Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

mtnshopper · April 2001

When I bought my Mazda at a dealer in Phoenix, I had to go immediately to a gas station as soon as I drove off the lot because they sent me away on _empty_. And that was the most minor of the offenses committed by that particular dealership during the purchase.

Becky

ateixeira · April 2001

The Mazda dealer that sold us our 626 gave it to us with a half tank, and an $8 voucher for gas down the street - which we had to pump ourselves! It was not even enough to fill the tank!

Stupid little things like that can ruin a buying experience. It would have taken 5 minutes and maybe $2 more to make a customer happy.

Our Soob dealer was better - it was clean and full of gas. I still didn't like their bait-n-switch tactics, though.

-juice

secretariat73 · April 2001

The 2002 Foresters are out now in my area (Louisville, KY) and I am thinking about either the 2001 or 2001 S model. What would be a fair price (as compared to invoice) for what is now a "leftover" 2001 model, or is the difference going to be so minor that I might as well go for a 2002?

Also, are there any "hidden" incentives for dealers to unload the 2001s? On my visit to the dealer, he mentioned that it had been a slow winter for sales, but I suspect that's a regional thing, as I've heard Sube sales are up overall this year versus last year.

-Steven-

ateixeira · April 2001

Subaru has never offered cash incentives on the Forester, but low finance rates are available.

I imagine the 2002s will get those same rates within a few months, if you can wait. The price is only up $60 (for freight), and the now standard cargo cover more than pays for that difference. Plus, you get a 2nd speed for the rear wiper and DRLs, not to mention better resale value.

Then again, you could argue to wait for the 2003s, even.

-juice

p0926 · April 2001

Steven- Many Subaru dealers sell Foresters fairly close to invoice already and if your's is one of them, you might as well go for the 2002. However, I'm pretty sure that SOA has a low finance offer in place for all remaining 2001's, which could make a difference if you're planning to finance.

-Frank P.

nygreg · April 2001

Steven: Not sure if it will help, but, today I got a price quote over the phone for about $100 over invoice for 01 Outback. If they give a fair amount for my trade on Thursday I will probably bite. I'm also seeing 2.9% financing (24 mos) as mentioned by Frank.

-Greg

wanabe33 · April 2001

Greg - not sure if this may help you but www.fitzmall.com is selling 01 outbacks at $800 below invoice till Sunday then they will be about $450 below invoice. That price includes dest and proc. (everything but taxes.) I am buying my White 01 on Sunday with Wood, Sec upgrade and air filt for $21619..

secretariat73 · April 2001

Very helpful data. I guess that my implicit question was "How much over invoice will dealers go for the 2002's?" Yes, if there's no real difference between the two, then obviously the 2002 makes a great deal more sense. However, I have always seen a fairly significant difference in how dealers will price "leftover" models in the past, it seems unusual that Subaru dealers would not differentiate between the two years.

Also, does anyone have any experience with dealers in the Louisville (Bachman, Neil Huffman) area and Cincinnati (Beechmont, Subaru Towne) area? Someone from Bachman mentioned that their service department was ranked #1 in the USA by CSI; if that's true, than it behooves me to buy there.

-Steven-

ateixeira · April 2001

Anyone who plans to buy at Fitz let me know - I can get a referral fee and I'd be willing to split it with you, or pay for an SCOA membership for you.

-juice

nygreg · April 2001

Thank you. I contacted Fitz and they do indeed have great prices. However, I would need to drive down from NY (above NYC) or have the car shipped for ~$400. If I ship the car and it is damaged it will be mine anyway although insurance will fix it. Then there is the problem of my trade in. Bottom line - best to drive down, but with 3 kids and the wife and I working I can't seem to find the time.

-Greg

paisan · April 2001

Try calling Ira or Mark @ Staten Island Subaru, it's not as far and they'll do well by you. Tell em Mike from Edmunds sent you and he'll cut you a good deal. Their # is 718-979-9595

-mike

orthobill · April 2001

juice - I am strongly considering buying from Fitz and having them ship to any one of a number of possible locations where I will be over the next few months.

I hear there have been some recent Sube financing changes. Can anyone give me a rundown of what they are for the various lengths of time?

Anyone know of changes for the 2002 Outbacks? LL Bean in particular. Any suggestions on considering the 2001 vs. the 2002, presuming I could save some money on a 2002?

