Unsafe lane changes are the cause of your accidents in Ohio, not speed. You can make an unsafe lane change at any speed, whether it be 5 MPH, 55 MPH, or 155 MPH. I would say most unsafe lane changes are due to incompetence, obliviousness, distraction, non-situationally aware, and failure to look and use ones own eyeballs.
I'll assume you're taking that position on ignoring the speeder component just to make an argument. The greater the frictional speed difference in the traffic, the more lane changes occur. Those lane changes are due to the speed difference.

When the speed limits were 65, e.g., the the higher end of the Bell curve might average 70 mph. But when the speed limits went to 70, the higher end moved to 82 or so. The difference between those and the trucks and the drivers in the right two lanes of a 3-lane freeway just became greater from 82/63 vs 70/63.

The left lane dominator egos among the speeders in the left lane feel the one lane should be kept open, almost unused, except for their high speed pleasure. They tailgate. They flash their headlights at anyone daring to use "their" reserved lane even if going 80. The "other," "little people" drivers, in the mind of the left lane dominator should stay out of their way using only the right two lanes--requiring more lane changes for those drivers to move around slower traffic such as trucks in the right two lanes.

I watched this process of attitude of the left laners on my recent drive to Pigeon Forge. There are two kinds of left laners, the dominators and the users. The dominators never move out of their left lane, even if there is a middle lane open. Yet they are the ones to yell that some highways or some states have a slower traffic keep right rule suggested.

The users are folks who want to get somewhere and speed, but they move safely over making those lane changes they expect all the "little people" to make in their use of the right two lanes out of a 3 lane road, and boogie on ahead. Often they outpace the dominator who's busy trying to play ego war with someone daring to go under 90 in the left lane.

The best use of the highways built by tax money paid by most citizens is for all lanes to be used. Traffic flows best--not just for the 1%ers who feel the left lane swamp is theirs alone for use.

The lane changes caused by the excessive speeds of a few are the causes of the increased accidents.

I'm not ignoring the speeder component, it's just your article doesn't support that component. If anyone is ignoring anything, it is you ignoring the numbers. Unsafe lane changes occur from anyone at any speed. It is not caused by speeders.

More often than not, I'm sure it is caused by a slow poke changing lanes at the exact wrong time someone going faster (and has the right of way in their own lane by the way). Therefore, it's not the speeder changing lanes and causing the accident, it is the slowpoke that changes lanes, usually to get in the passing lane with no intent of passing anyone at all. A pointless lane change, but a very dangerous one. Other lane changes might be caused by left lane campers/impeders, that fail to yield the passing lane, and then you get passing cars changing lanes to the right. This adds another lane where an unsafe lane change by the slower vehicle could result in a wreck.

Sometimes left lane impeders accelerate when people try to pass on the right. This might cause an inattentive speeder (although they are both speeders now), to not realize the left lane camper is racing, change lanes back to the left, and collide.

Without more data, all we know is that unsafe lane changes are being made, and it's causing 66% of the increased accidents (not a few, I'd say).

andres3 · April 2018

stickguy said:
hopefully they keep at least 1 smaller/midsize sedan. Make the Focus a little bigger, and split the difference?

ISN'T THAT WHAT ACURA DID? combining the TL and TSX to make the TLX. I don't think they are setting the world on fire with that strategy. I'm not sure who is buying the RLX.

andres3 · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think some math or statistical genius could probably figure out the optimal speed limit--the point at which advantages start to fall off.

My prediction would be that if speeds got too high, we'd see more single-car accidents, the result of some drivers not being able to handle the dynamics of high-speed maneuvers.

I'm all for someone trying to disprove the 85th percentile being the optimum. In CA, I vote for 90th percentile limits, and you can have 80th percentile limits in other States. Maybe need a control group to stick with 85th percentile.

