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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav
More love for the Genesis? I think not! You do feel everyone disses GM! I didn’t hear anyone defending the awful Nissan Sentra rental I complained about recently. I think we are all pretty much equal opportunity bashers. Every carmaker makes some good vehicles and some not so good, and we judge them accordingly.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
To be balanced and fair....the 2020 CT6 is really nice;
I read that Ford was doing much better with Lincolns than GM was doing with Cadillac. Lincoln concentrated on nice interiors, Cadillac went more for performance. Luxury buyers for these cars don't buy them for performance, they buy them for comfort and ambiance. Cadillac builds its own platforms which is costly, Ford does a makeover of a lesser car....Lincoln buyers don't know and don't care.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yes, I believe I'd like to go a bit smaller. The "updated" XF, to me, wasn't a step up; like the prior XE, an uninspired interior. Really, just a slight update to what I already have. So, in that vein, likely I'd just keep mine and invest the $ into it. Which is still a possiblity.
Regarding Alfa, both Giulia and Stelvio, I'm afraid I"ve been scared straight by:
-My local Alfa dealer turning into a Kia dealer
-The experiences I've read here
-Car and Driver's fairly scathning review of the long term Giulia QF
Tough ending to the LD weekend earlier today; as I exited the GF's CX-5, I heard a loud BANG up around the block. I jog up to the cross street, glance left, a head on collision at the intersection a block away. I call 911 and run over.
It appears an older Ford Escape crossed into the left lane just shy of the 4 way and was hit head on by an Exporer. OUt of the Ecape staggers an elderly gentleman, bleading from multiple lacerations on his nose, looking dazed and confused. In the passenger seat, a large woman on oxygen, looked in shock. In the back seat, a bit of a haggard gentleman who looked to have disabilities, he was kicking his walker out of the car. His left ankly appeared badly broken as the foot was at an unnatural angle. Perhaps pre-existing, but I think not.
The folks in the Exporer seemed ok, but in shock, too. Props to my local PD, FD and EMTs, they were on scene within 3 minutes of my 911 report. One EMT asked if I wss involved/hurt; luckily not. As there was not much I could/should do, I slipped away into the dusk. Shaken, but not nearly so as those involved.
The (at fault) elderly, nose-bleeding driver kept mumbling, "I can't believe I fell asleep at the wheel..." Hopefully, all involved will be as OK as possible. It's a scary world.
And, thoughts to the folks in the Dorian path...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
They haven't even seen one. But the reflex is to criticize and wave it off as meaningless and useless.
I don't criticize the Sentra other than styling. My son has had some small rentals and I get feedback from him on the certain ones that are in rental fleets. He had a Corolla where he like the safety features, although not the full set was on it. As to the Impala, it looks like they are still building them on GM's page. They are rare at the GM dealers around here. They must be selling because people know they're ending them soon. Apparently we're getting Canadian built Impalas. US production ended in March.
If I wanted a replacement for my larger Malibu, I'd consider a fully equipped Impala. Same 2.5 normally aspirated engine as my Malibu.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
There’s nothing wrong with the Sentra if you want basic transportation but if you go from one directly into an Impala or Caddy you’ll certainly notice the difference.
The rental companies bought up a lot of the last run of Impalas so if you get nostalgic you could get one in a year or two. September through November is when we unload a tremendous number of cars on the market.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
https://youtu.be/NkiyAZ63RT8
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
4. Chevrolet Impala
It seems that regardless of what you do, there are always unintended consequences. Take the case of the Impala. Chevy used it to go after the Toyota Avalon and become the highest selling sedan in America. Tons of promotion (i.e. incentives to consumers and to dealers) pumped Impalas out onto the highways at record rates. The backside is that used market quickly becomes flooded as owners decide the Chevy Impala wasn’t such a deal after all. The result is the first car on out list to have lost over a third of its value in one year (-33.5%), a cash difference of $10,800. Looking for a car so you can start driving for Uber?
