Inconsiderate Drivers II (share your stories, etc.)

cdnpinhead · January 2019

I hauled overdimensional loads for several years in the late '70s, up to 14'2" high and 12 feet wide. Professional drivers don't screw up like this, but as we all know, people who actually know what they're doing are in painfully short supply these days. When they are available, they cost more. Imagine.

ruking1 · January 2019

In another life time, (mid 70’s) I too was licensed to haul oversize loads and explosives.

Sentence #2 response. Absolutely no disrespect, but it is really not rocket science ( my other side of being licensed to haul...) . In addition, the (trucking) industry is contracting; not expanding. Overall the industry is forced to hire less drivers.

Routes for professional drivers are normally well laid out.

There is a well USED 3 lane each way route, curving through this town: that all manner of oversized traffic flows, i.e., one half of modular homes & huge home trailers, huge off road construction equipment, etc.. We routinely get up along either side of those rigs with NO real fear. The drivers literally guide their rigs like they are on rails. If one is really looking, one can see/sense if these drivers convey confidence or fear.

fintail · January 2019

On the theme of turn lanes from the off topic forum: Almost every day my evening commute takes me on a road where I turn left, one turn lane onto a two lane in each direction street. There's also a right turn lane across from my lane, which of course is red when we have green. All seemed normal today, we got green, people started trudging along. In the opposing right turn lane, a big white GMC (I think) pickup with a sign on the side bullies its way through red and enters the line of cars turning left, causing them to slow. Me being me, I lay on the horn, and the donkey's butt driving the pickup motions something out his window. He gets stuck in the right lane, I go by on the left, and he is still moving around, trying to get into the left lane to get into the next turn lane (I was going straight). Eventually, he got stuck in a jam and was far behind me. Something about 4x4s and bullying traffic. Try that stunt in LA Houston or Chicago, and it might not end well.

xwesx · January 2019

Wait, so why would this guy have needed to bully his way into the line? If he was turning right, could he not have just used the right lane since the rest of you were turning left (and, presumably, into the left of the two lanes?). That is just silliness.

We have an intersection here with a fueling station / convenience store on the corner. Many folks turning left onto the street that accesses this site follow up with an immediate right into the lot, so I tend to be extra cautious when making a right there during any left-turn periods since the turners do need to access the right lane very quickly after the intersection. However, at most intersections, I just make my right as people are turning left. If they decide to pull into the far right lane as part of their turn, my being in "their way" is simply their own fault.

Likewise, if I am making a left turn during a "yield on green" period, I do not wait for right turners to take my left since we have separate lanes. Again, if they create a conflict, then their problem. I'm not on the road to soothe their egos by validating their poor lane discipline.

fintail · January 2019

He was turning right on red in front of left turning traffic who had a green light, then trying to veer into the left lane to get to the next intersection. He should have just waited til he had a green light, as it didn't seem he was capable of turning the corner and staying in the right lane - not that anyone pulls into the correct (nearest) lane anyway. And with a business sign on the truck - probably his dad's or something.

Dual turn lanes also get to me - whenever possible, I try to have nobody beside me, I don't trust most drivers here.

xwesx · January 2019

fintail said:
He was turning right on red in front of left turning traffic who had a green light, then trying to veer into the left lane to get to the next intersection. He should have just waited til he had a green light, as it didn't seem he was capable of turning the corner and staying in the right lane - not that anyone pulls into the correct (nearest) lane anyway. And with a business sign on the truck - probably his dad's or something.

Dual turn lanes also get to me - whenever possible, I try to have nobody beside me, I don't trust most drivers here.

Okay, I get it now. He *could* have turned without conflict, but was trying to do the same thing that so many left turners do: Failure to take the nearest lane. Thanks for clarifying!

ruking1 · January 2019

fintail said:
He was turning right on red in front of left turning traffic who had a green light, then trying to veer into the left lane to get to the next intersection. He should have just waited til he had a green light, as it didn't seem he was capable of turning the corner and staying in the right lane - not that anyone pulls into the correct (nearest) lane anyway. And with a business sign on the truck - probably his dad's or something.

Dual turn lanes also get to me - whenever possible, I try to have nobody beside me, I don't trust most drivers here.

This also describes what can happen on the left/right lane/s turn/s also! The answers can be/are simple & safer. Get in (left/right hand turn lanes) line/s far earlier. Go to the next turn, come back around either left or right.

