Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

I think for most people doing what most people do all day in a car, paddle shifters are just a bit silly.

Michaell · April 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think for most people doing what most people do all day in a car, paddle shifters are just a bit silly.

Our Outback has paddles for the CVT. I've probably used them just a handful of times, mainly just to play around with them.

But, here in CO, it's nice to use them to downshift on slippery roads when you're going downhill and want to avoid the brakes.

ab348 · April 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think for most people doing what most people do all day in a car, paddle shifters are just a bit silly.

They are, but they are a fun diversion sometimes. I've played with them on the ATS and it makes no sense to use them in normal driving. I suppose if you tracked it, that would be a different story.

qbrozen · April 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think for most people doing what most people do all day in a car, paddle shifters are just a bit silly.

Buuuuttt... the same can be said of a manual transmission. The only difference is that you are FORCED to be a bit silly with the manual.

henryn · April 2019

I will mention one thing I like -- Ford, in their pickups (don't know about the cars?) has a "gear indicator" on the dash. With 6 and 10 speed automatic transmissions, it's interesting to see what gear the computer has picked for you under what circumstances, and how far it drops when you lower the hammer.

It really doesn't matter, all that matters is how well the vehicle responds, but I still find it interesting.

kyfdx · April 2019

Paddles. Get a new car with paddles.. play around with them for the first week. Then, never touch them again. (my experience)

stickguy · April 2019

that is what I do. Just try them once or twice. Still need to figure out the TLX. Not sure how to switch that to manual mode.

Michaell · April 2019

stickguy said:
that is what I do. Just try them once or twice. Still need to figure out the TLX. Not sure how to switch that to manual mode.

In the Outback you don't have to touch the gear lever. Just paddle to downshift, then after a while, the computer figures out to return the car to D

stickguy · April 2019

So far that’s all I have done with it. So maybe that’s all it does!

Michaell · April 2019

stickguy said:
So far that’s all I have done with it. So maybe that’s all it does!

The Outback does have a manual slot for the gear lever, so you have complete control over the transmission.

stickguy · April 2019

I don’t think the TLX even has that. I should dig out the manual and look it up.

kyfdx · April 2019

stickguy said:
I don’t think the TLX even has that. I should dig out the manual and look it up.

Your shifter doesn't have a gate to the side, so you can manually do the paddle thing, but with the shift lever?

Michaell · April 2019

stickguy said:
I don’t think the TLX even has that. I should dig out the manual and look it up.

Just like I should dig up the manual for the Outback and figure out how to set up the memory seats, since the wife and I will be sharing it soon.

stickguy · April 2019

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:
I don’t think the TLX even has that. I should dig out the manual and look it up.
Your shifter doesn't have a gate to the side, so you can manually do the paddle thing, but with the shift lever?

Nope. Unless they hid it!

kyfdx · April 2019

stickguy said:

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:
I don’t think the TLX even has that. I should dig out the manual and look it up.
Your shifter doesn't have a gate to the side, so you can manually do the paddle thing, but with the shift lever?
Nope. Unless they hid it!

No "Sport" mode? If you have that, it usually makes the paddles behave differently.

stickguy · April 2019

There’s some sort of drive mode selector. I don’t bother with it.

kyfdx · April 2019

stickguy said:
There’s some sort of drive mode selector. I don’t bother with it.

On cars that I've had, when you are in Sport, it will hold the gear, and not revert to drive. Although different vehicles have different methods to handle "out of range" issues. Older cars would bounce off the rev limiter, holding the gear, while others would automatically upshift at red-line.

Almost all of them will act like a regular automatic, if you go too slow for the gear.

pensfan83 · April 2019

Putting the TLX into Sport+ mode requires you to use the paddles. I personally have only used them a handful of times. For most of the driving I do around town I don't see the point.

ksoman · April 2019

qbrozen said:
Paddles are no longer slower. Well, not all. The ZF trannies are instantaneous, as are the PDK. And, yes, this is all about getting around faster. If I just want the feel of a car, then I’ll get an old 110hp miata with manual steering and manual brakes.

Exactly. Not sure which 20th-century paddles you guys are complaining about

I find shifting with paddles on a auto-manual way more fun because they are right there, where both my hands are while i'm twisting around twists.

ksoman · April 2019

kyfdx said:
Paddles. Get a new car with paddles.. play around with them for the first week. Then, never touch them again. (my experience)

3 years into my paddle-car, I was still paddling... haha

qbrozen · April 2019

Used them all the time in my 135, CTS, and Stelvio. Almost never in my 330. Just the type
of driving I do now I guess. I’m more about fuel economy lately.

andres3 · April 2019

If' I had paddle shifters that didn't shift immediately, I'd throw the car off a cliff. Thankfully, I don't buy CVT paddle-shifted cars.

Audi mastered the dual clutch as of 2006.... with the '06 A3. 106,000 miles on that puppy before I sold it, and the next owner took it to over 150K miles.

andres3 · April 2019

stickguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
They are faster than a human can operate a clutch---no argument from me there!

