Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

stickguy said:
I want one of those little model engines to keep on my desk to play with on conference calls.

For him, this was a pretty good video. Can’t really argue with his points.

Yes but he just made up a new word "Normalicy".

My two cents is that a car burning a teensy bit of oil between changes is actually a good thing---upper cylinder lube and all that.

stickguy · November 2018

being at the 3/4 mark after 5,000 miles maybe. But blowing through a quart in 1-2K miles, that is wrong.

roadburner · November 2018

stickguy said:
being at the 3/4 mark after 5,000 miles maybe. But blowing through a quart in 1-2K miles, that is wrong.

It depends on the car; my Club Sport has averaged 2,500 miles/qt since new and it just passed 146,000 miles. It's never worried me in the slightest.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2018

An engine could burn oil for 300K miles, as long as you keep an eye on it. I suppose if it got really excessive it might affect the catalytic, but it would have to be a real mosquito fogger to do that.

I can tolerate 1 quart between changes, not a concern for me either.

henryn · November 2018

I've owned a couple of cars that would be down 1 quart after 2 or 3 thousand miles. I always just changed the oil when it got down 1 quart. That was before everyone started going to the extended oil change intervals.

sda · November 2018

My '71 Vega GT burned a quart every 150 miles. The joke was check the gas and fill up with oil. It always started and never left me stranded. Had to clean the #3 plug every 800 miles or so. That was in '78 and it had around 50k. The '06 Passat 2.0t that I bought in '07 burned a quart (synthetic, mind you) every 800 miles. VW said that was normal. Nonsense, and my last VW.

stickguy · November 2018

I like that Vega. All it needed was a mild small block Chevy dropped in, with appropriate chassis beefing up, and good to go!

jpp75 · November 2018

My uncle had a 2002 DeVille that burned at least a quart of oil every 1,000 miles. Cadillac also told him that was normal. It was his first and last Cadillac.

flightnurse · November 2018

I'm not too sure why anyone would lease a 320i for $400+/M and put down (out of pocket) $2750.

Our X2 MSRP was $49K, sale price was 47K (not much of a discount) there was 3K BMW credits ($1500 Loyalty and 1500 lease cash) with $525 out of pocket payments are with tax $525/m ($484+ $41)

Those leader leases are that leader, and no one with their right mind would do for one of them. My 330 lease was zero out of pocket and payments of $450/m MSRP 47K but it was a service loaner.

I just don't hope we aren't going to beat a dead horse on lease prices. The old day of cheap BMW leases are gone, MF is higher and the residual isnt as high as it once was.

flightnurse · November 2018

benjaminh said:

I'm not saying these are good deals. Just posting what the official offers are right now for entry-level luxury cars for comparison. I agree that 5k down makes this a strange lease. And I'm guessing that almost everyone can do better than these official offers, but they do provide a starting point for comparison for ELL cars right now. Some or maybe all of these offers are new starting Nov. 1.

Just because the manufacture posts that doesn't mean that is a cement deal, I just think you want to post BS stuff. I mean, Toyota has $200/m lease dealers on Camry's but you need 3K down for that deal, and that is a horrible deal.

benjaminh · November 2018

Automobile magazine likes the Lincoln Continental....

"And, of course, everything is trimmed in chrome, from the instrument binnacle to the knurled buttons on the steering wheel. Why? Because America, pinhead. What are you, a friggin’ socialist?

But the Conti’s ace in the hole is that it is quick. Like, seriously quick—at least when equipped with the top-of-the-line engine, a twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 that produces an even 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque. No, “produces” is the wrong word—it belts out its power the way Tom Jones sings “What’s New Pussycat.” Our colleagues down the hall at Motor Trend timed a similar all-wheel-drive Continental to 60 mph in 5.4 seconds—not bad considering the aging transmission has only six speeds. And while such fleetness-of-foot isn’t exactly novel in a luxury car, it’s the icing on the cake in the Continental: Just when you get totally absorbed in its old-school absurdity, you punch the accelerator and disappear...."

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2018-lincoln-continental-reserve-awd-quick-take/

roadburner · November 2018

I might give one a look in 24 years- when I turn 85.

qbrozen · November 2018

I think the conti looks great, but WAY too pricey

circlem · November 2018

I might give one a look in 24 years- when I turn 85.

This is more your speed at the moment:

https://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw/3-series/la-preview-2020-bmw-m340i/

roadburner · November 2018

I hope that it lives up to Munich's promises; I'm still leaning towards an M2 Competition if I were to replace my M235i.

henryn · November 2018

benjaminh said:
Automobile magazine likes the Lincoln Continental....

