Midsize Sedans 2.0

nyccarguy · October 2019

roadburner said:
I could possibly be talked into an X3 M40i or X3 M Competition, but I still prefer a smaller coupe that can beat most challengers at the Stoplight Grand Prix.

Do you mean challengers in general or Dodge Challengers?

[Deleted User] · November 2019

nyccarguy said:
@cski

It has a new engine

You need to go into further detail. Did you experience any symptoms?

I have...see next couple of posts. It was metal in the oil pan....so to all kia owners..if your car sounds like grinding metal for 1 to 3 seconds during startup..it is because the "free oil change" oil is GARBAGE, along with the filter. That grinding noise is your pistons shaving the cylinder wall before enough oil pressure has built up to prevent it.
I now ONLY use Mobile 1, a synthetic only filter, and a friction modifier added to the oil in order to permanently coat all the parts...oil pressure or not.

[Deleted User] · November 2019

cski said:

benjaminh said:
The most luxurious car I ever owned was a 1988 Oldsmobile 98, which we bought when it was ten years old. It was pretty much a one-owner car (the original owner had passed it on to his daughter, who was in med school) and it was in very good condition. Outside it looked a lot like this one below, while inside it looked like the image below too—except in blue. Yes, it was the Cadillac of Oldsmobiles, and really close to that in terms of luxury. The fabrics for those couch-like seats were actually as soft and comfortable as they looked. I'm ashamed to say it, but I actually liked touching that upholstery. For the 1985 model year, the Olds 98 was massively downsized on the outside, and lost c.900 lbs of weight, but interior room was similar to the barge-like 1984 model. My 1988 Olds 98 was still a big car, especially compared to a 1988 Accord. But now that my wife and I are considering maybe someday getting a 2018 Honda Accord Hybrid, which seems kinda big, I realized with a shock that in fact it's about the same size as a 1988 Olds 98....

Hey Ben, these cars were everywhere back in the day. My wifes Best Friend had the 89 Buick Electra, with the standard 3.8 liter V6, transverse front drive. It had the red "Rich Corinthian Vinyl" interior. The only problem with some of those cars were the ceramic timing chain sprocket, and therefore timing chain failure.

Hey Ben....my wifes BFF had a LeSabre, not an Electra, and it was white with either Blue or red velour cloth interior. 3 8 liter and the only prob it ever had was the ceramic timing chain sprocket. Couldnt Buick have used ceramic on less likely components to fail???

tjc78 · November 2019

Ford did that BS on the 302 as well. They would wear, them jump a few teeth and the car would run like crap.

[Deleted User] · November 2019

tjc78 said:
Ford did that BS on the 302 as well. They would wear, them jump a few teeth and the car would run like crap.

Oh geez I had a 79 Mustang with a 302 2 barrel in hi school. It had all of 125hp, and it developed a bad heater core, and had so many vacuum leaks that I couldnt track them all. So...my father knew the Boss at the Lorton Prison Auotmotive Training facility. He took my car there and it came back with the A/C fixed, heater core replaced, all the vacuum leaks fixed. Then, a 4 barrel intake and a 650 cfm 4 barrel carb appeared under the new chrome air filter cover. Then...these guys added Cragers with Pirrelli's. The icing on the cake was Shelby sized dual black stripes added to my blood red paint and the paint was cut (compounded) and refurbished. All of it cost my father only $800 for the rims and tires. Having been back to riding the school bus after my first car exploded (80 Fiat Strada. Looked like a Yugo, and NOTHING worked on it (except the engine). The engine oil leaked out after a Jiffy Lube cross threaded my filter. I was crushed.
So, knowing this....My father asked me to come with him to do some chores for one of his friends at a horse farm. I was hired and got to work right away. That's when he gave the nod and the barn door rolled open. He dropped the keys in my hands and it was like OVERHAULIN....It was the nicest thing my dad ever did for me. Then he said: Now your a man; and employed here after school 3 days a week and on weekends. Half your paycheck comes to me until $1000 is paid. $800 for the repairs and your 1st months rent of $100 and $100 deposit.
I learned a valuable life lesson and my love of cars exploded, and shoveling manure and bailing hay became very much less so. It was hard, hot, dirty work that first summer after my senior year. I will always love him and cherished what he did for me.
I paid him every penny.....and after that I got a new job as a line cook. It was EASY compared to 103° days throwing bails of hay in a rolling truck. UGHH.
Good true story though.

[Deleted User] · November 2019

benjaminh said:
Engine failure? That seems very strange these days.

But it makes me glad I own an Acura.