As for sounding the horn ? To me, 9.5/10 it’s absolutely pointless, because they (the perp) already know(s) what they are doing. Giving no quarter, or signaling to turn into the perp seems to work better.

Again, I would have to defer to your judgment. The “younger entitled set” driving daddy’s P/U/car can be a set of losers.

fintail · January 2019

Really, even though it is a legal "free" turn, one would have to be brave to take it around here, where so many cars don't go for the nearest lane when turning.

Regarding the horn, pressure release valve, it feels good. And it is a faux pas to the uptight "civil" passive aggressive local mentality, which makes it that much better.

xwesx said:

Okay, I get it now. He *could* have turned without conflict, but was trying to do the same thing that so many left turners do: Failure to take the nearest lane. Thanks for clarifying!

ruking1 · January 2019

fintail said:
Really, even though it is a legal "free" turn, one would have to be brave to take it around here, where so many cars don't go for the nearest lane when turning.

Regarding the horn, pressure release valve, it feels good. And it is a faux pas to the uptight "civil" passive aggressive local mentality, which makes it that much better.

xwesx said:

Okay, I get it now. He *could* have turned without conflict, but was trying to do the same thing that so many left turners do: Failure to take the nearest lane. Thanks for clarifying!

‘Tis good to get ones’ jollies off !? 😜

There were times, I had high dB air horns mounted. We didn’t have to use them much. Most sane folks really didn’t want to cut close in front of high torque forward moving push bars & tubular fences. 😉 But anymore, it’s been easy to see what’s going to happen before it actually does.

fintail · January 2019

Semi horns on a normal car could be fun. Yes, a nice honk can feel good now and then, especially with the timid inept idiots here. Funny that when I've driven in Europe, I don't recall needing to use the horn. Heck, even on my recent trip to Chicago and Detroit etc, people knew how to keep moving.

ruking1 · January 2019

Indeed * 2!

It actually makes me wax historic, to the time/s when horns lights/high beams, turn signals, etc. used to be a part of “old” school language/driving. There are indeed precious few who practice this; let alone know what some of the signals mean. Some truckers understand & practice this.

fintail · January 2019

I see that now and then too, a horn or high beams used as communication, not rage. I doubt many would understand it these days, especially in metro areas. In some places, those are still communication tools, I think I recall seeing roads in India being a chatter of horns, not in rage, just people letting others know they are there.

ruking1 · January 2019

When passing on two lane roads, (like in New Mexico) I make sure my low beams and sometimes high beams are on. Many times, if you’re passing a tractor trailer truck, they will aid you by blowing a horn or flashing lights. One easy signal, the rig hits the rear brake lamps. Once it’s “clear” to pass, use the left turn signal. When it’s safe to come back in your own lane, make a right turn signal.

Kudos to the state of New Mexico for clearly marking passing areas & starting/ending boundaries. But I have to say it’s a tad sobering to see a lot of “white crosses” in areas that don’t make a lot of logical sense.😩

xwesx · January 2019

Curious bit this morning...

For several miles, there was a third-gen Subaru Outback ahead of me on the highway by a small distance. Small meaning that I was cruising along a few seconds behind it for much of the time. At one point, I see a school bus in the left lane ahead, so I re-positioned to the right lane in order to increase my chances of making it through the upcoming intersection without having to stop for the light that was likely to change any moment.

I was cruising at about 60 or a touch over after having just passed a vehicle in the right lane. The Subaru was still in the left lane, approaching the bus, and maybe a second ahead of me (three or four car lengths). At this point, the driver really had not slowed at all, so I got a strong suspicion that he was planning to shift right (in front of me) to pass. However, no signal, no indication of any kind. As such, I maintained speed and continued to close the distance.

Now that the Subaru is really getting close to the bus, the driver makes the choice to jump in front of me (signaled as the car was already changing lanes) with now under a second separating us. As soon as the lane change occurred, I dropped the accelerator pedal so my car would slow and I could re-establish a reasonable following distance. And, instead of maintaining or increasing speed, the driver slows down (no brakes, but obviously decelerating). Our vehicles closed distance until I was maybe a car length behind, and finally I decided I would have to use the brakes to shed more speed. Once I fell back into a decent pace, I was going about 50 behind the Subaru, which finally finished passing the bus and went back to the left lane. However, once it was in the left lane and I returned to 60, the car pulled away from me.

