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Comments
If the management is encouraging guesswork in the interest of time, that really doesn't do anybody any favors.
Well the first step is to get everyone outside of the trade to accept that they can't just guess what is wrong with a car based on a given symptom. Testing has to be performed the right way, each and every time.
Those in the trade certainly should not be "guessing."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Not all problems are tricks. Not all trouble codes have triple meanings. Many do, but not all. You can be a DIYer and zero right in on the problem in some cases.
I can think of a handful of diagnoses I made which were proven correct. I let the repair shop FIX the problem, but I already knew what it was and what had to be done.
Naturally with 2018 cars a lot of what I said goes out the window. There are any number of systems on new cars that are simply not "serviceable". Not by ANYBODY in the field.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
On the Mini Cooper, too, the scan tool (borrowed a better one) picked up the defective seat belt receptacle (which is gas-charged). Cleaned all the connections, no change. So it's about 99% certain what the problem is, especially since these are notorious for failing. Ordered a used seat buckle (female) that was pre-tested for $65 bucks. So I'll be into this $65 + one hour of my labor vs. a repair shop doing the whole thing with a new part for $400.
On the Dodge pickup, the combination of the ABS light on and the speedometer failing at the same time was a solid tip-off that we were dealing with the differential speed sensor--which the scan tool correctly identified. That was a cheap fix, which I was able to do on my back with a few wrenches and a part sent UPS.
Point is--a shop approaches these problems differently, and I totally get that. They don't mess with used parts, and they will gladly rip apart the dashboard and replace all the motors for $2,000, or the seat belt for $400, or the speed sensor for $150. It's just all in a day's work for them.
What I was trying to do in all these cases was not to outwit the repair shops--they know way more than I do--but to get enough information that I could make an intelligent decision as to the next steps.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Sometimes a car presents with a condition that a test will just barely pass or fail somewhat randomly. That is often described as being an intermittent failure because the light can go on/off repeatedly over some period of time. Since it takes two passes or two fails to change the status of the MIL. In reality it could be failing a lot more than the driver might realize.
It is a good thing that automobile systems are pretty well protected from going boom. But being stranded can feel almost as bad as a big explosion.
https://www.cringely.com/2009/03/31/three-mile-island-memories/
The bottom line is to always think "system" when doing an analysis.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ownership/the-horror-of-the-check-engine-light-and-the-joy-of-fixing-it/ar-BBPF3jZ
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/53836/gmc/yukon-denali/what-are-these-little-indentations-for-on-the-sides-of-steering-wheel#latest
This video shows how to operate the release lever (spring) with the air bag removed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIatQITbGag
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
What's interesting is that he re-posted a photo of what appears to be the ACTUAL access holes. Puzzling!
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/53836/gmc/yukon-denali/what-are-these-little-indentations-for-on-the-sides-of-steering-wheel#latest
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/53836/gmc/yukon-denali/what-are-these-little-indentations-for-on-the-sides-of-steering-wheel#latest
It took less than twenty minutes to diagnose the car, two hours to capture the video, and almost ten hours of editing.
Good info in yours, though. I felt awkward watching you, though, like you were sitting on a foot stool at the dinner table or something. If you can align it so that your chin is in the center of the frame, it will make viewing much better.
Today there are no time studies actually performed, in other words, they don't actually employ someone who can do the job to prove if the time that they decide to pay is fair and accurate. Keep that in mind as you read the attached article from Automotive News.
https://www.autonews.com/article/20181217/RETAIL05/181219924/flat-rate-pay-system-continues-to-divide-dealers-and-technicians
Flat-rate pay system continues to divide dealers and technicians
Rick Popelyfoj@autonews.com
CHICAGO — The flat-rate pay system, which assigns specific amounts of time to do vehicle repair and maintenance work, was a key issue in last year’s strike of service technicians at Chicago-area auto dealerships. Flat-rate is a blessing to techs who can regularly beat “book times,” but a curse to others who can’t always complete jobs in the allotted times. The system, in place for decades, provides an incentive for techs to work faster, so they can book 50 or more hours a week while working only 40 and thus earn additional pay. It also enables dealership service departments to boost revenue by billing more labor time.
Tom Shirey, dealer principal of Shirey Cadillac in Oak Lawn, Ill., defends the incentive-based flat-rate system. It provides the same motivation traditionally used on the sales side of a dealership and increases shop efficiency, he says. “When the mechanic is on the incentive system, if he does the work correctly and fixes the problem, then he gets on to the next job without wasting any time,” Shirey told Fixed Ops Journal. “The only thing we sell in the service department is time. The more efficiently we use time, the better the end product is going to be for the mechanic, the dealership and the customer. “If there is no incentive and they’re on a 40-hour guarantee, you’re basically putting them on a weekly salary,” he adds. “We wouldn’t have been on an incentive system all these years if there were a better way.”