I had to wait almost 5 months for my engine.Kia as alone had to replace 93,000+ engines. Most people think its the 2.0 l turbo motor...but it isnt the same recall. All 93,000 were 2.4 liter units from 11-13. New engine now has 2000 miles on it. I run only Mobile 1 and a highly rated friction modifier to make SURE it does not have that valve noise and the brief piston scrape noise the old engine had when NEW. I am happy to report more horsepower and even tire chirps from 1st to 2nd shift under not floored...but "brisk" acceleration. The suspension continues to confound me. I just cant feel what it's doing under there. Then I saw that Kumho non-SR rated tires were installed instead of the OEM Nexen SR rated tires with a much more aggressive tread pattern and far less leaning side to side. I want my NEXEN's back. Cheap but good tires.

[Deleted User] · November 2019

WHERE DID EVERYONE GO OH OH OH (echoes)
There were hundreds and hundreds of people posting here...I guess everyone else moved on to bigger (SUV's) and better (Audi S3) and pretty much anything is better than my sexy Korean Turdmobile. In Korean I am sure "Turd" means "beautiful and fancy" Why was that was never a successful car name here I will never know.
So, just an update. I am getting my Mobile 1 oil changed, and asked my shop about Liqui Molly Ceratec and got the nod from the head mechanic. He said "works" good to coat engine... use one time every 4 oil changes. No more or plugs can foul.
Great. Solve one problem, create another.
Why have I not sold it? Because the interior cheapness on Dodge Charger V8's (even the 485 hp one) make me wanna vomit. Grey, grey, and more grey. The A/C control knobs bend when lightly squeezed, and no matter how much power it makes, you have to look at the interior. I would rather go slower and have good quality parts that fit.

andres3 · November 2019

cski said:
WHERE DID EVERYONE GO OH OH OH (echoes)
There were hundreds and hundreds of people posting here...I guess everyone else moved on to bigger (SUV's) and better (Audi S3) and pretty much anything is better than my sexy Korean Turdmobile. In Korean I am sure "Turd" means "beautiful and fancy" Why was that was never a successful car name here I will never know.
So, just an update. I am getting my Mobile 1 oil changed, and asked my shop about Liqui Molly Ceratec and got the nod from the head mechanic. He said "works" good to coat engine... use one time every 4 oil changes. No more or plugs can foul.
Great. Solve one problem, create another.
Why have I not sold it? Because the interior cheapness on Dodge Charger V8's (even the 485 hp one) make me wanna vomit. Grey, grey, and more grey. The A/C control knobs bend when lightly squeezed, and no matter how much power it makes, you have to look at the interior. I would rather go slower and have good quality parts that fit.

You can go faster with a quality interior at Audi. Also, their drive trains are very stout.

enf10582 · November 2019

I have the following offers from Dealers on various Sedans. I am somewhat indifferent, but prefer the Accord, all things being equal.

2019 Honda Accord EX $24,300
2019 Hyundai Sonata Limited $21,700
2019 Kia Optima EX $21,000
2019 Ford Fusion SEL $21,500

What are your thoughts on the best car to purchase> I know that the Kia, Hyundai and Ford appear to be great values but am worried about resale, ect.

sda · November 2019

enf10582 said:
I have the following offers from Dealers on various Sedans. I am somewhat indifferent, but prefer the Accord, all things being equal.

2019 Honda Accord EX $24,300
2019 Hyundai Sonata Limited $21,700
2019 Kia Optima EX $21,000
2019 Ford Focus SEL $21,500

What are your thoughts on the best car to purchase> I know that the Kia, Hyundai and Ford appear to be great values but am worried about resale, ect.

For resale and overall satisfaction it's hard to beat the Accord. The Sonata and Optima are nice. I'd skip the Focus but would consider a Fusion with the 2.0 eco.

enf10582 · November 2019

I meant Fusion, not Focus. I drive 12,000-15,000 miles per year and keep the cars for 6-8 years. I am having a hard time paying $3,000 more for an Accord with less features. The Fusion, Optima and Sonata all have leather seats.

stickguy · November 2019

The accord costs enough more you aren’t likely to recoup that down the road.

tjc78 · November 2019

I have to say out of the four, I'd go with the Sonata. Great warranty, good price and like @stickguy said cheaper enough now to offset the lower resale.

The Fusion is a generation behind the others but still a nice ride too.

stickguy · November 2019

Definitely the sonata or Kia. 8 years a 12k/, and you will still have warranty (powertrain) coverage at the end.

andres3 · November 2019

enf10582 said:
I have the following offers from Dealers on various Sedans. I am somewhat indifferent, but prefer the Accord, all things being equal.

2019 Honda Accord EX $24,300
2019 Hyundai Sonata Limited $21,700
2019 Kia Optima EX $21,000
2019 Ford Fusion SEL $21,500

What are your thoughts on the best car to purchase> I know that the Kia, Hyundai and Ford appear to be great values but am worried about resale, ect.

Things are not equal, so you have to ask yourself what do you value the Accord's superiority if not $3K?

Offer $22,000, and if they don't accept, maybe they will counter at an offer still below your "value" threshold?

The value depends on what you like better, and how much that is "worth" it to you.

[Deleted User] · December 2019

sda said:

enf10582 said:
I have the following offers from Dealers on various Sedans. I am somewhat indifferent, but prefer the Accord, all things being equal.

