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Comments
The great fallacy of politics is that politicians think the obstacles current/future politicians face are the result of current/future failures rather than being a reflection of their own failure to act years ago.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Among the misconceptions in our industry, such as, "the dealer is the expert", there is the thought that poor pay and working conditions among independents tend to drive bodies out of the technician field. Well, the local BMW dealer just built an enormous 75 bay service department, and they are in a complete state of staffing disarray. One of my top technician's brother-in-law just gave his notice to that BMW dealer, in order to take a position at a forklift company as a repair technician. He also said that 5 of his fellow dealer techs gave their notice this week. Why would they be doing this, working in a brand-new, "state of the art" facility, for a prestigious German brand?? It's because DEALERS are the ones driving people out of our industry, grabbing every warm body out of the tech schools, and then shoving them into their service department meat grinder. If we independents can get to them before they burn out in disgust, we have the ability to show them that there is a future in this business, a future where you can buy a home, raise a family, take a vacation once a year, and even have some laughs and enjoy coming to work. It is incumbent on us as quality independents to broadcast this message far and wide.
"position at a forklift company as a repair technician" -- if that is with a medium to large company, with a standard 40 hour work week, paid holidays and sick leave, medical insurance, etc, etc, then he is undoubtedly much better off.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
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Since apparently techs are behind the 8 ball financially no matter what role they take, he should get a financial adviser to help him make the best life possible.
My mechanic is looking for a systems specialist and is willing to pay for training and all. Most techs he meets want to do mindless jobs all day long. So your tech just needs to find a shop that is hungry for the guy who wants to be challenged.
http://newsletter.motor.com/2019/20190508/!ID_GetReadyForGF-6MotorOil.html?fbclid=IwAR1nSPKZmsXGBPF3gIUj-w_Xz1F-pnWjU_TWkZu4C0DQzUoGigfSlpO0o_g
I can't help but think of all of the different vehicles that I have worked through with similar style complaints. In some of the cases it took a week or two to painstakingly work down to the source of the problem. Imagine having forty to sixty hours into something like that, and not get paid for the time. Techs like me lived that. I feel for the vehicle owners, but not for the dealers or the manufacturers.
Those Jeeps. Being able to prove the source of the issue wouldn't be difficult but if it is a software issue that would need someone else to deal with. If it is a hard part issue inside of a module that is going to be a real nightmare because they might have to totally redesign and manufacture new modules.
A judge telling a private business what they have to do and worse, mandating language that they must say. This is insane, but predictable nowadays, particularly in NY or LA.
They probably don’t have a shoe repair apprentice program, either.
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
It's a tremendously valuable skill set. However, it's not an end in itself anymore (e.g., making money by fixing electronics). It is a building block; a tool that allows one to create new things, diagnose concerns, etc.
https://www.autonews.com/dealers/nada-tackles-service-tech-shortage
SAN FRANCISCO — NADA Chairman and longtime dealer Charlie Gilchrist is determined to do something about the retail auto industry's shortage of service technicians.
After all, technicians are quitting or retiring far faster than training programs can provide replacements. Yet seats in automaker-sponsored training programs go empty.
"Our industry is experiencing a dangerous shortage of technicians," Gilchrist said in his Jan. 26 keynote speech at the National Automobile Dealers Association Show here, announcing what NADA calls its Workforce Initiative. "This is not a can we can afford to kick down the road."
The problem is not new. But NADA's approach reflects a twist: The NADA Foundation, which is more typically associated with charitable contributions and emergency relief from natural disasters, is leading the Workforce Initiative.
Sykora: Dealership is always on the lookout.
"The need is so great," said Annette Sykora, chairman of the NADA Foundation Board and a Ford dealer in Levelland, Texas. Sykora said that like other dealerships, her store is constantly on the lookout "everywhere" for new technicians.
"One of the best ways is to encourage kids to get into the industry," she told Automotive News.
The foundation is leading plans to promote careers in the retail auto industry and help would-be dealership technicians find training. The initiative supplements the recruiting efforts of individual brands, state dealer associations and technical schools, which historically have worked independent of each other.
