Real-World Trade-In Values

nyccarguy · January 2020

squirreljam said:
Wow, haven't posted in this thread in possibly 10 years, since car_man gave me galves on my TSX handshaker . Pretty surprised I remembered my pw...

Anyway, qbrozen, what would you say is value of a 2019 Odyssey EX with 1K miles in st louis area MO? Cert. of origin is dated 7/29/19. Local private party guy is asking 30,500 on CL, feels high, but this place was always my turn-to for answers on this stuff.

Thanks very much!

@qbrozen is the new @CarMan@Edmunds

squirreljam · January 2020

kyfdx said:
@squirreljam It's only been 16 years.. How've you been?!

Car_man has only been gone since 2013.

Yeah, time flies - I guess I keep cars longer than I ever thought I would.

Interesting story on my 04 Acura TSX 6mt bought new in june '03. 18-19 months ago I've stretched the brakes as far as I can, so settle in for a brake job - rotors are grooved pretty well, so I have to grind off the lip to swing caliper out of the way. I wonder when the last set of pads was so I look in my file and can't find any receipts or shop work. Turns out the original pads had made it 15+ years and 145K! Car also has original clutch; now that my 16 year old, who wasn't born when I bought the car, is driving it, that clutch is likely to going to need replacement sooner vs later.
Pretty good example of Japanese-built low volume quality car...

jmonroe · January 2020

squirreljam said:

kyfdx said:
@squirreljam It's only been 16 years.. How've you been?!

Car_man has only been gone since 2013.
Yeah, time flies - I guess I keep cars longer than I ever thought I would.

Interesting story on my 04 Acura TSX 6mt bought new in june '03. 18-19 months ago I've stretched the brakes as far as I can, so settle in for a brake job - rotors are grooved pretty well, so I have to grind off the lip to swing caliper out of the way. I wonder when the last set of pads was so I look in my file and can't find any receipts or shop work. Turns out the original pads had made it 15+ years and 145K! Car also has original clutch; now that my 16 year old, who wasn't born when I bought the car, is driving it, that clutch is likely to going to need replacement sooner vs later.
Pretty good example of Japanese-built low volume quality car...

WOW, 145K miles on brake pads. I never heard of that before. Obviously you didn't use the brake pedal very much. Now tell us how many accelerator pedals you replaced.

jmonroe

kyfdx · January 2020

Tires/suspension get a lot of use, when you don't use the brakes. That's the most fun way to drive!

stickguy · January 2020

Pads should last longer on a stick Shift car.

budsbrother · January 2020

Looking for auction value for a 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6 sedan. Black with beige leather, moonroof, no Nav and 22,000 miles. Nice shape, couple tiny chips here or there. Never hit. New England area. Speaking of brakes, my 89 Mustang GT still has its original brakes, but there's only 57,000 miles on it.

qbrozen · January 2020

budsbrother said:
Looking for auction value for a 2017 Honda Accord EX-L V6 sedan. Black with beige leather, moonroof, no Nav and 22,000 miles. Nice shape, couple tiny chips here or there. Never hit. New England area. Speaking of brakes, my 89 Mustang GT still has its original brakes, but there's only 57,000 miles on it.

Auction value? $18k-$18.5k.
knock off about $1k for trade-in value.

budsbrother · January 2020

Thank you, sir! The lease on the Accord is ending soon and the current buyout is $17,900. I've been happy with the car, so buying it out for wholesale value is like icing on the cake. As for the Mustang, it's safely tucked away for the winter. They are not a car to be driven when there is snow on the ground. It makes them go sideways way too easily!

qbrozen · January 2020

budsbrother said:
Thank you, sir! The lease on the Accord is ending soon and the current buyout is $17,900. I've been happy with the car, so buying it out for wholesale value is like icing on the cake. As for the Mustang, it's safely tucked away for the winter. They are not a car to be driven when there is snow on the ground. It makes them go sideways way too easily!

If you like it, that's a no brainer as a purchase.

My Charger goes out only when I know the road is free of salt.

xwesx · January 2020

jmonroe said:

Nope, no dining room suite yet and no dog house either. I'm pretty good, huh?

jmonroe

True master at work.

xwesx · January 2020

steine13 said:

qbrozen said:
Mid $5k at auction, so it is suspicious
I drove it this morning and put $500 down, pending a mechanic's check tomorrow. No check engine light, no obvious issues, aside from the most awful racket upon startup from the starter/engine after sitting a bit.