I have been speaking to my local dealer in Kansas City (Jack Miller Subaru) and they are really putting the screws to me on my trade-in. Otherwise, I was OK with the price ($100 over invoice). They have been so rude regarding the trade-in that I refuse to do business with them now.

Thanks for any input.

Bill (Dave) Johnson

hammersley · April 2001

Given any thought to selling your car separately? If you can, you might consider it. Finance the car without the trade in, then use the proceeds to pay down or refinance the original loan. Might pay off in the long run. Might be fun to take the dealer up on the $100 over offer *without* the trade in... payback! FWIW. YMMV.

Cheers!
Paul

p0926 · April 2001

Steven- There's a good chance that you're not going to save a significant amount by buying a 2001. This time last year I was able to order a 2001 Forester for $50 less than the dealer wanted for a comparable 2000. Since many Subaru dealers are already willing to sell close to invoice, there isn't much room for bargaining over the model year. I think that other manufacturer's dealers offer bigger model year closeout deals because they're getting cash back from the manufacturer. To my knowledge, SOA doesn't offer either cash incentives or rebates (one would assume because Subes sell quite well without them).

-Frank P.

subaru_team · April 2001

Pay for gas?? I'd suggest you contact the Sales Manager. You can feel free to say that you were told by SOA that the vehicle is supposed to be sold with a full tank of gas and that we (SOA) pay for that. I think a refund is in order? It could be that the Sales person was not familiar with our "policy" on that.

Let me know if you need help!

Patti

p0926 · April 2001

Thanks for that useful tidbit of info Patti! Any bets on whether the dealer still billed SOA for a full tank of gas? FYI: My Forester did come with a full tank.

-Frank P.

originalbitman · April 2001

Both of my GT wagons came with a full tank.

Hi patti! Thanks again!
bit

ateixeira · April 2001

Another Dave! Yes!

The 2002 VDC sedan has different tires - Potenzas instead of Wilderness. Plus a VDC off switch. I'm not sure if the others will get the tires, and no other changes were announced.

Consider selling your current car to Car Max. They pay better than dealers do, I've heard.

-juice

paisan · April 2001

Yep, I know 2 guys who did well there. I may be interested in a VDC sedan and converting it over to a H6 Legacy GT... Hmm what a thought that would be. Then slap a turbo onto it. Imagine 3.0l Turbo H6 in a GT?

-mike

nygreg · April 2001

Thank you for SIs phone number. I might give them a try, but, the deal would need to be really good for me to drive down. I don't want to use your name and then tell them they are too far - i.e. I want to preserve your stellar rep!

Anyway, another dealer today is giving me the car for basically invoice, but, $500 less on my trade than I wanted. Do you think Staten Island Sub will go much below invoice? If not, I will probably sign with Danbury Sub tomorrow night.

BTW, test drove the car again. I really wish it had more power, or that I can convince the boss to get a stick. Oh well, love the car anyway.

-Greg

paisan · April 2001

They'd probably be in the invoice range. But not sure on the trades, from what I hear they don't do well on trades, since it's a different dept. that takes care of the trades. But if you are backed up against a wall, feel free to call em.

-mike

nygreg · April 2001

Thank you. I will keep them as a last resort.

-Greg

mwwst · April 2001

Patti,

It was $12 for 6 gallons of gas. They did top it off at no additional charge when I picked it up yesterday. I can't say that $12 is worth making a big deal of - I'm just glad to finally have the car.

Purchase experiance: I bought at Cityside Subaru in Arlington, MA. I can't say that I'm super pleased with the transaction but neither can I say I'm overly disappointed with it. I got what I believe is a rare vehicle ('01 GT wagon, black, 5 spd) at invoice and got a decent trade on my '95 corolla wagon with 120,000 miles on it. There were no frills to the transaction, but there were also no delays or headaches. I test drove the car on Monday and picked it up on Tuesday. The only disapointment I had is that after I got home and started going through the paperwork I found a "Subaru recommended dealer preparation checklist" and a "Dealer Preparation Checklist" that were not filled out at all. Apparently there are a number of items on the vehicle that should have been checked by the dealer's service department and then gone over with me before I left the dealership. This was not discussed with me before I left. Does it mean the dealer never ran through the checklists on his own? I don't know. Is this something that is required? Again, I don't know. But what I do know is that I feel as though I didn't get the full treatment that I should have. Hence the slight disappointment.