2019 Honda Accord EX $24,300
2019 Hyundai Sonata Limited $21,700
2019 Kia Optima EX $21,000
2019 Ford Focus SEL $21,500

What are your thoughts on the best car to purchase> I know that the Kia, Hyundai and Ford appear to be great values but am worried about resale, ect.
For resale and overall satisfaction it's hard to beat the Accord. The Sonata and Optima are nice. I'd skip the Focus but would consider a Fusion with the 2.0 eco.

My thoughts are based on how you use your car. I went on a hunt back in December 2011, and my car was wrapped up from shipping from Georgia USA to the dealer. I was only there to take my moms 2010 Forte in for an oil change. When they unwrapped my car and I found it was an EX and had already read good reviews from many magazines. Car and Driver had just rated my cars older sister, the Hyundai Sonata, Car of the Year.
Ok so I bought one. Sticker: 24,260
Paid: 22,500 for an EX in Spicy Red.
What was hot 2 me was the look and stance of the car. The Sonata was a . But the Optima has STYLE that endures. The 2011-13 Sonata and Optimas, which are still seen all on the road, usually with 17" alloys, real leather everywhere, even dual exhaust, polished fake wood that is so subtle I didnt notice it until a week later... not one piece of fake chrome. It, with it's real aluminum trim, surpassed all of my quality expectations, and my 22k price included the 1,000 Gold (no co-pay) Kia extended warranty. So. I still have my car, because every other car except the German cars and the the Honda Accord are a bit of a let down. In engine power, no naturally aspirated car in my class had over 185 in 2011.The Accord, Fusion, and Mazda 6 were not for sale yet.

with a new K&N high flow drop in filter with STOCK, REAL, cold air intake, 94 octane fuel, Mobile 1 oil and filter. And....Liqui Molly ceratec friction modifier which I got for $23.00 online, guaranteed to work and made in Germany. BMW uses a version of it in F1 engines.
So. I have 2100 miles on my new engine (replaced under warranty and Enterprise picked an Altima SV for 5 months.)
So if you had bought s 3 year 36k warranty Honda, a new engine was $5000 plus $750 to install it, and $1200 in just the car rental.
So:
1) if you like driving a paid for, stylish car that has 4 years and 40,000 extended warranty AFTER it is paid off, which covers EVERYTHING to 100k, then look no further than Sonata and the Optima.

2) if you want a nice, comparable car to mine, an Accord is always number 1 or 2 on every "top ten mid size sedan" lists all over the internet. However, if there was a blown motor....I hope you have $5,000
available after the paltry 3yr 36k wardant

cski said:

benjaminh said:
Engine failure? That seems very strange these days.

But it makes me glad I own an Acura.
An Acura is on a different class. 4 door entry level luxury sedan...but hell all these 4 door cars have almost the same stuff ..except price. ANYWAY.....
I had to wait almost 5 months for my engine.Kia as alone had to replace 93,000+ engines. Most people think its the 2.0 l turbo motor...but it isnt the same recall. All 93,000 were 2.4 liter units from 11-13. New engine now has 2000 miles on it. I run only Mobile 1 and a highly rated friction modifier to make SURE it does not have that valve noise and the brief piston scrape noise the old engine had when NEW. I am happy to report more horsepower and even tire chirps from 1st to 2nd shift under not floored...but "brisk" acceleration. The suspension continues to confound me. I just cant feel what it's doing under there. Then I saw that Kumho non-SR rated tires were installed instead of the OEM Nexen SR rated tires with a much more aggressive tread pattern and far less leaning side to side. I want my NEXEN's back. Cheap but good tires.

It makes me glad I had a Warranty and it was recalled. My Altima was delivered for a 5 month rental as there were waiting lists for new engines. I have 2 yrs/30k more warranty in order to enjoy my new engine, and to never get the free oil changes ever again. Mobile 1 oil and filter. A scientifically proven 300ml of Ceratec friction reduction ok n coater

andres3 said:

cski said:
WHERE DID EVERYONE GO OH OH OH (echoes)
There were hundreds and hundreds of people posting here...I guess everyone else moved on to bigger (SUV's) and better (Audi S3) and pretty much anything is better than my sexy Korean Turdmobile. In Korean I am sure "Turd" means "beautiful and fancy" Why was that was never a successful car name here I will never know.
So, just an update. I am getting my Mobile 1 oil changed, and asked my shop about Liqui Molly Ceratec and got the nod from the head mechanic. He said "works" good to coat engine... use one time every 4 oil changes. No more or plugs can foul.
Great. Solve one problem, create another.
Why have I not sold it? Because the interior cheapness on Dodge Charger V8's (even the 485 hp one) make me wanna vomit. Grey, grey, and more grey. The A/C control knobs bend when lightly squeezed, and no matter how much power it makes, you have to look at the interior. I would rather go slower and have good quality parts that fit.