I just don't get what the driver was doing.... Other than that head-scratcher, it seemed like the driver was being smooth and consistent, etc, so it was like they just fell asleep for a moment. LOL

ruking1 · January 2019

Hmmmm..... but yes, smooth and consistent is what its really all about !

ab348 · January 2019

ruking1 said:
Indeed * 2!

It actually makes me wax historic, to the time/s when horns lights/high beams, turn signals, etc. used to be a part of “old” school language/driving. There are indeed precious few who practice this; let alone know what some of the signals mean. Some truckers understand & practice this.

I recall as a little kid in the 1960s when all our highways here were 2-lanes, that Dad would always do a quick beep-beep on the horn when he pulled into the (empty) oncoming lane to pass a slower car. Nobody got upset.

tjc78 · January 2019

ab348 said:

Indeed * 2! It actually makes me wax historic, to the time/s when horns lights/high beams, turn signals, etc. used to be a part of “old” school language/driving. There are indeed precious few who practice this; let alone know what some of the signals mean. Some truckers understand & practice this.
I recall as a little kid in the 1960s when all our highways here were 2-lanes, that Dad would always do a quick beep-beep on the horn when he pulled into the (empty) oncoming lane to pass a slower car. Nobody got upset.

Today you would probably get a one finger salute for that!

fintail · January 2019

Sounds like someone dozed off, yeah.

I beeped twice today - first at some kind of Civrolla box that was going around a corner at 2mph and holding up traffic, another at an ILX (I think) that decided to stumble into my lane as I was beside it - then shot back when I honked. Normal day.

Two no-lighters - Venza and Focus. Also saw a Prius with parking lights and fog lights but no headlights.

ruking1 · January 2019

My last witnessed alledged “falling asleep @ the wheel” incident (admittedly a long time ago) was on an early morning inbound trip to Las Vegas, NV. On the Las Vegas outbound direction/route, (toward CA) I saw in the distance a dark (what looked to be) tornadoes, As the dust settled, & as I approached, a then upside sedan was coming to rest. I resumed speed, dialing 911. Later, the incident hit the early morning Las Vegas, NV area news.

To more pressing news: I was reading that opioid deaths (49,000 per year) kill more people than car crashes. (34,500)

ab348 · January 2019

My witnessing an asleep at the wheel incident happened maybe 10 years ago. One afternoon I was on a divided expressway with a large grassy median separating the two roadways that was in the shape of a shallow valley. Traffic was light and I was in the left lane doing about 70mph, having been some distance behind a late model Honda Civic for a while. I noticed the Honda drifting gradually to the left, onto the paved, then gravel shoulder, before continuing left and making its way onto the grass. The grassy area was not perfectly smooth so the Civic began experiencing a series of bumps before encountering a larger one that got it slightly airborne. I had let off the gas during all this so my speed was probably less than his when all this happened. After the big bump the driver regained control, slowed, and began piloting the Honda back towards the roadway as I went past. The guy was incredibly lucky not to have done serious damage to himself, the car, and others on the road.

ruking1 · January 2019

Yes, I’m not sure to this day why I enjoy driving at night.

There are literally too many disadvantages. DUI, cars and the night seem to be unwise choices. A lot of people don’t have good night vision. Headlamps have been designed for speeds of 55mph. It’s always wise to drop approximately 10% & sometimes more off ones speed. In certain parts of the country, during the night animals seem drawn to roadways. I’m sure the list goes on and on.

xwesx · January 2019

ab's story makes me think about a similar situation (with a UPS tractor) I experienced many years ago (July 1999) while traveling toward Chicago on I90.

It was probably 0300, there was very little traffic on the road. I was driving my old 1969 C20, just bopping along at 65mph. Over time, I slowly approached this semi ahead, so I could see it for miles and miles. When i was probably a quarter-mile back, I noticed that the lights started to drift a little to the left, then a little to the right, then whip back center for a while before drifting again.

I sped up a little to get to the point of passing faster. By the time I came up on him, he drifted heavily into the left lane before pulling right, then onto the shoulder, etc. In other words, he was getting bad!

I waited back there for a minute or so, getting the guy's rhythm down and flashed my lights, honked, etc. When he started correcting right after having drifted into the left lane, I laid on the truck, passed him as quickly as possible while blaring the horn, got in front, swerved around a little while honking, and suddenly the truck straightens out, the guy toots his horn a few times, then immediately slowed and took the next exit.