On a better note, I LOVE this car!! I've already got 160 miles on it and love it more with each mile. I'll report later once I've had a little more time behind the wheel.

MWWST

originalbitman · April 2001

Congrats on the new GT wagon. Black looks great. Good deal too!
Don't forget to read the section of you owners manual on the break-in period.
bit

mwwst · April 2001

Bit,

Why do you think I've put so many miles on it already? I'm trying to get through the first 1,000 miles as quickly as I can so I can really have fun!

MWWST

nygreg · April 2001

so here's the story. Since only two dealers really appear to want my business (others aren't very responsive). Team 1 = Danbury, $23,090 with single cd, awp, auto and questionable addition to tags. loaner during maintenance and 3500 mile servicing "free". Trade in value and final decision tomorrow night. Team 2 = Wappingers Falls, $23,100, 6 cd changer, awp, auto and probably $100 less on tags (confirm tomorrow). Service is so-so. And the winner is.....to be decided by Friday. Still some negotiations to be done.

-Greg

P.S. Great game between Pitts and Wash right now. In sudden death.

hammersley · April 2001

This is going to be a challenge... SubaruChat btw. 5 & 6... simultaneous hockey games on ESPN and ESPN2 at 4:30... lessee... type with one hand... remote control in the other... I need a third hand for the beer!

Cheers! (and I mean that sincerely!
Paul

pattim3 · April 2001

I doubt that the dealer didn't do the Pre-Delivery Inspection, but double check with them. We put the forms in the glove compartment to make it easier for the dealer, but most keep a stack on hand when the take delivery of a vehicle. They should have reviewed it with you. Ask Joe Ciseck (sp) about it - I think he is the Service Manager there. He is a decent guy. I'd also suggest that you talk to him about the fuel. He needs to know. Also, answer the New Purchase survey accurately when you get it. It's important that the dealer's scores reflect what happened so that they and us can focus on improvements.

Thanks!

Patti

nygreg · April 2001

Listening Patti?...OK here it goes. Purchased my Sienna from Wappingers Falls Toyota / Subaru (NY) last year. Went back and test drove the OB and spoke with saleman #1 about a month ago. Sent an e-mail last week asking about price. "Internet manager" (read: regular sales guy) sent a reply to call. I did. Didn't want to be bothered and never responded back with quote. Called salesman #1 and left a message with what I was looking for and price. Several days go by - no call. Hmmm? Drove over there on Tuesday and met salesman #2. Figuring I owed SM #1 my business I asked for him. SM #2 said he didn't know him. OK, I know turnover is high there and SM #1 didn't return my call so I deal with SM #2. Got the car down, deal down and have my car appraised. SM #2 calls the next day and did a bait and switch. I misunderstood that the car we agreed upon was a different color - yea, right! Went to different dealership who was very professional - and bought the car. Today, I get call from SM #1 apologizing for not getting back to me, but, he was out the last few days. Told him the story and needless to say he was not pleased. Then today I'm in that dealerships parts dept and noticed a mechanic putting on some wheels, but not in a star pattern. I think I 'll stay away from there.

Sorry to ramble,
-Greg

p0926 · April 2001

Patti- I'm curious about something. How does SOA handle the dealerships that score poorly in the new owner surveys? And do those that score well get rewarded somehow? I know other manufacturers actually send each dealership a monthly check with the amount based upon their buyer satisfaction score.

From what I've seen posted, Subaru seems to have little consistency in sales practices among dealerships. Some do an outstanding job with an attentive and knowledgeable staff and a low pressure sales environment while others either give you the high intensity sales pitch or else come across as caring less whether you buy from them or not. Then you have dealerships that routinely sell for slightly over invoice while others seem to demand MSRP (or higher for the WRX).

I realize that each Subaru dealer is an independent franchisee, and therefore there is only so much that SOA can do to keep him or her in line. However, it sure would be nice if there were a little more standardization between dealerships.

-Frank P.

P.S. FWIW: My buying experience with Conley Subaru of Decatur was outstanding.

bruticus · April 2001

World Subaru (Jeep also) in Tinton Falls, NJ. Marty Garland there was kind enough to let me test an auto WRX a couple weeks ago, when I was planning to place an order by end of April. Recently my company released some bad news, so I'm going to hold off on ordering until probably end May, to make sure I'm okay financially to do this (with my planned down payment, my monthly loan payment will be almost identical to what I pay on my current car, but that down payment money might have to serve as rent/food/etc in case my job evaporates)

When I called to tell Marty he was very polite and told me he sees no problem in getting a WRX later this spring/summer, and as soon as I'm ready to phone him again. I will definitely do that; what I've seen so far of World Subaru is pretty positive.