You can go faster with a quality interior at Audi. Also, their drive trains are very stout.

It would be my first choice except their maintenance and parts are substantially more $$$. Power window motor $379. My car? $79.99 new

I would love an S3. But I think I would be just as happy with a GTI hatch or Sedan. If it is GTI new with heated seats, plaid interior is not "me" so I would be h add ppy with black suede seats with leather bolsters

enf10582 said:
I have the following offers from Dealers on various Sedans. I am somewhat indifferent, but prefer the Accord, all things being equal.

2019 Honda Accord EX $24,300
2019 Hyundai Sonata Limited $21,700
2019 Kia Optima EX $21,000
2019 Ford Fusion SEL $21,500

What are your thoughts on the best car to purchase> I know that the Kia, Hyundai and Ford appear to be great values but am worried about resale, ect.

Resale
1.Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord

Warranty
1 and 2 tie (they are the same underneath
1. Hyundai Sonata (classy)
2. Kia Optima (the styling department dropped the ball on 2016 + models)

3) Ford Fusion. I have nothing against it but it is not quite the Aston Martin Jr. Ford wanted. Pretty but 175hp is 25 less than mine....unless you buy the top duratech turbo 2.0 engine. Also, Ford is going to stop making cars in the USA except for the Mustang

4) If you like rubbery feel; then the Altima SV or SL is the car for you. Everything works "reasonably well". And it is the star at rental fleet cars. Its rubber band transmission I drove one for 5 months, and couldnt WAIT to get mine back. My six speed auto with "Autostick" × and - detects that I can slap my shifter in is no way a manual.....but with traffic mired roads around Wash DC, I just can't justify a manual.....unless it was a German car. Then automated manual is an option, but the pump that handles the SMG gearbox shifts costs $4500 to replace. That is just the part that shifts it, instead of your foot on the clutch in traffic.

What wouldd I buy today? Mustang 4 cyl 2.3 liter turbo, or certified 5.0 with the larger screen.
OR
GTI (or GLI 4 door Jetta or even an Audi S3) OK, I hope I adequately answered all queries

Ttyl, Chris

nyccarguy · December 2019

My truck went in for it's 5,000 mile "service" which amounts to nothing more than a tire rotation and "fluid top off." I also had to have a 2nd key fob made/programmed. Instead of having my wife pick me up last night and drive me home tomorrow (it is a 45 minute round trip across town & back in rush hour traffic), I decided to rent a car from them for $34 & change for the day. I got a 2019 Camry SE (Black/Grey). I have to say, that I like it. The seats are comfortable & very well bolstered. The ride is composed and there is surprisingly little body roll. The 8 Speed Automatic makes good use of the (buzzy) 4cyl engine's power. It doesn't feel gutless and has acceptable mid-range passing power. Lots of standard "active" safety features including adaptive cruise control which my truck has and I LOVE. Plug the phone into the USB port and Apple Car Play connected right away without even "pairing" my phone. Trip computer said I averaged about 28 mpg on my way in this AM which is a solid 10 mpg more than my V6/Automatic Tacoma.

Since I'm back on the leasing hamster wheel, I'd consider one of these mid sized sedans as long as the price is right in about 21 months from now.

stickguy · December 2019

Thanks Bradd. You just caused Roadburner to have a stroke.

nyccarguy · December 2019

stickguy said:
Thanks Bradd. You just caused Roadburner to have a stroke.

He just unfriended me on Face Book

kyfdx · December 2019

I was in for service on Monday. My son lost a key fob. They don't have them in stock (?!)

Going back Friday. $300

thebean · December 2019

@cski, Honda powertrain warranty is 5 yr/60K miles.

Michaell · December 2019

nyccarguy said:
My truck went in for it's 5,000 mile "service" which amounts to nothing more than a tire rotation and "fluid top off." I also had to have a 2nd key fob made/programmed. Instead of having my wife pick me up last night and drive me home tomorrow (it is a 45 minute round trip across town & back in rush hour traffic), I decided to rent a car from them for $34 & change for the day. I got a 2019 Camry SE (Black/Grey). I have to say, that I like it. The seats are comfortable & very well bolstered. The ride is composed and there is surprisingly little body roll. The 8 Speed Automatic makes good use of the (buzzy) 4cyl engine's power. It doesn't feel gutless and has acceptable mid-range passing power. Lots of standard "active" safety features including adaptive cruise control which my truck has and I LOVE. Plug the phone into the USB port and Apple Car Play connected right away without even "pairing" my phone. Trip computer said I averaged about 28 mpg on my way in this AM which is a solid 10 mpg more than my V6/Automatic Tacoma.

Since I'm back on the leasing hamster wheel, I'd consider one of these mid sized sedans as long as the price is right in about 21 months from now.