Hopefully, he remembers that incident as well as I do, because I think he was within minutes of wrecking that beast.

fintail · January 2019

I see lots of people who are maybe mentally not awake, but not technically asleep.

This is amusing - I guess it can only go one way, if drivers were any less aggressive here, they'd curl up and take a nap.

ruking1 · January 2019

I’m reminded of a discussion we had down here between friends, (some retired LEO’s) when one is doing “it”, one is the smartest driver on the planet. From the perspective of watching: one of the dumbest drivers/moves on the planet. Somewhere in the middle or even left and right is the truth. I’ve always approached it from the standpoint of view: legally defensible/defensive driving

fintail · January 2019

Like the old George Carlin line about everyone going faster than me is insane, and everyone going slower is an idiot.

ruking1 · January 2019

While George Carlin has been a good graphic, staticstics have proven time & time again that (inappropriate) speed kills/injures in app less than 20% fatalities/accidents. This of course indicates that the majority (80% to PLUS) of fatalities/accidents occur well within or below the speed limits. I’m sure that most people see the “speed kills” myths & irony in this. As a practical measure, most people do not exceed the 85 percentile natural rule anyway. (85 % tile= overwhelming majority?)

Indeed, The optics make strong graphics for states legalizing marijuana wanting to keep the fatalities/accident statistics abnormally high. The states of course can point at the new boogie man. (Huey Lewis and the News; I’ve got a new drug) This hypocrisy is beyond the pale, that defies logic, human decency and emotion. On the other hand, the DWI fatality injury rates @ 50 % has steadily been going down @ now less than 40%, albeit slowly.

thebean · January 2019

ab348 said:
My witnessing an asleep at the wheel incident happened maybe 10 years ago. One afternoon I was on a divided expressway with a large grassy median separating the two roadways that was in the shape of a shallow valley. Traffic was light and I was in the left lane doing about 70mph, having been some distance behind a late model Honda Civic for a while. I noticed the Honda drifting gradually to the left, onto the paved, then gravel shoulder, before continuing left and making its way onto the grass. The grassy area was not perfectly smooth so the Civic began experiencing a series of bumps before encountering a larger one that got it slightly airborne. I had let off the gas during all this so my speed was probably less than his when all this happened. After the big bump the driver regained control, slowed, and began piloting the Honda back towards the roadway as I went past. The guy was incredibly lucky not to have done serious damage to himself, the car, and others on the road.

I'll wager his underwear had some serious damage.

ruking1 · January 2019

Let’s hear it for “depends” 😎

fintail · January 2019

This evening I was on a busy arterial, right lane, with traffic in the left lane backing up for an approaching turn lane. Ahead of me, a Camry decides to jam on the brakes and try to squeeze into the left lane. Of course, it couldn't fit, so I got to hit the brakes and swerve (while laying on the horn, of course). To make it even better, a Prius behind me, following a little close, had to really dive on the brakes to stop, I could see it trying - they must not stop well. Horn works.

andres3 · January 2019

People in the past have scoffed when I mention driving slower is less safe because you increase your time-exposure to random hazards.

I've found an analogy.

Is it harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball, or a 50 MPH fastball? One is used for blasting homeruns during batting practice or homerun derby, while the other belonged to strikeout king pitchers like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens.

When I drive slow, I feel like a 50 MPH fastball, and all the bad drivers out there are targeting me. Be the 100 MPH fastball, make yourself hard to hit.

Michaell · January 2019

andres3 said:
People in the past have scoffed when I mention driving slower is less safe because you increase your time-exposure to random hazards.

I've found an analogy.

Is it harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball, or a 50 MPH fastball? One is used for blasting homeruns during batting practice or homerun derby, while the other belonged to strikeout king pitchers like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens.

When I drive slow, I feel like a 50 MPH fastball, and all the bad drivers out there are targeting me. Be the 100 MPH fastball, make yourself hard to hit.

And extending that analogy, how many batters go on the DL if they are plunked with a 60-70 MPH knuckleball or curve ball? How many when hit by the high heater? Especially at or near the head?

tjc78 · January 2019

andres3 said:

People in the past have scoffed when I mention driving slower is less safe because you increase your time-exposure to random hazards. I've found an analogy. Is it harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball, or a 50 MPH fastball? One is used for blasting homeruns during batting practice or homerun derby, while the other belonged to strikeout king pitchers like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens. When I drive slow, I feel like a 50 MPH fastball, and all the bad drivers out there are targeting me. Be the 100 MPH fastball, make yourself hard to hit.

