Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

ab348 · June 2020

Funnily enough, on Monday I saw two new-design Explorer ST models within minutes (both painted black with black wheels) and it made me wonder if the market for performance SUVs is bigger than I thought it was.

roadburner · June 2020

The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.

oldfarmer50 · June 2020

I was at the bank yesterday and in the line next to me was an older Impala (I’m guessing 2006-12 vintage) andI noticed the front brakes had slotted and drilled rotors.

Now what would a mundane car like an Impala have brakes like that? I thought ex cop car but this one was a medium tan color.

tjc78 · June 2020

oldfarmer50 said:
I was at the bank yesterday and in the line next to me was an older Impala (I’m guessing 2006-12 vintage) andI noticed the front brakes had slotted and drilled rotors.

Now what would a mundane car like an Impala have brakes like that? I thought ex cop car but this one was a medium tan color.

Probably kept warping the stock units so some mechanic suggested the slotted rotors.

... or it’s a killer sleeper. I don’t think the V8 SS was available in tan.

andres3 · June 2020

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.

The URUS is for you, saw a video where it out-pulled an RS6 wagon from a standing start. Better start checking your couch cushions for spare change though.

qbrozen · June 2020

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.

I've eased up on my requirements some. It just seems damned near impossible to put my foot in it with any regularity, and pretty much never full steam. Too many others on the road, no commute, etc. Not that I want something slow, but, really, 6.5 seems enough 99.9% of the time. I find myself pondering even non-Turbo Cayennes. Heaven forbid!

28firefighter · June 2020

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.
I've eased up on my requirements some. It just seems damned near impossible to put my foot in it with any regularity, and pretty much never full steam. Too many others on the road, no commute, etc. Not that I want something slow, but, really, 6.5 seems enough 99.9% of the time. I find myself pondering even non-Turbo Cayennes. Heaven forbid!

6-spd Cayenne GTS?!

roadburner · June 2020

andres3 said:

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.
The URUS is for you, saw a video where it out-pulled an RS6 wagon from a standing start. Better start checking your couch cushions for spare change though.

My dealer took one in as a trade- $245K.

roadburner · June 2020

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.
I've eased up on my requirements some. It just seems damned near impossible to put my foot in it with any regularity, and pretty much never full steam. Too many others on the road, no commute, etc. Not that I want something slow, but, really, 6.5 seems enough 99.9% of the time. I find myself pondering even non-Turbo Cayennes. Heaven forbid!

I just love to surprise the guys who think their car/truck is fast. Especially if I can do it with with a relatively innocuous "furrin" car.

explorerx4 · June 2020

Ford has quite a bit of success with the previous Explorer Sport(since 2013), Titanium and now the ST.

andres3 · June 2020

explorerx4 said:
Ford has quite a bit of success with the previous Explorer Sport(since 2013), Titanium and now the ST.

Anyone else hear of Auto companies extending warranties due to COVID-19? I just got word that Audi of America extended any warranty (new or CPO) ending in March, April, or May of this year, 3 additional months. My TTS warranty is then good until about August 1st this year, giving it 4.25 years total.

From my perspective, this is an excellent gesture and goodwill move; I think Amazon needs to do the same with Prime memberships.

andres3 · June 2020

For those that believe in DV on insurance claims, I hope my formula for calculating DV using the logic in my letter to USAA today becomes the industry standard moving forward (with Vroom being substitute-able by Carmax, Shift, Carvana, or any other well known used car buying service to establish post collison fair market value):

Who wants to play judge, or so far in this claim, just USAA DV Appraiser yet to put out a number (here's my letter):

Regarding the claim referenced above I received a call from USAA on Monday, June 1st and was told that Progressive and USAA had settled this claim with 90% liability for USAA. While I think the video from the front-facing dash cam footage in my vehicle fully and completely supports my contention that your insured was 100% at-fault for the collision 12/13/19, in the interest of expediting the claim I believe I am willing to move forward at 90% for the sole purpose of the correct amount due and payable on this claim from USAA.

Diminished Value - Due to your insured’s negligence, I had an asset (Certified Pre-Owned 2015 Audi A4 Premium Plus model loaded with the S-Line sport package, navigation, automatic transmission, Bang & Olufsen upgraded sound system, 18” wheels, relatively new/just recently replaced brake pads, brake rotors, and tires) with approximately 20,000-22,000 miles at the time and date of the collision, and is still under CPO warranty having been purchased from Audi Fletcher Jones on July 13th, 2019, exactly 5 months before this collision. Due to the excellent vehicle condition and clean accident-free history of the vehicle, it was worth at least the well-negotiated purchase price of $24,090.19 (including taxes & fees) less exactly 5 months of depreciation on a 4-year old car at the time. I cannot see depreciation being calculated at higher than $200/mo. on a 4-year old vehicle at this price range under any circumstance, so that would be $1,000 of depreciation reducing the actual cash value at the time and date of the collision, by my calculations, that brings the total to $23,090.19.