Show of hands
According to NADA, U.S. technical colleges and training programs graduate approximately 37,000 service technicians annually, but that's not nearly enough. NADA says the retail auto industry needs roughly 76,000 new technicians every year to keep pace with jobs being created, plus retirements and replacements for technicians who leave the industry for other reasons.
The net result: The industry is experiencing an annual shortage of 39,000 trained technicians, said Gilchrist, who represents Detroit 3 brands plus Nissan, Volkswagen and Mitsubishi through his Gilchrist Automotive in Weatherford, Texas.
"If you could, would you hire a trained technician today?" Gilchrist asked his NADA Show audience. Hundreds and hundreds of hands went up, in an auditorium full of dealer principals, dealership managers and employees, family members and industry service providers.
Filling those empty seats in automaker training programs is an immediate goal of the new NADA program. It includes an interactive map on nadafoundation.org, where would-be trainees can find all automaker training programs in one place. The site also allows prospective technicians to search for jobs, scholarship opportunities or other information about careers in the industry.
"Toyota is only interested in where the Toyota centers are. Ford is only interested in where the Ford centers are. Chrysler is only interested where Mopar is," Gilchrist said. "Everyone is ignoring everyone else's programs."
Separately, FCA US announced on Jan. 25 it was expanding its technician training program and launching a networking campaign called "Assemble Your Future." The goal is to get students together with potential career opportunities at dealerships, at FCA, and with Dodge SRT and Mopar-sponsored professional racing teams.
The NADA Foundation also announced an initial round of donations for the Workforce Initiative, including $50,000 from the National Auto Auction Association, $50,000 from truck manufacturer Paccar and $25,000 from Porsche Cars North America. The NADA Foundation has donated an additional $250,000 to the effort.
Bad storytelling
Promoting dealership careers is a big part of the new NADA initiative. According to NADA, the average dealership technician in the United States makes $61,067 in salary, plus benefits. Experienced technicians at franchised dealerships can make more than $100,000 annually, and service managers even more.
Brinkman: Overcome “reputation tax.”
"As an industry, we're really, really bad at telling our story, for why you would want to work in the industry at all, let alone at a particular dealership. Yet every dealership has a story to tell," said Scott Brinkman, vice president of product at Hireology. The Chicago vendor helps small businesses, including dealerships, hire employees and manage human resources needs.
Brinkman said it's essential for the industry to recruit technicians from outside auto retail, but there's a "reputation tax" to overcome, because the industry is known for long hours and dirty, difficult work.
He said Hireology identifies candidates in "adjacent" businesses where employees likely learned some mechanical skills, such as quick-lube locations, trucking operations and the military. Recruiting is focused on newcomers, he said. "You're not going to find a master technician with 20 years of experience who doesn't already have a job if he wants a job," Brinkman said. "You're just not."
Hmm, this is four months old. This article is being discussed by technicians who care about the trade and the work that they do here. https://diag.net/msg/m1674u... You have to be a member there to access that but here are some excerpts.
One of the best technicians I have the pleasure of knowing wrote this. "It's another feel good program for auto dealers. He asked "If you could, would you hire a trained technician today?" Gilchrist asked his NADA Show audience. Hundreds and hundreds of hands went up, in an auditorium full of dealer principals, dealership managers and employees, family members and industry service providers. Instead he should have asked "Are you willing to pay a top trained technician what he's worth?" No hands would go up."
If you want to fix the tech shortage, you need to start by fixing the problems that the techs have to constantly overcome. Flat rate doesn't work anymore and hasn't for years simply because the rates aren't flat. As one of the other responders pointed out you hire "A" techs at $30/hr and then assign jobs that pay half of what it takes to do and he/she is only making $15.00 hr. That makes the promise of a $100,000 career seem a bit far fetched because it would take 6600+ hours a year to hit that number. (BTW there are only 8760 hours in a year) Now that's not saying that someone out there isn't making $100K but under the current system they are about as rare as someone who wants to work over 6000 hours a year.