Were you hit with a fastball or just don’t remember high school physics?

Speed limits are usually under posted, but to think driving at 100 MPH is safer than 50 under the same conditions is just flat out nuts.

kyfdx · January 2019

tjc78 said:

andres3 said:

People in the past have scoffed when I mention driving slower is less safe because you increase your time-exposure to random hazards.

I've found an analogy.

Is it harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball, or a 50 MPH fastball? One is used for blasting homeruns during batting practice or homerun derby, while the other belonged to strikeout king pitchers like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens.

When I drive slow, I feel like a 50 MPH fastball, and all the bad drivers out there are targeting me. Be the 100 MPH fastball, make yourself hard to hit.

Were you hit with a fastball or just don’t remember high school physics?

Speed limits are usually under posted, but to think driving at 100 MPH is safer than 50 under the same conditions is just flat out nuts.

Physics are different in Alaska...

ruking1 · January 2019

A fair #/% of drivers learned

tjc78 said:

andres3 said:

People in the past have scoffed when I mention driving slower is less safe because you increase your time-exposure to random hazards.

I've found an analogy.

Is it harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball, or a 50 MPH fastball? One is used for blasting homeruns during batting practice or homerun derby, while the other belonged to strikeout king pitchers like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens.

When I drive slow, I feel like a 50 MPH fastball, and all the bad drivers out there are targeting me. Be the 100 MPH fastball, make yourself hard to hit.

Were you hit with a fastball or just don’t remember high school physics?

Speed limits are usually under posted, but to think driving at 100 MPH is safer than 50 under the same conditions is just flat out nuts. ‘...

If one thinks that he is saying that (what you assert), (last sentence) one is absolutely wrong. Indeed, I have address that issue more (than once) using IN/APPROPRIATE speed. So SPEED can be IN/APPROPRIATE at 1, 50 mph or 100 mph, etc. I’m guessing MOST folks understand this?

Of course, speed limits are under posted ! To say that conveys little to no information. Really do you post the same speed limit in a clover leaf curve for a 80,000 pound tractor-trailer load in a cloverleaf, as one does for a +1 g Corvette ZR1?

So using your logic, 80%+ plus of fatalities/accidents happen @ or below speed limits! ? That is truly a very very poor argument for ... speed limits.

tjc78 · January 2019

@ruking1
I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say.

@andres3 said he felt that driving slower is less safe than driving faster.

I simply don’t agree with that statement

I never mentioned anything about percentages or that more fatalities occur under the speed limit.

ruking1 · January 2019

I’m responding to what you were asserting, ... with figures & facts. So if I have misstated/understood what you were asserting, please let me know.

ab348 · January 2019

Yesterday I pulled up to a 2-lane stoplight. I was in the straight-ahead lane and was next to a young lady in a Veloster in the left turn lane. I noticed as I approached that her left brake light was out (I see a lot of burned-out rear lights in Hyundais for some reason). As we were exactly beside each other I tried to get her attention to roll down her passenger window so I could advise her of the light. Forget it. Her face was buried in her phone and she was texting/posting something and never looked up. But what qualifies her for this discussion (even though using a mobile device when behind the wheel is illegal here) is that when the light changed and the car in front of her moved forward, so did she - without visibly looking up from her phone. She kept texting head down while driving. Good way to run into someone or run some pedestrian over

Minutes later I was home in my driveway, taking my groceries out of the trunk, when I heard loud engine noises coming my way. I looked up in time to see a small comapct of some sort, likely a Civic or a Mazda 3 , blow through the stop sign at what had to be 50mph. I mean he was really moving. Right on his bumper was a loud pickup of some sort, maybe a Chevy but not sure because it was moving so fast, also ignoring the sign. Keep in mind this is on a quiet 30mph limit residential street. They disappeared out of sight but not out of earshot, and it sounded like both were accelerating. I wanted to beat some sense into both of them. Very dangerous behavior.

xwesx · January 2019

kyfdx said:

Physics are different in Alaska...

