Midsize Sedans 2.0

brian125 · May 2018

thebean said:
We just got back from a Texas to Great Lakes road trip in the Accord, that covered 3,300 miles. I got 36.8 mpg for the entire trip, which was far from all highway miles. My high mpg tank was 39.3 mpg in Minnesota. With the Accord now 3.5 years old, I just turned 27K on the odometer. It did everything we needed on the trip, even though it is an "outdated" sedan. For the 2-3 times a year I need a utility vehicle, renting one makes ultimate sense. I am pretty sure I'll be keeping the Accord a long tine.

That's a nice run you did in your Accord . You had some great gas mileage returns . How much did it cost you in gas expense round trip on your 3300 miles excursion?

thebean · May 2018

@brian125, the trip cost $234 for gas. The most I paid was $2.95/gal in Wisconsin. Most of the rest was in the $2.75-2.85 range,

benjaminh · May 2018

explorerx4 said:
The Accord has been classified as large for several years now....

Well, the EPA defines a "large car" as having a combined 120 cubic feet of passenger and cargo space. The 2017 Accord had 119 without the sunroof—and so missed it by just a little. The 2018 Accord has 122 without the sunroof, and so for the first time has made it past EPA's "large car" line.

brian125 · June 2018

benjaminh said:

explorerx4 said:
The Accord has been classified as large for several years now....
Well, the EPA defines a "large car" as having a combined 120 cubic feet of passenger and cargo space. The 2017 Accord had 119 without the sunroof—and so missed it by just a little. The 2018 Accord has 122 without the sunroof, and so for the first time has made it past EPA's "large car" line.

Your old 1988 Olds 98 was a sweet ride . The velour red seats gave me a flashback. My brother had one with blue seats he bought it new back in the day. I remember that Olds it did ride nice on the hwy. The car had a annoying squeak in the dash board that drove my brother nuts. He eventually took off the whole front dash to fix it . Don't laugh my brother sold it to his pastor of his church for practically a blessing after 10 years and the Olds lasted many years for him. RIP OLDS 98

benjaminh · June 2018

Camry still first in midsize/full-size sales for May....

Camry: 29,965
Accord: 28,212

stickguy · June 2018

I was at the auto mall today and wandered the Toyota lot. Many camrys. Some were not too bad looking. I suppose worth a closer look if I decided to move back into a mid size sedan at some point. Not particularly cheap though if you want some options. Easy to get an SE above 30K

benjaminh · June 2018

stickguy said:
I was at the auto mall today and wandered the Toyota lot. Many camrys. Some were not too bad looking. I suppose worth a closer look if I decided to move back into a mid size sedan at some point. Not particularly cheap though if you want some options. Easy to get an SE above 30K

The interior of the LE Camry that I sat in seemed sub-par. Plus the Camry has no AndroidAuto/CarPlay. No thanks right there on the Camry for me, even though I was kinda interested to consider a famous car built right in my home state. I think the Camry maybe looks better from some angles than the Accord, but in most ways I think the Accord is a little better as a car, inside and out—as well it should be, since the Accord costs a bit more than the Camry.

berri · June 2018

If you're tall you will probably have to default to the Accord given the shrinking of the driver's seat area dimensions on the new Camry. Personally, not a fan of having to recline the seat back to keep my head from touching the ceiling.

brian125 · June 2018

Unfortunately Both Camry and Accord are not big guy friendly. They seem to be shrinking like sneaker and shoe sizes.

andres3 · June 2018

brian125 said:
Unfortunately Both Camry and Accord are not big guy friendly. They seem to be shrinking like sneaker and shoe sizes.

I agree, the Accord did not like my 6'3" tall frame. And they call the TT a "chick" car.

brian125 · June 2018

Agree too. I bought a 2013 exl V-6 Accord , had it 10 months, the 4 hr drives up to Boston to see my daughter were killing my legs and hips. Gave Accord to my daughter, bought a Genesis which has plenty of room .

berri · June 2018

Sorry to hear that. I haven't been in the new Accord and it used to have a reputation for being roomy up front. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though as the Highlander has noticeably better driving room dimensions than the new Pilot.

brian125 · June 2018

andres3 said:

brian125 said:
Unfortunately Both Camry and Accord are not big guy friendly. They seem to be shrinking like sneaker and shoe sizes.
I agree, the Accord did not like my 6'3" tall frame. And they call the TT a "chick" car.

