Real-World Trade-In Values

fushigi · January 2019

Thanks. She's looking at a Kona and in first round discussions the dealer isn't really coming down on price. They did up the we-haven't-seen-it-yet trade offer some for her Elantra but I'm still not impressed with the out-the-door number. I'm trying to talk my wife into waiting a while as there's really nothing wrong with her car at all. Problem is she went for an oil change and had her interest piqued by a salesman while waiting. This dealer ship is pretty good for servicing but I can't say I'm all that thrilled with the sales side.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

qbrozen said:
VIN works. Accident on autocheck.

I’d hit it about $5k, but you could get lucky. With such low miles, you should get bids from carvana and vroom.

Carfax shows "damage reported" but doesn't list it as an accident. It just says "damage to front" with a caveat that not all damage is an accident.

stickguy · January 2019

if she decided she wants a new car, why fight the inevitable?

fushigi · January 2019

Shifty - Thanks. That does add some more detail and might make a private party sale a slightly more doable option.

The Naperville Carmax is under a mile from my office so we'll take it there sometime this week for a competing bid. Will probably also take a look at vroom and carvana.

Stickguy - Because this was sudden. It had not been anything but an occasional 15 second mention, usually made by me, about some new car thing. She hadn't done any test driving or even test-sitting since last year's auto show (11 months ago). But she goes in for service, a sales guy approaches her, and now she's in the market. In this case correlation is definitely causation.

She's not always a very good negotiator and likes friendly conversation that salesmen can be good with (IMO she can be manipulated emotionally). So she tends to disclose things that put us at a negotiating disadvantage. Like letting the salesman make the convo about payment v. out-the-door price and what her max payment would be. Which of course tells him how much profit he can push into the deal. I could see the 4-square behind his eyes; it didn't have to be presented on paper.

As an aside, in case you can't tell, we each select & pay for our own cars. We discuss with each other but each make the final decisions ourselves. I'm her 'finance guy' and play devil's advocate so it's up to me to make sure she doesn't get taken advantage of. I'm fine with dealers making a reasonable profit but 'reasonable' is the key term.

stickguy · January 2019

I think if she got hooked that quick, the desire was already bubbling up to make a change. He just fanned the flames!

I can see picking out your own car (assuming you don't share, or one has to serve as the "family" car). But surprised that if you are happy to/good at the negotiating part and she isn't, that she doesn't just let you handle it (after she decides what she wants of course). She can just show up for the finance office piece of the action.

corvette · January 2019

Asking for a friend:
Duluth, MN
2004 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V8 4x4
176,000 miles
Silver exterior, grey interior
New tires and timing belt
No body rust, some frame rust

He's looking to sell to a private party.

28firefighter · January 2019

corvette said:

Asking for a friend: Duluth, MN 2004 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V8 4x4 176,000 miles Silver exterior, grey interior New tires and timing belt No body rust, some frame rust He's looking to sell to a private party.

Don’t know, but I’m sure stupid money for a rust car with almost 180k miles.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Hard to price something that is "ailing". If the frame rust is truly structural, then it's off to the wrecking yard (that means perforated rust--holes in the frame). If it's just heavy scale that can be ground off and treated, then maybe not so drastic a price drop.

Maybe $1,800 to $2,500, depending on how it shows cosmetically. If frame is rotted with holes, then junk it for the sake of humanity.

stickguy · January 2019

it's a 4 runner. will probably just roll a new frame under there and get 10K for it.

qbrozen · January 2019

Wouldn't see more than $5k for it even without the rust. So it all depends on the extent of the problem.

corvette · January 2019

Thanks. I'm not sure how bad the frame rust is - anything that age is going to have some surface rust. He had it listed for $6,400 and got no interest. I told him to drop the asking price below $6k.

sb55 · January 2019

corvette said:
Thanks. I'm not sure how bad the frame rust is - anything that age is going to have some surface rust. He had it listed for $6,400 and got no interest. I told him to drop the asking price below $6k.