That they are, but what does Alaska have to do with this?!

xwesx · January 2019

ab348 said:
Yesterday I pulled up to a 2-lane stoplight. I was in the straight-ahead lane and was next to a young lady in a Veloster in the left turn lane. I noticed as I approached that her left brake light was out (I see a lot of burned-out rear lights in Hyundais for some reason). As we were exactly beside each other I tried to get her attention to roll down her passenger window so I could advise her of the light. Forget it. Her face was buried in her phone and she was texting/posting something and never looked up. But what qualifies her for this discussion (even though using a mobile device when behind the wheel is illegal here) is that when the light changed and the car in front of her moved forward, so did she - without visibly looking up from her phone. She kept texting head down while driving. Good way to run into someone or run some pedestrian over

Minutes later I was home in my driveway, taking my groceries out of the trunk, when I heard loud engine noises coming my way. I looked up in time to see a small comapct of some sort, likely a Civic or a Mazda 3 , blow through the stop sign at what had to be 50mph. I mean he was really moving. Right on his bumper was a loud pickup of some sort, maybe a Chevy but not sure because it was moving so fast, also ignoring the sign. Keep in mind this is on a quiet 30mph limit residential street. They disappeared out of sight but not out of earshot, and it sounded like both were accelerating. I wanted to beat some sense into both of them. Very dangerous behavior.

Craziness! ... on both counts, but definitely a road rage scenario with the two that blew the sign. it may have been worthwhile to call that one in to authorities, just so they could be on the lookout if in the general vicinity. Stuff like that is when people die - 1, 50, or 100, to put it in @ruking1 terms!

I see people doing that texting crap all the time, and I lay on my horn every time I see it. I love how it startles them. LOL

fintail · January 2019

No drivers of note other than the typical plodding timid souls who infest the roads here, but I think the all-knowing authorities doused some roads with de-icer again last night, as I had a crappy film on the windshield when driving in the damp this morning. It was almost 40F. Someone's brother in law must own a chemical company.

fintail · January 2019

This is both very believable and also hard to believe - from my experiences, OR is no better for driving than WA.

xwesx · January 2019

fintail said:
This is both very believable and also hard to believe - from my experiences, OR is no better for driving than WA.

Interesting. I must be quite backwards, because I find the best driving states to be those with relatively low population: Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, and I might even throw Alaska in there despite our frost-heaving tendencies. Oregon and even Washington are both rather pleasant driving as long as you're east of the Cascades.

ruking1 · January 2019

fintail said:
This is both very believable and also hard to believe - from my experiences, OR is no better for driving than WA.

Yes, well put. I’ve had a pretty wide range of experiences in the lower 48 states & HI, CN, Mexico. I’ve always had the attitude; “when in Rome do as the Romans do”, so that may have really colored the driving perspective in general: bad/med/good. For some reason, I’ve always look forward to driving in any states major cities, as well as other roads.

fintail · January 2019

Exactly, OR and WA are pretty much the same to me, all dependent on where you are relative to the mountains. Eastern WA and OR are great road trip areas, with relatively sparse traffic, and scenery that relaxes me.

xwesx said:

Interesting. I must be quite backwards, because I find the best driving states to be those with relatively low population: Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, and I might even throw Alaska in there despite our frost-heaving tendencies. Oregon and even Washington are both rather pleasant driving as long as you're east of the Cascades.

fintail · January 2019

On my trip a couple months ago, I drove for a day in Chicago, that was enough to get me on the L. I had no choice but to drive most of the time in Detroit, also no fun.

I like visiting major cities with first world infrastructure to sample their light rail systems, Backroads are good for driving.

ruking1 said:

Yes, well put. I’ve had a pretty wide range of experiences in the lower 48 states & HI, CN, Mexico. I’ve always had the attitude; “when in Rome do as the Romans do”, so that may have really colored the driving perspective in general: bad/med/good. For some reason, I’ve always look forward to driving in any states major cities, as well as other roads.

andres3 · January 2019

tjc78 said:
@ruking1
I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say.

@andres3 said he felt that driving slower is less safe than driving faster.

I simply don’t agree with that statement

I never mentioned anything about percentages or that more fatalities occur under the speed limit.

Would you at least agree that depending on the situation and circumstances, slower could be less safe, and vice versa, faster could be less safe.

The argument comes down to which more often holds true in the real world given all conditions and factors.

I believe the data is crystal clear, speed limits under the 85th percentile KILL and MAIM people! The blood is on the hands of law makers and law enforcement that goes along with these shenanigans for the sole purpose of revenue generation (or some misguided and ignorant views on what is safe).

andres3 · January 2019

tjc78 said:

andres3 said:

People in the past have scoffed when I mention driving slower is less safe because you increase your time-exposure to random hazards.