The only difference with the chick car ....is your heads sticking out the roof

brian125 · June 2018

you are sitting in the back seat thou for room??

brian125 · June 2018

Andres3

My sons friend has a TT they handle well, I was quiet surprise also the room in them. Has yours been reliable with no issue's ?

stickguy · June 2018

I have not driven a new accord or camry. Just sat in them in a showroom. So no real impression of room.

I will say though, I have driven the RDX a lot lately, and the higher seating position is quite comfy. I drove that solo straight through from NC to NJ a couple weeks ago (9 hours) and it is amazingly comfortable for a long haul. Back, legs, all felt fine at the end of the trip.

benjaminh · June 2018

Midsize/fullsize sales for last month....

Camry 29,965

Accord 28,212

Altima 23,030

Fusion 15,253

Optima 10,367

Sonata 9,616

Passat 4,757

6 4,437

Legacy 3,461

benjaminh · June 2018

Compact/midsize sales....

Civic 34,349

Corolla 29,578

Sentra 18,103

Focus 16,144

Elantra 14,044

Forte 11,261

Impreza 7,843

Jetta 6,821

3 5,983

explorerx4 · June 2018

Just back from my Ohio trip. Fusion did great. It drives very well and averaged 34 mpg for the trip.
Had to run the a/c just about the whole time. Kept the cruise on 72/73 as much as possible.
Best tank was 533 miles. 34 left until empty, and there is a little more left on top of that.
Driver's seat is definitely more comfortable than passenger seat due to adjustable lumbar and it has more adjustments than 4 way power.

andres3 · June 2018

brian125 said:
Andres3

My sons friend has a TT they handle well, I was quiet surprise also the room in them. Has yours been reliable with no issue's ?

They are roomy for tall people. No moon-roofs on the TTS's so you get a nice high roof line as compared to the seat bottom (which of course, sits low). Backseat? What back seat? Oh yeah, my front seat travel allows me to move my seat all the way back to the rear seat bottoms, so no one is sitting there. Still, it allows for people taller than me to be comfortable in the driver's seat, which is the seat you want to be in.

Cargo room is pretty good, being a hatch and the rear seats folding down too, if needed.

Mine has been reliable, but it has had an issue. A major issue, but only one. A while back I noticed a very VERY slow leaking fluid (were talking a couple drops per day maybe) from the underside and rear half of the car. After some tinkering and toiling with the Haldex, they finally decided to replace the whole rear differential as it is a "sealed" system. That part took a month from Germany to arrive. The work was completed in a day, but they needed the part.

I told them that a month is too long for a new car to be sitting waiting for a part, and they agreed. Offered me a month's payment or free maintenance for the 15, 25, 35, and 45K intervals. I took the free maintenance (the math checked out, but just barely as I use a good Indy shop with fair prices).

Only reason the maintenance was worth it is the 25K service, which includes a DSG transmission oil service. Speaking of which, I'm at 24,500 or so, so that'll be coming up in the next week or two.

backy · June 2018

benjaminh said:
Midsize/fullsize sales for last month....

Camry 29,965

Accord 28,212

Altima 23,030

Fusion 15,253

Optima 10,367

Sonata 9,616

Passat 4,757

6 4,437

Legacy 3,461

Interesting that Optima has passed up the Sonata. Sonata always seemed to sell more units than the Kia in the past. I like both cars, favoring the exterior of the Sonata but the interior of the Optima. I'd take either one over the Camcord if for nothing else than looks. But I'd take a Mazda6 6MT in Soul Red over the Sonatima.

And for the compacts, interesting that Elantra+Forte comes in 3rd behind only the Civic and Corolla. I can't stand the looks of the Civic, although it seems to be a very nice car otherwise, and I'd take an Elantra or Forte any day over the Corolla. Oh wait... I did take a Forte (Forte5) over the Corolla!

explorerx4 · June 2018

Pretty sure Hyundai cut their fleet(rental) sales. A lot of rebalancing going on.

explorerx4 · June 2018

I've been seeing a lot of Altima's around. They have always been popular in this area.
Although it's being replaced, the 2018 looks pretty good. They fixed those bulgy front fenders.

andres3 · June 2018

andres3 said:

brian125 said:
Andres3

My sons friend has a TT they handle well, I was quiet surprise also the room in them. Has yours been reliable with no issue's ?
They are roomy for tall people. No moon-roofs on the TTS's so you get a nice high roof line as compared to the seat bottom (which of course, sits low). Backseat? What back seat? Oh yeah, my front seat travel allows me to move my seat all the way back to the rear seat bottoms, so no one is sitting there. Still, it allows for people taller than me to be comfortable in the driver's seat, which is the seat you want to be in.