"And, of course, everything is trimmed in chrome, from the instrument binnacle to the knurled buttons on the steering wheel. Why? Because America, pinhead. What are you, a friggin’ socialist?

But the Conti’s ace in the hole is that it is quick. Like, seriously quick—at least when equipped with the top-of-the-line engine, a twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 that produces an even 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque. No, “produces” is the wrong word—it belts out its power the way Tom Jones sings “What’s New Pussycat.” Our colleagues down the hall at Motor Trend timed a similar all-wheel-drive Continental to 60 mph in 5.4 seconds—not bad considering the aging transmission has only six speeds. And while such fleetness-of-foot isn’t exactly novel in a luxury car, it’s the icing on the cake in the Continental: Just when you get totally absorbed in its old-school absurdity, you punch the accelerator and disappear...."

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2018-lincoln-continental-reserve-awd-quick-take/

I could probably manage to get by with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque. It would be a struggle, but sometimes you have to compromise, and settle for less than what you really want...

roadburner · November 2018

A 5.4 seconds 0-60 time is merely average these days; my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 posted an identical time. And I know it is comparing apples and oranges, but if I'm buying something that big and heavy it's going to be an M5 or a Charger Hellcat.

qbrozen · November 2018

roadburner said:

A 5.4 seconds 0-60 time is merely average these days; my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 posted an identical time. And I know it is comparing apples and oranges, but if I'm buying something that big and heavy it's going to be an M5 or a Charger Hellcat.

I'd be happy with a Scat Pack and $30k change.

flightnurse · November 2018

So I hope everyone had a wonderful thanksgiving.

Have you ever wondered why things happen when they do? How many time have you gone to the store, got what you needed, return to your car and drove home! Well for me, thousands of time, but this time, some wacko took a baseball bat to my car, of course, I didn't have my cell phone with me, but lucky the store had camera's that caught it all, and there were police arresting someone for shoplifting. The derange man also got 2 other cars, I'm sure my car will be totaled. Both A Pillars, roof, both fender, hood, windshield, lights (LED), drivers and rear passenger doors, and all glass. Lucky for the video, and yes, the police tazzed the guy and handcuffed him. I'm driving the X2, but that doesn't belong to us any longer, my niece came into town for the holidays and LOVED the X2 and we did a lease swap on it, but she comes back on Friday to drive the it home.

I guess things happen for a reason, I have been fighting with BMW to fix me car, when the car sits over night and when you go start it, it's lurches/jumps like its not in neutral all the way. BMW says my car is fine and is normal, in BMW speak, no codes are being thrown so we aren't worrying about it. I'm sure if I told them I lost confidence in the car things would be different, so this 330 is my last NEW BMW. So what to get, it will be used, looked at two MB E63's both one owner cars have to say, they are FAST, and the V8 rumble is addicting. So the fun starts.

So criteria for the new car, used, max price $25K.

More news

Rick traded in his 328GT for a 2018 Honda CR-V EX-L, have no idea why he went with the Honda, the new Acura RDX is increditable we are now BMWless until my niece picks up the X2.

stickguy · November 2018

quite a change there, but whatever makes you happy. Probably won't be around long anyway.

bummer about your car, but in this case, for the best. I have had a few over the years where if they spontaneously burst into flames (while not parked in my garage of course) it would have not broken my heart.

Tough budget for something like an E63 though. Sure you want something that old or high miles?

flightnurse · November 2018

stickguy said:
quite a change there, but whatever makes you happy. Probably won't be around long anyway.

bummer about your car, but in this case, for the best. I have had a few over the years where if they spontaneously burst into flames (while not parked in my garage of course) it would have not broken my heart.

Tough budget for something like an E63 though. Sure you want something that old or high miles?

I've been looking into the E55/63 cars as well as the E39 E60 M5's. Most cars have had the major issues taken care of and each car listed has a few, the engine and transmission of the MB have been pretty much bullet proof prices are all over the place on them. I'm aware of the engine issues of the E60 M5, to fix the issue before the bearings go bad is about 3K, and the Vanoas seals would need to be replaced, that is the two issues with the V10. The E60 M5's with the fixes would run me about 25K (that includes the car.) I have at least a month before I need to purchase a car.

circlew · November 2018

I saw this M6 around here for reference.

https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2008-bmw-m6-40-service/6749199781.html

flightnurse · November 2018

circlew said:
I saw this M6 around here for reference.

https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2008-bmw-m6-40-service/6749199781.html

it's amazing the prices for these cars.

circlew · November 2018

I think the anticipated repairs/maintenance would eclipse the price of the car in 3 - 5 years.

flightnurse · November 2018

circlew said:
I think the anticipated repairs/maintenance would eclipse the price of the car in 3 - 5 years.