Oh wait, were not doing that on our Interstates, already, oh well! The 85th percentile only seems to be adopted on non-highways.

andres3 · April 2018

john4545 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
If you raised the speed limit to 125, I bet you could prove that speed kills.

I seem to recall a poll taken of experienced race drivers, and they asked them something like this: "At what speed, on a public road, would you stop daydreaming, having a smoke or driving with one hand and seriously start to focus on the road?"

The averaged-out answer was, I believe, 93 mph.
@Mr_Shiftright

I agree with you.. My 77 Grand prix with the long hood was a tank. I bounced off cars, tree's ,poles, etc at low speeds back in the day. If I had crashed at 90 / 100 mph I probably would not be here today. Todays car is made out of tissue paper..... a high speed crash in todays times are more likely to result in death than years ago.

IF you had died at 90 or 100 MPH it would have spared all the cars, trees, and poles you bounced off of back in the day. Therefore, collisions would have been reduced

andres3 · April 2018

imidazol97 said:

andres3 said:
You do realize your own link finds the cause of the increase in crashes to be, and I quote:

"Crashes attributable to unsafe lane changes increased 66 percent on 70-mph interstates and highways."

Unsafe lane changes are the cause of your accidents in Ohio, not speed. You can make an unsafe lane change at any speed, whether it be 5 MPH, 55 MPH, or 155 MPH. I would say most unsafe lane changes are due to incompetence, obliviousness, distraction, non-situationally aware, and failure to look and use ones own eyeballs.
I'll assume you're taking that position on ignoring the speeder component just to make an argument. The greater the frictional speed difference in the traffic, the more lane changes occur. Those lane changes are due to the speed difference.

When the speed limits were 65, e.g., the the higher end of the Bell curve might average 70 mph. But when the speed limits went to 70, the higher end moved to 82 or so. The difference between those and the trucks and the drivers in the right two lanes of a 3-lane freeway just became greater from 82/63 vs 70/63.

The left lane dominator egos among the speeders in the left lane feel the one lane should be kept open, almost unused, except for their high speed pleasure. They tailgate. They flash their headlights at anyone daring to use "their" reserved lane even if going 80. The "other," "little people" drivers, in the mind of the left lane dominator should stay out of their way using only the right two lanes--requiring more lane changes for those drivers to move around slower traffic such as trucks in the right two lanes.

I watched this process of attitude of the left laners on my recent drive to Pigeon Forge. There are two kinds of left laners, the dominators and the users. The dominators never move out of their left lane, even if there is a middle lane open. Yet they are the ones to yell that some highways or some states have a slower traffic keep right rule suggested.

The users are folks who want to get somewhere and speed, but they move safely over making those lane changes they expect all the "little people" to make in their use of the right two lanes out of a 3 lane road, and boogie on ahead. Often they outpace the dominator who's busy trying to play ego war with someone daring to go under 90 in the left lane.

The best use of the highways built by tax money paid by most citizens is for all lanes to be used. Traffic flows best--not just for the 1%ers who feel the left lane swamp is theirs alone for use.

The lane changes caused by the excessive speeds of a few are the causes of the increased accidents.

Do you have any evidence of this bell curve of speeds going from 70 to 82 with the 5 MPH change in speed limits? It contradicts quite a bit of historical data on changed speed limits. I"d love to see the traffic and engineering survey that shows a average speed change of 12 MPH for a 5 MPH change in the speed limit.

I'm not a big advocate of forcing trucks to have a lower limit.

The left lane rules and passing lanes can be followed and the lane used to tax payer advantages. It need not go unused. There will always be slower and faster. Slower Traffic Keep Right; yield to faster traffic. It works, it's been proven, it's been tried, it's being used in 1st world Countries!

Saying the left lane goes unused except for speeders is a fallacy. If there really are a constant stream of speeders forcing you out of the left lane, perhaps your speed limits are set below the 85th percentile, and now you've identified the problem?

andres3 · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think some math or statistical genius could probably figure out the optimal speed limit--the point at which advantages start to fall off.

