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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • berriberri Posts: 10,140
    Urbanization can reduce car demand. But as the younger professionals have kids they may migrate back out to the suburbs reversing that. Relatively cheap airfares, combined with over saturated Interstates may lead to less desire for long distance driving down the road I suppose.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,344
    living in a center city where there is real public transit (NYC, Boston, Philly, Chicago), sure, no need to own a car. But I still think being able to drive, and having a license, is a basic life skill.. But, I could be biased.

    Moving out to the suburbs, well, I can't imagine doing that without owning a car. Certainly not having kids.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    There does seem to be a mass migration into larger cities, at least for younger people.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,246
    My son still wants a car, but he really only uses it on weekends. He can walk to work or take the train- and his employer pays for train fare.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,744
    Locally, most of the kids who went away to school have stayed away.
    Owning a car in many cities is cost prohibitive, not just to younger people.
    That being said, outside of those huge metropolis areas, kids still want to own a car or truck.
    I have 2 kids, one will only drive a CUV/SUV. The other bought a sedan as their first new car.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934

    Backy,
    An AWD Fusion is rated @28 mpg highway, so the average isn't bad considering the cold weather.
    There is no CX-7 rated anywhere near 30 MPG highway.
    As far as the hidden wipers go, that design has been around since the 70's.
    You could have just started the car, put on max defrost, let it warm up for a few minutes, and most of your ice problem would have been gone. ;)

    Uh... I did that. It was a thick coat of ice. It helped loosen it on the rear window though.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    I forgot to post about my experience with a 2018 Altima rental over the holidays. Drove it for 9 days from MN to/from TX, 2900 miles total. Most of the time there were 4 to 5 adults and a full trunk, but it still averaged 38.7 mpg for the trip which I was very happy with. Also was happy with gas prices--a low of $1.75 in Oklahoma City, but always under $2. This was the old Altima but it's a good highway cruiser. The "space foam" (or whatever they call it) seats were very comfortable even when driving 9-10 hours in a day.

    I called Hertz a day before pickup and asked specifically for a Sonata, Optima, Altima, or Camry, as they have all of those in their fleet. They said they'd get one for me. Then I get an email that my Jeep Compass is ready! I called them and they said they thought they'd "upgrade" me. Sorry, a Compass is NOT an upgrade. I told them I rented a full-sized car for a reason (actually multiple reasons). They said they'd see what they could do. Fortunately the Altima had just come in and had been serviced when I got there.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,744
    @backy,
    If you look at any of the other popular midsize sedans, the front wipers are buried even more than the Fusion.
    I was very happy the my stop/start worked today.
    It hadn't activated in a couple of months, but I took an 80 mile or so round trip yesterday and it stopped the engine at most stops today.
    Usually it doesn't activate in cooler weather until I drive the car 3 days in a row, average about 30 miles a day.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Well, I'm officially leaving the realm of mid-sized sedan owners. (From the looks of it here, a lot of other people have left that realm also!) The 2008 Mazda6 that my daughter has used during college is going on the block soon, to be replaced by a 2011 Sentra SL that she's buying with her first car loan (first loan of any kind). I'm selling the M6 and will apply the proceeds to her new car (she would have gotten the title after graduation in May anyway).
    We figured with the M6 still in very good condition but starting to show signs of rust and with 160k miles, it was time to get something newer and lower miles (the Sentra has 68k). Plus my daughter would really like Bluetooth and a USB port, and the Sentra has those plus a lot of other goodies (Rockford Fosgate stereo, nav, keyless start, moonroof etc.).
    I leased a 2010 Sentra S (same color!) for 3 years and it was a good car for me. Pickup isn't the greatest with the CVT, but she doesn't need to race around anyway. :) She likes how the Sentra drives.
    I'm getting the car detailed next week (hard to do it myself in the winter), then put it on the market. If anyone in the Twin Cities wants a nice 2008 Mazda6i VE, let me know. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,744
    edited March 9
    Someone reputable will let you take a loan on a 2011 Sentra? OK.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,246

    Someone reputable will let you take a loan on a 2011 Sentra? OK.

    Yeah, this guy said no problem!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934

    Someone reputable will let you take a loan on a 2011 Sentra? OK.

    Yes. A bank that's been around for decades--used to be IBM's credit union, now it's a bank. I've done many car loans with them over the years because they offer great rates and service. This loan was for five years, 3.39% interest, payment about $72--fits my daughter's budget. I had to co-sign because she has little credit history.