The point is--are you driving or are you steering?
might be relevant if you are driving flat out on a track. In normal driving, even the rare spirited back road type, I bet most people (including me) don't push the envelope to that extreme, so the fraction of a second difference is meaningless. But the tactile experience and sense of control isn't. ATs are IMO much more likely to spend time trying to hold a much too high gear, or hunting around for the right one, than they are to be snapping off powershifts at the redline.

They are more relaxing in stop and go traffic though. Not that lightning quick gear changes matter much in that use!

Lighting quick gear changes probably help contribute to the superior fuel economy though.

henryn · April 2019

andres3 said:
If' I had paddle shifters that didn't shift immediately, I'd throw the car off a cliff. Thankfully, I don't buy CVT paddle-shifted cars.

Audi mastered the dual clutch as of 2006.... with the '06 A3. 106,000 miles on that puppy before I sold it, and the next owner took it to over 150K miles.

Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. And even if none of them blew up, that still wouldn't mean they had "mastered the dual clutch". If the driving experience was not what most of the owners wanted or expected, then you couldn't really say "mastered".

andres3 · April 2019

henryn said:

andres3 said:
If' I had paddle shifters that didn't shift immediately, I'd throw the car off a cliff. Thankfully, I don't buy CVT paddle-shifted cars.

Audi mastered the dual clutch as of 2006.... with the '06 A3. 106,000 miles on that puppy before I sold it, and the next owner took it to over 150K miles.
Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. And even if none of them blew up, that still wouldn't mean they had "mastered the dual clutch". If the driving experience was not what most of the owners wanted or expected, then you couldn't really say "mastered".

Well, I think the "satisfaction" rating for A3 owners was VERY high. Also, there's a lot of high-mile A3's running around, so they must have done something right.

I would say reviews were "mixed" on the DSG, but a well-trained and calibrated DSG worked wonders in my opinion. Yes, the transmissions were trainable,and had a "learning" computer "brain." It's important to note they work like a manual, not like an automatic. I personally like the mechanical feel, whereas some people call it a "lurch" upon stopping.

benjaminh · June 2019

For 2020 there is going to be a special hand-built TLX with special paint from the NSX. Only 360 will be built. Honda guy Jason has the details and a tour....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aB1tbQSUuk

tjc78 · June 2019

Awesome

benjaminh · June 2019

That limited edition hand-built TLX seems like a strange duck. My guess is that slow sales of the NSX mean that their elite team of people building those supercars have some time on their hands? And so why not make a rare TLX for the heck of it? But TLX sales, along with most other sedans, are on the weak side at the moment. Could be one of these special vehicles might be had at a big discount at some point. With only 360 being made that's less than 1 vehicles per Acura dealer, isn't it?

sda · June 2019

Good to hear from you benjaminh

benjaminh · June 2019

Acura's entry-level ILX has had two major refreshes since it was introduced in 2013, but obviously that was a very long time ago. But compared to 2013 Acura added a lot of standard equipment (larger 2.4 engine standard, AcuraWatch, etc.) while cutting the price by a couple of thousand dollars. The bottom line is that you can get an Acura ILX starting at c. $27k compared to c. $10-15k or so more for the admittedly more prestigious entry-level luxury cars elsewhere. This guy Tyson Hugie got one of the first of the new 2013 ILXs, which he still has and which now has over 200,000 miles, and he does a short comparison with the 2019 ILX, which overall he likes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_AMPws3Fv0

benjaminh · June 2019

Tyson Hugie is obviously very careful with his Acuras, but here's his summary of his maintenance costs after owning his 2013 ILX 7 years....

"The car has cost me $7,600 to maintain over the course of 215,000 miles. That includes 29 oil changes, 8 air filters, 2 sets of rear brake pads, 2 transmission fluid changes, and 4 sets of tires."

https://drivetofive.com/2019/06/26/platinum-white-pearlescence-2019-acura-ilx-a-spec-review/

That sounds pretty good to me.

stickguy · June 2019

that ILX was also the 2.4 engine with the manual trans. Not the normal 2.0t automatic.

benjaminh · June 2019

Yeah. Our TLX 2.4s are very similar to the one he has in that 2013 ILX. He doesn't mention spark plugs or a tune-up, but surely he's changed those after 215k miles?

benjaminh · July 2019

"Ben Says:
June 30, 2019 at 7:27 pm
For your 2013 ILX how many times have you changed the spark plugs after 215k miles?

Reply
tysonhugie Says:
June 30, 2019 at 8:45 pm
They’ve never been changed!"

Hmmm. So I guess Acura's platinum-tipped spark plugs with the 2.4 can last and last.....Although I don't think his engine is direct injected, which is the biggest change since 2013 with the 2.4 v-tech.

tjc78 · July 2019

Wow, 200K on the original plugs? That's impressive, IMO.

