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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194

    I thought I read the Impala was rated the highest for large sedan.

    Yes, my mistake.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    tlong said:

    Well I just received my CR annual auto issue today.

    CR, criticized by many as biased in these forums in years past, has the Cruze as the highest overall rated Compact car, and the LaCrosse as the highest rated large sedan. The Buick Regal is the highest rated entry/premium car, tied with the Audi A4.

    A really improved showing for GM from say 10 years ago, good job to them!

    I don't know about GM, but I'd say those results tell me the people working directly for Buick have earned their yearly bonus this year. Can't say that about all of GM. Now if only Buick could make their cars more desirable and a better value, they'd take-off!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    D3 seems to overprice their vehicle stickers and then throw on incentives . Just saw an article today that D3 has more incentive cost than labor cost on some vehicles. Well duh!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited March 2017
    I've done my share of goofing on CR, but it's nice to see two Chevys on their list. I like the Impala a lot; just too expensive for me right now and too big for my wife to drive without parking by feel, LOL.

    Besides liking our Cruze, I think it's an exceptional value. Never pay attention to window sticker on a GM; I haven't in 36 years, LOL.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729

    I've done my share of goofing on CR, but it's nice to see two Chevys on their list. I like the Impala a lot; just too expensive for me right now and too big for my wife to drive without parking by feel, LOL.

    Besides liking our Cruze, I think it's an exceptional value. Never pay attention to window sticker on a GM; I haven't in 36 years, LOL.

    The Cruze's ratings have got my attention; that's for sure.

    Whether one believes in CR or not, I think it is much harder to deny that there is a good segment of the population that does believe in CR's ratings, and therefore the market will be influenced by them whether one likes it or not.

    My brother in law may be in the vehicle market very soon, as his '09 Mazda 6 is becoming old and all used up. He wants a vehicle, possibly a hatchback, and something with some guts (power)! First and foremost I think he should be in a GTI, but, if the Cruze has enough oomph for him, he might be wise to consider it. It's hard for me to steer someone towards the Chevy, but I can't deny the reviews, ratings and resuilts. Also, the GTI's Mexican factory's results are not impressive in terms of CR reliability data.

    Still, in the end, since there isn't a Cruze SS, I think the GTI is the right car for him in 2017.

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited March 2017
    The Cruze hatch is made in Mexico, and it's only been out a few months. Just sayin'. :)

    I know everybody feels this way about their new car, but I have genuine pride-of-ownership in this new Cruze of ours. I considered brighter colors, but the car I wanted, the LT with zero additional options, was in a charcoal metallic and I think it looks "adult", as I know younger people also buy the Cruze (I think).

    I washed it a couple weeks ago and left it out in the driveway afterwards. My wife pulled in later and said, "That really is a nice-looking car".

    The LT has nice, deep-looking aluminum wheels, and the interior is nicer than my Cobalts (of course). There's a chrome belt molding outside.

    I removed the dealer's license-plate frame and put a chromed frame on it. There's no dealer advertising on it at all. I do think it's a nice-looking car. I'd stop short of "beautiful", but it fits our purpose.

    I don't think we need bigger, and my wife and I agreed that in a couple years if we still like it, we could see ourselves getting a second one.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729

    The Cruze hatch is made in Mexico, and it's only been out a few months. Just sayin'. :)

    I know everybody feels this way about their new car, but I have genuine pride-of-ownership in this new Cruze of ours. I considered brighter colors, but the car I wanted, the LT with zero additional options, was in a charcoal metallic and I think it looks "adult", as I know younger people also buy the Cruze (I think).

    I washed it a couple weeks ago and left it out in the driveway afterwards. My wife pulled in later and said, "That really is a nice-looking car".

    The LT has nice, deep-looking aluminum wheels, and the interior is nicer than my Cobalts (of course). There's a chrome belt molding outside.

    I removed the dealer's license-plate frame and put a chromed frame on it. There's no dealer advertising on it at all. I do think it's a nice-looking car. I'd stop short of "beautiful", but it fits our purpose.

    I don't think we need bigger, and my wife and I agreed that in a couple years if we still like it, we could see ourselves getting a second one.

    Have you posted a picture of it? What engine and transmission are they putting in them these days?

    I am one who prefers lighter or more colorful colors, but the dark gray "Daytona Gray Pearl" is more Adult-like on my Audi; it is pretty Stealth-Like..... I feel safer from speeding tickets out on the highway than I probably would in Vegas Yellow.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    I'm old and low-tech about posting pics, but my signature thumbnail shows the car. If you click on my name, you can see a bigger pic of it.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited March 2017
    1.4 liter with turbo; 6-speed automatic.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Man, if the Cruze hatch was available with a manual, 300 hp and RWD biased AWD I'd be first in line.
    Seriously.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,063

    Man, if the Cruze hatch was available with a manual, 300 hp and RWD biased AWD I'd be first in line.
    Seriously.

