Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen · May 2018

explorerx4 said:

The question is, which turbo went bad?

The expensive one

andres3 · May 2018

Well, that clean old A6 with the 4.2 V8 sold quickly, so I won't have an opportunity to play a dangerous game.

It had a very nice light colored interior though! That alone has to be worth $2,500 as a paper weight.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

andres3 said:
Well, that clean old A6 with the 4.2 V8 sold quickly, so I won't have an opportunity to play a dangerous game.

It had a very nice light colored interior though! That alone has to be worth $2,500 as a paper weight.

Consider returning to your local church and saying a prayer of gratitude for your deliverance.

I think you could have a mound of gravel delivered to your driveway for considerably less money, and to greater purpose.

isellhondas · May 2018

His money? Oh no! He thinks I should buy it as a "hobby car"! Your responses were as expected! Thanks!

Mr_Shiftright said:
Wait...it gets worse. If you buy a 2004 Audi S4 with the timing chain instead of the belt, you're better off, right. RIGHT?

Er, no.

Inasmuch as Audi proclaimed this timing chain as a "forever part", they put it against the firewall.

Joke's on us. Turns out the timing chain needs to be serviced (pulleys, tensioners, etc).

That's an engine out job, with a labor rate of (gasp) 31 hours.

OK, so four grand in labor plus another grand in parts....oops, another totaled car!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

My friends at the Audi shop figure around $6,000. Of course, that depends on how lucky you are. I mean, with the engine out and the complete front end of the car removed, the opportunities to address other issues are endless---new belts, hoses, re-seal the engine, vacuum lines, water pump, all new filters and oil, motor mounts, maybe some suspension, trans fluid flush--the beat goes on!

Well, if an old Audi passes its PPI, and it's really cheap, it might be worth a gamble---the problem is that you get nickeled and dimed, even if you don't get totaled. You get "invested"---"well, it's only another $350---it's only another $575----and well, every car needs tires and brakes".

Personally I've learned like Ulysses, to plug my ears with wax and not listen to the Siren's song. (the hard way).

omarman · May 2018

But he didn't! He warned Edmunds members (his crew) to plug their own ears and tie him to the mast!
He wanted to hear the siren's song.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

Oh, that's RIGHT. So much for my college education. I suppose I was projecting there--nobody to tie me to the mast. I'm still not to be trusted.

isellhondas · May 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
My friends at the Audi shop figure around $6,000. Of course, that depends on how lucky you are. I mean, with the engine out and the complete front end of the car removed, the opportunities to address other issues are endless---new belts, hoses, re-seal the engine, vacuum lines, water pump, all new filters and oil, motor mounts, maybe some suspension, trans fluid flush--the beat goes on!

Well, if an old Audi passes its PPI, and it's really cheap, it might be worth a gamble---the problem is that you get nickeled and dimed, even if you don't get totaled. You get "invested"---"well, it's only another $350---it's only another $575----and well, every car needs tires and brakes".

Personally I've learned like Ulysses, to plug my ears with wax and not listen to the Siren's song. (the hard way).

The store where I worked got burned on so many Audis that were traded in that our GM gave the order that EVERY one that came in would be wholesaled. They had taken too many huge losses on what seemed to be nice ones when they were traded in. Overnight, the CEL lights would come on and the A/C would quit working etc. Land Rovers were NEVER kept! Even the ones still under warranty. Just too much trouble!

isellhondas · May 2018

A question for Mr. S.

Since you have your finger on the pulse I have heard that the often shunned lowly 912 and 914's have come alive and are bringing huge money at the auction. Is this true? What would a nice one bring?

omarman · May 2018

Land Rovers were NEVER kept! Even the ones still under warranty. Just too much trouble!

Wow. If the GM won't keep a luxury brand on his lot then it's just one more siren song to avoid at any price.

isellhondas · May 2018

omarman said:
Land Rovers were NEVER kept! Even the ones still under warranty. Just too much trouble!

Wow. If the GM won't keep a luxury brand on his lot then it's just one more siren song to avoid at any price.

Excuse me but we kept a LOT of luxury brands on our lot and did quite well with them. We scoured the auctions for the best ones we could find. If you have ever had much experience with Land Rovers you would know why we were afraid of them! They are cool cars to be sure but nothing but trouble! Expensive trouble!

omarman · May 2018

If you have ever had much experience with Land Rovers you would know why we were afraid of them!