Didn't the 4Runners have the same frame recall as the Tacomas and Tundras?

nyccarguy · January 2019

Good morning @qbrozen. Can you please give me an approximate trade in value for my Mom's 2016 Porsche Cayenne:

2016 Porsche Cayenne Base
V6 - AWD
White (The No Charge White) with Tan Guts
67,000 miles
Brand New Tires (maybe 4K miles)
18" Wheels
Dealer Serviced Since New
No Paint Work
Average Condition 7.5 - 8/10 exterior
Average Condition interior (driver's side bolster showing wear from Mom sliding in & out) 7.5
It has the $10,000 ish option package that combines 3 option packages (lighting, premium, navigation)
Located in the New York City Suburbs (NYC Metro Area)

It barely fits in my parents' garage. My mom just turned 70 and is starting to worry she's going to hit the stairs on the left side pulling in one day. She's going to drive a Macan which is about 3" narrower.

mhockey21 · January 2019

Ended up buying the 2015. It's gorgeous!!

Question -
I have a few days to decide whether I want to get Audi Care for theAudi Q3! (Which, I think I got a great price for because of you). Audi Care would be $795 and would cover the next two services

Some details about driving:
About 5-7 miles a day. Tiny amount

Some details about warranty expiration:
BTB ends 6/19
CPO ends 6/2020

Should I do it?

stickguy · January 2019

$800 for 2 services, basically glorified oil changes? Seems steep. Does that even include a DSG service?

28firefighter · January 2019

Find out what it includes and the find out what the next two services require by time then make a decision based on what AudiCare includes.

qbrozen · January 2019

nyccarguy said:
Good morning @qbrozen. Can you please give me an approximate trade in value for my Mom's 2016 Porsche Cayenne:

2016 Porsche Cayenne Base
V6 - AWD
White (The No Charge White) with Tan Guts
67,000 miles
Brand New Tires (maybe 4K miles)
18" Wheels
Dealer Serviced Since New
No Paint Work
Average Condition 7.5 - 8/10 exterior
Average Condition interior (driver's side bolster showing wear from Mom sliding in & out) 7.5
It has the $10,000 ish option package that combines 3 option packages (lighting, premium, navigation)
Located in the New York City Suburbs (NYC Metro Area)

It barely fits in my parents' garage. My mom just turned 70 and is starting to worry she's going to hit the stairs on the left side pulling in one day. She's going to drive a Macan which is about 3" narrower.

$28k-$29k zip code

nyccarguy · January 2019

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:
Good morning @qbrozen. Can you please give me an approximate trade in value for my Mom's 2016 Porsche Cayenne:

2016 Porsche Cayenne Base
V6 - AWD
White (The No Charge White) with Tan Guts
67,000 miles
Brand New Tires (maybe 4K miles)
18" Wheels
Dealer Serviced Since New
No Paint Work
Average Condition 7.5 - 8/10 exterior
Average Condition interior (driver's side bolster showing wear from Mom sliding in & out) 7.5
It has the $10,000 ish option package that combines 3 option packages (lighting, premium, navigation)
Located in the New York City Suburbs (NYC Metro Area)

It barely fits in my parents' garage. My mom just turned 70 and is starting to worry she's going to hit the stairs on the left side pulling in one day. She's going to drive a Macan which is about 3" narrower.
$28k-$29k zip code

not too bad. I'll let you know how they make out.

andres3 · January 2019

tjc78 said:
Why try and scam the system.... people like you is what causes the rest of us to have obscene rates.

I'm not the one out there crashing into people without insurance causing rates to skyrocket.
I'm not the one out there crashing into people at all (although there was that parking lot incident where I dispute fault, but in 25 years that's the only disputed fault accident I've had).
I didn't say lie, I said forget. The question is irrelevant as to rates, so why volunteer it? Also, State Farm was the only insurer to ask the dumb question; not Geico, nor anyone else.
Lastly, the system itself is a scam, so why play ball?

andres3 · January 2019

stickguy said:
oh, they can deny a claim. Just consider it insurance fraud (lying on the application) and the policy is invalid.

They'd have to prove you lied, and then they'd have to prove the lie substantially altered your insurance risk in a lawsuit though? Could get you into legal entanglements for sure though; won't deny that.