Beat the clock
Union-represented technicians say that beating the clock under the flat-rate system isn’t easy, even for experienced mechanics. That can affect the quality of repairs, they argue. “It promotes shoddy work because it makes a guy have to turn hours,” said John Buttney, a journeyman technician at Haggerty Buick-GMC in the Chicago suburb of Villa Park, Ill. Customers often tell a service adviser that a “noise is coming from somewhere,” Buttney adds, and that’s the only guidance the tech will receive. That lack of information forces techs to spend valuable time chasing the elusive noise or an electronic gremlin and fall behind schedule.
“It can be just [a loose] heat shield or something like that, and then you get paid a few tenths [of an hour] to fix it,” Buttney says.
Sam Cicinelli, a leader of the union that represents Chicago dealership technicians, says techs frequently encounter problems that increase repair times while the flat-rate clock keeps ticking. “You strip a bolt, and now you’ve just lost on that job because it’s taking you that much longer to replace a strut because one of the bolts is stuck on the housing,” Cicinelli says. “They have to get a torch, heat it up, tap it out or cut it off.”
Chris Becktel, a journeyman tech at Toyota of Naperville, says there is enough work at his shop that he can usually book more than 40 hours a week. But he is under constant pressure to beat the clock while tackling difficult jobs, he adds.
“The most skilled, highest qualified guys are usually given the worst work,” Becktel says. “They know the less qualified guys can’t fix it.”
I think part of the problem is that service advisers don't operate at a very high skill level themselves.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
It would be great if all master techs who are starting to age out could graduate to a more prestigious SA position that pays very well. He would be like the first mate on a ship, appointed due to vast experience to supervise the crew.
I think that "flat rate" is totally obsolete in this New Age. A modern tech has way too many hallways to walk down to estimate when he's going to get where he's going.
Woe is me!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
When it comes to DIY level, that can truly be anywhere on the scale, but to be eye level with the techs would demand much more time studying than the techs need to invest since the DIY'er wouldn't be spending forty to fifty hours each week applying the information. Top techs today need to study fifteen to twenty hours a week to just try to keep pace with all of the changes. Younger techs need to study even more than that because they don't have that lifetime of working and studying behind them.
To try and put a scale to this just look at evaporative emissions systems. The training, skills and education required to get someone competent to efficiently solve any problem with just that one system on any vehicle is more than anyone who isn't a technician generally ever acquires in their lifetime. You can watch the video and see just how many different little details were involved and what it took to prove without any guessing as to what was going on. Techs have had to learn how to work the way I demonstrated while everyone around them still thinks that all that ever needs to be done for an evaporative emissions problem is throw a gas cap at the car, or at the most do a smoke test.
The Actual Reasons Why Your Automotive Technicians Are Leaving You. Period.
There is one line in it that really sums it up.
Benefits - They are terrible and expensive. I remember having a friend in 08/09 who had a wife and 2 kids, all under the dealership health insurance plan. He got his paycheck (flat rate, with no work coming in the shop), and he OWED money for his paycheck.
Some people underestimate the value of employer provided insurance. When I was last employed in 2016, the total cost was $200/mo, and that was pre-tax.
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'Nuff said.
Now, people can't wait to get on Medicare. My wife has three years to go, and I have 4.5 years. Other than actually being that much older, I wish it was tomorrow.
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Our insurance is pretty decent, other than the premiums and the high deductibles ($2700 per person)
Fortunately, we have a premium reimbursement benefit that was part of our retirement benefits that covers almost half of the premium. That's still over $1100/mo out of pocket.
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If you have insurance, the medical provider writes off 80% of the bill, and then you pay 30% of what's left over. But, if you don't have insurance, you get charged the full amount. Medical billing is a racket. I have no ill will to those that stiff medical billers by filing bankruptcy.
I could list half a dozen stories about it, but that doesn't really fit the discussion.
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Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Why does the fact that some people successfully maintain and repair their own cars bother you so much? I realize that I stole food from a poor tech's mouth by doing it myself, but the simple fact is that I enjoy working on my cars- as well as saving money where I can.
As I've said before, It's too bad that you can't enjoy your life without letting everyone know that you are the greatest mechanic that ever spun a ratchet- all the while demeaning anyone who has the temerity to touch anything under the hood of their personal vehicle. I'd hate being so miserable.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
If there was any truth to what you just said I would never have given anybody any information/assistance. No, I have never claimed to be a great mechanic/technician. I do know people who are truely great in this field, I could only dream of being like them. I have to work hard all the time, study constantly, and not be afraid to take on new challenges and get to learn something new, even if that means getting beat up from time to time along the way. I know and accept that the next lesson this career is going to teach could be in the next car, that's just how difficult this work really is. Demeaning? Nobody deserves that title as much as you do.
Someone had to step up and start putting a stop to the kinds of abuse that people who choose this career have had to deal with. You obviously aren't ready to walk away from that and want to keep bullying, no different than the very first post I ever noted from you some seven plus years ago.