It calms right down, though. A little more road noise than my 2014 Outback, but otherwise very familiar. BTW I'm not sure about the cylinder head issue by 2012... I "think" this was mostly solved in the Outback by then, but I know nothing about the Forester engines. The transmission is the older 5sp unit, not the later 6MT. Both work OK, neither is a treat.

I shall report after the checkup.
Thanks -m

Just a reminder on the 2012 Forester: That was the early days of the FB25 engine. All are under a class-action settlement warranty from the manufacturer, but I believe there is a 100,000 mile limit on them. They generally drank oil with a ravenous appetite due to ring issues with the very thin and newly required 0w-20 oil. Our 2013 Forester required this work done, which involves short block replacement.

The down side, if not done, is that the work is very expensive if not under the class-action warranty (just the parts are a bit scary in price), and, while the car will continue to work if you are willing to watch the dipstick closely, all that oil going out the tailpipe is not going to do your oxygen sensors or catalytic converter any favors in terms of life expectancy.

As far as start-up noise, even after the replacement, it is very noisy upon initial start up, but it settles in to quiet purring within a few seconds. This behavior is distinctly different than the older EJ25 in my experience.

In theory, head gaskets are not an issue on this car, yet the manufacturer still calls for use of the "Subaru Blue" special coolant that comes equipped with StopLeak.

steine13 · January 2020

xwesx said:

Just a reminder on the 2012 Forester: That was the early days of the FB25 engine. All are under a class-action settlement warranty from the manufacturer, but I believe there is a 100,000 mile limit on them. They generally drank oil with a ravenous appetite due to ring issues with the very thin and newly required 0w-20 oil.

[..] StopLeak.

LOL Stopleak in a 2012.

Thanks, @xwesx.

The oil leak has supposedly been repaired and the car is offered for sale here:
https://lansing.craigslist.org/ctd/d/lansing-2012-subaru-forester/7052414015.html
I predict it'll be gone within the week. The ice storm might slow things down a touch.

"Reminder" -- well it'd be a reminder if I'd ever known any of this. Yikes.
Ever notice how new cars are so easy to buy, and used cars require a dissertation?

And yeah "drank oil" -- I mentioned the exhaust pipe had a little greasiness in it.
Best to move on.
cheers -mathias

skarface · January 2020

What do you think auction, trade in, and private party values for a gray on black 2014 Acura ILX tech package, good condition, newish tires, no issues, 90k miles, DC area should be?

xwesx · January 2020

steine13 said:

"Reminder" -- well it'd be a reminder if I'd ever known any of this. Yikes.
Ever notice how new cars are so easy to buy, and used cars require a dissertation?

And yeah "drank oil" -- I mentioned the exhaust pipe had a little greasiness in it.
Best to move on.
cheers -mathias

Yes, I wrote all that before I read your update. I briefly forgot that I took a three-week hiatus from Edmunds, and things move quickly around here!

When I read the part about the greasiness in the tailpipe, I cringed a little; that pipe is likely to have more buildup the closer it is to the engine. That, combined with additional heat, makes for a nice, fatal coating after a time.

qbrozen · January 2020

skarface said:
What do you think auction, trade in, and private party values for a gray on black 2014 Acura ILX tech package, good condition, newish tires, no issues, 90k miles, DC area should be?

$9k/$8k/$11k

skarface · January 2020

How a

qbrozen said:

skarface said:
What do you think auction, trade in, and private party values for a gray on black 2014 Acura ILX tech package, good condition, newish tires, no issues, 90k miles, DC area should be?
$9k/$8k/$11k

Thanks! How about a 2011 Acura MDX Advance with 130K in good condition?

explorerx4 · January 2020

@skarface,
To make it easy, post all the info for the MDX, including location.

qbrozen · January 2020

skarface said:
How a
qbrozen said:

skarface said:
What do you think auction, trade in, and private party values for a gray on black 2014 Acura ILX tech package, good condition, newish tires, no issues, 90k miles, DC area should be?
$9k/$8k/$11k
Thanks! How about a 2011 Acura MDX Advance with 130K in good condition?

well, making a lot of assumptions, such as this is still in DC, good condition means no past paintwork and no current body damage, and its up to date with maintenance, you'd be $7500/$6500/$9500.

steine13 · January 2020

Do we have time for another quick one before tax season hits?
Just got a postdoc into a 2010 Focus SES , 150k, clean but rocker panel rust, 1 owner commuter car, for $1975. Quickest deal ever.

Now we have this, which will take a little more care:
2011 Subaru Impreza hatch automatic 2.5 l engine 120k
in blue.
steel wheels w/ covers, probably the base version.
JF1GH6A63BH808057

Inside not dirty but not revolting; hasn't been cleaned yet.
Drives great, lots of creaky noises from the dash on the right hand side only. Weird.
I'll look again but I see no evidence of body work.