Cargo room is pretty good, being a hatch and the rear seats folding down too, if needed.

Mine has been reliable, but it has had an issue. A major issue, but only one. A while back I noticed a very VERY slow leaking fluid (were talking a couple drops per day maybe) from the underside and rear half of the car. After some tinkering and toiling with the Haldex, they finally decided to replace the whole rear differential as it is a "sealed" system. That part took a month from Germany to arrive. The work was completed in a day, but they needed the part.

I told them that a month is too long for a new car to be sitting waiting for a part, and they agreed. Offered me a month's payment or free maintenance for the 15, 25, 35, and 45K intervals. I took the free maintenance (the math checked out, but just barely as I use a good Indy shop with fair prices).

Only reason the maintenance was worth it is the 25K service, which includes a DSG transmission oil service. Speaking of which, I'm at 24,500 or so, so that'll be coming up in the next week or two.

I lied, the 25K service is basically an oil change. The 35K service is the one where I'll be getting my monies worth from the maintenance plan. That makes sense, I knew the DSG oil lasted at least 30K.

benjaminh · July 2018

I thought that with all the updates over the years that the Passat was still fairly competitive. But here's what Motor Trend says in its new review....

"Our R-Line trim tester hit 60 mph in 8.4 seconds....For a little perspective, the Accord, equipped with its base 1.5-liter turbo-four engine, hit 60 mph in 7.6 seconds.

On the highway, plenty of outside noise seeps into the cabin, and handling at higher speeds only seems to get sloppier. The Passat handled fine during normal highway driving, but I almost never took a long, sweeping highway curve fast—it was a little scary (even in the GT). The more affordable, subcompact Honda Fit Sport hatchback and full-size Toyota Avalon Touring sedan I reviewed earlier this year both provided more confidence during high-speed maneuvers.

The dated VW platform also demonstrates its age gap during stop-and-go driving. And when the engine hits a certain low rpm, it emits a vibration throughout the entire car along with an annoying droning sound....

The Passat's braking feel should be better and could be improved by making it more linear. Initial bite is weak, but once you get about halfway through the pedal, it quickly becomes strong. This can cause a lot of unintentional and unsettling quick stops during daily driving....

For all of the Passat's mediocrities, there are some laudable features. The interior is spacious and comfortable...."

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/volkswagen/passat/2018/2018-volkswagen-passat-first-test-review/

tjc78 · July 2018

My boss has a fairly new Passat. Fully loaded V6. He absolutely is ready to dump it. AC cuts out on highway (dealer can’t fix), and many electronic glitches. I’ve witnessed the backup cam taking 20 seconds to display. It also consumes oil like crazy, about quart every 750-1000 Miles he claims. Dealer can’t fix that either.

stickguy · July 2018

Both our jettas had the AC on highway issue

brian125 · July 2018

tjc78 said:
My boss has a fairly new Passat. Fully loaded V6. He absolutely is ready to dump it. AC cuts out on highway (dealer can’t fix), and many electronic glitches. I’ve witnessed the backup cam taking 20 seconds to display. It also consumes oil like crazy, about quart every 750-1000 Miles he claims. Dealer can’t fix that either.

I'm going to echo what I heard . A golf buddy leased a 18 VW Atlas 50k . He had several problems with command center electronics'.

Michaell · July 2018

brian125 said:

tjc78 said:
My boss has a fairly new Passat. Fully loaded V6. He absolutely is ready to dump it. AC cuts out on highway (dealer can’t fix), and many electronic glitches. I’ve witnessed the backup cam taking 20 seconds to display. It also consumes oil like crazy, about quart every 750-1000 Miles he claims. Dealer can’t fix that either.

I'm going to echo what I heard . A golf buddy leased a 18 VW Atlas 50k . He had several problems with command center electronics'.

Every now and again, I'll have to "reboot" the infotainment system in my 2016 Jetta to get CarPlay to work. Annoying, but nothing that is causing me to dump the car, or the brand.

brian125 · July 2018

Family friend has leased 4 Jetta's over the years without problems. I actually like VW Atlas. It feels like its made well from riding in one.

andres3 · July 2018

tjc78 said:
My boss has a fairly new Passat. Fully loaded V6. He absolutely is ready to dump it. AC cuts out on highway (dealer can’t fix), and many electronic glitches. I’ve witnessed the backup cam taking 20 seconds to display. It also consumes oil like crazy, about quart every 750-1000 Miles he claims. Dealer can’t fix that either.

