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U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think the SL is suffering just like all convertibles. The trend seems to be ever downward for the soft top/
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    Had my '17 Cruze in for service today and was looking on the lot. I was wanting to see if they had any new '18 Cruzes left, as a potential replacement for my wife's PT Cruiser. Ironically, they had no '18's left but had '18 Malibus left--the model they are continuing to build. Go figure.

    TV commercials say that Chevy is the best-selling brand in NE OH, but apparently that's not the case elsewhere.

    In the showroom they had a '19 Corvette, base model, only options 8-speed automatic with paddle shifter, and glass top. Sticker $59,310. Seems like an overall bargain to me. I don't like the higher-zoot ones with black wheels and cladding and spoilers. And try as I might, I just cannot like the looks of the Camaro. The 'Vette was silver, which I wouldn't buy though.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited December 2018
    Speaking of blue hairs, I saw a tarted up Lincoln MKZ with what appeared to be a convertible look vinyl top covering the back windows of the 6 window greenhouse today. The back of that top even had the carriage look hardware. Not an enhancement. Borrowing from old rock 'n roll; I saw your car and it was uugglly B) The owner probably spent thousands to convert it to a 4 window look that only made the thing look like a cheaper model.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    People just have less space and time (and money) for toys. I have no desire for one - I already have a hobby car, and I don't want to deal with convertible hassles (either as a complex retractable or high risk cloth top) as a daily driver.

    Regarding uplanderguy's Cruze browsing, sales are definitely a regional thing. I suspect in west coast urban areas, a significant amount of new domestic brand cars on the road are rentals. I don't know anyone personally who has a new Cruze, Impala, Malibu, etc. Interestingly enough, I know a couple people with Ford Fusions.

    I think the SL is suffering just like all convertibles. The trend seems to be ever downward for the soft top/

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    ...and Ford is dropping the Fusion.

    Funny that Chevy is keeping their car in that size class. I'm stupefied that they are dropping the Cruze but keeping the Sonic. The Cruze was a completely new car for 2016, but the Sonic is still the car that came out in 2012.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited December 2018
    I had posted this on my Facebook page the other day, but industry buffs, at least older folks, may find the attached interesting. It was Youngstown's CBS affiliate interviewing the head of the Lordstown plant and Fisher Body plant there, on Oct. 18, 1966. They were ready to instantly hire 2,500 people then. Imagine.

    Some neat footage of '67 full-size Chevys on the line.

    My Greenville grandparents had a new plum-colored '67 Impala Sport Coupe. Never occurred to me before I saw this video, but I wonder if it was built in Lordstown. Since they lived only 35 or 40 miles away, I bet it was.

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2123364707949975
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited December 2018
    A high-school friend of mine who lives near Columbus, OH now has an '18 Impala his wife leased; their second of the current-generation. He says they will probably buy it at the end of the lease.

    The Impala Premier (formerly LTZ) is my favorite GM product. I still prefer the styling to the newer Buick LaCrosse. Like the Cruze, CR recommends it (for folks who like CR). It's built in both Detroit and Oshawa, Ontario, and both those plants are closing. Supposedly the Impala is hanging on for about a year, longer than the Cruze. Another 'go figure'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    For awhile now, most advertising I see for GM, Ford and FCA is about trucks and crossovers. However it happened, I think Detroit basically ceded cars to the Asians (and Germans in the lux segment) some time ago. We probably shouldn't be surprised at all about this Ford and GM stuff really. I think UAW work rules make it harder to earn a decent return on less expensive stuff combined with excess capacity issues.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited December 2018
    RE.: Lexus--friend of mine's Dad bought an LS300 or 400 (not the V8) coupe in the mid-nineties. I know it's all about quality, but for the price it struck me as a large compact car. I remember reading online that my two-door Cavalier matched it for rear-seat legroom. I wasn't very wowed with it from a luxury or styling standpoint.

    My friend said it was in the 40's when new.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    6 cyl coupe would be an SC300, in some ways a luxury Supra. Those were quite the thing when new, I remember one of the most affluent families in the small town where I lived got one at introduction, and it really stuck out in 1992. Lexus of that era sometimes had leather and soft touch materials that didn't age well, I have seen many with seating and steering wheels that show patina, to put it nicely.

    Regarding the discontinuance of sedans, the GM and Ford better hope and pray current trends, both consumer and fuel price, hold true. Others aren't abandoning sedans, heck, MB is even introducing a new small trunkback car for MY 2019.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Also, you could get the SC300 with a stick!

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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I agree for the younger buyers. But middle age and up, I think they will gravitate to small crossover hybrid type vehicles if oil goes way up. They are used to the seating position. This may be true for younger buyers with families as well.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited December 2018
    How much is gas out your way? For the first time in memory, I paid $1.99 today--and that was for a 'top tier' gasoline (BP). I went to my hometown which is only ten miles east of the Ohio border and gas there was $2.62--PA has a crazy gasoline tax rate.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Ours is down to $1.99 for quality brands and even top tier Shell was $1.99. We had a new station open in our area on a highway across from an old one and close to the Shell. It's going to be cheap.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Seems to me its more of a nomenclature issue than any dramatic re-direction. A CUV is basically a sedan anyway.