There is no doubt this is the problem, but having spoken to a couple of owners of these cars and pricing out fixes those issues can be taken care, the bearing issue is a 3K job, the vanoas seals another $2500, yes, the SMG pump is a problem, but it's not the same as if the bearings going out.

The price of the car, plus those two items would still come in under my 25K budget. And I'll have a car that will run with most cars.

henryn · November 2018

I would imagine that you would really enjoy driving and being seen in that car. But I'm not so sure that actually owning it would be the same kind of pleasure. 10 years old, immensely complicated German machinery, ...

Hard to say, but sounds like a really big gamble to me. On the other hand, it is beautiful, and very unusual, and probably a LOT of fun to drive ...

roadburner · November 2018

flightnurse said:

circlew said:
I think the anticipated repairs/maintenance would eclipse the price of the car in 3 - 5 years.
There is no doubt this is the problem, but having spoken to a couple of owners of these cars and pricing out fixes those issues can be taken care, the bearing issue is a 3K job, the vanoas seals another $2500, yes, the SMG pump is a problem, but it's not the same as if the bearings going out.

The price of the car, plus those two items would still come in under my 25K budget. And I'll have a car that will run with most cars.

A recent issue of the British magazine BMW CAR had a story on a company that is rebuilding SMG pumps. The rebuilt units offer a significant savings.

You've done you homework, so if you find an M5 or M6 that floats your boat I'd say go for it. I bought a four year old M6 back in 1992 and my only regret is that I sold it.

I feel sorry for the risk-averse drones who sentence themselves to driving anodyne appliances.

flightnurse · November 2018

henryn said:
I would imagine that you would really enjoy driving and being seen in that car. But I'm not so sure that actually owning it would be the same kind of pleasure. 10 years old, immensely complicated German machinery, ...

Hard to say, but sounds like a really big gamble to me. On the other hand, it is beautiful, and very unusual, and probably a LOT of fun to drive ...

I think when you go and purchase a used M car or AMG car you need to do your homework, that I have done. Other then the items I have mentioned there are no real issue with the car, yes, keeping up on maintenance is important, but commute has been cut to 12 miles RT. I don't find myself needlessly driving around like I did when I was younger, so miles aren't going to rack up on me. But to own a sports sedan with a V10 is hard to pass up.

flightnurse · November 2018

roadburner said:

A recent issue of the British magazine BMW CAR had a story on a company that is rebuilding SMG pumps. The rebuilt units offer a significant savings.

You've done you homework, so if you find an M5 or M6 that floats your boat I'd say go for it. I bought a four year old M6 back in 1992 and my only regret is that I sold it.

I feel sorry for the risk-averse drones who sentence themselves to driving anodyne appliances.

I heard about that company also, I have to give a shout out to the local BMW group they have been a wealth of info on the V10, also there is a service manager for one of the larger indie BMW shops has given me ideas and prices. BTW you still working at the BMW dealer?

roadburner · November 2018

No; but it was an amicable parting- in fact just last week the same dealer gave me a screaming deal on a CPO E84 X1 M Sport.
I can still get info if you need it.

flightnurse · December 2018

roadburner said:
No; but it was an amicable parting- in fact just last week the same dealer gave me a screaming deal on a CPO E84 X1 M Sport.
I can still get info if you need it.

which E84? turbo 6?

roadburner · December 2018

N20; it's my wife's new DD.

benjaminh · December 2018

ELL sales for Nov....

C-Class 5,777 -3.7%
ES 4,222 +8%
3series 3,218 -47.9%
Q50 2,819 -34.3%
TLX 2,457 -4.2%
IS 1,830 -25.5%
A4 1,635 -45%
MKZ 1,440 -25.7%
Giulia 912 +21%
S60 688 -14.9%

sda · December 2018

With the sedan market in a downfall, the TLX held up pretty well. I don’t see the appeal of the ES. It gets expensive fast when equipped nicely and that front end styling!

stickguy · December 2018

I assume the S60 will take a big uptick in a couple months when the new design hits the lots. There are next to no new 2018s left now.

stickguy · December 2018

and holy moley, they 3 series has really hit the skids. that used to sell a ton more.

flightnurse · December 2018

stickguy said:
I assume the S60 will take a big uptick in a couple months when the new design hits the lots. There are next to no new 2018s left now.

They are on the lots now.

flightnurse · December 2018

stickguy said:
and holy moley, they 3 series has really hit the skids. that used to sell a ton more.