There are worse things you could do with your time than battle Insurance companies in Court though. I'm 1 for 1 in the Courts against them myself.

andres3 · January 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:
VIN works. Accident on autocheck.

I’d hit it about $5k, but you could get lucky. With such low miles, you should get bids from carvana and vroom.
Carfax shows "damage reported" but doesn't list it as an accident. It just says "damage to front" with a caveat that not all damage is an accident.

I'm curious what damage isn't from an "accident?" Does that include purposefully driving it into a brick wall? How about deliberately "jumping" it on a ramp?
Act of god like a Tree falling on it?

andres3 · January 2019

steine13 said:
I gotta ask my dad what he pays in car insurance... it's probably $30 to 40/month after all this time.

To answer your question, YEAH I would... because it goes down after 6 months of accident-free driving.. and down... and down. She would have been adjusted downward four times already and be paying 0.8 x the standard rate by now, after starting at 2.3 x the standard rate.

The other factor in the system -- and that is kinda dumb but kinda effective -- is the rate is indexed to horsepower. That has nothing to do with risk but keeps kids in smaller, slower cars, which is not a bad idea.

I'm not saying we should adopt that model..there are other problems with it... I'm saying we should improve OUR model. And we should get uninsured drivers off the road. In reality, the problem is ignored, but if an individual is caught driving without insurance, it can easily send them into a downwards spiral of fines and debt from which they can not extricate themselves. This serves nobody well. A friend's wife works at the Lansing court, she has some horrible stories.

An old friend of mine got stupid and simply forgot to pay his car insurance. He just wasn't taking care of his mail -- this is in the 80s. When his insurance lapsed, the police came and unbolted his license plates. No more driving until he fixed it. Seems like a pretty simple solution, but in 2019, we can't figure this out in the great state of MI, which has rates to rival New Jersey.

This started with a question about "scamming" Geico. I'm saying it's pretty clear car insurance has bigger problems than andres3 fibbing about a voided ticket.
I'm buying insurance, not consenting to a colonoscopy.

I just want to reiterate that no insurance company but State Farm (for the purposes of a quote) asked me the dumb question about "voided tickets." Geico doesn't ask that silly of a question because they probably know silly questions will get silly answers.

My current (and previous) insurance has been with Geico. I renewed. I've been with them for like 7 years now.

andres3 · January 2019

roadburner said:
I've repeated this before, but one of my friends was a state legislator who served on an insurance subcommittee. He once asked some insurance officials for data that showed that 1-2 speeding tickets increased an insurer's loss exposure; he never received it.

To be fair... some insurance companies are starting to look at citations as almost a non-factor in rating you. Almost.

Also, as I learned, a not-at-fault accident from January 2014 might not hurt you, but it will if you get blamed for an accident in 2018, now you have 2 accidents, and the rates have an exponential algorithm it seems. It seems many application questions now ask going back 5 years (used to be 3 years by State law). Those insurance lobbies must be hard at work and successful!

stickguy · January 2019

andres3 said:

stickguy said:
oh, they can deny a claim. Just consider it insurance fraud (lying on the application) and the policy is invalid.
They'd have to prove you lied, and then they'd have to prove the lie substantially altered your insurance risk in a lawsuit though? Could get you into legal entanglements for sure though; won't deny that.

There are worse things you could do with your time than battle Insurance companies in Court though. I'm 1 for 1 in the Courts against them myself.

my guess is, once they denied the claim, you would have to prove you did not lie (commit fraud), not the other way around.

andres3 · January 2019

algorr

stickguy said:

andres3 said:

stickguy said:
oh, they can deny a claim. Just consider it insurance fraud (lying on the application) and the policy is invalid.
They'd have to prove you lied, and then they'd have to prove the lie substantially altered your insurance risk in a lawsuit though? Could get you into legal entanglements for sure though; won't deny that.

There are worse things you could do with your time than battle Insurance companies in Court though. I'm 1 for 1 in the Courts against them myself.
my guess is, once they denied the claim, you would have to prove you did not lie (commit fraud), not the other way around.

I suppose, though once they deny the claim, the gloves come off anyway.