Shlock tires witih a lot of tread, which is good and bad

Doesn't feel loved but seems solid.
thanks in advance -mathias

qbrozen · January 2020

huh? you didn't buy that Focus, did you?? Rocker rust is kiss of death on a unibody. Worthless, IMHO.

What is the history on the Subie? When was T-belt done? When were head gaskets last done? This is a vehicle where a good 50% of the value will be based on repair history.

steine13 · January 2020

Just back from the test drive.

No price yet, no title yet, I don't think the dealer knows what he'll pay for it.
The oil change sticker is from a Subaru dealership, so here's hoping there's a record. No paperwork with the car. No frame work that I could detect but bolts turned on the quarter panels, so maybe there's a story.
It drives really nice, though, and the 'customer' is interested. I would be, too, if I needed wheels.

As far as the Focus, I couldn't see the rocker panel issue in the dark because my phone crapped out in the cold, so no light. By the time I saw it, I already had the car, so I showed it to the post-Doc, who really liked everything else and took it to his mechanic who pronounced it safe and a good deal and told him to buy it. Which he did. He's got 18 more months then back home to la belle France, so what the heck.

Michiganders have a high tolerance for rust from long habituation.
Heck, I just work here.

Next in the pipeline is an 06 Impreza hatch stick from Rhode Island of all paces, that looks remarkably rust free... but this one's going to be all in the condition, obviously. From the outside, it looked to have a really clean interior, so maybe that'll find a home with the faithful...

thanks for the help & feedback!
-mathias

qbrozen · January 2020

What the heck are you up to? Running a Hoopties R Us?

steine13 · January 2020

Helping colleagues obtain reasonably priced transportation. Nobody else to do it and can't bear the thought to have them wind up at sone nasty place. Keeps the lab running smoothly. Weather will hit, then tax time comes and it's over again for a few months.
No money motive, if you're wondering.

28firefighter · January 2020

steine13 said:
Helping colleagues obtain reasonably priced transportation. Nobody else to do it and can't bear the thought to have them wind up at sone nasty place. Keeps the lab running smoothly. Weather will hit, then tax time comes and it's over again for a few months.
No money motive, if you're wondering.

You're a good man - you're in a tough price point to try and find reliable transportation and you're saving folks from getting seriously burned.

qbrozen · January 2020

I think I'd likely take a high-mileage G35x over a high-mileage Subaru. Just a thought, if you can find any. Too many big problems with most subarus as they get up there. A G35x is damned near bulletproof in comparison.

stickguy · January 2020

and not like they are likely driving a ton of miles, so gas isn't a big concern.

these also kinda sound like used Malibu types.

corvette · January 2020

It's a tough decision-making process, especially when some of your colleagues are on temporary assignments.

iamgort · January 2020

I've got a 2018 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD (navy blue) 12,900 miles w/apple carplay, bose, nav. All wonderful condition. Wondering what a reasonable trade expectation is. 20171 zip code.

28firefighter · January 2020

iamgort said:
I've got a 2018 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD (navy blue) 12,900 miles w/apple carplay, bose, nav. All wonderful condition. Wondering what a reasonable trade expectation is.

Where?

corvette · January 2020

28firefighter said:

iamgort said:
I've got a 2018 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD (navy blue) 12,900 miles w/apple carplay, bose, nav. All wonderful condition. Wondering what a reasonable trade expectation is.
Where?

Washington DC based on post history.

iamgort · January 2020

28firefighter said:

iamgort said:
I've got a 2018 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD (navy blue) 12,900 miles w/apple carplay, bose, nav. All wonderful condition. Wondering what a reasonable trade expectation is.
Where?

Sorry updated post. Forgot that.

xwesx · January 2020

Fair market for a 2012 Chevy Camaro Transformers Edition?
3,300 miles
Rally Yellow With Black Stripes / Black
6.2L V8 16V MPFI OHV
6-Speed Automatic with TapShift / RWD
One owner, good condition. No hits/runs/errors per Carfax.

Wisconsin

corvette · January 2020

xwesx said:
Fair market for a 2012 Chevy Camaro Transformers Edition?

No idea of actual value, but as a theoretical buyer, I'd love the low miles, just not nearly enough to pay $31.5k + tax for an eight year old muscle car.

qbrozen · January 2020

iamgort said:
I've got a 2018 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD (navy blue) 12,900 miles w/apple carplay, bose, nav. All wonderful condition. Wondering what a reasonable trade expectation is. 20171 zip code.