    A return of the Z24?

    :laughing:

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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Well Ford offers a Focus ST with 250HP or you can go all out with the RS with 350HP
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited March 2017
    Pickups are where the D3 really rack up the rebates. I've seen up to $12k in rebates on certain models at the end of a MY.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The profit margin is huge on pickups. So that $12K rebate may actually be a smaller hit to margin than say $3K on a car.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    dieselone said:

    Well Ford offers a Focus ST with 250HP or you can go all out with the RS with 350HP

    I did think long and hard about the RS; it's really impressive. If I wasn't one and done with FWD I would have seriously considered the Fiesta ST.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729

    dieselone said:

    Well Ford offers a Focus ST with 250HP or you can go all out with the RS with 350HP

    I did think long and hard about the RS; it's really impressive. If I wasn't one and done with FWD I would have seriously considered the Fiesta ST.
    The problem with the Focus RS is it is still a Focus that costs $40K.

    The other problem is the Focus is being murdered in user reported reviews via CR. Are all Focuses made in the same factory? Anyone know?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited March 2017

    Man, if the Cruze hatch was available with a manual, 300 hp and RWD biased AWD I'd be first in line.
    Seriously.

    I wonder if the 2.0 Turbo can be fitted into the Cruze. I believe a manual is available with some engine--maybe it's the diesel that's coming. The Clean Diesel.

    Edit: the L base is manual. The LS and LT sedans are available with manual. The LT hatchback is available with manual.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    The RS is only built in Germany. The main knock on the garden variety Focus has been the less than stellar dual clutch gearbox.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    andres3 said:

    dieselone said:

    Well Ford offers a Focus ST with 250HP or you can go all out with the RS with 350HP

    I did think long and hard about the RS; it's really impressive. If I wasn't one and done with FWD I would have seriously considered the Fiesta ST.
    The problem with the Focus RS is it is still a Focus that costs $40K.

    True, but a $40k WRX STI is still an Impreza and has 50 less hp. Bottom line, is you'll need to spend some cash on any performance awd vehicle with over 300hp.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    imidazol, although this is my first automatic (for my own car) in five cars, and I knew I wanted an automatic this time, I've heard of the Cruze 'L' but I have never seen even one on a lot. Fact is, I never have seen a stick-shift Cruze in inventory, which I guess makes sense. When I bought my Cobalt new in '08, dealers might have one or two coupes with stick in stock, but no sedans. My dealer went to Indianapolis to get a four-door with stick, base model, with optional ABS.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I haven't seen many Cruze manuals, but a buddy of mine did manage to find a Cruze Eco with a 6 speed manual on the dealer lot a few years ago. He's been happy with it, though he's had some transmission problems requiring the trans to be replaced (IIRC, it the clutch wouldn't disengage, clutch was replaced at 20k miles, then it happened again at 30k and the trans was replaced).
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    I've seen manual Cruzes in that first generation, but not the current one. Luckily, I've never replaced a single clutch in any of my Chevys, four cars totaling 445K miles. Actually, I never did a thing with any of those transmissions; even replace fluid.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I've come to the point where I prefer manuals in cars that really need one- those with engines that need to be wound out to make significant power. With the newer turbo engines that make peak torque from 1300-4500 rpm I tend to prefer a well-programed automatic that shifts quickly, rev matches, and has a true manual mode- like the ZF 8HP.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I can say the zf 8hp is a great transmission (love it in my ram), I bet in a car like the Cruze eco, you can gain some efficiency with then manual. But yeah I see your point. Today's autos are very good, though I've yet to sample a manual mode in an auto that's satisfying.

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited March 2017
    My 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS had an automatic CVT with paddle shifters that really worked pretty well. When I just got the car I would switch the gearshift over and down and in to paddle - shifter mode and play around with it. After the newness wore off it wasn't as fun. But precise? Yes! No slippage and fun as can be.


    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited March 2017
    It can mean buying a small purple car like this one. Which is a Chevrolet Spark - built in South Korea by Chevy-Daewoo and sold in America by Chevy!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited March 2017
    I call that a 'captive import', LOL. Sold at Chevy dealers is the only thing American about that thing.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    dieselone said:

    I can say the zf 8hp is a great transmission (love it in my ram), I bet in a car like the Cruze eco, you can gain some efficiency with then manual. But yeah I see your point. Today's autos are very good, though I've yet to sample a manual mode in an auto that's satisfying.

    The 8HP in my 2 Series has an excellent manual mode; shifts are immediate and it will even let you hit the rev limiter rather than upshift. The last time I had it on the track I just pu the box in Sport mode and let it do its thing. There were only a couple of places on the track where I might have done something different, but that's about it.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Ran into someone online that argued the old "your an anti-American TRAITOR for buying Japanese and German vehicles" and you should go live there since you like their cars so much. And of course, mentions WW2 that happened over 70 years ago.