Cadillac CTS is interesting:
3. Cadillac CTS
In 2002 the Cadillac CTS was introduced to replace the Catera (not a very high bar). Since then, the CTS has been named to the Car and Driver 10 Best list six times and have won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award twice. So what gives? For the 2015 Caddy jacked up the price, and in order to clear 2014s and start selling 2015s lucrative discounts were applied. haven’t we heard this story before? In the first year the CTS dropped -36.9% off sticker, an equivalent of $20,000
Like I say about the Genesis....great reviews when it comes out.....then the truth becomes apparent:
1. Hyundai Genesis
Wow, what a shellacking. Image your premium sedan entry losing nearly 40% of its value in the first year. The Hyundai Genesis at first appeared to be an alternative to the Lexus GS. Sure, its styling was a little dated (the 2015 model is much better) but with a $39K MSRP versus the Lexus GS sticker of $50K for what were otherwise comparable cars, the Korean car seemed like a deal. Sort of. You had to add a few $K of options to match the Lexus equipment, and if you were expecting Lexus reliability and white-glove dealer service, it wasn’t going to happen. First-year price difference: -38.2%, a drop of $16,600 on a $40K-ish car. Wow – these cars lose some serious value!
9 Cars that depreciate the most in the first year
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hope you slept OK last night....I hate the thought of coming upon the scene of an accident!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think it is brilliant that Ford keeps the price lower on a prestigious nameplate. I have two friends who have new Lincoln MKZs......a luxury car they can afford.....they couldn't care less about 0 to 60 times.
The article I read said Ford made the Nautilus much better than the Escalade.....much nicer interior.
For some reason Ford seldom outsells GM, so volume doesn't mean much - profitability may mean more.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm not so sure about this story. I don't recall ever seeing great incentives on the Impala. And as for the line "pumped Impalas out onto the highways at record rates", that's news to me. The Impala was a big disappointment to GM in terms of sales as it just never caught on with buyers because it was too big and wasn't a SUV. Rental car companies did like it of course, just as they like Fusions and Altimas. They make for a great used-car buy, especially if you find one in nicer trims and colors.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Every time I see certain Lincolns, I'm trying to visualize the other Ford that shares that platform.
Many years back, toyota redesigned the avalon. It was fully praised by the MSautoM. I read Edmunds reviews and had noticed they mentioned the avalon was on a camry platform stretched (just like Park Avenue and some Cadillacs in the 90s and 00s shared the H platform, stretched, by GM.
I remember a toyota salesperson who fully advocated for anything toyota who told me I was wrong. He KNEW.
I quoted the Edmunds article for them. I believe he also said everything was unique to the new avalon, if I'm remember the right topics. All new parts unique to the higher quality automobile. I started citing the part numbers for the shared major parts of the vehicle, some from rockauto.com
So cars often share more than some want to admit. The folks around here driving their Lincoln with their noses up likely would reconsider had they knows the commonality.
IIRC during the development of the now 3 year old Accord, it was developed on the Civic platform. I notice in the descriptions on the net the naming of the platforms for the two is not where I can find it. I want to see if it's the same.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Your list is skewed by a fact that others have brought up.... actual transaction price!!
The Impala and CTS for sure command big discounts from sticker. So, look at it this way:
Impala - Let's say 40K MSRP. All day long you buy it for 32K.
Using the 33.5% loss stated in one year, it would be worth $26,600.
Taking the fact you paid 32K; the net loss is 16.9 % or $5400
BIG difference.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
While the toyota store was adding hundreds in doc fees and unpacking fees to raise their price, sometimes about sticker, GM and others were reducing prices to move the merchandise to keep the factory running due to the reality of fixed based costs of operation.
I got a really good deal on my 14 Malibu during the March push they had nationally. I listened to the salesman on the phone in the next booth tell a GM employee discount buyer that the markdowns occuring were about the same as the GM price that person would pay. I quickly checked over my offering price for the car my saleslady was searching to bring in for me.
So my Malibu didn't have the first year or the three year depreciation drop the statistics folks would ascribe to it.
If I'd bought a Honda or Camry, I'd likely have suffered a higher drop.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Because China is this vehicle's key luxury market, it was important that the rear seat be spacious as that's where the owner or special passengers ride."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I quoted the Edmunds article for them. I believe he also said everything was unique to the new avalon, if I'm remember the right topics. All new parts unique to the higher quality automobile. I started citing the part numbers for the shared major parts of the vehicle, some from rockauto.com
The Avalon always shared major components with the V6 Camry (as did the Lexus ES)... the big confusion came in 2005 when the "new" Avalon was introduced. The chassis was heavily modified and stretched along with an all new engine, the 2GR V6. The 2007 Camry was then given the updated platform and the 2GR V6, along with the Highlander and RX SUVs.
I know we had words years ago on this and to a point we are both right....