When I was in California in August, I had a Camry SE as a rental, as well. I too thought it was a confident vehicle

Michaell · December 2019

Competent, not confident

explorerx4 · December 2019

Looking forward to driving my MKZ tomorrow.
Haven't driven it in least a week and half due to Thanksgiving trip and bad weather after that.

nyccarguy · December 2019

If the rental Camry SE drove as well as it did, Id LOVE to take a Mazda 6 for a spin to see what that’s like.

backy · January 2020

The EPA says the 2020 Forte is "mid-sized", so I'd like to report that I leased a 2020 Forte LXS on New Year's Eve. I was looking to lease a Forte LXS last January, when my 2016 Forte5 was going off lease, but the lease deals weren't very good then. So I bought a loaded, low-miles 2011 Forte EX hatch I found for a good price, intending to keep it for 3 years until I got a long-term vehicle. I was browsing the web on Dec. 29 and saw a year-end lease deal from my local Kia dealer that seemed too good to pass up: $99/month for 24 months, 12k miles/year, with $0 down (but tax, title, license, first payment and "fees" up front). So I checked to make sure the the deal was still good and drove over to the dealer on Monday morning. The deal was as advertised. I could have any color as long as it was blue (which I like anyway, never had a car that color). The catch was that the "tax" was much higher than I thought it should be, so the up-fronts were $1940. The salesman told me they couldn't be wrong on the sales tax, even when I told him that based on the state's tax web site it was indeed wrong. So I asked the finance guy to show me how he calculated the tax, and he ran the numbers and confirmed his tax calculation... which was what I'd estimated it to be. He talked with the GM and found out their "tax" number includes money to drop the payments to $99. OK fine, but why not just say that? I still thought it was a good deal, with the effective payment around $175/month and after factoring in savings I'd have in gas, repairs I know the old Forte needed etc. it was close to $100/month--I figured at worst a wash with keeping my old car for 2 years and selling it, and at best I'd save money. And have a new car. So it was a no-brainer.

I really like my LXS. It's a fairly basic car but good-looking, solid, smooth, roomy, comfortable and has all the convenience and safety features I need, including Apple CarPlay (never had that before), accident avoidance/lane watch/driver attention alert (never had those either). But the best thing is the fuel economy! It has an Atkinson cycle engine and CVT, and it revs really low, e.g. 1600 RPM at 60 MPH. The return trip from the dealer, about 10 miles, netted 48 mpg (highway/city mix). About 60 miles of mixed driving the next day netted me 45 mpg. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to average over 40 mpg in this car. The EPA average is 33 (29/40), but I typically do much better than the EPA average.

One thing the LXS doesn't have, as with most new cars, is a CD player. I have quite a collection of CDs so I really wanted a CD player. That problem was easily remedied by ordering a small portable CD player (about $30 on Amazon) with USB power and an aux cable to tie it into the car's audio system. Got it today and it works great--actually better than the CD player in my old Forte.

Can't wait for the first full work week of the year to get some seat time in my new Forte and check out the fuel economy for my typical driving.

ab348 · January 2020

Congrats! I like the Forte.

tjc78 · January 2020

That problem was easily remedied by ordering a small portable CD player

Everything old is new again... I remember having a portable in the car and a tape adapter!

Congrats on the car. Good deal.

stickguy · January 2020

Definitely a good deal. Clever idea on the CD solution.

andres3 · January 2020

stickguy said:
Definitely a good deal. Clever idea on the CD solution.

Should have thought of that as I have a no-frills computer desktop at home and had to do the same for it; a stand-alone "portable" CD player/reader/writer. Plugs in by USB, works as good as a built-in one. Cost about $30 many years ago too. Amazing what $30 buys these days with certain electronics.

stickguy · January 2020

I just helped a friend of my mother find a used car. She’s old school, and a CD player Was a must have. If I’d thought of this solution, could have pushed some other options for car choices!

Sandman6472 · January 2020

Have always liked the Forte and the new one's are really a step up. Your blue is a little darker than the blue on my VW Golf but nice just the same. Since I've got XM radio, not needing Apple Car play but suspect it'll be in my next vehicle.
The Kia guy got in touch last week to let me know the new Soltis will be here very soon. Am interested after sitting in a new 2020 Hyundai Venue when we bought my kids new 2020 Accent a few weeks ago. It's a pretty small CUV, around 159", but I like it. So we'll have to see. Might just wait till the 2021 model comes out as we're having a wedding in October and being the father of the bride, not quite sure how much she's expecting me to come up with!

backy · January 2020

Did you mean Kia Seltos? That's Kia's version of the Kona, right? I like the looks of it. I drove the Kona SEL and was impressed by it. But if I got a Kona (for my wife) I'd really like the electric model, which isn't sold in Minnesota. The Venue is pretty impressive too for a low-bucks SUV--makes up for no Accent hatch I guess.

Did a 60-mile round trip today in my Forte, about 80% urban freeway/20% city. 20-25 F, stiff wind in one direction. Got 48.8 mpg. Love this car. I'm glad Kia (and Hyundai) haven't given up on the sedan market in the USA.