Sounds like a lemon. A bright yellow one.

sda · July 2018

stickguy said:
Both our jettas had the AC on highway issue

What is the issue with the ac? Does it turn off under load or after a period of time?
Does it come back on soon after?

explorerx4 · July 2018

My Fusion got just under 30 mpg when I filled it up.
Took me 7 weeks to drive it 444 miles.

tjc78 · July 2018

stickguy said:
Both our jettas had the AC on highway issue

What did they do to fix it? They said all the pressures were normal and his is blowing 40 degrees at idle. Gets warm at highway speeds.... makes no sense usually around town or idling in traffic is the hardest for AC with less air moving across the condenser.

stickguy · July 2018

I think a software fix. was fine around town and at lower speeds, but over IIRC 75ish, it got very weak. Reminded me of the old days when a car was pulling a hill and the AC cut out while the engine was working hard. Both were fixed, some sort of TSB I think. though the Sport was doing it again when we gave it back!

explorerx4 · August 2018

Brutal review of the Malibu, kind over the top mean.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/m/b1ef5cb5-439c-3574-beff-21214d116463/2019-chevrolet-malibu-rs.html

stickguy · August 2018

rough, but not sure would consider it over the top. More like tough love.

berri · August 2018

Detroit only has so much money and trucks and crossovers is where the profit is made. Kind of expected that investment in sedans keeps getting reduced.

ab348 · August 2018

No bias in that Malibu review. Yeah, riiiiight.

Meanwhile, the usually anti-GM The Truth About Cars was at the same event, drove the same car, and quite liked it:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/08/2019-chevrolet-malibu-rs-first-drive-curiously-viable-transportation/

suydam · August 2018

Actually seems like a very nice vehicle. Does it lease well?

nyccarguy · August 2018

Construction has begun on the new deck. Here’s the before picture:

explorerx4 · August 2018

#NYC,
You're teasing us.

nyccarguy · August 2018

explorerx4 said:

#NYC, You're teasing us.

Shoot. I didn’t mean to post in mid sized sedans.

imidazol97 · August 2018

ab348 said:
No bias in that Malibu review. Yeah, riiiiight.

Meanwhile, the usually anti-GM The Truth About Cars was at the same event, drove the same car, and quite liked it:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/08/2019-chevrolet-malibu-rs-first-drive-curiously-viable-transportation/

Words I never thought I'd see in a GM review on TTAC:
" I’ve now added the Malibu to the top of that list.
"This is, by far, the best CVT I’ve ever driven. Most transmissions of this nature make the driver feel as if there is something wrong with the car — the engine hangs at a higher RPM level, causing noise, or the needle might move up and down the tachometer in steady-state driving on the freeway. Disconcerting noises plague most CVTs. Not this one. Had I not read the literature on this car or attended a morning briefing before hopping behind the wheel, I don’t know if I’d have noticed the lack of traditional gears.
"And yet, I can’t stop thinking about how surprisingly well this Chevy drives.
" The continuously variable transmissions’ ratios feel perfectly matched to the power available, and the driving experience is marvelous."

ab348 · August 2018

You could scarcely find two more diametrically opposed reviews. I’m sure the Yahoo one will make some GM execs question why they pay to fly, wine and dine these writers to such events. Or at least ones from Yahoo!

andres3 · August 2018

For me a CVT is a big turn-off. Saying it's a "great" CVT is sort of like saying something similar to "insert your least favorite food here" was well prepared and of high-quality.

roadburner · August 2018

I wouldn't rule a CVT out altogether, but a major reason I won't consider a CVT at present is because no car maker has put a CVT in a car that I would seriously consider owning.

stickguy · August 2018

I’ve driven some CVTs that seem fine, considering it’s still an AT. the accord and legacies did a good job. Been a while since I drove a Nissan though.

suydam · August 2018

Could not tell the difference in the ‘13 Accord’s CVT, it was flawless. Really improved FE too. The Nissan Altima, however, had a noisy drone to it. So it just depends.

fushigi · August 2018

My QX60's CVT is a little rubber-bandish but in daily driving I rarely notice it enough to give pause. Power delivery is smooth, which is what you actually want most of the time, and average driving hovers in the 1200-2200 RPM range when cruising around town and using modest/average acceleration.

If I'm after a little more serious performance I rotate the knob to Sport and it's a totally different beast; running RPMs to maximize torque before even considering changing ratios.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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