DjB

bat1161 · April 2001

Just got back from Flemington Subaru in NJ. Thanks to Paisan and everyone else who recommended them. It was definitely worth the ride. I got there 20 minutes late on a Sat when they close at noon, and still recived the full service treatment. The best part was when it came time for the bill, even though I was a first time customer, they gave me a slight discount,and they did not charge me for the fog lamp grill I had to replace! I even got some info on getting heated seats and lumbar support added to both front seats.(I learned about aftermarket heated seats on the MOD board.) Its nice to find a friendly service department!

Mark

mtnshopper · April 2001

I didn't get a pre-delivery check list either, and there is no such form anywhere in my car. I was shown how to work the car (seats, climate control, security, etc), but there was no discussion about service items that may have been performed prior to delivery.

And on a strange note, the day after I bought the car my face started to itch, swell, and turn red. I don't have a history of allergies. It got really bad as the week progressed. Now I'm on Zyrtec (antihistamine) and Prednisone. I thought I might be reacting to a cleaning product that was used to clean some grease off the interior right before I drove off the lot. But I also ate some peanuts the night I bought my LL Bean, although I've never been allergic to peanuts before. I'm hoping the peanuts are the culprit and not the Bean, or I'll be on Zyrtec for the next 10 years or so. Weird, huh?

Becky

p0926 · April 2001

Becky- I'd say it's highly unlikely that you're allergic to a car. And I don't think it's the peanuts either since the symptoms worsened as the week progressed. I'm no doctor but I'd guess that you've developed an allergy to some sort of pollen (the timing is too much of a coincidence). What does your doctor say?

-Frank P.

mtnshopper · April 2001

I see the doc tomorrow. Saw the physicians assistant Friday who said it looks like an allergic reaction to something from the inside out, much like hives. The day I bought the car, I picked up a friend who went to dinner with me and she had a sudden coughing attack all the way to the restaurant. That's why I thought it might be the cleaner that was used on the interior. It is indeed weird. It is springtime (although we have up to 8" of snow forecasted for this evening), and things are blooming and budding.

Becky

armac13 · April 2001

I hate to say this, but it might be a reaction to the car. My sales person, Susan, said that the out gassing from the plastics in Subarus always triggered her allergic reactions (multiple). She always tried to use demos that had been around for a few weeks since the out gassing tapers off fairly quickly. On my first test drive she asked if we could drive with the windows down as the car had only a few km. on it. Good luck.

Ross

mtnshopper · April 2001

Interesting. What is "out gassing?" Does that mean new plastic emits some chemical into the air? I think this car had been on the lot for a month or so, but I don't think it was used as a demo and probably was closed up the whole time. I was told it came off the truck and had been sitting on the lot and hadn't even been through their shop yet. It had 18 miles on it and I was told the dealership has been getting them from the factory with 15 to 19 miles on them because they are road tested at the factory. He said there were too many little problems that got past the factory when they arrived at the dealership with hardly any mileage on them, so now they are tested at the factory. ???

Becky

armac13 · April 2001

is exactly what you suggest. All plastics emit volatiles, often for years, but the worst is usually cleared up in a few weeks exposure to open air. The "new car smell" that we all know so well is due to out gassing. Susan seemed to feel that the plastics and carpeting used in Subarus caused more reaction in her than did those used in other cars. Even I noticed a slight reaction, although it may be due to suggestion. Try driving with the windows open for a few days. I did and the smell (and reaction?) quickly decreased.

Ross

p0926 · April 2001

Horrors! Who ever imagined that you could be "gassed" by your own car?

Becky- Let's hope that's not what's happening in your case.

-Frank P.

bigfrank3 · April 2001

is also what causes the film that gets on the inside of the windows, especially the windshield. The hot sun exacerbates the problem, especially in a totally closed vehicle.

Both my wife's and my Foresters arrived at the dealer with 8 miles on them. They had about 13 when delivered to us.