That could be the new Land Rover logo. A bit longish though.

steine13 · May 2018

I didn't know that's really what it looks like ... so I googled it to make sure... you got to give them credit, there's not another car company that puts the "open hood for service" symbol right on their logo!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

isellhondas said:
A question for Mr. S.

Since you have your finger on the pulse I have heard that the often shunned lowly 912 and 914's have come alive and are bringing huge money at the auction. Is this true? What would a nice one bring?

The 912s are bringing very strong money, and why not? They are, after all, very similar looking to a 911, with the same basic engine as the earlier 356s, so they should live somewhere in the same company. They don't bring 356 or 911 money, but they are strong. 912Es are considerably less valuable, but still being pulled up by their older brethren.

914s are a mixed bag, and nowhere near as strong in the marketplace. But here again, they are legitimately the "Pre-Boxster". The 2.0L and the 914/6 are much preferred.

The problem with the 914 is that it's not as easy to restore as a VW, even though it has a VW engine. You can easily outrun the value of the car in an attempt to make it nice. The 912 gives you more room for improvement.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

isellhondas said:

omarman said:
Land Rovers were NEVER kept! Even the ones still under warranty. Just too much trouble!

Wow. If the GM won't keep a luxury brand on his lot then it's just one more siren song to avoid at any price.
Excuse me but we kept a LOT of luxury brands on our lot and did quite well with them. We scoured the auctions for the best ones we could find. If you have ever had much experience with Land Rovers you would know why we were afraid of them! They are cool cars to be sure but nothing but trouble! Expensive trouble!

My friend's dealership also had a large used car operation (not the same people who have the Audi repair shop) and he banned Audis for resale as well, although with early Jettas and a few other makes. I don't recall if he gambled on LRs or not. Of course, this was back in late 1990s/early 2000s. Audi has improved the last decade I think. There certainly was lots of room for improvement.

andres3 · May 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
My friends at the Audi shop figure around $6,000. Of course, that depends on how lucky you are. I mean, with the engine out and the complete front end of the car removed, the opportunities to address other issues are endless---new belts, hoses, re-seal the engine, vacuum lines, water pump, all new filters and oil, motor mounts, maybe some suspension, trans fluid flush--the beat goes on!

Well, if an old Audi passes its PPI, and it's really cheap, it might be worth a gamble---the problem is that you get nickeled and dimed, even if you don't get totaled. You get "invested"---"well, it's only another $350---it's only another $575----and well, every car needs tires and brakes".

Personally I've learned like Ulysses, to plug my ears with wax and not listen to the Siren's song. (the hard way).

Sounds like the story and experience of my old Neon.

Except maybe it was $250 here, $475 there, and of course 4 figures each time you rebuild the transmission, head gaskets, or AC system.

I guess getting my first Audi in 2006 was good luck, as it seems they had their act together since then. I've had my cake and I've ate it too!

Lots of used '06-'10 A3 hatches on the used car market now it seems. Many high miles too.

lemmer · May 2018

I just owned a 2007 MINI Cooper S for a week.

After selling my Boxster S, my wife and I agreed that if I bought another European car, a CPO warranty would probably be best. So, of course I got excited and ignored my own advice and bought a MINI on a whim.

A friend of mine found it out of town, checked it out, and bought it for me, but agreed if for any reason I didn't want it, he was willing to take it. He didn't necessarily want to take it...

So, I decided to impress my wife by driving her around in it. It started...and stalled. Three times. Then ran rough for about twenty seconds. The wife was already done with it at this point, even though I assured that a new fuel pump and an hour's work, and it would be as good as new. I didn't mention that the handbrake trim came off the first time I tried to use it, the radio display completely fades out when it is hot outside, the sunroof shade was prone to falling out, various other interior pieces were held on by glue, tape, and a prayer...

The records showed in the previous two years, the owner had overheated it once and had the water pump and various hoses replaced. Then he possibly overheated it again and had the thermostat and various other things replaced.

All this reminded me of why I didn't want an out of warranty MINI in the first place. So I told my friend about everything I had found, and he still seemed fine with taking it back. So I left it with him.