Anyways, the point of my post is that they don't have a record and you can't remember, it really doesn't seem reasonable a claim would ever be denied for that reason on a frivolous question. Though as has been pointed out, it wouldn't be the first time an Insurance company acted unreasonably.

Just the mere act of asking the question is unreasonable.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

andres3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:
VIN works. Accident on autocheck.

I’d hit it about $5k, but you could get lucky. With such low miles, you should get bids from carvana and vroom.
Carfax shows "damage reported" but doesn't list it as an accident. It just says "damage to front" with a caveat that not all damage is an accident.
I'm curious what damage isn't from an "accident?" Does that include purposefully driving it into a brick wall? How about deliberately "jumping" it on a ramp?
Act of god like a Tree falling on it?

Good question----maybe something like hail damage, or road hazard---these are not "accidents" as in willful acts committed by the driver. At least that's my interpretation of the different between damage and accident.

kyfdx · January 2019

The insurance company doesn't have to do any of that. They can deny the claim, then you have to "prove" it.

andres3 · January 2019

kyfdx said:
The insurance company doesn't have to do any of that. They can deny the claim, then you have to "prove" it.

Any insurance company can do that at any time for any reason. I won't lose sleep over it.

fushigi · January 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:
VIN works. Accident on autocheck.

I’d hit it about $5k, but you could get lucky. With such low miles, you should get bids from carvana and vroom.
Carfax shows "damage reported" but doesn't list it as an accident. It just says "damage to front" with a caveat that not all damage is an accident.

FYI Carmax offered $7K this evening and we explicitly mentioned it was in an accident (they ask).

The dealer can get an AWD Kona Ultimate (highest trim) in her preferred colors, etc. We were after the Limited (2nd highest). Don't really need the Ultimate's added features but aren't averse to them. Will see how low they'll go on it to try & close the deal.

qbrozen · January 2019

$7k? Take the money and run like a bandit!

Sandman6472 · January 2019

Like the new Kona from Hyundai, a lot but just wish it's mpg's were better. They're about the same as the Nissan Kicks I think and betting most folks will cross shop the two. I know I will when my kid decides to get a new vehicle. The perfect size for us both. I'd go with the top level model since my next vehicle will be my retirement gift to me.

qbrozen · January 2019

How about the Niro for better mpgs?

nyccarguy · January 2019

Sandman6472 said:
Like the new Kona from Hyundai, a lot but just wish it's mpg's were better. They're about the same as the Nissan Kicks I think and betting most folks will cross shop the two. I know I will when my kid decides to get a new vehicle. The perfect size for us both. I'd go with the top level model since my next vehicle will be my retirement gift to me.

Sandy,

I'm saying this as your friend. Retirement gift & Hyundai Kona shouldn't be used in the same same post.

fushigi · January 2019

The Kona is actually very nice .. within limits. The wheelbase is somewhat short so the ride can be a little bouncy on uneven roads. And IMO there aren't nearly enough soft-touch surfaces throughout the cabin for a vehicle that, loaded, approaches $30K sticker. They also really ought to offer a tan interior.

That said, the combination of the 1.6T + AWD equals a lot of grunt off the line (C&D says 0-60 in 6.6). Seats are comfortable. There are a lot of nice touches like the screen between speedo & tach showing changes in intermittent wiper settings for a few seconds and other things which lets you avoid fumbling to look at knobs in a dark cabin. And it has all of the modern safety aids like lane departure assist, emergency braking, etc. (Top Safety Pick +).

..and my wife is picking hers up this afternoon. After CarMax offered $7K for her Elantra, the Hyundai dealer offered $7500, which is effectively more like $8K as in Illinois the trade is applied before the sale price, reducing state sales tax by over $500. Also got TMV pricing, $1250 in rebates, and rejected the mop & glo/other add-ons. She'd have taken delivery last night but they had to get from another dealer 30+ miles away & still needed to do the prep. Did we get The Best Deal? I'm sure not. But it's acceptable to me & my wife is happy and that matters way more than a few extra $.

stickguy · January 2019

Sounds to me like you did great. Really is a nice car too, and I can confirm that the power train is quite zippy, and I got much better MPG that the sticker listed.

nyccarguy · January 2019

fushigi said:
The Kona is actually very nice .. within limits. The wheelbase is somewhat short so the ride can be a little bouncy on uneven roads. And IMO there aren't nearly enough soft-touch surfaces throughout the cabin for a vehicle that, loaded, approaches $30K sticker. They also really ought to offer a tan interior.

