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Comments

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    edited September 3
    fintail said:

    Not sure if I buy that, seems like more of a goofy decision made by a stylist and approved by a goofy cradle to grave style exec, who is now facing heat (but will dodge accountability). I think CT6 might be more of a car to be driven in, CT5 is owner-operated, so to speak.

    A comment I found about the CT5 rear window being more extended than the little triangles on many sedans...
    "Because China is this vehicle's key luxury market, it was important that the rear seat be spacious as that's where the owner or special passengers ride."

    Makes sense....height of an average Asian male is 5'7". Average height of an American male 5"10".
    You don't need to make the roof line any larger for the Asian market.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    You know what doesn't make sense to me is that younger American men seem to often be over 5'10" , and more than a few woman too. So why are car company's often cutting legroom and using smaller seats with shorter seat bottoms. I see larger SUVs with only 41" or thereabout these days. If you are a six footer that is a bit tight. Not that long ago it seemed that most vehicles had at least 42" and often more, and small, short seats start to get uncomfortable after a few hours. I don't want airline seating in my personal vehicle.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 5,034
    We dodged a bullet here in South Florida. Some winds and squally weather these last couple of days but nothing major and luckily, no power loss. Went to get my bagel for breakfast this morning and had a few folks inside eating. And the Publix next door was open. Things are getting back to normal.
    Compared to Mike, I live maybe 4 miles up the road NW, right near his MB store and my VW one. Sun is shinning now. Here's hoping Dorian spares the rest of the US and our prayers are with the Bahamas!!!

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,314
    berri said:

    You know what doesn't make sense to me is that younger American men seem to often be over 5'10" , and more than a few woman too. So why are car company's often cutting legroom and using smaller seats with shorter seat bottoms. I see larger SUVs with only 41" or thereabout these days. If you are a six footer that is a bit tight. Not that long ago it seemed that most vehicles had at least 42" and often more, and small, short seats start to get uncomfortable after a few hours. I don't want airline seating in my personal vehicle.

    Cheaper? And some style over function. I hate short seat cushions, and have rejected otherwise good options just for that reason.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,546
    edited September 3
    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    They'll always want your car if you buy a new one, especially late model. Just not necessarily at price you think you deserve. At the end, it's all same thing. If you own it for three years, it can be over 10 grand difference between one brand/model or another for same effective acquisition price. But if you own it for 10 years, it's just a couple of grand at best.

    There are also "niche" cars, like my previous wagon. That would be one that average dealer would say "nobody wants". It's one you wouldn't find new anywhere, because they "don't sell". Guess what, when I put it for sale, I had a guy in Canada seriously asking about it. I had two offers, one from Florida and one from North Carolina within just couple of days. Cars like those, when wanted, are wanted really bad. If I cared about "depreciation", or being "saleproof", I'd never order my wagon. But I didn't, I bought a car for me, not the next guy. Turned out OK even with the next guy. Now, I'm sure Impala is not that type of car, it's the exact opposite, of course. It's too common, market flooded beyond its retail appeal due to rental and other fleets dropping thousands of those every week. Cars that fleet managers or their customers would not buy for themselves, but serve their purpose when purchased. I think those could be amazing used car deals for those who don't mind buying silver or white run-of-the-mills sedan that will get them from A to B reliably and economically.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,546
    stickguy said:

    berri said:

    You know what doesn't make sense to me is that younger American men seem to often be over 5'10" , and more than a few woman too. So why are car company's often cutting legroom and using smaller seats with shorter seat bottoms. I see larger SUVs with only 41" or thereabout these days. If you are a six footer that is a bit tight. Not that long ago it seemed that most vehicles had at least 42" and often more, and small, short seats start to get uncomfortable after a few hours. I don't want airline seating in my personal vehicle.

    Cheaper? And some style over function. I hate short seat cushions, and have rejected otherwise good options just for that reason.
    Same thing here - show stopper for me. I would touch BMW with their "non-sport" seats. Short thigh support is killing me withing just a few miles of driving. Can't stand it.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,546
    berri said:

    You know what doesn't make sense to me is that younger American men seem to often be over 5'10" , and more than a few woman too. So why are car company's often cutting legroom and using smaller seats with shorter seat bottoms. I see larger SUVs with only 41" or thereabout these days. If you are a six footer that is a bit tight. Not that long ago it seemed that most vehicles had at least 42" and often more, and small, short seats start to get uncomfortable after a few hours. I don't want airline seating in my personal vehicle.