Mid $28k range

qbrozen · January 2020

xwesx said:
Fair market for a 2012 Chevy Camaro Transformers Edition?
3,300 miles
Rally Yellow With Black Stripes / Black
6.2L V8 16V MPFI OHV
6-Speed Automatic with TapShift / RWD
One owner, good condition. No hits/runs/errors per Carfax.

Wisconsin

Well, as far as Manheim is concerned, it is just an SS. As such, even with those miles, it is $20k. So figure $23k retail.

xwesx · January 2020

qbrozen said:

xwesx said:
Fair market for a 2012 Chevy Camaro Transformers Edition?
3,300 miles
Rally Yellow With Black Stripes / Black
6.2L V8 16V MPFI OHV
6-Speed Automatic with TapShift / RWD
One owner, good condition. No hits/runs/errors per Carfax.

Wisconsin

Well, as far as Manheim is concerned, it is just an SS. As such, even with those miles, it is $20k. So figure $23k retail.

Okay, thanks. That's what I suggested to my brother, who agreed, but said he was still willing to pay extra... he just felt that their asking was still way too high.

steine13 · January 2020

Thanks for the discussion and support, guys.

Just to illustrate a bit more: Having made the questionable decision to become a physicist in basic research, one finds a job market that isn't all that big in some sense, while in another it's as big as it can get -- truly global. So a doctorate in Europe, followed by a post-doctoral stint in North America, is almost be a rite of passage.

Postdoc pay ain't much. An engineer right out of college will probably do better. Fresh Ph.D.'s are a dime a dozen. It just seems like such a great career choice because the guys giving the talks later in life are the ones who made it, not the adjunct professors at the local college, making $28k a year. But I digress.

Of course, the new person will have zero credit, and the insurance alone for a 10-year-old car is $3,000 per year here in Michigan. Therefore we're looking for hoopties that don't need collision insurance -- this is after I explain 'no-fault' to my incredulous audience -- and often the new person has to work a few months to save up a couple, three grand.

Finding cars is easy, what with Craigslist and Facebook, but with the internet working its magic, every private seller is an expert, full of kbb and carfax goodness, and yet without a clue. I like to tell people i've checked out a thousand cars in the last decade, and all but one were in excellent condition.

That's why I'm happy to have a reasonable dealer to work with, essentially a wholesaler with a retail lot, thus one fewer person to get paid. He's exclusive to the big Subaru/VW/Audi/Hyundai dealer, so that's an interesting mix of incoming cars. About half are rats, but plenty of decent ones in the mix.

Just as an example, right now he has a clean 2012 Avalon, white over blue leather, 120k miles. Only reason it's not at the used side of the mothership is it has fender bender on the carfax, no big thing. $6,900 asking price and this thing looks like new. That may not be a 'cheap' car but that's totally reasonable. I suggested it to my next 'customer' but she won't drive a 'large' car. Oh well.

cheers -mathias

cdnpinhead · January 2020

Back when I worked for a living, there was this thing called "piled higher and deeper." Where I used to work, results were what mattered in a hardware-oriented industry, not the degree one held. My experience has been that the ivory tower guys didn't have much practical knowledge, nor were they able to accomplish much beyond PowerPoint presentations.

That used to matter, but these days, not so much. Stay diversified.

sda · January 2020

Wow, $3k a year for insurance on a beater. That’s highway robbery.

steine13 · January 2020

@sda
>> highway robbery

Pure Michigan™
Speaking of which, have I shared this Pure Michigan
moment from last summer? Can't complain, the rivets are still holding the new plate to the old one. Every problem has an engineering solution!

@qbrozen
>> I think I'd likely take a high-mileage G35x over a high-mileage Subaru. Just a thought, if you can find any. Too many big problems with most subarus as they get up there. A G35x is damned near bulletproof in comparison.

It is kind of funny that out of maybe 15 cars, there is indeed a 2005 G35 sitting at Dave's lot. The leather in the driver's seat is a bit ripped, and it wasn't exactly clean when they got it, but he said "it drives really nice." I haven't looked it over, thinking it was too far gone. You're making me reconsider. Nissans of any stripe are basically niche products north of I-80, so I know little about them. Also I'm kind of aiming for a $5k price for a new employee on a permanent position.

If it weren't for the insurance/credit issue, I'd be suggesting a new Corolla hatch. Problem solved for the next 15 years.

28firefighter · January 2020

steine13 said:
@sda
>> highway robbery

Pure Michigan™
Speaking of which, have I shared this Pure Michigan
moment from last summer? Can't complain, the rivets are still holding the new plate to the old one. Every problem has an engineering solution!