[Deleted User] · January 2020

sda said:

cski said:

sda said:

berri said:
One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?
Good question. At 80k, the CVT is functioning fine. I spoke with a Service Tech and he said to do CVT fluid changes every 30-40k, which I have done. I have one of those lifetime drivetrain extended warranties that came with the car when I bought it. I don't want to test it and am hoping it is worth more than the paper it is printed on.
Sometimes those lifetime drivetrain warranties do not pay for all of the labor, or have a deductible. I heard this secondhand but maybe the fine print is worth checking into.
BTW, I have never heard of CVT fluid changes. There used to be lube jobs, but almost all cars have sealed ball joints that cant be lubed. If I am supposed to change the grease in the CVT no one has mentioned it at the dealer: and I have been at the dealer more than I would have liked to.
I'm at 90k now and all is well. The CVT in the Accord maybe one of the last non-sealed units. It has a dipstick and the dealer can do a drain and fill or full exchange.

I bought a 2015 Optima SX Turbo recently and confirmed that both my 2012 2.4 and the 2.0T have sealed transmissions. They can be serviced though. I have already had both pumped in with new ATF and out with the old. The turbo was especially clean. A good sign. So, I bought the OEM spoiler and mud guards, and added yellow LED fog lights. (Its Snow White Pearl paint with gloss dark grey/polished aluminum alloys...and the dual sunroofs plus all 4 heated seats are what I have always wanted...but for $10k, not $36k.

This brings me to the last point. I have been recently blinded (today and recently) by new Accord headlights. They are INTENSLY bright, and I feel need to be adjusted because it seems that their high beams are on.
I love HID/LED lights, but these new Accord units are like looking into a UFO.
I kind of miss the less flying saucer shaped previous model, but I am glad that a high power turbo model was added....and UFO's are cool with me so thumbs up on the new Accord overall. It's a nice car in any trim.

stickguy · January 2020

good deal on the SX. how many miles on it?

[Deleted User] · January 2020

sda said:

enf10582 said:
I have the following offers from Dealers on various Sedans. I am somewhat indifferent, but prefer the Accord, all things being equal.

2019 Honda Accord EX $24,300
2019 Hyundai Sonata Limited $21,700
2019 Kia Optima EX $21,000
2019 Ford Focus SEL $21,500

What are your thoughts on the best car to purchase> I know that the Kia, Hyundai and Ford appear to be great values but am worried about resale, ect.
For resale and overall satisfaction it's hard to beat the Accord. The Sonata and Optima are nice. I'd skip the Focus but would consider a Fusion with the 2.0 eco.

The Accord is the best bet. I dont like the current cars styling so much, but what bothers me are the BLINDING HEADLIGHTS. It wasn't a fluke, like the cars position in relation to mine...like it coming down a hill as I was going uphill. It has happened MANY times.
On the Hyundai Sonata Limited for $21,700? It must mean "Limited Options".

Tee hee hee!

[Deleted User] · January 2020

I really love my newsed 2015 Optima SX turbo. (Paint is SWP or Snow White Pearl) It is the last year of: the body style I love, the 275 hp/ 269 lb ft tune engine, and has all of the features I never knew I wanted. Dual sunroofs, all 4 seats are heated..and the fronts are cooled. Black leather interior, Infinity/Uvo system, backup camera, 18" polished aluminum/gloss black and grey rims. 225/45/18 michelin pilot tires. LED wrap around taillights. Front LED DRL strip lights. Tinted windows match gloss black roof.
Dual zone A/C.
Added: 2000 to 2500 lumen ea. fog lights. (5000 total).
Factory rear lip spoiler (really makes the car)
Mud guards (dealer wanted $99 for them. I got all 4 of them from Korea for $35.
In sealed Kia brand bags!
10" Pioneer 1100 watt max/350 watt rms
Powered sub *class D amp. This complements the 8" Infinity sub in the rear deck, and helps balance the sound. It sounded like all the music came from the front until I added the sub. Just enough power for adult interior listening, not booming out the neighbors.
Also, 2 car discount means it only added $35 a month for BOTH CARS to my $100 a month insurance. (Prog). So $136mo.
It handles SO MUCH BETTER than my 2012 does. I do like the honest power from the 2012, but the 2015 has that turbo torque I love. Three driving modes (eco/Sport/touring) gave me SAME mpg. 19 city, 27 hwy. Best I could manage.
Thanks and I welcome any input. Including....Stop talking about it!!!!
-Chris
PS: The UVO system has the smaller 5" screen. Irritating. It's a touch screen too? Touch screen is good though. It only takes 1 touch to activate a screen "button". Not 10 presses like some systems. I really would like the 7" screen though. It costs $170 for used on eBay.
It is fairly complicated. I DO like how it reads texts out loud and I can respond, but UVO does not understand my NOVA English!!!??? (NO-VA means "no-go" in Spanish). I wonder what name Chevy called the Nova in Mexico/Spain??? Lol.