    Perhaps some airline executives took jobs in automotive business?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,546
    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    I just can't see you selling three years old $30k+ E-class Benz on your own, anyway.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,388
    driver100 said:

    Mike, I agree with everything you said, but, I don't think there was GM bashing. The way a car looks is subjective, there are lots of cars that get uglier when new models come out. I like my 2015 E400 more than the 2017 model. I think Cadillac had a unique squarish look.....they lost it with the 5 but they made it even better on the 6.

    in this video Tom Voelk (formerlly with the NY Times) interviews Ken Kornas, Cadillac Global Product Manager and Brian Smith, Cadillac Exterior Design Director of the CT5 to get an understanding of their design language and marketing strategy.
    These silver-tongued talkers dare you to take a test drive of the CT5 without a smile on your face. And I just might.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,907
    Thankx for posting.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    I just can't see you selling three years old $30k+ E-class Benz on your own, anyway.
    Not a 3 year old E 400, but a Genesis. Or some guys mentioned cars the dealer never wanted to take in. I bet today Fiats would be a hard sell. Qashquai is a hard sell, as are Mercedes CLA and Chev Sonic.
    Some dealers would rather see you walk out the door than get stuck with a hard to sell trade-in. Of course, they will offer you nothing for it and pawn it off or hope you go away.
    OTOH...if you have a trade-in that is in demand....then making a trade gets a lot easier.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    I just can't see you selling three years old $30k+ E-class Benz on your own, anyway.
    A used Genesis could be a slow seller...on a BMW or a Mercedes dealers lot. Guess if the dealer owns a Hyundai dealership they could send it there.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,546
    driver100 said:

    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    I just can't see you selling three years old $30k+ E-class Benz on your own, anyway.
    Not a 3 year old E 400, but a Genesis. Or some guys mentioned cars the dealer never wanted to take in. I bet today Fiats would be a hard sell. Qashquai is a hard sell, as are Mercedes CLA and Chev Sonic.
    Some dealers would rather see you walk out the door than get stuck with a hard to sell trade-in. Of course, they will offer you nothing for it and pawn it off or hope you go away.
    OTOH...if you have a trade-in that is in demand....then making a trade gets a lot easier.
    So they will take it... You’ll just get what it’s worth to them, i.e. nothing. :wink:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,744
    tjc78 said:

    A comment I found about the CT5 rear window being more extended than the little triangles on many sedans...
    "Because China is this vehicle's key luxury market, it was important that the rear seat be spacious as that's where the owner or special passengers ride."


    Makes sense... the sedan market in this country is dwindling. I'd venture to say most manufacturers simply don't make much money on them.

    We dodged a bullet here in South Florida. Some winds and squally weather these last couple of days but nothing major and luckily, no power loss. Went to get my bagel for breakfast this morning and had a few folks inside eating. And the Publix next door was open. Things are getting back to normal.
    Compared to Mike, I live maybe 4 miles up the road NW, right near his MB store and my VW one. Sun is shinning now. Here's hoping Dorian spares the rest of the US and our prayers are with the Bahamas!!!

    Does your company close down operations when these storms threaten? Mine will take us off the road if there’s a blizzard.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,744
    edited September 3
    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    I just can't see you selling three years old $30k+ E-class Benz on your own, anyway.
    Not a 3 year old E 400, but a Genesis. Or some guys mentioned cars the dealer never wanted to take in. I bet today Fiats would be a hard sell. Qashquai is a hard sell, as are Mercedes CLA and Chev Sonic.
    Some dealers would rather see you walk out the door than get stuck with a hard to sell trade-in. Of course, they will offer you nothing for it and pawn it off or hope you go away.
    OTOH...if you have a trade-in that is in demand....then making a trade gets a lot easier.
    So they will take it... You’ll just get what it’s worth to them, i.e. nothing. :wink:
    A car you would want to sell on your front lawn in hopes someone wouldn't know it wasn’t a desirable model or to someone looking for a bargain.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Its getting riskier selling a car yourself unless you are very familiar with the buyer. Better counterfeit bills and even forged or altered bank cashiers checks that are hard to discern. Then there is the increase in potential sales ending up becoming a robbery or worse.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,907
    Glad to hear from both of our South Florida denizens that they are doing okay.