"The salaries he quotes are not nationally based and may only exist in major metro areas, if at all. The older techs are being driven out of the profession by high tech. Not because they can't repair electrics, hybrids, ADAS, data communications, infotainment, etc. but because they can. Being an older, fully trained A tech in a dealership means that you are forced to survive on mostly low paying warranty work because the younger techs can't repair them. It's not an incentive to get paid maybe 2 or 3 dollars an hour more than the B tech in the next stall who is doing brakes, flushes, alignments and all the gravy work and flagging double your hours. B techs have learned that it's not to their advantage to become an A tech and get a pay reduction so they don't take any basic training required to qualify for advanced courses."
That is a management failure for growing that culture and nothing in the above article addresses it. The master tech that can handle anything that comes in the door could turn great hours doing customer pay "gravy" work, but the reality is just that easier work is mostly done by less experienced techs and the top techs are barely surviving on warranty rate. One dealership near us is promising 120% of the warranty rate. That is a move in the right direction but read the next quote and tell me just what does that 20% do after the time has already been cut to 41% ( net result is still a 50% loss for the tech)
"It's very common in a dealership to see a warranty job that pays 8 hours reduced to 3.3 hours for no reason. All G.M. labor times are constantly being reduced over and over again but the principals insist that training is the reason for the tech exodus. G.M. will no longer allow their techs to call technical assistance to initiate a case. Instead, they must e-mail in a list of filled in documents and await an e-mail response. The time involved to do this is not covered under warranty and is unpaid to the techs. Who would want to open a case any more?"
Unpaid time performing required tasks, in a career that is based on being paid for what you do. Labor times that fail to pay the tech the time that it actually takes to do the work, let alone be able to beat. You can't explain that away you have to fix it and all of the other reasons why you can't attract candidates. It also isn't going to work to just promise better for future technicians, history often repeats itself and right now there is no proof that anything that changes will be for the better for the techs.
Basic services, nothing really technical at all and it is a pretty decent wage with real benefits and they can't find anybody to fill the openings. On one hand it serves everybody right that this is coming full circle and as I pointed out countless times its going to get worse, a lot worse before it ever starts to get better. If management could wipe away all of the reasons for someone to never consider the career overnight, it would still be twenty years before the next generation is up to speed as the technicians that are needed to replace the senior techs that are leaving. On the other hand it's still sad to see we were right all along that the trade couldn't be sustained with the way everyone of us was treated.
Well there is something I would not have known because I was not around in 1950. I do have two tubes on order. Plug-n-pray. If it still hums loudly (probably) I may send it off to ebay. It belonged to someone very special to me who has since passed, but in general I do not believe in keeping stuff just to keep stuff...hard decisions.
Thanks a lot Doc I appreciate the offer!
My question is this - won't the natural laws of supply and demand come into play, eventually?
It's not like the need for auto technicians will simply go away. We are still selling in excess of 13 million new cars, every year, and 99% of them are ICE. Service and maintenance will still be necessary.
If there aren't enough applicants for the jobs available, I would expect wages to go up. Granted, that doesn't help when folks aren't taking the necessary training to fill those jobs to begin with, but there seems to be a bit of a renaissance in trade labor - electricians, plumbers, etc. The kind of jobs that can't be outsourced, and the kind of jobs that, in the long run, pay pretty well.
Just one outsiders perspective, right or wrong.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
I am thinking of Hollywood. A new executive takes over a studio. He shuts down TV show X, which is profitable and fills the slot with show Y, "Because he likes that show better." Networks/studios fund all operations with a tiny handful of successes and they do whatever they want with the rest. In the car world the dealers buy up all of the used cars that look great on the outside and sell them for many times what they paid for them, and that funds whatever else they want to do. The rest does not have to make sense.
Money does not always drive business decisions. Usually, but these cases are exceptions.
A friend recently sent a video. This guy is great LOL:
If everyone stopped buying used cars from dealerships, perhaps that would reshape the landscape.