    Think of the past---station wagons, sedan deliveries, "salesman's coupes" (a 2-door with two seats and a large cargo area in the rear, woody sedans and wagons, open-roof "Town Cars" ---they all went away.

    Tastes change.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I've thought of it another way - look at cars before around 1950: tall, no extended trunk, much ground clearance - kind of like CUVs and smaller SUVs. Maybe we're just going back.

    I still prefer a conventional car design and have no innate urge to sit up high, but having rented a medium and large SUV for long drives, I didn't find them particularly bad to drive (aside from mpg). Styles change.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They're all starting to look the same to me, and some of them are none too pretty.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Most of them aren't too pretty. Of course, these days, making a nice looking vehicle is far down the list of important factors for groupthink-suffering stylists - faux aggression and the pretense of being rugged and adventurous mean a lot more.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Cladding---the new Halloween custom for sedans.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    In a few years, we'll hit the point where the Aztek was right.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Could be--the nice thing about bad taste is that you don't know you have it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Or in terms of the market, one just doesn't care. Many of these new soft roaders, especially "coupe" variants, are no less homely than an Aztek.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Seriously guys, are there any vehicles of whatever nomenclature that are truly good looking these days? Design seems to have been overtaken by tech (or in the case of Asian -Anime).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I can't think of many,not in the affordable realm anyway. This won't be an era remembered for clean or timeless designs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm sure you've experienced the fact that some people view styling very subjectively and you will always find people who will say: "Oh, I don't know...I think the '58 Buick is quite beautiful".

    And who's to argue? That's what they think.

    Now, me, I think it is an abomination to all good car styling.

    However, I've developed a "thought experiment" to try and eliminate some of the subjectivity.

    My theory is that you cannot call a car truly beautiful until you see it in a junkyard, with the body devoid of many parts (cladding? massive chrome bumpers"), so that you can just see the overall shape of the body shell.

    Some cars look great, even in that sorry state. Others reveal how clunky and "phony" they really are.

    Not too many modern cars would pass my test.

    I think Fin is right, the high end expensive cars do tend to have more distinctive styling. I like some of the Maserati designs and I thought the Tesla S was a handsome car. There are a whole bunch others that, at least, are not "offendsive"
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I always try to look at a vehicle colored white. I think it shows design flaws, so if it still looks good, I believe it will look good 5 or 10 years down the road as well.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    berri said:

    I always try to look at a vehicle colored white. I think it shows design flaws, so if it still looks good, I believe it will look good 5 or 10 years down the road as well.

    X2

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I wonder if any Toyolex vehicles pass the white test - maybe Corolla?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    A white Corolla still looks dumpy to me.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    A face not even a mother could love.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    Until they get rid of that big front maw, I’m not interested.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You may be able that question fin to all Asian makes - probably just a small handful at best.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited December 2018
    fintail said:

    I wonder if any Toyolex vehicles pass the white test - maybe Corolla?

    I saw a white Camry coming at me today. With the black splotches on the front view, I realized what it looks like--a centrifugal force painting where they splat a blob of black paint on a wheel that's rotating and spin it spreading the black paint in streaks out from the core.


    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    The rear is just as bad - it is so busy, and the piece hanging off the taillight bugs me to no end, reminds me of a teardrop tattoo (and you know what those mean):

    image

    This is the modern equivalent of a 58 Oldsmobuick - but instead of being funny overdone optimistic space-age kitsch, it is just styling cliches and faux aggression.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I agree. But at least it looks like you can see out of it, which is not a given in many vehicles today.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    That's definitely the silver lining - the Camry does appear to have a tallish greenhouse, which is rare these days.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I find the Mazda vehicles, especially the 3 and CX5 to be quite attractive, and a welcome relief from the horror that most Hondas and Toyotas have become.

    I find the current Volt nice looking as well. A guy down my block has one.

    Very few US sedans in my neighborhood. Lots more trucks and SUVs of US nameplates.
    Gas here in CA is expensive, it's running around $3.50 for regular. Luckily I don't have much of a commute.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agree the CX-5 is a looker. Handles well for a C-ute.

    Just bought a 2016 for my daughter. She is stationed in Korea at the moment (Army) destined for Fort Hood, TX in April. Road trip to deliver the CX-5.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    tlong said:

    Gas here in CA is expensive, it's running around $3.50 for regular. Luckily I don't have much of a commute.