    Anyway, the car is worth at least $6000 for a private party sale and the loan is only for $4000, so low risk for them especially since they know I'm a long-time customer with an excellent credit history.

    In fact, I'd say it's lower risk than loaning $30k to someone to buy an "average" new car that will depreciate like a rock, with a payment over $500 and not much in the way of assets, job history, or credit history--and "reputable" lenders do that all the time, right?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,344
    $72/month car loan? It's 1965 again! Hopefully she does well and can add extra to the payments. won't take much of that to have it paid off in 2-3 years.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Car & Driver's current issue has 25 vehicles worth waiting for. Among the Ferraris and other high-priced wheels is the 2020 Sonata. I don't know how many people are longing for a mid-sized car these days, but that Sonata sure looks a lot better than the current car. Maybe I'll get to drive it as a rental. Also I'd like to try out the new Altima, which is getting some good reviews. There's quite a few Altimas in rental fleets so I should be able to snag one of those in the near future.

    Aside from the 2020 Sonata, what else will be new in this field? There's a refreshed (but not all-new) Passat coming soon (saw it at the auto show in March, looks better than the current car but same underpinnings). Also the Legacy is redesigned for 2020. Since the Sonata has been redone there will probably a new Optima soon, and maybe a new Mazda6 since the current car debuted for MY 2014 which makes it I think the oldest design in the class. So quite a bit of action in this field over the next several months--think anyone will notice? ;)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,344
    I saw that one. I'll check one out when they arrive. Might have been a contender when I was shopping last year.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,850
    I haven’t seen any recent sales figures of mid size cars. Is the trend still downward or has it stabilized? Locally I am seeing more new model Accords than Camrys. I think I’ve only seen a couple of new model Altimas. New CR-Vs, RAV 4s, Rogues, Tiguans, they are multiplying like guppies.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,744
    All I knew to find quickly is Fusion 14,850.
    Go to autospies.com for a bunch of the other brands.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    The last 3 rentals I got were Malibu, Camry, and Malibu. Camry was smooth and quiet, but the interior not to my taste--materials seemed cheap for one thing. Not a fan of the exterior design either, although in LE trim it wasn't too bad. The Malibus were smooth and quiet also, and I liked the exterior and interior styling better. Not a bad car at all. The Malibus had the auto-stop which I think I'd find annoying if I did a lot of rush-hour traffic, but I suppose it will save some gas.

    I read a review of the new Corolla. Like other "compacts" it's grown in size to what mid-sizers were a few years ago. The new Mazda3 is bigger also, as are the new Forte and Jetta. That could be one reason sales of mid-sized cars is slipping--people who want a sedan can get a "compact" that offers plenty of room for most people but easier to park and maybe more fun to drive.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Got to rent a brand-new Altima on a recent trip to San Diego. I like it much better than the Camry and Malibu. I prefer the Altima's dash layout and controls, it's very economical (averaged just under 40 mpg over 3 days), it doesn't have the auto-stop that the Malibu has, and it drives like a smaller car than it is--which is a good thing. I mean that it feels more nimble than the Camry and Malibu.

    I also read some reviews of the 2020 Sonata. If it drives as well as it looks, it could be the top of the mid-sized sedan class when it debuts. Who knows, with gas inching up (I saw it for nearly $5 a gallon for premium while in San Diego) an economical sedan could win back folks who bought a truck or SUV but don't really need it.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,563
    andres3 said:

    stickguy said:

    hopefully they keep at least 1 smaller/midsize sedan. Make the Focus a little bigger, and split the difference?

    ISN'T THAT WHAT ACURA DID? combining the TL and TSX to make the TLX. I don't think they are setting the world on fire with that strategy. I'm not sure who is buying the RLX.
    I haven't been sure about Acura's their marketing for years. How about a new Integra???, instead of the VERY Civic looking ILX, Which basically IS a Luxed/Up Honda Civic. I would buy the better looking (IMO) Civic Sport, or the Si, which are on the low end price wise, and the Si with the wing looks like Darth Vader's earth vehicle. Is Honda withholding the Integra nameplate for some reason? My girlfriend had a 94, loaded with wing and Stock with premium sound and tinted windows. Compared to my car,it really was like the commercial where it was a rollercoaster ride. She loved driving my brute-force '87 Z24 with my newly installed 3.1 liter V6 with 190 HP in my mechanics tune, and a Getrag 5 speed manual. Considering the 87 Cavalier Z24 weighed very little, it would spin through third gear with my 225/60/14!!! Falken tires and racing clutch due to my insatiable urge to drive fast.Ok, back to the subject...
    The Lexus sells wayyy more volume due to the ES350, and the RLX mostly. I have to say that the Lexus lineup is looking good, if not derivative of the same design they have been making for years. My favorite was always the IS350, with a zero to 60 in 4.8 to 5.1 seconds, depending on the car and the aggressiveness of the driver. However, the ES350, stock....did zero to 60 in 5.8 to 6.2 (depending on which mag and reviewer).