• ACV = Purchase Price 7/13/19 at $24,090.19
• ACV on 12/13/19 proposed at 23,090.19
• Offer on 6/3/20 from VROOM (vroom.com) which I logged at 22,000 miles so that time is the only changed variable besides accident history (22,000 miles was the approximate mileage at time of collision), and the offer is $11,000 (copy enclosed after accident history). Offer would be significantly lower if I had given Vroom the current mileage, which just surpassed 27,500 on June 3rd.
• Additional depreciation since date of loss to June 3rd, 2020, the current date, would be another 5-1/2 months. Using the same depreciation value as before, that would be an additional $1,100.
• Due to COVID-19, I will grant or concede another $1,000 loss on value unrelated to this DV claim.
• Therefore, the loss from Diminution in Value due to your insured’s negligence on 12/13/19 totals to:
o $23,090.10 starting ACV on date of loss.
o Less $1,100 for further depreciation since date of loss until date of offer post-collision.
o Less $1,000 due to drop in values in the market related to Covid-19.
o Therefore, ACV for the purposes of this DV evaluation equals $20,990.10.
o Actual cash value after collision record is $11,000 based on VROOM quote enclosed dated 6/3/20.
• The difference in the above figure for ACV for the purposes of determining a fair Diminution in Value, and the offer from Vroom (fair market value after collision) is the proper and actual loss amount, which calculates to $9,990.10.
Previously provided qualified verified expenses with receipts totaled to $1,615.50 for the car seat, deductible, and car rental expenses related to this claim.
That would bring the total claim up to $11,605.60 including the reimbursable expenses already incurred. Settling at 90% would bring the amount immediately due and payable to Mr. I Believe in DV at $10,445.04.
I look forward to hearing back from USAA claims department promptly in response to this letter and all of the enclosed supporting documentation.

abacomike · June 2020

I've been driving my E450 4MATIC now for one month (410 miles on the odometer) and wanted to share my assessment of the automobile, especially in the torrential rains we had this afternoon (4 inches in 2 hours).

There is no question that the 4MATIC changes the way the car handles and maneuvers in both dry and heavy rain conditions in comparison to the many E Class vehicles I have owned and driven. It is especially noticeable on curves and turns - the car pushes through the curves and turns with little, if any, body roll and holds its tracking even in heavy rains with surface flooding.

As for acceleration from a dead stop, the car is extremely aggressive and highly stable. Acceleration while merging onto the interstate or turnpike is crisp and athletic-like while holding a straight track with no drag to either side.

The ride is very taut and nimble - nothing like previous E Class sedans I have owned and definitely more rigid than the S450 was. The slightest input to the steering wheel results in a response while keeping the car in a straight line is effortless.

The audio system is acoustically pleasant, rich and crisp with that new body-attached base quality I did not experience in the S Class. The technology is almost overwhelming and is even more refined due to the expanded optional features available.

I was really impressed with the manner in which the car handled in the thunderstorms this afternoon. Even on flooded streets, it plowed right through with no loss of control.

I think I am going to really enjoy driving this car! 🤓

snakeweasel · June 2020

andres3 said:
For those that believe in DV on insurance claims, I hope my formula for calculating DV using the logic in my letter to USAA today becomes the industry standard moving forward (with Vroom being substitute-able by Carmax, Shift, Carvana, or any other well known used car buying service to establish post collison fair market value):

Who wants to play judge, or so far in this claim, just USAA DV Appraiser yet to put out a number (here's my letter):

Personally I would never be in direct contact with the other guys insurance company, let your insurance company or a lawyer do your talking. They will avoid the traps you will never see.

fintail · June 2020

What mode do you usually drive in?

More than a year into my E450 now, and it is still nothing but a pleasure. My biggest gripe is probably the wiper judder, and for a car this complex, that's a small gripe.

abacomike said:
I've been driving my E450 4MATIC now for one month (410 miles on the odometer) and wanted to share my assessment of the automobile, especially in the torrential rains we had this afternoon (4 inches in 2 hours).

I think I am going to really enjoy driving this car! 🤓

abacomike · June 2020

fintail said:
What mode do you usually drive in?