@qbrozen
>> I think I'd likely take a high-mileage G35x over a high-mileage Subaru. Just a thought, if you can find any. Too many big problems with most subarus as they get up there. A G35x is damned near bulletproof in comparison.

It is kind of funny that out of maybe 15 cars, there is indeed a 2005 G35 sitting at Dave's lot. The leather in the driver's seat is a bit ripped, and it wasn't exactly clean when they got it, but he said "it drives really nice." I haven't looked it over, thinking it was too far gone. You're making me reconsider. Nissans of any stripe are basically niche products north of I-80, so I know little about them. Also I'm kind of aiming for a $5k price for a new employee on a permanent position.

If it weren't for the insurance/credit issue, I'd be suggesting a new Corolla hatch. Problem solved for the next 15 years.

If that’s a G35x I’d jump on it.

corvette · January 2020

I still love my G37 a year later. Even for a non-enthusiast who wants something appliance-like, it checks a lot of boxes. Reliable powertain and electronics, comfortable, quiet, suspension isn't too stiff. They'd have no idea of its capabilities until they goosed the throttle or forgot to slow down before a curve.

stickguy · January 2020

unless there is something seriously wrong with it that looks like a steal.

explorerx4 · January 2020

I'm gong to guess if that person is a grad student from europe, not making a lot of money, they would rather something more fuel efficient than the G35.

corvette · January 2020

Maybe, depends on how far they're driving. I have an extremely short commute, so MPG doesn't really matter as much to me as it does to a lot of people.

steine13 · January 2020

She's a fulltime employee, and if you're from anywhere in Europe, gas is free in America. We tend to prefer small cars from habit and because we don't like wasting energy, but money has little to do with it. Plus the way you're expected to work, there's not a lot of time left for road trips. One reason for the Corolla suggestion.

To give an extreme example, my friend and colleague in the next office lives a good two miles off campus, like I do, and he bikes (or walks) every day. His 2004 Subaru Outback, which he bought new, has 28k miles

qbrozen · January 2020

How many miles on that G?

jmonroe · January 2020

steine13 said:
@sda
>> highway robbery

Pure Michigan™
Speaking of which, have I shared this Pure Michigan
moment from last summer? Can't complain, the rivets are still holding the new plate to the old one. Every problem has an engineering solution

Stop complaining. It could have been worse...like having to replace the trunk lid.

jmonroe

jpp75 · January 2020

corvette said:
I still love my G37 a year later. Even for a non-enthusiast who wants something appliance-like, it checks a lot of boxes. Reliable powertain and electronics, comfortable, quiet, suspension isn't too stiff. They'd have no idea of its capabilities until they goosed the throttle or forgot to slow down before a curve.

My 2012 G37x was one of my favorite cars, your description is spot on.

steine13 · January 2020

qbrozen said:
How many miles on that G?

I hate to leave a question dangling. I took a look at it today in the sun, but with snow on the ground. Couldn't get a great look but it seemed remarkably clean. Then I grew a brain and learned how to piggyback on a used-car dealer's "autocheck" report by substituting the VIN. Not the same as carfax but better than nothing. This G35 comes to us from Ann Arbor [spits on floor #MSU/UofMRivalry] but spent its first decade in Georgia, with a last recorded mileage of 133k in late 2014. Southern, therefore RWD, therefore clean body.

I'm surprised to have everyone speak so highly of the G. A knowledgeable friend of mine was looking at these some years back and got disgusted and discouraged at what he found. Rattletraps, he said, and eventually bought a new Chevy Volt. I should recalibrate and try one out myself. A G35, not a Volt

The 2011 Impreza, meanwhile, is a one-owner car. I'm still leaning that way, if the price isn't exorbitant. You said

>> What is the history on the Subie? When was T-belt done? When were head gaskets last done? This is a vehicle where a good 50% of the value will be based on repair history.

I reckon the carfax will tell that story. I'm thinking this is a car that can be driven a long time, but there will be costs. Knowing the history will help set the price but meanwhile, what do these go for? It's not like the auction result have all that information, either. I'm going to go out on a limb and say low $3s in good condition -- "2011 Subaru Impreza hatch automatic 2.5 120k blue."

If it were me and I needed transportation while I concentrate on a new job, I'd go for the white 2012 Toyota Avalon Limited with 132k for $6,900 and try to get a few hundred dollars off. One owner since it came off lease in 2013. Probably not going to happen.

Thanks again, and I'll post the end of the story, if and when -mathias

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