    Anyway, I still have my 2012 Kia Optima EX. It has a new engine, new struts,tires...all under warranty (and new brake pads that I paid $20 to install.

    I also replaced the rear tint, now at 20% due to bubbling on the rear with the rear defroster being the culprit for causing bubbles in the tint. It got so bad I could barely see out of it. There was a Maaco shop next door at the Springfield, VA Fullerton Rd. location, and I had some pretty bad front end trim where the clear coat came off, etc. They took care of ALL of it....and it was a good bit of work, for $100. It no, after 7 years, makes it look brand new.
    Sorry I dont post much-Chris

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,850
    cski said:

    andres3 said:

    stickguy said:

    hopefully they keep at least 1 smaller/midsize sedan. Make the Focus a little bigger, and split the difference?

    ISN'T THAT WHAT ACURA DID? combining the TL and TSX to make the TLX. I don't think they are setting the world on fire with that strategy. I'm not sure who is buying the RLX.
    I haven't been sure about Acura's their marketing for years. How about a new Integra???, instead of the VERY Civic looking ILX, Which basically IS a Luxed/Up Honda Civic. I would buy the better looking (IMO) Civic Sport, or the Si, which are on the low end price wise, and the Si with the wing looks like Darth Vader's earth vehicle. Is Honda withholding the Integra nameplate for some reason? My girlfriend had a 94, loaded with wing and Stock with premium sound and tinted windows. Compared to my car,it really was like the commercial where it was a rollercoaster ride. She loved driving my brute-force '87 Z24 with my newly installed 3.1 liter V6 with 190 HP in my mechanics tune, and a Getrag 5 speed manual. Considering the 87 Cavalier Z24 weighed very little, it would spin through third gear with my 225/60/14!!! Falken tires and racing clutch due to my insatiable urge to drive fast.Ok, back to the subject...
    The Lexus sells wayyy more volume due to the ES350, and the RLX mostly. I have to say that the Lexus lineup is looking good, if not derivative of the same design they have been making for years. My favorite was always the IS350, with a zero to 60 in 4.8 to 5.1 seconds, depending on the car and the aggressiveness of the driver. However, the ES350, stock....did zero to 60 in 5.8 to 6.2 (depending on which mag and reviewer).

    Anyway, I still have my 2012 Kia Optima EX. It has a new engine, new struts,tires...all under warranty (and new brake pads that I paid $20 to install.

    I also replaced the rear tint, now at 20% due to bubbling on the rear with the rear defroster being the culprit for causing bubbles in the tint. It got so bad I could barely see out of it. There was a Maaco shop next door at the Springfield, VA Fullerton Rd. location, and I had some pretty bad front end trim where the clear coat came off, etc. They took care of ALL of it....and it was a good bit of work, for $100. It no, after 7 years, makes it look brand new.
    Sorry I dont post much-Chris
    Was the engine replaced because of the manufacturing issue that was discovered where metal shavings in the engine would eventually cause the engine to fail, or was it a different issue? How many miles on it when it was replaced?

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,563

    The only Ford I've actually considered owning is a Mustang GT with the Performance Package- so the death of Ford's other cars is a non-issue for me.
    Well, I could see having a Fiesta ST for a work beater, but that's it...

    I hope you don't need the backseat's for, um, people. Not even an inch available for legs...which most folk have, last time I checked. LOL.

    I have wanted a Mustang GT 5.0 FOREVER, but having my three kids safely and comfortably seated has always come first, and killed buying it...until very soon. They are all over 14, so I really don't need the back seat pretty soon, as my girls go their own way. They are 14, 16, and 18.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,384
    @cski

    It has a new engine

    You need to go into further detail. Did you experience any symptoms?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,563
    benjaminh said:

    The most luxurious car I ever owned was a 1988 Oldsmobile 98, which we bought when it was ten years old. It was pretty much a one-owner car (the original owner had passed it on to his daughter, who was in med school) and it was in very good condition. Outside it looked a lot like this one below, while inside it looked like the image below too—except in blue. Yes, it was the Cadillac of Oldsmobiles, and really close to that in terms of luxury. The fabrics for those couch-like seats were actually as soft and comfortable as they looked. I'm ashamed to say it, but I actually liked touching that upholstery. For the 1985 model year, the Olds 98 was massively downsized on the outside, and lost c.900 lbs of weight, but interior room was similar to the barge-like 1984 model. My 1988 Olds 98 was still a big car, especially compared to a 1988 Accord. But now that my wife and I are considering maybe someday getting a 2018 Honda Accord Hybrid, which seems kinda big, I realized with a shock that in fact it's about the same size as a 1988 Olds 98....