My prediction would be that if speeds got too high, we'd see more single-car accidents, the result of some drivers not being able to handle the dynamics of high-speed maneuvers.

The thing is those types of drivers are already the ones causing wrecks at 55 - 80 MPH. They can't handle 55 to 80 either.

The idea with higher limits is that you can get the law abiders to move with the pack and go with the "flow."

Michaell · April 2018

berri said:
I guess if a new president and congress come in down the road and go back to stricter mileage, or gas goes sky high they can revert to overseas operations to modify and reintroduce cars again. They really let their models go stale and seem to have also done a bit to themselves following Nissan over cost cutting on them.

I was thinking about that, as well.

With the relaxation of the CAFE standards, and the aging of the baby boomer generation, there isn't much reason to build and sell smaller cars (or, mid-size or large cars, for that matter).

While I've owned SUV's, CUV's and crossovers in the past, I prefer a good old fashioned car for my daily driver (Elantra GT and Jetta are my last two). The wife likes the higher seating position and AWD capabilities of SUV's (going backward from the current vehicle - Outback, Mazda CX-9, Saturn VUE, Saturn VUE, Ford Explorer, Ford Expedition).

I'm hoping this isn't the beginning of the end of the passenger car - I, and I suspect many, many others, will be sorely out of luck trying to find our next vehicle. Or, we buy used.

roadburner · April 2018

The only Ford I've actually considered owning is a Mustang GT with the Performance Package- so the death of Ford's other cars is a non-issue for me.
Well, I could see having a Fiesta ST for a work beater, but that's it...

ab348 · April 2018

So does this Ford announcement mean the death knell for the Lincoln MKZ and Continental as well?

Michaell · April 2018

ab348 said:
So does this Ford announcement mean the death knell for the Lincoln MKZ and Continental as well?

That may have already been announced... yep, here it is.

ab348 · April 2018

I thought there was a denial subsequent to that, but it makes sense that if the Ford-brand cars go, so would the Conti. That is an expensive development cost pill to swallow.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
You often see people hitting the rail when exiting at too high a speed.
I've tried to sucker a few idjits into keeping up with me on a tight on or off ramp. I once had an old Trans Am get waaay out of shape; it was a two lane ramp and raining- I passed him on the inside. He just had to impress his flaky girl friend and he floored it. The back end stepped out a lot- but not enough to tag the guardrail...

Well at least now he knows what NASCAR drivers mean when they tell the pit crew--"it's pushin'"

Michaell · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
You often see people hitting the rail when exiting at too high a speed.
I've tried to sucker a few idjits into keeping up with me on a tight on or off ramp. I once had an old Trans Am get waaay out of shape; it was a two lane ramp and raining- I passed him on the inside. He just had to impress his flaky girl friend and he floored it. The back end stepped out a lot- but not enough to tag the guardrail...
Well at least now he knows what NASCAR drivers mean when they tell the pit crew--"it's pushin'"

Push is understeer. Loose is oversteer.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Right. If you hit the rail while traveling forward you've pushed. If you hit it backwards, you've probably oversteered. When you push, you can't hold the turn angle. A lot depends on how you respond to the movement you're feeling in the car.

Michaell · April 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
Right. If you hit the rail while traveling forward you've pushed. If you hit it backwards, you've probably oversteered. When you push, you can't hold the turn angle. A lot depends on how you respond to the movement you're feeling in the car.

I'll have to admit, I've been watching a lot of NASCAR over the past couple of years, and for all the grief they get for "not being able to turn right", there is a lot of skill needed to keep those cars pointed in the right direction and going fast.

andres3 · April 2018

ab348 said:
I thought there was a denial subsequent to that, but it makes sense that if the Ford-brand cars go, so would the Conti. That is an expensive development cost pill to swallow.