    Here (suburban Chicago) we had a bit of a price war for a week or so with all of the stations dropping to $1.78-1.85. But it ended yesterday & shot back up to $2.19-2.35. Work is about 8 miles each way & including that I only drive 700-900 miles a month so don't really worry about it.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216
    $1.97 for Top Tier here in North Texas. Filled up this morning.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    fintail said:

    That's definitely the silver lining - the Camry does appear to have a tallish greenhouse, which is rare these days.

    The seating and beltline seem to be much lower than the previous version. One parked next to me in my Cobalt, which I think is fairly low and I was looking down into the Camry. I prefer my Gen 8 Malibu which is higher than the Cobalt for seating.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Gas here in CA is expensive, but I have to say that I'd rather pay more for gas than having toll booths and toll roads all over the place. It's much less intrusive to just pay at the pump. I don't have a toll road within 80 miles of me and all of our interstates are toll-free.
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    Toll roads don't bother me. You just get the EZ-Pass tag and forget about it. It does cost a few dollars, but not really that much.

    The only time I get bothered is when I get a new vehicle. There are places where I just can't go until I take the time to go and get an EZ-Pass tag.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    Very happy to live in a state with no toll roads. And the ones that have them have terrible roads (I’m thinking Penn Turnpike in particular).
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • henrynhenryn Member Posts: 4,289
    The toll roads here are good. And they save you a lot of time. The only people I hear complain about them are the people who don't bother to get the tag.
    2023 Chevrolet Silverado, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I'd rather not deal with tolls as well. I don't like tags and similar on my windshield. Having the toll pass on my recent rental cars sometimes bugged me.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I'll probably never drive one, but maybe you are right, and they are trying to be sporty. My mom has a Camry that's a coupe generations back now, and it sits higher - she doesn't care much for ingress/egress in my E-class as it sits low.


    The seating and beltline seem to be much lower than the previous version. One parked next to me in my Cobalt, which I think is fairly low and I was looking down into the Camry. I prefer my Gen 8 Malibu which is higher than the Cobalt for seating.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    fintail said:

    Not sure if punishing drivers of marginally longer cars will solve anything. Reminds me of the local ideals of ripping out car lanes for seldom-used bike lanes, and cities taking bribes to allow Limebikes to park all over the place after being used for fun and seldom if ever replacing cars.

    Here are the problems in cities:

    Lack of affordable housing close to employment centers

    Lack of comprehensive public transit

    Lack of general infrastructure, which makes housing, transit, and roads that much harder

    (I won't even get into the wage/socio-economic issues underlying in much of this)

    Shorter cars won't make a difference. Tax the living daylights out of offshore capital parkers/money launderers who use local real estate as a casino and residency ticket, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure. Encourage upzoning to allow people to not need to live 20 miles from employment centers to find affordable rent (or if they are lucky, a mortgage). Put first world taxes on those who have benefited most from the past 35 years of moronic tax policy, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure.




    But there's no incentive to buy a Spark or a Mitsubishi, because the bigger cars are not being punished enough.

    Automakers don't want to sell these little cars. They make them as awful as possible.

    Did you see the LA Times story that some of the people that tragically died in the Paradise CA wildfire can thank their local Politicians for implementing Zero Vision (Vision Zero) policies like lane reductions (narrowing) through main street in the heart of town. That section of road became gridlocked during evacuations from the fires, no doubt in part due to the lessening and narrowing of lanes. I wonder if anyone stuck in the gridlock realized the contributory factors besides bad drivers and poor evacuation notice.

    I've long mocked Vision Zero as having zero vision, and this was a good example of unintended consequences of doing idiotic things.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    edited December 2018
    fintail said:

    I'm a MB fanboy, and IMO the true luxury doesn't really come in until the S-class, or maybe a very highly equipped (top few percent of production, MSRP probably >75K+) E. A normal E still does taxi duty in many countries, is usually equipped with a 4 cyl and Tex, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that. The brand was never really only about "luxury", that's something created by this market. It has historically been a build quality/engineering brand with a luxury model range at the top.

    There's a few people at work that have gone with newer MB's lately. One younger lady asked me about oil changes, and I had to call out the MB dealerships oil change pricing the MB tax. The tax for thinking you are rich for buying a MB. That's the US marketing/reputation of MB. Does it come from less than ethical dealerships?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited December 2018
    In my experience, oil changes and routine services are often not much more at a MB dealer than at an indy shop. Major services and repairs are where they can go crazy. If one wants to have their oil changed or A/B service at a dealer, the convenience (nice waiting area, shuttle, maybe a loaner), might be worth the marginal extra cost. If you're going to have an engine rebuilt outside of warranty, you'll probably want to find a good indy.

    Really, if they bought from the dealer, they should have looked into prepaid maintenance - it can be a considerable savings.
    andres3 said:



    There's a few people at work that have gone with newer MB's lately. One younger lady asked me about oil changes, and I had to call out the MB dealerships oil change pricing the MB tax. The tax for thinking you are rich for buying a MB. That's the US marketing/reputation of MB. Does it come from less than ethical dealerships?

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