I've found an analogy.

Is it harder to hit a 100 MPH fastball, or a 50 MPH fastball? One is used for blasting homeruns during batting practice or homerun derby, while the other belonged to strikeout king pitchers like Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens.

When I drive slow, I feel like a 50 MPH fastball, and all the bad drivers out there are targeting me. Be the 100 MPH fastball, make yourself hard to hit.

Were you hit with a fastball or just don’t remember high school physics?

Speed limits are usually under posted, but to think driving at 100 MPH is safer than 50 under the same conditions is just flat out nuts.

That's just it.... you can't have the "same conditions" at 50 or 100. People will drive at or around the 85th percentile speed regardless of the speed limit (or absence of one on the Autobahn), unless you have a cop on every block. Driving 50 MPH in the left lane of the Autobahn will likely get you killed faster than going 100 MPH in the same lane same conditions. It depends what those conditions are. We live in the real world. We interact with other humans and drivers.

Besides, I wasn't advocating that everyone drive 100 MPH, just using that as an example using the baseball analogy for why going faster can and is safe (up to a limit; see SOLOMON curve).

Physics..... Going faster lengthens your stopping distance and your ability to swerve around an object (increases distance traveled for reaction times). OK. No arguing that. However, the argument FAILS when you look at collision causation. How many people have told you "man, if only I was going 5 or 10 MPH slower, I could have stopped in time?" No one has told me that. I bet no one has told you that either. Accidents are not caused by stopping power (or lack thereof). Usually rear-end collisions are caused my simple lack of hitting the brakes at all (negating physics), or hitting them way too late (due to distraction). Could going slower reduce the collision power from accidents caused by distraction? Yes. However, I choose to focus on the cause, and eliminate the cause (distraction). Without allowing distraction while you are driving, you can make those risks of going faster become minuscule in comparison to other factors, like idiot drivers.

ruking1 · January 2019

That is why NON/appropriate speed/s was/were used. On the normal daily commute, we’ve gone anywhere from 15 mph to 80 mph. Situationally, 15 mph might’ve been too fast, aka accident. 80 miles an hour might’ve been too slow, vice versa & in other combinations.

The PIN (person in DEnial) use s/d non sequitur argument/s, as if preparing for the first grade school rehearsal debate. Yet, it’s inexplicable the PIN is in practice, that naïve!

Now I’m OK with the fact that that may be ones’ opinion; that one may think it good for other people, but not for one.

But as mentioned, the data is really quite clear. The government safety agencies have bemoaned the fact/myth that speed kills. Yet on the other hand, they can’t easily lie about the data. They will say that (non appropriate) speed is a dominate factor in about 20% - of fatalities/accidents. What they do leave OUT is that the 80% + better fatalities/accident are in compliance @ posted speed limits or below.

Yet again data can be muddled. So for example, it is widely known that alcohol is involved in 40% of accidents fatalities. So (inappropriate) speed ( & other factors) can easily fall under the category of DWI. If modifying variables are really the cause, the 20% inappropriate speed can really be LESS; up to only 12%.

Again, this is probably true in most major cities, but, in the LA metropolitan area: which is a HUGE bunch of real estate, the speed limit used to be 55 mph during the Nixon era. Naturally doom and gloom was forecasted if the speed limit EVER got to 60 miles an hour. So fast forward to 2019 and the speed limit of 65 mph with more normal speed is 75 to 85 mph the roads are SAFER than ever.

PF_Flyer · January 2019

Not sure what is in the water around here, but SOMETHING is making drivers (and I use the term loosely) consider red lights to just be suggestions. And I can't just throw the "cell phone blanket" over them either. Most of the time it's just, "I want to turn/cross at the intersection, here I come".

Being on high alert is tiring :@

ruking1 · January 2019

The cops teams could have informal pizza winning contests!. Competition with various members of SWAT teams happen all the time.

Municipalities: city, county, unincorporated, state, federal, etc., can form multiple task forces to increase revenues ($250 to $500) apprehending the scofflaws. 3 to 5 officers can make a field day. One officer can be the observer/accusing officer. 2/4 (motorcycles best) officers can be catching cars in either/4 direction/s.
https://www.ebtrialattorneys.com/penalties-running-red-light-california/

If one doesn’t have anything to do, it would be fun to watch. Form a go fund to pay for the cops prizes.😎

Inconsiderate Drivers II (share your stories, etc.)

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