    I had to laugh at the commercials during Wheel and the following show this evening. Myrtle Beach SC is advertising heavily--the hurricane has not even brushed by there yet. They are running commercials twice during the same break.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,314
    I think I am done at this point selling cars privately. Has not been fun for a while. Last one was my Volvo about 4 years ago. What a drag. And that was on the cheaper side. I would never try on a car above $10k

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394

    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    berri said:

    I think depreciation is an issue if you are shorter term owner or are comparing several vehicles you are interested in.

    I don't mind higher depreciation as much as having a car no one really wants as a trade-in. Or that is hard to sell privately.
    I just can't see you selling three years old $30k+ E-class Benz on your own, anyway.
    Not a 3 year old E 400, but a Genesis. Or some guys mentioned cars the dealer never wanted to take in. I bet today Fiats would be a hard sell. Qashquai is a hard sell, as are Mercedes CLA and Chev Sonic.
    Some dealers would rather see you walk out the door than get stuck with a hard to sell trade-in. Of course, they will offer you nothing for it and pawn it off or hope you go away.
    OTOH...if you have a trade-in that is in demand....then making a trade gets a lot easier.
    So they will take it... You’ll just get what it’s worth to them, i.e. nothing. :wink:
    A car you would want to sell on your front lawn in hopes someone wouldn't know it wasn’t a desirable model or to someone looking for a bargain.
    Exactly. And it becomes a bigger problem when you want to go from an unpopular oddball car that sold in smaller numbers (Impala, Fiat, Qashqui, Mitsu), and in order to try to salvage some dollars you try to sell it privately....to someone who doesn't know or doesn't care.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    edited September 4
    berri said:

    Its getting riskier selling a car yourself unless you are very familiar with the buyer. Better counterfeit bills and even forged or altered bank cashiers checks that are hard to discern. Then there is the increase in potential sales ending up becoming a robbery or worse.

    Agree! Just saying there are some cars dealers don't want......if you need every penny from your trade-in then you may have to sell it privately to get max dollars for it.
    Another reason to trade, especially on expensive cars is because of the sales tax being paid only on the difference.
    But, if you are trying to trade in for example a Mitsu Lancer (slowest selling car) you may be better off trying to sell privately.
    1. Mitsubishi Lancer
    • Average days on lot: 195.3
    • 2018 sales: 3,351
    • 2017 sales: 12,725
    Interesting...cars that take the longest to sell on dealers lots

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • thebeanthebean Parts UnknownPosts: 1,137
    Say what you will about Hondas, but I’ve never had a problem getting a good trade-in amount when I change cars. The dealers seem to want them for their used car lots, even my ‘02 Civic, traded in 2015. It went right on their lot and was gone in a week.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,632
    thebean said:

    Say what you will about Hondas, but I’ve never had a problem getting a good trade-in amount when I change cars. The dealers seem to want them for their used car lots, even my ‘02 Civic, traded in 2015. It went right on their lot and was gone in a week.

    Hondas retain outstanding value when compared to most other brands. Toyota and Lexus are other brands that retain excellent value when it comes time to trade or sell them. When I was in the car business, I always put more money into a Honda, Lexus or Toyota trades because I wanted those brands on my used car lot.

    I also put extra money into “clean” trades with low mileage. But when it came to Hyundai’s and Kia’s, my hands were tied because of their poor wholesale value at the auctions. I have not kept up to date on current trade values of the Korean manufactured cars, but friends in the business inform me that there is still a reduced wholesale value at the auctions.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,744
    stickguy said:

    I think I am done at this point selling cars privately. Has not been fun for a while. Last one was my Volvo about 4 years ago. What a drag. And that was on the cheaper side. I would never try on a car above $10k

    Where’s your sense of adventure. What could be more thrilling than having some shady dude come to your home and admit he hadn’t had a drivers license in ten years and tell you he had to give his sugar mama some “loving” to get the money?

    True story.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,405
    bwia said:


    in this video Tom Voelk (formerlly with the NY Times) interviews Ken Kornas, Cadillac Global Product Manager and Brian Smith, Cadillac Exterior Design Director of the CT5 to get an understanding of their design language and marketing strategy.
    These silver-tongued talkers dare you to take a test drive of the CT5 without a smile on your face. And I just might.

    The designer is actually bragging about this feature. I dunno, I can't recall seeing many DLOs that look more awkward than this one. The vertical divider in the door frame between the moving and fixed glass is particularly bad:



    As the reviewer says, need to see it in person.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • omarmanomarman Posts: 1,891
    Everything old is new again but still a bit awkward.


  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    edited September 4
    "
    ab348

    The designer is actually bragging about this feature. I dunno, I can't recall seeing many DLOs that look more awkward than this one. The vertical divider in the door frame between the moving and fixed glass is particularly bad:


    As the reviewer says, need to see it in person.


    Just my observation, but it is a pretty nice looking car, but the roof line is goofy. From the side, the rear side window looks huge (long) and that swirl on the end adds nothing.....I guess you could say it is distinctive, but distinctive because no one else would add it.
    And, do luxury car buyers want that hatchback look?




    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,307
    I'll take the funky C pillar and hatchback look over the Toyota/Lexus nearly comical front end treatments.

    I don't think the Caddy is a bad looking ride at all. A little Honda Accord-ish, but not in a bad way.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,907
    edited September 4
    tjc78 said:

    I don't think the Caddy is a bad looking ride at all. A little Honda Accord-ish, but not in a bad way.

    Until the car is available in person, I hesitate to completely judge the side window treatment in light of the goal of having a larger rear seat with proper window area to the side. I notice in the many pictures around the internet, varying car colors and varying angles make the treatment look better and look odd.

    The profile is Accord-like. I wonder how the size of the car being shorter than a CTS was will affect that in real world viewing. The styling has been done, according to the video, to keep the wheels and flank in proportion. The Honda Accord has a stretched look to make it look bigger than the Civic due to side styling cues that fool the eye. One just parked next to me at the local coffee fast market this morning. And I looked it over. It was in the red color. Not the best color for the car.

    Note the CT5 doesn'thave swoops and flutes sculptured into the side to fool the eye. There is a bottom line that shows in photos at the bottom of the door.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,752
    omarman said:

    Everything old is new again but still a bit awkward.

    I'll believe that when I start seeing fins on cars again.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,752
    tjc78 said:

    I'll take the funky C pillar and hatchback look over the Toyota/Lexus nearly comical front end treatments.

    I don't think the Caddy is a bad looking ride at all. A little Honda Accord-ish, but not in a bad way.

    Agree totally.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,560
    This is all I can see with that rear quarter/C-pillar design:

    image

    Just with a splash of Honda chrome. Not as offensive as most Toyolex design language, but nothing is. I wonder if the same designer from the Cruze worked on the CT5. If one is going to do the Germanic "same sausages different lengths" theme, they should agree on the type of sausage first.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,405
    Odd that they managed to do a similar fastback design on the Malibu without it looking so awkward:

    image

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,314
    That’s a nice looking car. I just don’t like the Chevy corporate dashboard design.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • omarmanomarman Posts: 1,891
    edited September 4

    omarman said:

    Everything old is new again but still a bit awkward.

    I'll believe that when I start seeing fins on cars again.

    "It’s called a ‘Shark Fin’ antenna because, you guessed it, it looks like a shark fin.
    The Mazdas today are known for KODO Design, which injects vitality and dynamic motion to car’s styling. Since the shark fin antenna was meant for Mazda’s new-generation models, the antenna had to be a part of KODO Design.
    "

    edit to add: Pic and text from Mazda's "WE ARE ENGINEERS" page.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,744
    fintail said:

    This is all I can see with that rear quarter/C-pillar design:

    image

    Just with a splash of Honda chrome. Not as offensive as most Toyolex design language, but nothing is. I wonder if the same designer from the Cruze worked on the CT5. If one is going to do the Germanic "same sausages different lengths" theme, they should agree on the type of sausage first.

    Funny, I rode in the back of a Cruze once and never noticed that bisected window. I think the styling of the Malibu is nice.

    On that CT5, since they are doing away with the XTS and I guess the CTS, is that the replacement for both of them? Will that be the only sedan or will Caddy retain the ATS?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,907
    edited September 4
    The car is new. It's length is between the ATS and CTS with emphasis on the interior room, along with a lot of other benchmarks, according to all the reading I've done. Still haven't seen one.

    The main thing is not to think it's a replacement for either model. It has its new benchmarks. I don't think it should be viewed as a competitor for any certain BMW model. Those comparisons always end up with "it doesn't do this," " it doesn't have that," and "it should do this" type comparisons with the other car always being perfect and the "newbie" the cheap imitator. (Does this sound a little like some comparing the G80 G90 and even G70 to other cars which are the "perfect" models?)

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,595
    Never have been able to figure out that after so many years....hell....decades....Fiat/Alfa can not figure out how to build a quality car. These problems have existed since they've been imported here....even back in the '60s.

    Does Europe really have a much greater tolerance to unreliable vehicles than we do?

    Not going to comment on GM, other than to say they sometimes can't seem to get out of their own way. I think the idea of taking Cadillac into the electric future is the right move. GM does have some electric momentum. Why they only stick their toes in the water is beyond me. If you're going to do it....then do it. Make everything either a hybrid or totally electric. This certainly wouldn't hurt Cadillac. They've been all over the map with their strategy over probably the last 25-30 years.

    I was really shocked when GM closed down Pontiac over Buick. Pontiac promised performance. Buick? Well, they still seem like a Cadillac clone.

    Chevy...trucks. GMC may as well go away as they're selling Chevy Truck clones.

    BTW.....I was supposed to be in FL for business meetings yesterday. Flights were delayed going to both FLL and MIA, so the meetings were postponed. Took the time and went to looks at some cars.

    Test drove a Stinger GT, again. Damn.....that is such a good car. And, they're still discounting those like crazy around here. No sightings of a G70 around these parts, yet.

    Test drove a Camry XSE V6. Unreal what Toyota has done with that car. It was actually fun to drive and materials and build quality have gone up quite a few rungs. For a $35K car, it's very compelling.

    TLS S-Type can't get here quick enough. I'm starting to miss the new car smell.

    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 13,744
    abacomike said:

    thebean said:

    Say what you will about Hondas, but I’ve never had a problem getting a good trade-in amount when I change cars. The dealers seem to want them for their used car lots, even my ‘02 Civic, traded in 2015. It went right on their lot and was gone in a week.

    Hondas retain outstanding value when compared to most other brands. Toyota and Lexus are other brands that retain excellent value when it comes time to trade or sell them. When I was in the car business, I always put more money into a Honda, Lexus or Toyota trades because I wanted those brands on my used car lot.

    I also put extra money into “clean” trades with low mileage. But when it came to Hyundai’s and Kia’s, my hands were tied because of their poor wholesale value at the auctions. I have not kept up to date on current trade values of the Korean manufactured cars, but friends in the business inform me that there is still a reduced wholesale value at the auctions.
    How did the Hyundais and Kias resale compare to the domestics like Ford, Chevy, Dodge?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,405


    On that CT5, since they are doing away with the XTS and I guess the CTS, is that the replacement for both of them? Will that be the only sedan or will Caddy retain the ATS?

    No, they have also announced the CT4, which is a refreshed ATS. You will note that the door shape and side windows are identical to the ATS. Some people do not like the rear end design, but I will wait to see it in person.

    image
    image

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,307
    edited September 4
    That’s a good looking car. Great color for it too... shame they will probably be black inside. That color would look killer with a beige interior.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    @graphicguy
    I was really shocked when GM closed down Pontiac over Buick. Pontiac promised performance. Buick?

    Pontiac sales volume had it out of the picture when GM had to scale down product lines. I think it was between Olds and Buick. Regardless, it really boiled down to China. They liked Buick over there. If GM dumped Buick here, its image would have tanked in China. So GM aligned Buick with GMC in the US to give non Chevy or Cadillac dealers a full lineup.
  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Same as jmonroePosts: 1,313
    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    @driver100
    Your list is skewed by a fact that others have brought up.... actual transaction price!!

    The Impala and CTS for sure command big discounts from sticker. So, look at it this way:
    Impala - Let's say 40K MSRP. All day long you buy it for 32K.
    Using the 33.5% loss stated in one year, it would be worth $26,600.
    Taking the fact you paid 32K; the net loss is 16.9 % or $5400
    BIG difference.

    I agree, but, I like to use the MSRP as the real gauge because GM thought the car would sell for $40k, when it didn't move they give it a bargain basement price of $32k. It gives me a better idea of what people thought of the car to get the full depreciation value....but, I know, in the back of my mind the car never sold for the full $40k.

    Looking at it another way, the car seems to be a great bargain if you buy a used one and can save 33% after one year..........but if the depreciation is only 17% maybe I am better off buying a Toyota.

    WOW, if that response doesn't sound like, "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up", I don't know what does.

    jmonroe
  • thebeanthebean Parts UnknownPosts: 1,137
    To me, the CT4 is a better looking car than the CT5. It’s just more distinctive and I don’t think the rear end looks bad at all.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,632

    abacomike said:

    thebean said:

    Say what you will about Hondas, but I’ve never had a problem getting a good trade-in amount when I change cars. The dealers seem to want them for their used car lots, even my ‘02 Civic, traded in 2015. It went right on their lot and was gone in a week.

    Hondas retain outstanding value when compared to most other brands. Toyota and Lexus are other brands that retain excellent value when it comes time to trade or sell them. When I was in the car business, I always put more money into a Honda, Lexus or Toyota trades because I wanted those brands on my used car lot.

    I also put extra money into “clean” trades with low mileage. But when it came to Hyundai’s and Kia’s, my hands were tied because of their poor wholesale value at the auctions. I have not kept up to date on current trade values of the Korean manufactured cars, but friends in the business inform me that there is still a reduced wholesale value at the auctions.
    How did the Hyundais and Kias resale compare to the domestics like Ford, Chevy, Dodge?
    Whenever I took in a Hyundai or Kia as a trade, I first called several Hyundai and Kia dealership’s to see if they wanted to buy it - they never bought s used car from me because even they didn’t want it. So I usually ended up wholesaling it at the auction. Many times I couldn’t even wholesale it unless I took a big loss on it. This was 10+ years ago and I don’t think it has changed that much over the years.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    ab348 said:


    On that CT5, since they are doing away with the XTS and I guess the CTS, is that the replacement for both of them? Will that be the only sedan or will Caddy retain the ATS?

    No, they have also announced the CT4, which is a refreshed ATS. You will note that the door shape and side windows are identical to the ATS. Some people do not like the rear end design, but I will wait to see it in person.

    image
    That is the roof the CT5 should have had. Looks very nice, and carries through the Cadillac squared off theme.

    GG GM kept Buick going and deleted Pontiac because real growth for them is in China, and the Chinese love Buicks.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,394
    jmonroe1 said:

    driver100 said:

    tjc78 said:

    @driver100
    Your list is skewed by a fact that others have brought up.... actual transaction price!!

    The Impala and CTS for sure command big discounts from sticker. So, look at it this way:
    Impala - Let's say 40K MSRP. All day long you buy it for 32K.
    Using the 33.5% loss stated in one year, it would be worth $26,600.
    Taking the fact you paid 32K; the net loss is 16.9 % or $5400
    BIG difference.

    I agree, but, I like to use the MSRP as the real gauge because GM thought the car would sell for $40k, when it didn't move they give it a bargain basement price of $32k. It gives me a better idea of what people thought of the car to get the full depreciation value....but, I know, in the back of my mind the car never sold for the full $40k.

    Looking at it another way, the car seems to be a great bargain if you buy a used one and can save 33% after one year..........but if the depreciation is only 17% maybe I am better off buying a Toyota.

    WOW, if that response doesn't sound like, "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up", I don't know what does.

    jmonroe
    Everyone else understood it :D

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,314
    The 4 is sharp looking.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,907
    edited September 4


    ..I think the idea of taking Cadillac into the electric future is the right move. GM does have some electric momentum. Why they only stick their toes in the water is beyond me.
    ...
    I was really shocked when GM closed down Pontiac over Buick. Pontiac promised performance. Buick? Well, they still seem like a Cadillac clone.

    Great pun you worked there!

    And they should have kept Pontiac as a performance division. My impression was they kept Buick as a lower cost luxury brand to compete with (XYZ) brands for their buyers/ drivers. But those two other lines don't have any reason to look elsewhere because they each have their motivations for liking their brand, as do most of us. Seldom do they test drive other brands. That's why I like having folks here, who drive their cars faster than 2 out of 10 the way I drive, drive another brand/model as a test.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,405
    Thing is, Pontiac's image needed a total rebuild, just like Buick's. Pontiac had been emasculated into just a Chevy in a different suit. Their cars in the late '90s/early '00s were pretty awful and had virtually none of the old Pontiac DNA in them (except maybe the Firebird, which was selling in low volumes). When they came out with the GTO, G8 and Solistice they were trying to get that back, but it was probably too late, and the damage to the brand meant they didn't sell much either. Now I will concede that Buick was just as lost in North America if not more so, and what astounds me is that since the reorg GM really hasn't done much to rebuild the brand at all. The Lacrosse was a nice car that they didn't promote much, as was the previous-gen Regal, and volumes weren't great. The Enclave did well for them and I think the Encore sells OK. But there really isn't much awareness of them here any more. In our market up here a dealer could probably not last long with just the Buick/GMC franchises, as there wouldn't be enough volume and probably 95% of it would be GMC.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

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