That said, the combination of the 1.6T + AWD equals a lot of grunt off the line (C&D says 0-60 in 6.6). Seats are comfortable. There are a lot of nice touches like the screen between speedo & tach showing changes in intermittent wiper settings for a few seconds and other things which lets you avoid fumbling to look at knobs in a dark cabin. And it has all of the modern safety aids like lane departure assist, emergency braking, etc. (Top Safety Pick +).

..and my wife is picking hers up this afternoon. After CarMax offered $7K for her Elantra, the Hyundai dealer offered $7500, which is effectively more like $8K as in Illinois the trade is applied before the sale price, reducing state sales tax by over $500. Also got TMV pricing, $1250 in rebates, and rejected the mop & glo/other add-ons. She'd have taken delivery last night but they had to get from another dealer 30+ miles away & still needed to do the prep. Did we get The Best Deal? I'm sure not. But it's acceptable to me & my wife is happy and that matters way more than a few extra $.

Please don't take my message to Sandy as an insult to the Kona. They are nice, offer a lot of features for the dollar, and as you said; are reasonably quick. Congrats on the PUNCH! Be sure to check back in to register it with CCBA.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Maybe he'd like the Kona EV when it comes out?

tjc78 · January 2019

I was just checking out the Kona. Nice little Ute, with an impressive list of features. HUD in an under 30K vehicle? Not bad.

I didn't look up the sizing, but what is it comparable to? Buick Encore?

stickguy · January 2019

Little bigger than a golf. Maybe a Mazda CX3? Nice useful size in person.

xwesx · January 2019

Looks a lot like the size of a Crosstrek, so probably in that compact CUV territory.

fronttwelv · January 2019

roadburner said:
Color?
Location?
Tire/brake wear percentage?

Black Sapphire Metallic
new tires and brakes (brakes done a week ago, tires about 10k miles on them, factory run flats)
Location: 43004

qbrozen · January 2019

fronttwelv said:

Color? Location? Tire/brake wear percentage?
Black Sapphire Metallic new tires and brakes (brakes done a week ago, tires about 10k miles on them, factory run flats) Location: 43004

Hmmm...something has gone amiss. I don’t know what vehicle this is and don’t see a previous post.

kyfdx · January 2019

qbrozen said:

fronttwelv said:

roadburner said:
Color?
Location?
Tire/brake wear percentage?
Black Sapphire Metallic
new tires and brakes (brakes done a week ago, tires about 10k miles on them, factory run flats)
Location: 43004

Hmmm...something has gone amiss. I don’t know what vehicle this is and don’t see a previous post.

LOL.. from October:
https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5580042/#Comment_5580042

qbrozen · January 2019

Oh good grief. Well I would imagine the miles have gone up by now, sooo....

kyfdx · January 2019

qbrozen said:
Oh good grief. Well I would imagine the miles have gone up by now, sooo....

From other recent posts, I think he is back in the market

stickguy · January 2019

wonder how much it went down in 3 months?

clm8 · January 2019

I'm looking for a trade in value for the following:

2006 BMW 325 Convertible
White, gray leather, navy blue top
Leather, auto, power heated seats
Car Fax shows light damage to rear, rear bumper repainted, front bumper replaced
No scratches, dents or rust, inside very good no stains or tears
Tires 5,000 miles
78,000 miles, no known mechanical issues

Thank you

clm8 · January 2019

Sorry, left out location, Indianapolis

qbrozen · January 2019

$2k-$2500.

you definitely do NOT want to trade this in. Sell it yourself. I'm sure you could be quite bold and ask $6995 for it. You'd likely get AT LEAST $5500 for it.

kyfdx · January 2019

I agree... those are low, low miles for a 2006 model.
Someone will snap it up.

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