Regards,

Frank

bruticus · April 2001

I recently read a Consumer Reports study about this. Outgassing is at its highest when the car is brand-new, as the plastic etc is "fresh" and has lots of chemical-emission love to give. The rate of emission slopes off for the next few months, and then actually increases a little bit as the action of sun, external pollution, etc causes some parts of the plastic to age even faster. The rate then pretty much stays the same for the rest of the life of the car.

The report didn't compare cars with interiors of all plastic/vinyl against cars with leather, wood, etc. I, however, suspect that the decrease in out gassing from a leather/wood interior car wouldn't be a whole lot lower. There's all that carpet etc, plus lots of plastic behind the dash and in other places where you can't see it.

P0926, definitely talk with your doctor about this, and maybe ask if he thinks it's a good idea for you to try to get a few days in another car to see if your problems ease a little.

Best of luck to you. I really am thankful that the only a allergic reactions I have are after cutting a complete lawn straight through. (achoo!)

DjB

mtnshopper · April 2001

Thanks, All. This has been an informative thread. I'll mention it to the doc tomorrow. Unfortunately I gave my Mazda to Goodwill last week, so I don't have alternative transportation. But I've had the OB sitting with the windows and both moonroofs open most of the day, so hopefully that will help.

Becky

subearu · April 2001

Just a thought...

Do you have the in cabin air filter installed? I'm not sure if it's optional or included with the LL Bean. Maybe something is on the filter that's making you have the reaction? Not sure how you'd be able to tell - smell or color perhaps. Instructions for changing the filter are in your glove box. (in fact, I think you need to remove the glove box to get at it - haven't done this yet myself)

If it is the plastics and such, would rinsing them down with water help? (Wipe the dash and trim with a clean damp rag, rinsing it often) I know that the plastics will outgas, but perhaps this rinsing would help in the short term?

-Brian

mtnshopper · April 2001

I think I have the air filter. The sticker lists "air conditioning & air filtration sys." I'll check it out. And washing the dash is a good idea too.
Thanks, Becky

pattim3 · April 2001

Thanks for the good information. I'll pass it on to a friend higher up in the sales department at your Distributor.

Thanks!

Patti

pattim3 · April 2001

Every survey is scored with a report going to the Regional/Distributor VP's. A copy comes to us and Executive's at SOA. The field personel talk to the dealerships about the survey results.

We are in the process of re-looking at various rewards for good survey results. We want to be careful to avoid situations where results can be "bought" with free oil changes for good responses, etc. The dealers get a copy of the survey results and the burden is on them to contact their customers to resolve problems.

Our goal is to help dealers improve their customer experiences to improve their business. We offer specific training in areas where there is consistant commentary indicating that attention is warranted.

The dealers are very sensitive to the commentary/scores because of the level of attention it gets at SOA.

Hope this helps!

pattim3 · April 2001

keep me informed. In almost 19 years at Subaru, I haven't heard of someone being allergic to one of our cars.

I have one child with rather severe allergies, but she hasn't had a problem with my cars at all.

Let me know what you hear? I'm at 1-800-SUBARU3.

I hope you feel better soon!

Patti

nygreg · April 2001

I pick up my new OB tonight. They are telling me it has about 10 miles on it. My daughter who has allergies will be going with me. I'll let you know if either one of us has any reactions.

Patti: Thank you. I'll give you first impression of the dealer and car tomorrow. I had everyone in the family sit in our Camry last night and say goodbye - they are convinced I lost my mind. Big shoes to fill, but, I'm confident the OB is up to it.

-Greg

mtnshopper · April 2001

Thanks. The symptoms are lessening due to the Prednisone and I didn't drive the car at all on Sunday. Saw the doctor this am. She ruled out the peanuts because I've never been allergic to them before and a peanut reaction would have been more instantaneous. She said it is odd, but sure looks like it is related to the car since there were no other changes in my life (food, cosmetics, etc) within the 48 hours after purchasing the car. It could be the out gassing or it could be the cleaning solvent used on the interior before I drove off the lot. Hard to pinpoint. I will drive with the windows open and air out the car for awhile. Whatever it is, I'm sensitized to it now and will likely have a stronger reaction if exposed again. So she told me to contact the dealer and find out the ingredients in the cleaning solvent so I can be sure to avoid any household or car cleaning products that may contain the same ingredients.

Becky

paisan · April 2001

Could it be the spring weather that caused the allergies to act up? Just a guess.

-mike

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