I'd hate to be the guy that green-lighted the 1 billion spent on developing that car.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2018

Michaell said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Right. If you hit the rail while traveling forward you've pushed. If you hit it backwards, you've probably oversteered. When you push, you can't hold the turn angle. A lot depends on how you respond to the movement you're feeling in the car.
I'll have to admit, I've been watching a lot of NASCAR over the past couple of years, and for all the grief they get for "not being able to turn right", there is a lot of skill needed to keep those cars pointed in the right direction and going fast.

As they like to say in NASCAR: "If you're in total control, you aren't driving fast enough"

benjaminh · May 2018

My wife's 2013 Accord has Takata airbags. Honda has recalled all Accords up to 2012 with Takata airbags, and it's a good guess the 2013s are next—but when that might be is unknown. It could be a few months from now or maybe a year from now? Honda is already recalling some 2013 and even later Honda and Acura vehicles with Takata airbags, which I assume are essentially identical to what's in my wife's 2013 Accord. I'm hoping Honda is on top of this, but it does make me a little nervous. Living in Kentucky we have humid conditions, which I think is a factor in the deterioration of the explosives used for these airbags.

stickguy · May 2018

I had them replaced on my 2013 RDX. Was notified. About them a few years back I think.

john4545 · May 2018

My friends 2006 Honda pilot was in a front end crash at 45 mph. His front airbag never deployed . I always wondered how effective these airbags are after 10 plus years in vehicles

suydam · May 2018

benjaminh said:
My wife's 2013 Accord has Takata airbags. Honda has recalled all Accords up to 2012 with Takata airbags, and it's a good guess the 2013s are next—but when that might be is unknown. It could be a few months from now or maybe a year from now? Honda is already recalling some 2013 and even later Honda and Acura vehicles with Takata airbags, which I assume are essentially identical to what's in my wife's 2013 Accord. I'm hoping Honda is on top of this, but it does make me a little nervous. Living in Kentucky we have humid conditions, which I think is a factor in the deterioration of the explosives used for these airbags.

Are you sure they are Takatas? I don’t believe my 2013 Accord had them.

stickguy · May 2018

Another sedan advantage. Washed the Elantra today. Can get to the entire roof without any kind of stool.

benjaminh · May 2018

suydam said:

benjaminh said:
My wife's 2013 Accord has Takata airbags. Honda has recalled all Accords up to 2012 with Takata airbags, and it's a good guess the 2013s are next—but when that might be is unknown. It could be a few months from now or maybe a year from now? Honda is already recalling some 2013 and even later Honda and Acura vehicles with Takata airbags, which I assume are essentially identical to what's in my wife's 2013 Accord. I'm hoping Honda is on top of this, but it does make me a little nervous. Living in Kentucky we have humid conditions, which I think is a factor in the deterioration of the explosives used for these airbags.
Are you sure they are Takatas? I don’t believe my 2013 Accord had them.

Pretty sure. But not absolutely certain. I remember reading that Honda was so mad at Takata that they were going to stop buying their airbags for the Accord from them starting with the 2018 model year. Seems like that meant that before 2018 the airbags in the Accord were Takata. If true, this would also mean that my 2016 Accord has Takatas. But I think we're just going to have to trust that Honda knows what they are doing, and that they will replace our airbags if and when needed.

benjaminh · May 2018

Did some test driving of cars today, but the numbers on our trade didn't work out....

Anyway, the all-new 2018 Camry is nice in the base trim. But it felt a bit cramped to me, both in front and esp. in the back for a midsize car. Otherwise, however, good materials and nice package.

But the great value for the money on some Toyota lots right now are the leftover 2018 Avalons, which are about to make way for the all-new 2019 Avalon. The 2018 Avalon is the Buick/Cadillac of Toyotas, and it's very well done. It's better than any Buick, probably, with lots of room and luxury and features. They had a hybrid Avalon on the lot for almost $9000 off of msrp. Msrp was c.40k, and it was marked down to c.31.5k. Lovely interior. Much, much nicer and roomier than a Camry, and you can have a top-of-the-line Avalon for the same price as a mid-level Camry. Liked it a lot, actually. The exterior styling is maybe traditional, but moderately handsome imho.