The new G20 is coming and people are waiting for them,

stickguy · December 2018

I’d rather take a blow out lease on a 2018. But I’m cheap!

flightnurse · December 2018

stickguy said:
I’d rather take a blow out lease on a 2018. But I’m cheap!

Most people would, but the G20 has taken the 3 series to a new level, the M340i will be nipping at the read end of the M3, but the downside is the G20 will not get a manuel.
But right now BMW is offering 3K lease money but the MF is high. My 330i was 47K which is about average for what is on the lots right now, Getting roughly 10% off MSRP you will be looking at mid to high $400/m before tax

flightnurse · December 2018

This guy has some great videos, here is another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoviOeSzmME

flightnurse · December 2018

So after some "talks" with my insurance company they have decided to total my 330i, total repair cost is $17K at first they weren't going to total but gave me an early XMAS present. I think I have narrow my choice to a MB E63. Have driven 2 of them, gob's of power/torque the seats are uber comfortable too, the V8 rumble is addictive!

brian125 · December 2018

benjaminh said:
ELL sales for Nov....

C-Class 5,777 -3.7%
ES 4,222 +8%
3series 3,218 -47.9%
Q50 2,819 -34.3%
TLX 2,457 -4.2%
IS 1,830 -25.5%
A4 1,635 -45%
MKZ 1,440 -25.7%
Giulia 912 +21%
S60 688 -14.9%

There is excellent lease cash on 2018 Q50's. I see a ton of them on the roads in the NYC area. 5k to over 7k in lease cash . A nice lease buy.

henryn · December 2018

brian125 said:

There is excellent lease cash on 2018 Q50's. I see a ton of them on the roads in the NYC area. 5k to over 7k in lease cash . A nice lease buy.

I’m definitely not seeing that. I just checked the web page for the closest Infiniti dealer. They have a lease special up for a 2019 Infiniti Q50 3.0t Luxe -- $299 a month for 39 months (no mention of miles), with $5,099 due at signing. $5,099 divided by 39, that’s another $131 a month, so for a sign-and-drive you’re looking at $430 per month against a retail price of $39,295. And that does not include tax, title, and license.

flightnurse · December 2018

henryn said:

I’m definitely not seeing that. I just checked the web page for the closest Infiniti dealer. They have a lease special up for a 2019 Infiniti Q50 3.0t Luxe -- $299 a month for 39 months (no mention of miles), with $5,099 due at signing. $5,099 divided by 39, that’s another $131 a month, so for a sign-and-drive you’re looking at $430 per month against a retail price of $39,295. And that does not include tax, title, and license.

Why are you taking what the manufacture post as the final deal? BMW does this all the time and you can ALWAYS get a better deal at the dealership than what the web page shows.

henryn · December 2018

flightnurse said:

Why are you taking what the manufacture post as the final deal? BMW does this all the time and you can ALWAYS get a better deal at the dealership than what the web page shows.

That wasn't the manufacturer (Infiniti), that was the closest Infiniti dealer, on their web site. They had some decent deals on buying a new car or SUV, but terrible deals on leasing. Possibly because no one (or almost no one?) leases a car in Texas?

I work with a lot of people who make good money (in some cases, great money), and some of them drive very nice cars. Probably half of them drive older or less expensive cars, and spend all of their money on other things, houses, college tuition, you know the drill.

But among the "car" group, I only know of one who is leasing, a very nice Lexus SUV. And at the time she got that SUV, she was dating someone who worked at the dealership.

sweendogy · January 2019

ELLPS - 2013 s4 (8.5) 49k miles. All good with rig (Knock on wood). 19 3 series looks legit but bang for buck the G70 looks like it might be the king here. Price and warrantee real nice - performs like a nice gt car and the looks are spectacular. Long live the sedan.

ksoman · February 2019

I hate the 4 bangers with breathers on top. At these insane prices for tiny tin pots, I want 6s. I miss my 2004 bmw flat 6... but not the car. Thank god I got out of that mistake.

kyfdx · February 2019

ksoman said:
I hate the 4 bangers with breathers on top. At these insane prices for tiny tin pots, I want 6s. I miss my 2004 bmw flat 6... but not the car. Thank god I got out of that mistake.

Straight six, not flat six (Flat six would be a Porsche)

qbrozen · February 2019

ksoman said:
I hate the 4 bangers with breathers on top. At these insane prices for tiny tin pots, I want 6s. I miss my 2004 bmw flat 6... but not the car. Thank god I got out of that mistake.

OH, totally. Give me a V6 Dodge Journey over a lowly boosted 4-cyl GLA45 any day!

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