!!!

[Deleted User] · January 2020

thebean said:
@cski, Honda powertrain warranty is 5 yr/60K miles.

Thanks....didnt know. Really sorry!!!

[Deleted User] · January 2020

stickguy said:
good deal on the SX. how many miles on it?

88k, but includes "lifetime" powertrain warranty (certified/CPO car). Formerly a lease. Owned by 54 year old woman, 1 owner $10,500. Ourisman warranty is 1 year, 12,000 mile Bum2Bum warranty. No deductible. I have all of the service records. All service performed at dealer, and at great expense it seems. I am glad I dont have to worry about new car door dings, stress over dirt, etc. Easy purhase experience. Car books for $14,250 Found an old used car window sticker for $13,900!!!

[Deleted User] · January 2020

backy said:
The EPA says the 2020 Forte is "mid-sized", so I'd like to report that I leased a 2020 Forte LXS on New Year's Eve. I was looking to lease a Forte LXS last January, when my 2016 Forte5 was going off lease, but the lease deals weren't very good then. So I bought a loaded, low-miles 2011 Forte EX hatch I found for a good price, intending to keep it for 3 years until I got a long-term vehicle. I was browsing the web on Dec. 29 and saw a year-end lease deal from my local Kia dealer that seemed too good to pass up: $99/month for 24 months, 12k miles/year, with $0 down (but tax, title, license, first payment and "fees" up front). So I checked to make sure the the deal was still good and drove over to the dealer on Monday morning. The deal was as advertised. I could have any color as long as it was blue (which I like anyway, never had a car that color). The catch was that the "tax" was much higher than I thought it should be, so the up-fronts were $1940. The salesman told me they couldn't be wrong on the sales tax, even when I told him that based on the state's tax web site it was indeed wrong. So I asked the finance guy to show me how he calculated the tax, and he ran the numbers and confirmed his tax calculation... which was what I'd estimated it to be. He talked with the GM and found out their "tax" number includes money to drop the payments to $99. OK fine, but why not just say that? I still thought it was a good deal, with the effective payment around $175/month and after factoring in savings I'd have in gas, repairs I know the old Forte needed etc. it was close to $100/month--I figured at worst a wash with keeping my old car for 2 years and selling it, and at best I'd save money. And have a new car. So it was a no-brainer.

I really like my LXS. It's a fairly basic car but good-looking, solid, smooth, roomy, comfortable and has all the convenience and safety features I need, including Apple CarPlay (never had that before), accident avoidance/lane watch/driver attention alert (never had those either). But the best thing is the fuel economy! It has an Atkinson cycle engine and CVT, and it revs really low, e.g. 1600 RPM at 60 MPH. The return trip from the dealer, about 10 miles, netted 48 mpg (highway/city mix). About 60 miles of mixed driving the next day netted me 45 mpg. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to average over 40 mpg in this car. The EPA average is 33 (29/40), but I typically do much better than the EPA average.

One thing the LXS doesn't have, as with most new cars, is a CD player. I have quite a collection of CDs so I really wanted a CD player. That problem was easily remedied by ordering a small portable CD player (about $30 on Amazon) with USB power and an aux cable to tie it into the car's audio system. Got it today and it works great--actually better than the CD player in my old Forte.

Can't wait for the first full work week of the year to get some seat time in my new Forte and check out the fuel economy for my typical driving.

Hi Backy!
That sounds great! My mom has a 2010 Forte EX and so far its bulletproof, Athough she is burning or losing some free oil change oil. Dealer oil is LETHAL
Does the 'S' in LXS stand for Safety or Sport....or both? I really want to know. Not being a smart a#$ or anything.
MPG is way better than in any Kia we own by double. Even in my moms Forte its double, so Northern Virginia teaffic really does cut fuel economy to below standard by a lot.

[Deleted User] · January 2020

thebean said:
@cski, Honda powertrain warranty is 5 yr/60K miles.

Really sorry! I didnt know it had been increased. My bad!

backy · January 2020

cski said:

Hi Backy!
That sounds great! My mom has a 2010 Forte EX and so far its bulletproof, Athough she is burning or losing some free oil change oil. Dealer oil is LETHAL
Does the 'S' in LXS stand for Safety or Sport....or both? I really want to know. Not being a smart a#$ or anything.
MPG is way better than in any Kia we own by double. Even in my moms Forte its double, so Northern Virginia teaffic really does cut fuel economy to below standard by a lot.