To think that the Avalon isn't anything than a stretched V6 Camry is wrong.
There are virtually no higher end autos that don't share their roots with more mainstream options (even if the car isn't offered in this country).
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
"Because China is this vehicle's key luxury market, it was important that the rear seat be spacious as that's where the owner or special passengers ride."
Makes sense... the sedan market in this country is dwindling. I'd venture to say most manufacturers simply don't make much money on them.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I still believe Caddy's pricing scheme contributed to their issues. While they may have been building competitive"European" type cars, they weren't building a better mouse trap. Yet, they priced them like they were. Toyota/Lexus laid out a blueprint in '89; Caddy ignored it. Toyota built a MB S class, priced it more Toyota than MB. Toyota was forward looking (I'll believe), priced to build market share and establish the brand. Caddy was a bit arrogant, "We've built a BMW 3 competitor! It's just as good, so you'll pay just as much for it!" Probably simplistic, but a theory.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Cadillac vs Lincoln
Depreciation
GM bashing?
I have driven the CT6 and the Continental. The CT6 is heads and shoulders above the Continental in terms of styling, performance and technology. The Lincoln’s interior seemed plusher, however the Cadillac handled and out-performed the Lincoln. I would definitely give the CT5 a look-see before commenting on anything I saw or read in the print media.
When it comes to the Genesis, as far as depreciation is concerned, Hyundai vehicles, since their very introduction into the US market, had awful resale and wholesale values. They were a car salesman’s and used car manager’s nightmare when it came to negotiating a deal with a Hyundai trade. That is why I would never “buy” a Genesis - but I would “lease” one because of their inflated residuals. Nothing personal, jmonroe - the Genesis is a great car for the money, but...when it comes to trading it in...! Depreciation on my S450 is disgusting. That’s why I leased it rather than buy it.
Now, for GM bashing. I personally believe this has been caused by the bad reputation GM had during the 1980’s through the turn of the century and a bit beyond, perpetrated by the media and disgruntled GM owners at the time. It’s going to take more time for this bashing to ebb so long as GM produces great cars consistently.
2021 Genesis G90
Looking at it another way, the car seems to be a great bargain if you buy a used one and can save 33% after one year..........but if the depreciation is only 17% maybe I am better off buying a Toyota.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No they didn't.... that price is inflated because customers have been trained that GM = big discounts.
Same with many other brands and even other industries.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2021 Genesis G90
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
E.g., if in 2 years my son wants my 14 Malibu with 50K miles on it and I want a new Impala, I'd have to find a CPO that has all the options I want, but I'd be perfectly happy buying used to replace my Malibu.
My one factor I notice is that many of the newer sedans are lower and harder to get into now. My Malibu sits a little higher than the new Malibu, but it's noticeably different to get in and out. Maybe I'll buy a Traxx.
I pointed out a Soul the other day and my wife had unkind words about the external style that I won't repeat here since I don't want to start a bashing war. I could live with one especially to replace the Cobalt because it's easier in and out then is the Cobalt.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
With cars like the MKZ it isn’t had to see the Fusion underneath. The Town Car was pretty similar to the Crown Vic. Some other Lincolns, not so much.
My MarkVIII was so different from the Thunderbird/Cougar siblings that I never realized they were all on the same basic platform. Engine, suspension and interior were completely different.
Does sharing a platform define a car? How about the Chrysler 300, Charger, Challenger trio? Pretty different.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Depreciation percentage measured off MSRP is a useless gauge of cost for a consumer who expects buying the vehicle at large discount. It does not inform you how much it will cost you to have this car over next number of years. It only informs you that the manufacturer put an unrealistic price sticker on the car.
I think main reason for GM and other companies (domestic, Korean) to keep those unrealistic stickers to allow consumers roll in negative equity from their previous domestic purchase and keep bank from asking too many questions (especially if the bank is also a captive). This way things still look great and the loans look properly secured with enough collateral and the auditors can't raise concerns with risk.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
BTW, I think Hyundai/Kia vehicle values are much better today than they used to be, as the vehicles themselves are much better. Genesis is a different animal - its problem is mostly in the dealer network, not the car itself. You can't sell "premium/luxury" item from a makeshift kiosk at a mall. Genesis should have been a project for 10-15 years and Hyundai should have taken a page from Toyota's Lexus play. Seems they run out of steam and interest in year two. I think it will either be folded in next five years, or Hyundai will have to shell out substantially more money to give it a second life.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)