Next I test drove the all-new 2018 Accord Hybrid EXL. The styling of the Avalon may say "older person's car," while the new Accord is more contemporary and youthful, but kinda weird. But the interior of the new Accord, imho, knocks it out of the park. It's not only way better than a Camry, it's also better in most ways than even an Avalon. Best dashboard and steering wheel around in a midsize car at this point. Impressive features and quality. The Accord Hybrid has nice pick-up and performance. Luxury features, quality and room. Much more room in the backseat than a Camry. The headroom in the back of the Accord was a little less than the Avalon, but the legroom in the back of the Accord seemed equal to the Avalon.

benjaminh · May 2018

Some midsize sales figures for April....

Camry 29,848

Accord 21,751

Fusion 12,871

Altima 10,400

Sonata 9,616

Optima 8,276

Passat 4,044

Mazda6 2,909

andres3 · May 2018

benjaminh said:
Some midsize sales figures for April....

Camry 29,848

Accord 21,751

Fusion 12,871

Altima 10,400

Sonata 9,616

Optima 8,276

Passat 4,044

Mazda6 2,909

Ford seems to be doing respectably. Sonata/Optima combined is easily #3. Altima must be 90% fleet sales.

benjaminh · May 2018

Compact/midsize sales for April....

Civic 28,399

Corolla 25,896

Sentra 16,999

Elantra 14,044

Focus 13,001

Forte 9,199

Impreza 5,833

Mazda3 4,725

Jetta 4,313

stickguy · May 2018

must be fleet sales in there too. Or a lot of really cheap people. Because the 2nd and 3rd sellers are really long in the tooth.

backy · May 2018

I went to a Mazda6 event at my local dealer last night, drawn by the promise of free food, test drives, and a coupon for $500 off any new Mazda. My son and I got there a bit early to ensure we could find a parking place. We didn't need to worry about that--plenty of parking spaces. There were more sales people there than customers--maybe only a half-dozen at most including my son and me. Probably the fact it's Fishing Opener weekend (which draws about 20% of the state's population to the lakes) had something to do with it. But I think it's more because there just isn't that much interest in the Mazda6, or mid-sized cars in general. Too bad, because it's a gorgeous car IMO, especially in Soul Red (they had one of those on the showfloor).

I talked with a sales rep for awhile about the next-gen Mazda3, which he said should be in dealerships next February or March. He gave me some details on the Skyactiv-X compression-ignition engine, which will debut in the Mazda3. If it does get 20-30% better FE with more power as claimed, I'm going to have to take a long look at it when my Forte5 lease is up next March. In Soul Red of course.

P.S. the food was great!

berri · May 2018

I wonder if Ford will start dumping sedans into the rental fleets now that they are dropping most of them?

akirby · May 2018

Fusion sedan isn’t going away for 3 years at least and they’ve already stopped Focus production. No reason to fleet dump.

benjaminh · May 2018

Ford has been selling a lot of Fusions as rental cars since it came out. I've had a Fusion more than once as a rental car. And now that the model is going to be dead by c. 2020, it's a good guess that more are going to rental fleets in the future. Retail sales of the Fusion have been falling like a rock.

ab348 · May 2018

benjaminh said:
Ford has been selling a lot of Fusions as rental cars since it came out. I've had a Fusion more than once as a rental car. And now that the model is going to be dead by c. 2020, it's a good guess that more are going to rental fleets in the future. Retail sales of the Fusion have been falling like a rock.