More than a year into my E450 now, and it is still nothing but a pleasure. My biggest gripe is probably the wiper judder, and for a car this complex, that's a small gripe.

abacomike said:
I've been driving my E450 4MATIC now for one month (410 miles on the odometer) and wanted to share my assessment of the automobile, especially in the torrential rains we had this afternoon (4 inches in 2 hours).

I think I am going to really enjoy driving this car! 🤓

If driving locally (shopping or doing errands), I keep it in "Comfort" mode. On the highway, I engage "Economy" mode. As I enter the turnpike or the interstate, I engage "Sport" mode for added power and agility (holds lower gears longer and stiffens handling).

I still have that wiper chattering so they are going to put "Rainex" wipers on later this week.

driver100 · June 2020

abacomike
I've been driving my E450 4MATIC now for one month (410 miles on the odometer) and wanted to share my assessment of the automobile

Nice to have an update....glad it is so positive. I have never been in an S, but, I don't think I would like driving one. I think a car can be too big to enjoy driving it. Sure, you need room and comfort in certain situations, but a car loses it's fun factor when it gets too large. I like the comfort and handling of my E400, but, wouldn't want it to be any larger, and in some ways I like the snapiness of the C Class...which is more maneuverable in some ways.

Just one persons opinion.

qbrozen · June 2020

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.
I've eased up on my requirements some. It just seems damned near impossible to put my foot in it with any regularity, and pretty much never full steam. Too many others on the road, no commute, etc. Not that I want something slow, but, really, 6.5 seems enough 99.9% of the time. I find myself pondering even non-Turbo Cayennes. Heaven forbid!
I just love to surprise the guys who think their car/truck is fast. Especially if I can do it with with a relatively innocuous "furrin" car.

But how many factory 4.5-sec cars are “innocuous”?

fintail · June 2020

I should probably try the sport modes now and then. In this area, everyone drives so slow that even "economy" is more than adequate, and I do enjoy that lazy 2nd gear start and the loafing early upshift cruising - so much torque, it just glides along.

If you can, get a pic of the new blades and how they link up to the wiper arms. I am curious about solutions to this - I think you get more rain in terms of volume, but we probably get more in duration, and fussy wipers drive me nuts.

abacomike said:

If driving locally (shopping or doing errands), I keep it in "Comfort" mode. On the highway, I engage "Economy" mode. As I enter the turnpike or the interstate, I engage "Sport" mode for added power and agility (holds lower gears longer and stiffens handling).

I still have that wiper chattering so they are going to put "Rainex" wipers on later this week.

roadburner · June 2020

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:
The ST isn't that quick; for me to even consider a performance SUV it needs to hit 60 in under 4.5 seconds. At least the Explorer ST is based on a RWD platform.
I've eased up on my requirements some. It just seems damned near impossible to put my foot in it with any regularity, and pretty much never full steam. Too many others on the road, no commute, etc. Not that I want something slow, but, really, 6.5 seems enough 99.9% of the time. I find myself pondering even non-Turbo Cayennes. Heaven forbid!
I just love to surprise the guys who think their car/truck is fast. Especially if I can do it with with a relatively innocuous "furrin" car.
But how many factory 4.5-sec cars are “innocuous”?

I think my 2 Series is very low key.

graphicguy · June 2020

I remember test driving the Explorer ST when I had time off around the Holidays last year (right before I bought the Stinger, as a matter of fact). Not sure why, but I didn’t have anything else better to do.

IIRC, it was quick for a heavy SUV. For the way it handled, I thought it rode well. Not “cushy” like you’d get in a regular SUV. But, it wasn’t jarring like the sport suspensions in other big vehicles. Kind of a nice compromise.

The thing was LOADED (actually, not any more loaded than what most of us drive in this thread). It had the high zoot stereo. Don’t remember it being bad, but don’t remember being amazed by it, either). All the safety tech and some parking assists (self park).

It was quick, but obviously not nearly as fast as many sports sedans. Which was a bit of a surprise, again because of its weight.

Liked it, as an SUV. But, I think it was knocking at the door of $60K, which I thought was way overpriced. At the time, end of year, cold and dreary outside, I probably could have done a good deal on one, though.

Then, I went to the Cincinnati Auto Show, and saw SUVs priced at $65K, $70K, $80K and was wondering if the Explorer was a good deal.

Never is a very long time, but I don’t think I can ever see me spending $60K or above for an SUV unless it was a Porsche.

roadburner · June 2020

I took the M235i in for an oil change. The key read showed it also needed plugs and an interior microfilter. My SA said that he would make sure that the car was thoroughly inspected since the CPO warranty runs out in four days.
I have a 330i xDrive M Sport as a loaner. It’s a pretty nice car. If it was RWD and had H-K, Park Distance Control, and the Track Handling Package. it would be a great commuter car. It averaged over 40 mpg at 80 mph, which at least partially compensates for the middling 5.1 second 0-60 time- although I’ll admit it feels faster than it is.

driver100 · June 2020

GG, There are some interesting reviews about the Explorer ST, that are similar to yours. This one is Canadian but was written with some fun points in mind;
https://driving.ca/ford/explorer/reviews/road-test/5-things-i-learned-driving-the-2020-ford-explorer-st
He starts the article by saying he is really confused. And this is what confuses him;

Is Ford trying to start an all-new market niche?
I get super-sport SUVs. To be sure, the concept of a high-performance-but-high-centre-of-gravity SUV is a bit like military intelligence, all oxymoronic butting of heads. But people want SUVs, and they don’t want to give up performance. Hence the BMW X5 M, Mercedes-AMG GLE 63, Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk, and of course, supercharged Range Rovers.

But are big-tired, stiffly sprung SUVs really a thing? Won’t the wannabe-goalies in the third row get a little queasy if you launch the Explorer ST’s 400 horsepower into the big game? Do you really need the larger-diameter sway bars when you’re taking Marjorie and Bill — and maybe Grechen and Sven — to the opera? Like I said, I get big power and big sport-brutes, but adding seven seats into the mix throws me for a bit of a loop. Truly, are there people coming into Ford dealerships saying: I want big power and racetrack handling, but I need three rows of seats?
If you read the article he had minor irritations with a radio dial that hardly turned, and a wonky front door lock that wouldn't open for a few days.......thank goodness I haven't had those kind of glitches on a new car for decades, if ever.....I can't remember one.....and that would drive me crazy.

ab348 · June 2020

The launch of the new Explorer by Ford was a virtual case study in how auto launches can go wrong, so it is not surprising that the reviewer had some glitches. Remember, some early builds were so bad that Ford had to divert them to another location to fix the problems before releasing them to dealers. Presumably those glitches have all been dealt with now. At least one would hope so.

graphicguy · June 2020

Thanks for the article @driver100 . Agree with most of it. It’s a big stiff. Handles better than it should given the weight, but I wouldn’t say it handles well.

In my limited experience with Ford’s Synch, the sales person was trying to show me how good the voice recognition was. It actually wasn’t very good, at all.

But, if Mom wants a grocery getter and a kid hauler, while Dad still thinks he needs to at least be competitive at the stop light wars, the ST would probably fit the bill.

Then again, how many families will drop $60K large on a vehicle when Janey’s braces are going on, and Johnny’s college fund is looking depleted?

andres3 · June 2020

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:
For those that believe in DV on insurance claims, I hope my formula for calculating DV using the logic in my letter to USAA today becomes the industry standard moving forward (with Vroom being substitute-able by Carmax, Shift, Carvana, or any other well known used car buying service to establish post collison fair market value):

Who wants to play judge, or so far in this claim, just USAA DV Appraiser yet to put out a number (here's my letter):

Personally I would never be in direct contact with the other guys insurance company, let your insurance company or a lawyer do your talking. They will avoid the traps you will never see.

There's truth to that, though without an offer and my signature on it accepting it, it doesn't really matter what I say or write, my Insurance company is the only authorized decision maker for USAA apparently on this claim.

The difficulty comes in that my insurance company doesn't care about my car rental costs because I didn't have car rental insurance purchased (not all companies are this lame). They also don't care about my DV directly. They apparently don't care about the car seat replacement cost either. All they said they were taking "charge" of is the deductible recovery (in addition to their own expenses).

I talked to the Subrogation department this morning, they said they never got an offer for 90% yet, and they were still going after 100% by filing a inter-company dispute (similar to arbitration I guess). They said USAA has not been cooperative in negotiations, and is forcing their hand.

They said even though I said I'd agree to 90% in my letter they don't have to, they are going for the full 100%, as I originally stated they should. Don't know if the USAA rep was confused or trying to pull a fast one. I vote the former then the latter. Or maybe they did change their mind and upped to 90% since a Dept. of Insurance complaint probably landed in their lap by now.

I do have some former experience in DV claims, so I know some of the traps already. Progressive told me I was free to cash the $700 check and am not waiving any rights by doing so (no release signature required). Since they are my insurance company, I suppose I should believe it.

fintail · June 2020

My E450 is a 4.6 car per C&D, a white MB station wagon with a traditional grille and hood ornament. Pretty under the radar.

qbrozen said:

But how many factory 4.5-sec cars are “innocuous”?

oldfarmer50 · June 2020

roadburner said:
I took the M235i in for an oil change. The key read showed it also needed plugs and an interior microfilter. My SA said that he would make sure that the car was thoroughly inspected since the CPO warranty runs out in four days.
I have a 330i xDrive M Sport as a loaner. It’s a pretty nice car. If it was RWD and had H-K, Park Distance Control, and the Track Handling Package. it would be a great commuter car. It averaged over 40 mpg at 80 mph, which at least partially compensates for the middling 5.1 second 0-60 time- although I’ll admit it feels faster than it is.

Only 5.1 0-60? How can you drive it in public without hanging your head in shame?😄😢

My convertible does it in 9.7 seconds if that makes you feel better.

driver100 · June 2020

My E400 4matic misses by a fraction, 4.8 seconds 0 to 60, with the sports grill.
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/performance/2017/2453300/mercedes-benz_e_400_4matic.html

driver100 · June 2020

Fortunately RBs M235i makes the cut by the skin of its paint job....0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds!

andres3 · June 2020

driver100 said:
Fortunately RBs M235i makes the cut by the skin of its paint job....0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds!

Every tenth counts.

I would like to bring back the moniker "Unsafe at Any Speed."

qbrozen · June 2020

I personally don't consider anything with a BMW or Benz badge to be "under the radar." I mean, in my experience, the general public EXPECTS expensive German cars to be fast, even when they aren't.

roadburner · June 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

Only 5.1 0-60? How can you drive it in public without hanging your head in shame?😄😢

My convertible does it in 9.7 seconds if that makes you feel better.

My Clubman is just as slow, and my Club Sport runs it in the high 7 second range.
However, your drop top and my two sleds aren’t brand new sport sedans that cost north of $50K.

driver100 · June 2020

Is there any new car that costs under $50k, that can do 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds? Under 5 seconds?
KIA Stinger is 5.1 and is listed as $53000.

stickguy · June 2020

Mustang GT base, or a camaro?

explorerx4 · June 2020

I'm pretty sure the HP 4 banger Mustang can do it.
About 12 and 1/2 minutes in, he quotes the factory 4.5 0-60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad74QugzYDA&t=718s

dino001 · June 2020

Civic-R?, Forcus RS, STI?

benjaminh · June 2020

driver100 said:
Is there any new car that costs under $50k, that can do 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds? Under 5 seconds?
KIA Stinger is 5.1 and is listed as $53000.

driver100 · June 2020

Interesting, and good finds. The reviews for the Mustang sound impressive.....our own Edmunds reviewer liked it a lot too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIlkz9369sM

andres3 · June 2020

Fully stripped out bare bones Audi S4 and TTS models barely exceed $50K, the S3 is under it I believe.

roadburner · June 2020

The RWD M240i starts at $45,800.

qbrozen · June 2020

benjaminh said:

driver100 said:
Is there any new car that costs under $50k, that can do 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds? Under 5 seconds?
KIA Stinger is 5.1 and is listed as $53000.

Is that the BS price that includes all rebates and fuel savings?

jwm40517 · June 2020

Recently saw a picture of a dump truck that said "If I pass you on the right, you're in the wrong lane " on the mudflap.

benjaminh · June 2020

qbrozen said:

Is that the BS price that includes all rebates and fuel savings?

That's the real msrp, but it doesn't include the 1200 destination charge.

roadburner · June 2020

driver100 said:
Interesting, and good finds. The reviews for the Mustang sound impressive.....our own Edmunds reviewer liked it a lot too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIlkz9369sM

A four cylinder Mustang is right up there with automatic Miatas as vehicular crimes against nature.

tjc78 · June 2020

IDK .. 310 HP and 350 lb of torque. That’s more than many V8 Mustangs produced over the years.

stickguy · June 2020

I am with TJC. More concerned with results, not some arbitrary rule. the 4 is fast, slightly more economical (theoretically) and seems to be more balanced handling carrying less weight over the front end.

also why if I ever got a vintage Shelby Mustang (or special Ford) it would be a GT350 or boss 302, instead of a GT500 or boss 429.

roadburner · June 2020

From the October 2017 issue of CAR:

"You buy a Mustang for that 5.0-litre V8. Don't even consider the weedy four-cylinder 2.3. That's like buying a Fender Stratocaster without any strings- all style and no sound. Rev it and dream of Days of Thunder at Daytona."

ab348 · June 2020

The problem is that once you get that 2.3 high performance package and the handling suspension package, it costs as much as a GT if not more.

stickguy · June 2020

sounds like posing to me!

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