Super fun car with a unique driving experience, though.

stickguy · May 2018

Ouch.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

Gee, why does so much of that list sound familiar?

If you stick with these cars, just keep pounding on them until you correct the a) factory defects; b) miserable build quality--you can actually make a reliable car out of it. There are all kinds of aftermarket "corrections" for the first generation Minis.

But if you were having sunroof problems, then good thing you gave the car to someone else---that's one helluva pricey item to fix.

andres3 · May 2018

https://youtu.be/4NJmB1F2mdE

This is how you deal with a car that has a pricey item to fix; only do it at night for goodness sake!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

Yeah I heard they busted that guy for fraud.

lemmer · May 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
Gee, why does so much of that list sound familiar?

If you stick with these cars, just keep pounding on them until you correct the a) factory defects; b) miserable build quality--you can actually make a reliable car out of it. There are all kinds of aftermarket "corrections" for the first generation Minis.

But if you were having sunroof problems, then good thing you gave the car to someone else---that's one helluva pricey item to fix.

The sunroof itself was ok. I suppose you could just rip out the sunshade that was causing the problems.

The MINI was my shortest car "ownership"...well, sort of tied with a BMW M5. I was playing around at Carmax, maybe three years ago, and came across a 2008 M5 with the V10 and the SMG transmission. I got excited enough to buy it, knowing that it had a seven day return policy and I could get a Carmax full warranty on it. The engine was just awesome. But it felt bigger than it actually was, which is opposite of my normal BMW experience. It was a miserable car for commuting. The transmission was clunky and the power was unusable on normal roads. I returned it after four days.

isellhondas · May 2018

OK, here is another one to take a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2040374172886009
Opinions, please.....

fintail · May 2018

Cheaper on CL

I am a little iffy about the seating and stereo, not fond of the anachronistic wheels. The few diehards for these cars like them original. If you like it, it might be OK, but there's no real upside - maintenance will not be cheap, and you'll get 15 mpg on premium everywhere you go.

This glorious green on green early (the one to have) car brought under 7K at auction back in 09 - this is the kind you want to find.

isellhondas said:
OK, here is another one to take a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2040374172886009
Opinions, please.....

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

isellhondas said:
OK, here is another one to take a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2040374172886009
Opinions, please.....

Oh the one car Doug DeMuro absolutely loathes.

qbrozen · May 2018

isellhondas said:
OK, here is another one to take a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2040374172886009
Opinions, please.....

I can't speak to that model, but as far as value, I think it is certainly there for a measly $3k.

andres3 · May 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
Yeah I heard they busted that guy for fraud.

I heard the same too. I wonder how much time he ends up actually doing? Perhaps more than the shop time the car would have taken.

Hence, why you should do such a thing under the cloak of darkness and exercise some discretion. As they say, money doesn't buy intelligence.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

qbrozen said:

isellhondas said:
OK, here is another one to take a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2040374172886009
Opinions, please.....

I can't speak to that model, but as far as value, I think it is certainly there for a measly $3k.

Maybe, maybe not. Sports Car Market puts median auction value at $5K for a nice one, with an overall collectibility grade of "F" and an annual appreciation rate of 0%.

Cars of Particular Interest (CPI) rates a "fair" one at $3,375.

So $3,500 is about market correct unless it were pristine with zero needs---then perhaps $5K-$6K.

qbrozen · May 2018

so, there ya go. that's like 10% off! And that's before negotiating.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

Q, don't get me wound up on these cars. I really don't like them but I want to be nice to people who do.

tjc78 · May 2018

fintail said:
Cheaper on CL

I am a little iffy about the seating and stereo, not fond of the anachronistic wheels. The few diehards for these cars like them original. If you like it, it might be OK, but there's no real upside - maintenance will not be cheap, and you'll get 15 mpg on premium everywhere you go.

This glorious green on green early (the one to have) car brought under 7K at auction back in 09 - this is the kind you want to find.

isellhondas said:
OK, here is another one to take a look at!
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2040374172886009
Opinions, please.....