    Hey Ben, these cars were everywhere back in the day. My wifes Best Friend had the 89 Buick Electra, with the standard 3.8 liter V6, transverse front drive. It had the red "Rich Corinthian Vinyl" interior. The only problem with some of those cars were the ceramic timing chain sprocket, and therefore timing chain failure.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 8,862
    ceramic timing chain sprocket

    GM wasn't the only one who failed with those. Ford had them on the late 70's - mid 80's 302.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra (for a little longer) / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • tonyg2016tonyg2016 midwest, usaPosts: 711


    Was the engine replaced because of the manufacturing issue that was discovered where metal shavings in the engine would eventually cause the engine to fail, or was it a different issue? How many miles on it when it was replaced?

    engine failures on 2011-2014 sonatas and optimas are well documented except for the root cause. Initial cover story was the BS "metal shavings" scenario which was supposedly corrected in mid 2012. Engine recall extends all the way to 2014 with an increase in the warranty to 120k miles (Sonata) and unlimited miles (optima).

    The newer version (2015-2018) are also affected but to a lesser extent. They have updated PCM software to detect engine knocking and put the car into "limp mode" before a major failure happens (at an inopportune time)

    https://www.hyundai-forums.com/yf-2011-2014-sonata-i45/

    To their credit, they have been replacing engines that are over the 120k miles, but that is because of the NHTSA and the class action lawsuits. Kia has been treating their customers much better than hyundai.

    I own a 2011 Sonata GLS with low miles (47k) and am hoping i don't win the engine lottery; but even well-maintained engines are failing.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,513
    Engine failure? That seems very strange these days.

    But it makes me glad I own an Acura.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,513
    cski said:

    ....Anyway, I still have my 2012 Kia Optima EX. It has a new engine, new struts,tires...all under warranty....

    Welcome back!

    Thank goodness for your warranty. What a headache.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,246
    cski said:

    The only Ford I've actually considered owning is a Mustang GT with the Performance Package- so the death of Ford's other cars is a non-issue for me.
    Well, I could see having a Fiesta ST for a work beater, but that's it...

    I hope you don't need the backseat's for, um, people. Not even an inch available for legs...which most folk have, last time I checked. LOL.

    I have wanted a Mustang GT 5.0 FOREVER, but having my three kids safely and comfortably seated has always come first, and killed buying it...until very soon. They are all over 14, so I really don't need the back seat pretty soon, as my girls go their own way. They are 14, 16, and 18.
    We chose to have one child- kept us out of Minivan Purgatory and also let me own cars with only "occasional" rear seats.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,563
    edited August 10
    benjaminh said:

    Engine failure? That seems very strange these days.

    But it makes me glad I own an Acura.

    Hey Ben, It turns out that my "bad strut is making that noise" on a ride along with an "Experienced tech".
    It was replaced, and did restore part of the ride, but the klunk klunk klank klunk noize over rough pavement, potholes, undulations..was the SWAY BAR END LINKS!!!!! Both front end links were thoroughly shot, and I had to research it myself and found it was a VERY well known issue, the parts are $30 a pair on ebay auto, and any shade tree mechanic can do it. Now, finally, after a year of disgust, my car is running PERFECTLY. It should be easy. The ODO only has 68,750 now, at 7 years old. Oh, the extended warranty paid for itself after the struts ($800) and the end links (astonishingly expensive $730) I am $320 ahead. Plus with no deductible! that was a good move at the time of purchase. To acknowledge other posts..I have no idea what really killed my engine, but I am glad it was replaced for free, and Kia owned up to it.
    BTW, I had a rental for an astonishing 4.5 MONTHS. I got the same one last time. Enterprise rep asked me "do you want your Altima back"? Answer Really? for keeps? Yes! Absolutely. I have made a terrible car buying mistake!!! Can we trade?
    He said: "no".

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

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