    I point out how the Big 3 sucked, and he said they were "forced" to be that way due to unfair competition from our "enemies".
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Most big industry is global these days. That is why tariffs will mostly end up just driving up prices for consumers. If you look at the S&P 500; many, many of the listed companies derive a substantial chunk of their revenues from outside the US these days. You should have pointed out that many of those "foreign" brands are actually produced in the US nowadays.

    However, I think you are looking backwards when you state the Big 3 suck. The statistical difference in Consumers Reports between above average and average reliability is not nearly as steep as just 5 or 10 years ago. There are a lot of good vehicles out there today from all kinds of manufacturer's.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    edited June 2019
    I pretty much abandoned the Big 3 in the mid to late '80s- as at that time it appeared that their shared goal was to switch most every model they produced to FWD(see: Mustang/Probe). Even now, aside from a couple of Jeeps(GC, Wrangler) the only current American cars I'd seriously consider would be the Bullitt, GT350, or a Hellcat Widebody

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    berri said:

    Most big industry is global these days. That is why tariffs will mostly end up just driving up prices for consumers. .

    However, the converse is that the companies not having production in the US, for various products of the S&P as cited, actually has imposed a tariff (tax) on those who used to make a living from the manufacturing jobs. So the costs to the residents of those areas that used to have manufacturing jobs, such as Ohio, has been in lower wages, people not even finding jobs, people turning to SS and disability--itself a tax on the other taxpayers, and people ending up with various drug habits and overdosing. Some areas of the country have been bearing the tariff, tax, so that others could have cheaper products.

    There are two sides to the tariff idea: the tariffs that weren't collected for the last 20 years and the cost to the people is one not mentioned in the MSM.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited June 2019
    berri said:

    However, I think you are looking backwards when you state the Big 3 suck. The statistical difference in Consumers Reports between above average and average reliability is not nearly as steep as just 5 or 10 years ago. There are a lot of good vehicles out there today from all kinds of manufacturer's.

    Agree. And the dealer often makes the difference in how they handle some of the problems.



    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Funny thing though, not all products consumers have abandoned domestic makers for are necessarily cheaper (see Euro cars).

    I can't think of any media source that isn't mainstream in some way. These days we have defacto state-sponsored media, too.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    It would be nice if tariffs increased US jobs and salaries, but I wouldn't bet on it. First, US plants are much more technology advanced, so as witnessed when US Steel reopened its Granite City (I believe) plant, only a fraction of previous employees were brought in. Second, US companies are already scouting out new offshore locations like Vietnam. As for salaries, we are at almost record full employment as a nation right now, and there is still little salary growth. The real winners are the executives and shareholders, not the workers financially. What high tariffs will do here primarily is raise consumer prices, and perhaps the tariff revenues will offset some of the tax cut lost revenues to the US Treasury. Bottom line: my bet is the middle and lower class end up absorbing the larger share of negative impact from the tariffs. Calvin Coolege and Herbert Hoover tried this tariff thing before and it ultimately led to the great depression. Trade between countries has been in existence for centuries.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I won't get too much into what I think about tariffs, as it quickly veers into politics. I will say that AFAIK, not one credible economist or similar will claim tariffs have ever created real benefit for workers in general. No reason to think it will be different this time. Just a distraction from other current issues.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    berri said:

    Most big industry is global these days. That is why tariffs will mostly end up just driving up prices for consumers. If you look at the S&P 500; many, many of the listed companies derive a substantial chunk of their revenues from outside the US these days. You should have pointed out that many of those "foreign" brands are actually produced in the US nowadays.

    However, I think you are looking backwards when you state the Big 3 suck. The statistical difference in Consumers Reports between above average and average reliability is not nearly as steep as just 5 or 10 years ago. There are a lot of good vehicles out there today from all kinds of manufacturer's.

    I did use the word "suck" in the past tense "sucked." So fair enough they have improved, but they still seem to suffer from unacceptable lemony models here and there.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194

    berri said:

    Most big industry is global these days. That is why tariffs will mostly end up just driving up prices for consumers. .

    However, the converse is that the companies not having production in the US, for various products of the S&P as cited, actually has imposed a tariff (tax) on those who used to make a living from the manufacturing jobs. So the costs to the residents of those areas that used to have manufacturing jobs, such as Ohio, has been in lower wages, people not even finding jobs, people turning to SS and disability--itself a tax on the other taxpayers, and people ending up with various drug habits and overdosing. Some areas of the country have been bearing the tariff, tax, so that others could have cheaper products.

    There are two sides to the tariff idea: the tariffs that weren't collected for the last 20 years and the cost to the people is one not mentioned in the MSM.

    Yes but at least those areas still have some jobs.
    Once trade became global, the cost disparities have driven a lot of business offshore. The foreign nameplates have at least set up a lot of factories here. Better than no jobs at all.
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