Didn’t you post the green one before? I could have sworn I’ve seen it.

fintail · May 2018

Yep, a couple times I think. That color combo pushes my buttons. That might be the nicest looking SLC I've ever seen.

tjc78 said:

Didn’t you post the green one before? I could have sworn I’ve seen it.

qbrozen · May 2018

Wrong color, wrong body style, wrong engine ... should be the cheapest complete XKE you could buy if so inclined.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-jaguar-xke-coupe-7/

texases · May 2018

I don't think that's a 'leather' wrap on the steering wheel. Wonder what's wrong? Guess a replacement wouldn't be too hard to find. But that color!

ab348 · May 2018

Seller just posted a pic of the steering wheel without the cover, looked not bad. Maybe he bought the cover the same day he bought the awful sunroof!

texases · May 2018

Yes, looks like it just needs to be refinished. Much better than the $9.95 Pep Boys wrap! And ugh, I missed that 'sunroof', doesn't even let in any sun!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

qbrozen said:
Wrong color, wrong body style, wrong engine ... should be the cheapest complete XKE you could buy if so inclined.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-jaguar-xke-coupe-7/

What's wrong with the body style?--it's not a 2+2, which is the turkey of the bunch, and it is a Series I car.

But you are absolutely right, the color is a downer.

At current bid, it would be quite the bargain--but it's not going to stay there. These cars are a devil to restore, so it would need a very careful PPI. Lots of room though, to make a profit, but there's still 5 days to go.

qbrozen · May 2018

not a 2+2 but not a roadster, which is where the money is, of course.

I feel like 28k is already high but I have zero reason other than just my gut reaction to it.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

We'd have to see the car. An E-Type is one of those cars that you simply do not buy blind. This could be a very good deal, or it could be a murderous disaster.

This car, restored, could easily break $100K, but regardless, the color is going to probably cost you 20%. If I were buying it cheap, I'd just change the color during the full restoration---red or green, perhaps metallic blue.

fintail · May 2018

That sunroof though LOL never seen anything like that before.

qbrozen · May 2018

100k?! Wow. Doesn't seem like all that long ago a 6-cyl hardtops were in the $30s.
i must be getting old.

what are 2+2s up to?

ab348 · May 2018

fintail said:
That sunroof though LOL never seen anything like that before.

They were quite popular on clapped-out econoboxes in the '80s.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

qbrozen said:
100k?! Wow. Doesn't seem like all that long ago a 6-cyl hardtops were in the $30s.
i must be getting old.

what are 2+2s up to?

2+2s are actually going down in value, but median auction value is still around $60K. Of course, restoring one of these E-Types of any stripe is going to be a losing proposition, even at $100K.

fintail · May 2018

Exactly, I have seen them on 78 Pintos, but never on an E-Type.

ab348 said:

They were quite popular on clapped-out econoboxes in the '80s.

texases · May 2018

fintail said:
Exactly, I have seen them on 78 Pintos, but never on an E-Type.

ab348 said:

They were quite popular on clapped-out econoboxes in the '80s.

At least I found out where they got it:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/details/CR_Laurence/Sunroof/CLCNP1828B5HD.html#plpslot1

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

Not factory obviously. I think you could have an aftermarket sliding type installed--they were made by "Webasto" and had installers around the U.S.

I didn't notice that sunroof before---that would have to be eliminated during the restoration somehow.

qbrozen · May 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

100k?! Wow. Doesn't seem like all that long ago a 6-cyl hardtops were in the $30s.
i must be getting old.

what are 2+2s up to?
2+2s are actually going down in value, but median auction value is still around $60K. Of course, restoring one of these E-Types of any stripe is going to be a losing proposition, even at $100K.

Still WAYY up from what I remember.

explorerx4 · May 2018

I like that Jag, but the color makes it look like a thumb.
The sunroof is awful.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2018

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:
100k?! Wow. Doesn't seem like all that long ago a 6-cyl hardtops were in the $30s.
i must be getting old.

what are 2+2s up to?
2+2s are actually going down in value, but median auction value is still around $60K. Of course, restoring one of these E-Types of any stripe is going to be a losing proposition, even at $100K.

Still WAYY up from what I remember.

Values on the 2+2 are going DOWN, at least 8% this year alone.

Keep in mind, that the 2+2 is the very cheapest way into any Series One E-Type, and they often came with automatics, so for the older buyer who always wanted an E-Type, this is a way in.

If this were a Series Two E-Type 2+2, the value would be more like you remember.

texases · May 2018

Is the 4.2 much of a deduct?

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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