True enough. Arund here the Ford dealers keep just a few new Fusions in stock, but their used lots are full of 1 year-old ex-rental models. Most of them are SE trims, but almost all have the upgrade package that gets the Ecoboost 2.0T engine and the things that go with it. Occasionally you find a Titanium trim there which would be the one to get.

akirby · May 2018

I think they’ll cut Fusion production before they start fleet dumping.

benjaminh · May 2018

The most luxurious car I ever owned was a 1988 Oldsmobile 98, which we bought when it was ten years old. It was pretty much a one-owner car (the original owner had passed it on to his daughter, who was in med school) and it was in very good condition. Outside it looked a lot like this one below, while inside it looked like the image below too—except in blue. Yes, it was the Cadillac of Oldsmobiles, and really close to that in terms of luxury. The fabrics for those couch-like seats were actually as soft and comfortable as they looked. I'm ashamed to say it, but I actually liked touching that upholstery. For the 1985 model year, the Olds 98 was massively downsized on the outside, and lost c.900 lbs of weight, but interior room was similar to the barge-like 1984 model. My 1988 Olds 98 was still a big car, especially compared to a 1988 Accord. But now that my wife and I are considering maybe someday getting a 2018 Honda Accord Hybrid, which seems kinda big, I realized with a shock that in fact it's about the same size as a 1988 Olds 98....

benjaminh · May 2018

Here are some of the specs for the 1988 Olds 98: wheelbase 110", length 196", width 72", rear legroom 40.8, trunk 16.2, 0-60 c.10 seconds, combined mpg c.20.

Here are some of the specs for the 2018 Accord Hybrid: wheelbase 111.4, length 192.2, width 73.3, rear legroom 40.4, trunk 16.7, 0-60 c.7.2, mpg c. 47.

And, finally, here are some specs for the 1988 Accord: wb 102, length 175, width 67.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

benjaminh said:
The most luxurious car I ever owned was a 1988 Oldsmobile 98, which we bought when it was ten years old. It was pretty much a one-owner car (the original owner had passed it on to his daughter, who was in med school) and it was in very good condition. Outside it looked a lot like this one below, while inside it looked like the image below too—except in blue. Yes, it was the Cadillac of Oldsmobiles, and really close to that in terms of luxury. The fabrics for those couch-like seats were actually as soft and comfortable as they looked. I'm ashamed to say it, but I actually liked touching that upholstery. For the 1985 model year, the Olds 98 was massively downsized on the outside, and lost c.900 lbs of weight, but interior room was similar to the barge-like 1984 model. My 1988 Olds 98 was still a big car, especially compared to a 1988 Accord. But now that my wife and I are considering maybe someday getting a 2018 Honda Accord Hybrid, which seems kinda big, I realized with a shock that in fact it's about the same size as a 1988 Olds 98....

Wow. Looks like a realtor's den.

berri · May 2018

Bordello red - I was thinking something else

stickguy · May 2018

checked out a new Jetta today. Huge inside. and at 185" long, IMO solidly in the mid size sedan category too.

benjaminh · May 2018

berri said:
Bordello red - I was thinking something else

lol! My actual Olds 98 was blue inside, thank goodness!

benjaminh · May 2018

stickguy said:
checked out a new Jetta today. Huge inside. and at 185" long, IMO solidly in the mid size sedan category too.

Have you considered the Golf Sportwagen or the Passat?

explorerx4 · May 2018

The Accord has been classified as large for several years now.
Taking a tip to Ohio at the end of next week and will be taking the Fusion.
Now that the gas switched back to the summer blend, mileage is back up to around 29 mpg.
That's about 10 percent higher than I get in the winter.

thebean · May 2018

We just got back from a Texas to Great Lakes road trip in the Accord, that covered 3,300 miles. I got 36.8 mpg for the entire trip, which was far from all highway miles. My high mpg tank was 39.3 mpg in Minnesota. With the Accord now 3.5 years old, I just turned 27K on the odometer. It did everything we needed on the trip, even though it is an "outdated" sedan. For the 2-3 times a year I need a utility vehicle, renting one makes ultimate sense. I am pretty sure I'll be keeping the Accord a long tine.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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