Also the federal rules requiring OEMS to have independent dealerships should be re-examined.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
2x to 4x what they paid for it? In their dreams, maybe.
At the same time it has heated up outside a problem developed. When the car is first started there is a hesitation. If it is cool it is almost not noticeable. If the car sat in the sun and it is scorching out, I press the gas and NOTHING HAPPENS. The idle might dive a little bit. I have to play with the gas over 15+ seconds. When it finally starts revving the problem slowly disappears. Revs x time seems to be the fix (like the intake wanted to cool from air type of feel.) This mechanic took snapshot data, fixed the AC and gave the car back to me, and told me he needed to analyze the data and think about it. (Better than blindly swapping parts methinks.) He is perplexed. I found similar posts online for when this gen was brand new and *according to those darned Internet posts* dealers replaced the MAF sensor and the problem went away. One owner put the prior sensor in and POOF the problem returned. This mechanic said the MAF is not doing anything because it is not getting any air yet, so that would be a red herring. Being a motorcyclist and seeing screwball things happen with a bad battery I was wondering if it is not getting enough power at the initial idle or if the battery is an issue. After driving home the voltage was 12.8 and I put it on a Battery Tender. Very quickly the indicator showed that the battery was over 80% charged. The battery is a year old so that was what I expected.
Here is an example. They have to detect a .15ounce (4grams) a year leak at 3/8" but not alert at a .07 (2 grams) ounce a year.
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2016/05/11/1353629/0/en/J2791-J2913-Certified-Refrigerant-Leak-Detector.html
Most of the quality tools are going to run in the $400-$500 range.
The dye moves with the refrigerant oil, the oil has to leak for the dye to show up.
The MAF sensor is a primary input to calculate the base injector pulse width under all conditions. A MAF that is incorrectly reporting the airflow will result in the wrong amount of fuel (too rich or too lean) being delivered. The only difference between the cold start and the engine after it has run long enough is closed loop operation where input from the O2 sensors get's added to the calculation, but at 15seconds on a car that old you really wouldn't be in closed loop yet. If there is an issue with the MAF reporting the airflow the first thing to look at is the engine load calculation, you should be able to hit 100% engine load at wide open throttle under any engine speed. If you cannot reach that level the next thing to look at is the combined long term and short term fuel trims. If they are adding fuel then the MAF is under reporting the airflow. If they are taking fuel away then the system is getting too much fuel.
A system power issue will have a far greater impact of fuel pump operation,. injector on-time, and ignition system output than nit would on a MAF. In fact the PCM would modify the injection pulse to compensate for low power if that was in play, so that aspect can be ruled out.
For a tech to address your starting issue he/she has to set all of the testing in advance and then let the car sit long enough to get the problem to occur. That means use an oscilloscope to monitor injector pulse and ignition commands, crankshaft position sensor (or distributor reference) signal to the PCM, fuel pressure, and using the scan tool any other data as seen by the PCM. Then adjust the testing based on what was discovered during that first fifteen second window and wait for the next event if necessary.
A MAF is likely to cause this issue and a lot of people do just throw the part at the failure. The irony of that being successful is found in the fact that the discipline, knowledge and experience needed to figure the problem out the first time, every time, doesn't get studied and practiced and is therefore lost to all but a handful of people.
https://www.google.com/search?q=MAF+signal+throttle+snap&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=lvzIWv7VRRbkZM%3A%2Ckvoi88fyeBoO4M%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRNOtZ7A1MevJOxLg888og8fMMKAw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiaz76h853jAhVTZM0KHe_HBvsQ9QEwEXoECAkQBA&biw=1366&bih=619#imgrc=lvzIWv7VRRbkZM:
The cat is 19 years old. I have been reading on how they fail. I did a cross country trip and the mechanic on the other end neglected to fasten the engine cover after an oil change. It ground off on the road, leaving the underneath exposed. I road through icy conditions which would have splashed freezing water on the hot converter. That was five months ago. I wonder if that finished off the aged cat.