I don't know what "S" in LXS stands for. Could be Sport; they dropped the S trim for 2020. Anyway, I know you wanted more info on what's on my LXS. It's pretty simple, just the LXS trim, no options. But I think it's well equipped for a base model economy car. Has a big touch screen (I guess most new cars have that nowadays, right?), manual HVAC (with simple controls, which I actually prefer over auto climate control, which my 2011 Forte had and I set it on Manual), Bluetooth with voice commands, Apple CarPlay (and whatever the Android equivalent is), 16" alloys (pretty snazzy looking for a base model IMO), seat height adjusters for driver AND passenger (rare in a basic car), a HUUUGE trunk (15.3 cu. ft.), DRLs (styled to look like fogs, which is kinda cool, and my other two Fortes didn't have DRLs although both had fogs, go figure), automatic headlights, trip computer, 4-speaker stereo (no Sirius XM but I never used it much), and a good complement of safety gear (pre-collision and braking, lane departure warning and steering, driver attention alert). The lane departure steering is kinda weird in that I can feel the car steering itself around curves. I haven't let go of the wheel to see what would happen, but it definitely is steering to follow curves. Also it nudges me back in the lane if I'm not steering straight enough, after bleeping if I touch the line. I haven't tested the pre-collision warning and braking yet and don't intend to.

Beyond the features, it's a real solid little (ok not so little) car. No hint of a rattle or squeak. I think the interior is nicely done too, for an inexpensive car--hints of Audi-on-a-budget. Plastics abound but they don't look cheap. The wheel, even with no leather cover, could have been pulled off a higher class Kia (maybe it was?). Seats are firm but comfortable, lots of room in the rear (but no rear seat center armrest, as this is the base model). It's a cheap car but doesn't look/feel cheap to me. I think I could be happy with it beyond the 2 year lease, so who knows, I could buy it out after the lease is over.

And I might just do that if I keep getting MPG like I've been getting so far. It's almost too good to be true, but the gas gauge is mirroring what I'm seeing on the trip computer. My last trip beyond a mile or so was a 48 mile round trip I make a lot, 95% urban freeway. I could do mid-to-upper 30s on my 2011 Forte and could hit 40 on my 2016 Forte5 (which was rated 33 on the highway). The 2020 is rated 40 on the highway. On that last trip, in good weather for January (20s), I got 51 mpg. My son asked me if I got the hybrid Forte.

I told him they don't make one.

Can't wait for winter to be done so I can keep the blue paint clean. Hard to keep a car clean in the winter in Minnesnowta.

benjaminh · February 2020

As we know, sales of midsize sedans have been falling for years, but the the surviving midsize cars are all good. The newest is the all-new 2020 Sonata. All the tests I've seen so far have been loaded models, but Joe Raiti of Raiti's Rides tests in this video a base model 2020 Sonata SE with an msrp of c.$24k. He makes a mistake in his video, however, saying that the transmission is a CVT, when in fact it's an 8-speed automatic. Like the Accord this car seems like it's almost full size inside and in terms of trunk volume, but it gets an impressive 38 mpg highway. I'm guessing that in a few months big discounts might be available on the 2020 Sonata that'll make it a bargain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2gjtYVLxfk

benjaminh · February 2020

And here's a detailed review of the Limited 2020 Sonata:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPjsXDIISp8

stickguy · February 2020

I even checked on the Hyundai site to confirm. SE listed as the 8 speed AT. Not sure where he got that from. Even the 2019 version was a normal AT.

but a positive review. I have no need for another large (to me) sedan, but this seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck. Would never buy one in this rental spec of course! But if you want basic transportation, a good deal.

ab348 · February 2020

If you aren't a car rental company, I wonder how many customers there are for a rental-spec midsize sedan these days.

benjaminh · February 2020

ab348 said:
If you aren't a car rental company, I wonder how many customers there are for a rental-spec midsize sedan these days.

Perhaps it's for people who otherwise might buy a used car. The msrp on the base Sonata SE is $24k, but we can imagine that in a few months discounts might push that down to c.$19k, which might be roughly the same price as a 3-year old base Accord LX. The Accord LX in some ways is a better car, but it lacks AndroidAuto/CarPlay, would be almost out of its warranty, etc.

tjc78 · February 2020

Someone who needs the room more than the features. If you have a 20K budget, do you go with a loaded small car or base large car.

Back when I bought my 03 Avalon, I could have a hard loaded Camry for the same price as my mid-level Avalon. It was an XL but had a lot of options checked that brought it close to an entry level XLS.

benjaminh · February 2020

Right now it's possible to lease the midsize Acura TLX base model (msrp c.$34k) for only a little more than a base model Honda Accord LX (msrp c.$25k)....

https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/current-offers?zipcode=40205

Here's the Accord LX offer:
$249 a month for 36 months with $3199 downpayment = $12,163 over 3 years

https://www.acura.com/tools/current-luxury-car-suv-offers-leasing

Acura's offer for the base model TLX:
$279 a month for 36 months with $2499 downpayment = 12,543 over 3 years

And so for just $380 over 3 years, or $10.56 a month, you can move up from a regular car to an entry-level luxury car. Of course you also have to pay for premium gas and pay a little more for insurance too, but overall it's a pretty good deal on a nicer car.

stickguy · February 2020

well, you don't have to pay for premium. it is recommended not required.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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