I think at this point I'd be replacing them. That can't be a hard job on that car.

stickguy · July 2019

Is the current 2.4 in the TLX a DI engine? I didn’t think it was. But, since I have one, I probably should know!

benjaminh · July 2019

Entry Level Luxury sales for June....
compact:

Aclass 2,015

ILX 1,312 +47.1%

A3 831 -58%

CLA 573 -72.6%

2series 473 -18.4%

midsize:

3series 4,927 +38.7%

ES 4,350 +25.8%

Cclass 3,951 -31.2%

A4 2,292 -41%

Q50 2,042 -22.4%

TLX 1,812 -17.8%

G70 1,193

IS 1,560 -19.7%

Giulia 768 -22%

benjaminh · July 2019

stickguy said:
Is the current 2.4 in the TLX a DI engine? I didn’t think it was. But, since I have one, I probably should know!

Yes, the TLX's 2.4 is direct injected....

https://acuranews.com/acura-automobiles/channels/tlx-press-kit/releases/2018-acura-tlx-press-kit-powertrain

2.4-Liter Engine i-VTEC® Valve Control System
The TLX's direct-injected 2.4-liter DOHC 16-valve i-VTEC® engine uses an advanced valve-control system to combine high power output with high fuel efficiency and low emissions. The system combines VTC (Variable Timing Control), which continuously adjusts the intake camshaft phase, with Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC), which changes valve lift, timing and duration of the intake valves.

At low rpm, the VTEC intake valve timing and lift are optimized for high torque and low fuel consumption. As engine rpm builds past 4,900 rpm, the VTEC system transitions to a high-lift, long-duration intake cam profile for superior high-rpm engine power.

The "intelligent" portion of the system is its ability to continuously vary the timing of the intake cam relative to that of the exhaust camshaft. This helps boost power and also provides a smoother idle (allowing idle speed to be reduced). The intake cam timing is varied based on input from sensors that monitor rpm, timing, throttle opening, cam position and exhaust air-fuel ratio. The result is increased fuel efficiency and lower NOx emissions.

benjaminh · August 2019

On a recent 103 mile highway trip from Cincinnati to Louisville my 2018 Acura TLX 2.4 got 39 mpg. This was mostly on the Interstate with speeds usually about c. 60-75 with the AC on. Pretty good mpg for a luxury car. The 20 mpg below that was for a short city stop and go drive.

roadburner · August 2019

Nice! My M235i averages around 32 mpg if I keep speeds between 75-80.

dino001 · August 2019

I don't get 39 on the highway, but my city is better than 20. I think it's about 24-25. My daily commute and weekend errands (about 25-50% freeway, 25-50% slowish freeway or stuck in traffic, 25% city streets) bounces between 29 and 30 mpg. Premium of course.

benjaminh · August 2019

My city is usually c. 25-30 or so. That particular stop and go was a very short drive of just a few miles with an uphill section in Cincinnati.

Michaell · August 2019

roadburner said:
Nice! My M235i averages around 32 mpg if I keep speeds between 75-80.

So, do you?

benjaminh · August 2019

Sales of ELL cars last month....

A-class 2,619
ILX 1,224 +34.4%
2series 662 +4.4%
CLA 609 -57.2%
A3 522 -74%

ES 4,960 +4.6%
C-class 3,449 -10.2%
3series 3,392 +6.5%
A4 2,579 -25%
Q50 1,895 -20.9%
TLX 1,761 -13.9%
IS 1,331 -38.2%
S60 1,081+31%

stickguy · August 2019

I really think more people should be buying the TLX.

benjaminh · August 2019

stickguy said:
I really think more people should be buying the TLX.

Agree. And so you like yours now?

The TLX is a really good car for the money. And for me the most impressive feature is maybe the standard 4-wheel steering, which is something that's optional on a Porsche that costs more than twice as much. The ELS stereo is also quite good.

On the other thread there's the quote for the Infiniti Q50 for $487 a month, and my guess is that for significantly less you could get a loaded V-6 TLX. With the incentives like they are now you can lease a TLX 2.4 for less than an Accord EXL.

stickguy · August 2019

yes, it is very nice. If you want something like this, in a larger size (by my standards) it is a really good option.

roadburner · August 2019

Michaell said:

roadburner said:
Nice! My M235i averages around 32 mpg if I keep speeds between 75-80.
So, do you?

I try, I really do...

Michaell · August 2019

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

roadburner said:
Nice! My M235i averages around 32 mpg if I keep speeds between 75-80.
So, do you?
I try, I really do...

You'd slow down if we put you into a 10 year old Camcord.

Unfortunately, you'd fall asleep and crash.

tjc78 · August 2019

On the other thread there's the quote for the Infiniti Q50 for $487 a month, and my guess is that for significantly less you could get a loaded V-6 TLX. With the incentives like they are now you can lease a TLX 2.4 for less than an Accord EXL.

That 487 is first pencil with zero negotiation ... I am sure that can be 410-425 with some haggling. In all reality for a not too savvy shopper it comes pretty close to the 1% rule and I'd bet many people would sign the deal.

I don't think you can go wrong with either the TLX or the Q50. The TLX is certainly roomier inside, but also FWD biased versus the Infiniti's RWD.

The Infiniti drove wonderfully and I feel I could get into some serious trouble with it. The 400HP version must be a total beast.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles