Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

suydam · October 2019

Excellent visibility has always been a hallmark of Subaru. Glad they’re sticking with it.

stickguy · October 2019

one thing I hate about a lot of the CUVs now. Not just the giant rear blindspots and tiny rear window, is they have oversized, big blocky noses, so feel like driving a PU, where you can't see what's in front of you.

ab348 · October 2019

The ATS has stop/start but it has a button to switch it off on the console. Like the Subie, you need to do it every time you start the car. That's a pain. I eventually got used to the stop/start so I don't bother switching it off any more. It is only slightly intrusive.

corvette · October 2019

laurasdada said:
Invited the boy to an early dinner tomorrow night, watch the Pats game. I wanna see his new 3 in the wild! See if he bought a tire pressure gauge, snow brush/scraper, flashlight... if not, his birthday's coming...

I keep a roadside emergency kit in both cars and a set of extra-long heavy duty jumper cables in the Tahoe. Put the scrapers and a container of salt in them during the winter months.

stickguy · October 2019

I would be fine with a button that you just poked right after starting the car. Becomes muscle memory. Just don't want to have to deal with scrolling through multiple menus. Or more accurately, the wife won't want to. And not sure if she will just get used to it!

roadburner · October 2019

kyfdx said:
I remember when GM started putting ABS on the back of their cars (80s, 90s?).

Everyone has to brag about something.

I liked the Camaros and Corvettes with "Cross Fire Injection" and Oldsmobile's "Twin Dual Cam."

stickguy · October 2019

big stuff back in the 70's was a "5 speed" badge on your Toyota!

ab348 · October 2019

I seem to recall a “Disc Brakes” callout on the tailgate of some pickup models way back when?

nyccarguy · October 2019

Or the Ford Windstall TRACTION CONTROL badge

fintail · October 2019

The 350T thing yes, but IIRC he was 100% behind the XT5/CT6 etc idea, which as a one trick pony, is exactly what he did at Infiniti, who has cars that make Caddy look like the pillar of relevancy. I wouldn't want him managing my car company.

ab348 said:

I think the nomenclature change was post-departure.

xwesx · October 2019

Interesting note about the stop/start. I didn't realize that Subaru did that with their cars. We have had a couple of rentals with that feature - the first being an Escape a couple years ago. It was certainly alarming/annoying at first, but I quickly figured out how to manipulate it to either, 1., not happen just by the way I operated the brake pedal, or 2., turn the engine on just slightly before I anticipated actually needing the engine to operate (such as at red lights). Once I had it sorted out, it didn't bother me at all any more,, and I never bothered hunting for how to turn off the feature.

I agree, though... having the option to turn off something like that, but then having the car auto-reset it to the choice you do NOT want each time you shut off the car, is really, really, REALLY frustrating.

roadburner · October 2019

I think that the Eco [non-permissible content removed] at the EPA now requires stop/start to be on at startup- unlike my X1 and 2er; I think that the feature can be coded to stay off on later BMWs and Minis.

ab348 · October 2019

fintail said:
The 350T thing yes, but IIRC he was 100% behind the XT5/CT6 etc idea, which as a one trick pony, is exactly what he did at Infiniti, who has cars that make Caddy look like the pillar of relevancy. I wouldn't want him managing my car company.

I think the business about naming was very overblown. You had the die-hards who wanted them to bring back old names like Eldorado and Seville which were utterly meaningless, old-fashioned and could be very confusing. Prior to his time they went to the "TS" series for sedans - starting with the STS and DTS, then CTS and ATS. Confusion reigned when they went to the XT5 and XTS, one a SUV and the other a sedan. So there is at least some logic now, with CT# for sedans and XT# for SUVs. The Escalade is the lone holdout because that is the one "wordy" name that has significant brand equity, so they are scared to touch it.

I find it strange how some continue to lambaste Cadillac for its naming convention while other makes like Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Audi and even M-B can be even more confusing.

stickguy · October 2019

my son figured out how to disable it automatically on at least 1 of his Genesis/Audi. If you kept it in a performance driving mode (sport or sport+) it disabled the auto start/stop. Though I would not want my wife driving around at 5,000 RPMs all the time instead.

I assume the Santa Fe has the same set-up as the Gemesis (dash looks similar). Dedicated button by the shift lever. Just get in the habit of pushing that when you put it in gear. Becomes muscle memory, like pushing the button to turn the parking brake off.

ab348 · October 2019

I really believe you do get used to it if my experience is anything to go by. It is jarring at first but that goes away quickly. It is actually nice in certain situations.

tjc78 · October 2019

My Volvo once you turn it off in the settings it’s gone forever... thank goodness

Closing up the campground today. No more weekends away until April! (Well here anyway) Luckily my buddy who has a place here is a pro at winterizing and has the pump for the antifreeze!

stickguy · October 2019

the Sube was not the best I ever drove in terms of not noticing, but far from the worst. Could probably get used to it, though I still believe it will have LT durability issues. Not a problem on a lease, but since I would like to keep that car 10 years, could be an issue!

I did tell the wife that like anything, you will get used to it (along with a whole lot of other differences going to a "modern" car). Turns out it is largely mental. She is worried that it won't turn back on when it needs to, and she will be stuck at a stop not moving! I politely pointed out that she was over thinking this. And that pushing the button was not a big deal (assuming there is one) though she seems to be adamant that it is a huge problem to have to do that. I think she is becoming a Luddite. Maybe should just keep the RDX forever for her, even without navigation of any sort or blind spot, etc., since she seems to know how to use what she needs to. Though can't make a call without picking up her phone to do it, that I know.

kyfdx · October 2019

We had our 2011 X3 up to 94K miles... not one issue with stop/start.

Currently at 36K on the 2017 model, and again.. no issues.

We leave it on, almost all of the time. Except in very slow stop/go traffic (where it would constantly cycle, like a freeway traffic jam)

Ours is easy though.. a button next to the stop/start button. Doesn't re-set, that I've noticed. Stays where you leave it.

corvette · October 2019

nyccarguy said:
Or the Ford Windstall TRACTION CONTROL badge

I think the Freestar and Exploder both had "Advancetrac RSC" badges after Ford scurried to put stability control on their vans and SUVs after the Firestone tire fiasco.

corvette · October 2019

roadburner said:
I think that the Eco [non-permissible content removed] at the EPA now requires stop/start to be on at startup- unlike my X1 and 2er; I think that the feature can be coded to stay off on later BMWs and Minis.

I thought they would run the MPG test with it off, if it doesn't default to "on" at startup, so there's no benefit to the manufacturers installing it unless it defaults to on.

stickguy · October 2019

I think that is it corvette. I can't believe it makes that much of a real world difference, but every ounce counts to the car companies. Restarting all the time has to eat into the savings.

fintail · October 2019

I think Caddy would be well-served using some traditional names. Caddy's differentiation needs to be that it is American - few have even marginally succeeded at truly emulating the Germans (Lexus LS comes closest by far), eventually it becomes time to try a new game. I find Fleetwood to be more compelling than CT6.

I just find it funny that deNysschen played the same game at two companies, both of which now are dearly striving for relevancy. Coincidence? Hard to believe. He's the Brian Burke of the automotive industry suit set - has a few mediocre-at-best laurels, which he rests on heavily, sometimes leaves chaos in his wake, and because of a network of similarly barely filled-out suits, can always find a job and no doubt helps find similar for friends and/or family too.

The Germans may now have numbers more linked to power than displacement, but the basic convention remains the same, MB has been using a number/letter ideal for about 90 years now.

ab348 said:

I think the business about naming was very overblown. You had the die-hards who wanted them to bring back old names like Eldorado and Seville which were utterly meaningless, old-fashioned and could be very confusing. Prior to his time they went to the "TS" series for sedans - starting with the STS and DTS, then CTS and ATS. Confusion reigned when they went to the XT5 and XTS, one a SUV and the other a sedan. So there is at least some logic now, with CT# for sedans and XT# for SUVs. The Escalade is the lone holdout because that is the one "wordy" name that has significant brand equity, so they are scared to touch it.

I find it strange how some continue to lambaste Cadillac for its naming convention while other makes like Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Audi and even M-B can be even more confusing.

carnaught · October 2019

Some stop/starts on cars are more intrusive than others. Surprisingly, my late model Mercedes’ had very noticeable sound and shutter with each re-start.

fintail · October 2019

For stop/start, I know there are MB software hacks to get around it. It doesn't bother me - the button for it is right on the console, and with traffic around here, it might actually save a teacup of fuel now and then. I usually switch it off if I know I won't be stopping for long periods, or will be going quick stop maneuvers like tight turns in garages etc.

marcogallo1986 · October 2019

@ New York car guy! Was An good idea to sit out and just work on the numbers for mom

marcogallo1986 · October 2019

@jmonro. You are to much! Lol lol

stickguy · October 2019

fintail said:
For stop/start, I know there are MB software hacks to get around it. It doesn't bother me - the button for it is right on the console, and with traffic around here, it might actually save a teacup of fuel now and then. I usually switch it off if I know I won't be stopping for long periods, or will be going quick stop maneuvers like tight turns in garages etc.

I am more than fine getting it if the button is right there on the console/center stack to disable. Just one more thing to push on start up. Would end up doing it without even looking or thinking about it.

ab348 · October 2019

nyccarguy said:
Or the Ford Windstall TRACTION CONTROL badge

I knew I wasn't imaging it - discovered that 1971-72 Chevy (and presumably GMC) pickups had this decal applied to the top left of the tailgate if equipped with disc brakes.

stickguy · October 2019

3rd base coaching my SILs attempt to trade in her expiring RDX lease on a new RDX lease. Quite messy financially it seems, though I imagine the dealer would have no problem playing games to make all that work out. She is intending to just extend month to month until year end (allowing for a job change to happen in a couple of weeks) but of course, the dealer would much prefer just get her butt into a new seat instead.

can't wait to see how this one ends up. Though if they let her keep the current car at the same payment (considerably lower than what a new one would go for) it makes sense to keep that as long as possible, and take advantage of year end holiday incentives.

stickguy · October 2019

well, that did not go as planned (but probably as expected). She texted that a deal is inked, will pick up Thursday.

2020 RDX, AWD base (I pushed Tech, but $ ruled). Red over beige (color combo my wife would likely get, could be a problem!). Not sure all the details, but ended up being $379/month, $2,550 total OOP DAS. 36/10 I think. MSRP just about $41k.

Should be a nice upgrade. In since the 2017 she turned in was also a base car, won't be losing anything (and gaining a bunch of safety nannies, laser cruise, and car play giving her the Navi she missed having).

nyccarguy · October 2019

Got an email from the sales woman at the Lexus dealer. Had to check the date to make sure it wasn’t April 1. 36/15K per year with 1st & DMV DAS is $645 per month. I emailed her for a specific breakdown this AM. She’s off today (dealer is closed) and will get back to me tomorrow.

stickguy · October 2019

when I was looking last December, an NX with the tech package (whatever they called the one with roof, BLIS, etc), MSRP around 43K, was $445/mo with $450 DAS (on Honcker). 39/10 I think, maybe 12. So adjust a bit, but price has gone UP UP UP!

Just checked Rodo. In my zip, an NX300 premium, MSRP $46,382, 36/15, 1st payment DAS is $554/month.

same car, sticker $43,082, (moonroof package/comfort package/parking package, the exact way I would have gotten it) is $516 month/ $516 DAS.

so I think you got some room to negotiate.

28firefighter · October 2019

stickguy said:
well, that did not go as planned (but probably as expected). She texted that a deal is inked, will pick up Thursday.

2020 RDX, AWD base (I pushed Tech, but $ ruled). Red over beige (color combo my wife would likely get, could be a problem!). Not sure all the details, but ended up being $379/month, $2,550 total OOP DAS. 36/10 I think. MSRP just about $41k.

Should be a nice upgrade. In since the 2017 she turned in was also a base car, won't be losing anything (and gaining a bunch of safety nannies, laser cruise, and car play giving her the Navi she missed having).

Doesn’t seem so bad assuming a 36/10 or 36/12 lease.

kyfdx · October 2019

28firefighter said:

stickguy said:
well, that did not go as planned (but probably as expected). She texted that a deal is inked, will pick up Thursday.

2020 RDX, AWD base (I pushed Tech, but $ ruled). Red over beige (color combo my wife would likely get, could be a problem!). Not sure all the details, but ended up being $379/month, $2,550 total OOP DAS. 36/10 I think. MSRP just about $41k.

Should be a nice upgrade. In since the 2017 she turned in was also a base car, won't be losing anything (and gaining a bunch of safety nannies, laser cruise, and car play giving her the Navi she missed having).
Doesn’t seem so bad assuming a 36/10 or 36/12 lease.

Agreed

nyccarguy · October 2019

The NX300 is out. She re-drove the XT5 and likes it a lot better.

carnaught · October 2019

nyccarguy said:
The NX300 is out. She re-drove the XT5 and likes it a lot better.

Has your mom been driving a Porsche SUV?

stickguy · October 2019

if the NX was big enough, how about an XT4? That is the comparable model, and definitely still roomier. I liked the one I sat in! the 5 is as big as an RX, though probably more appropriate to replace a Cayan.

stickguy · October 2019

28firefighter said:

stickguy said:
well, that did not go as planned (but probably as expected). She texted that a deal is inked, will pick up Thursday.

2020 RDX, AWD base (I pushed Tech, but $ ruled). Red over beige (color combo my wife would likely get, could be a problem!). Not sure all the details, but ended up being $379/month, $2,550 total OOP DAS. 36/10 I think. MSRP just about $41k.

Should be a nice upgrade. In since the 2017 she turned in was also a base car, won't be losing anything (and gaining a bunch of safety nannies, laser cruise, and car play giving her the Navi she missed having).
Doesn’t seem so bad assuming a 36/10 or 36/12 lease.

from my poking around it really was a very strong deal. I would have grabbed it if I wanted that model.

heard back from her. Deal is in limbo with the finance office. Not sure they will get it through or what will happen (might end up in a cheaper sedan, ILX or TLX, to smoke and mirrors a deal together that AFS will approve). Won't know until Tuesday but the finance guy likes her (3rd time customer) and when is is back in will start working angles, and promises they will get her in "something" so she is not carless.

nyccarguy · October 2019

carnaught said:

nyccarguy said:
The NX300 is out. She re-drove the XT5 and likes it a lot better.
Has your mom been driving a Porsche SUV?

Yes. She currently drives a 2016 V6 Porsche Cayenne

nyccarguy · October 2019

stickguy said:
if the NX was big enough, how about an XT4? That is the comparable model, and definitely still roomier. I liked the one I sat in! the 5 is as big as an RX, though probably more appropriate to replace a Cayan.

She liked the way the NX drove, but thought it might be tight in the back. So she went to drive the Caddy again.

1st time in I don’t know how many years my parents will have 3 GM cars

stickguy · October 2019

using my quick and dirty Rodo research, XT5 @46K is about same lease as the NX300 @46K sticker.

laurasdada · October 2019

I have no issues with the XF start/stop. Disable button on console, so easy to turn off. But, it's enabled upon reboot.

NYC, take mom to Darien, show her an F-Pace... gee, no one saw that coming from me. Treat her to Duchess.

nyccarguy · October 2019

stickguy said:
using my quick and dirty Rodo research, XT5 @46K is about same lease as the NX300 @46K sticker.

Stickguy - I think my Mom does more driving in 6 months than you do in 2 years

Michaell · October 2019

Must be the weekend for 3rd baseman.

Heard from my step son last night. Their inherited '99 Camry has close to 250,000 miles, and it's been nickeling and diming them to death the last 6 months, so it's time to upgrade.

They have been stalking the Hyundai Tucson; they found a used one, but for not a lot more money, they can get new. Found a 2020 Ultimate AWD with a $35K MSRP (don't offer alternatives; I tried and this is what they both want). His dad will help with the down payment to keep the payment reasonable.

The dealer offer and my calculations are about $2000-2500 different. Need to know the final selling price, the APR they are using (not top tier credit) and if there are any junk fees or charges added in. They should wrap up the deal tomorrow, if the numbers all check out.

Depreciation is not a concern, as they'll keep this 10+ years and run it into the ground. The warranty helps in that regard.

corvette · October 2019

Re-downloaded Rodo (I tried the Honcker app and there weren't many offers in my area). More offers, now, but none of them all that great. Still a lot of brands missing. Will probably delete it.

stickguy · October 2019

I have a lot, but as I found with my Acura foray into a deal, they expand my area (outside Philly) to include dealers up in NY (other side of the Hudson, N. of NYC). so that is a lot of dealers to pick from. I have not checked every brand, but there are a lot of them covered.

I use it as a sort of baseline, for a reasonableness check/ballpark. and a way to compare brands/models.

last year I noticed a lot more obscene deals. those days seem to be over.

nyccarguy · October 2019

This should be interesting. The Macan Mom wanted had a sixty something percent residual with an interest rate of almost 7%. This XT5 she likes has a 53% residual and an interest rate of 0.15%.

ab348 · October 2019

FWIW (and I'm obvs. not your mom) I drove both the XT4 and the XT5 for a day (two in the case of the XT4) each and thought the difference was night and day. Loved the XT4, hated the XT5.

corvette · October 2019

I wasn't that familiar with Cadillac's current lineup - looks like they have a set of X1/X3/X5 or Q3/Q5/Q7 competitors now.

tjc78 · October 2019

nyccarguy said:
This should be interesting. The Macan Mom wanted had a sixty something percent residual with an interest rate of almost 7%. This XT5 she likes has a 53% residual and an interest rate of 0.15%.

They typically don't lease that well relative to MSRP. Just a thought... I'd look at an Acadia Denali. 90% of the content and will yield a much better payment relative to MSRP.

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